Sspeed said:
I know if I ever go Turbo and back to the NSX I will be brining it to you all. I only want 500HP though.
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- Thread starter MiamieNeSeX
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I know if I ever go Turbo and back to the NSX I will be brining it to you all. I only want 500HP though.
People may say OMG look at how much lag you have... but lets face it... 3rd gear has got to feel enzo'ish if you can even get traction, and 4th gear is going to decimate pretty much anything on the highway...
All i want is video of a 4th gear pull to make me all giddy inside!
All i want is video of a 4th gear pull to make me all giddy inside!
zahntech said:Why do you bash his set up, then say you want to hear more about it?
While his set-up is not my bag of tea, doesn't mean that it won't be good for him, or fun to follow the build on.
Zahntech, reading comprehesion first then ask questions second. And third what part of my post is BASHING, but to answer that please refer back to one, and what do we learn. Read for comprehesion buddy, its great!
Now to respond to the general public. Water Meth set-ups are becoming very popular now it seems. There advantages to absorb heat therefor controlling detonation and knock are phonominal. I have personally only done two, one for my own car and one for a buddy's supercharged viper. In both cases the advantage to avoid knock and retarding timing was impressive. But this is a subject all its own and probly should have its own thread and not high jack this one, but do a google search before just asking questions. The info is out there if your willing to do some reading.
J. R.
Flexer said:
Sounds like a negative comment to me.
Flexer said:My S2000 makes full boost by 3400 rpm and I get to go all the way to 9100. That is 5,700 of fun area and I will take that ALL DAY LONG instead of having a dyno queen. AREA UNDER THE CURVE = Drivable street car. And 402@11 psi is fine by me.
But then again no boost = 255 whp??? I think not!!! Something is fishy here.
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So calling his car a "Dyno Queen" is supposed to be a positive thing?
I think I "comprehend" your post just fine thanks.
Flexer said:Nice numbers, but that is what you get with a BIG ASS TURBO. Which it appears you have. Looks like you don't see full boost till 5,200-5,500. That only leaves 3 grand of fun to be had. It works for some people and not for others. My S2000 makes full boost by 3400 rpm and I get to go all the way to 9100. That is 5,700 of fun area and I will take that ALL DAY LONG instead of having a dyno queen. AREA UNDER THE CURVE = Drivable street car. And 402@11 psi is fine by me.
But then again no boost = 255 whp??? I think not!!! Something is fishy here.
Can't wait to hear more about your set-up. VERY IMPRESSIVE! VERY EXCITING!!!!
J. R.
Well according to what turbo he has the PT70 and the exhaust side .68, you are right that full boost doesn't kick in til 5,200-5,500. It should spool up alot sooner. I have a 88 chrysler conquest that is a 2.6L 4cyl. My old setup used to have a off the shelf T70 with a .84 hot side and full boost kicked in about 3800. Now just recently had a GT45 turbo with a 1.05 hot side and a custom made exhaust header and a 296 exhaust and 292 intake cam and stock head and full boost kicked in around 4200rpm and thats with minor tuning.
As for your S2000, what turbo are you running? I'm sure the exhaust side is very small and got the timing retarded alot to get the turbo to boost up quicker which should have been done on this NSX. I'm very amazed with the NSX for 714rwhp on pump gas. What Octane pump gas is that. I know people say 110octane is pump which is BS anything higher than 94 isn't consider pump to me. I like to know what octane unless I missed in the post. If the other user on here said the heads on the NSX will outflow the supra then these cars should not have any problems getting at least 1000hp
cash84 said:
The car is running 93 octane. And I told armando that we need to drop the
boost to about 10 pounds, that should be more in line with the fuel he is running. As for the turbo lag, it does have a .68 housing, but if you read
my earlier comment it has a GTQ:biggrin: wheel. That usually hinders
the spool a little bitt. But as I said we have only done 2 passes on the dyno
and I havent really had time to tweak it. As for the honda head from the flow
numbers I have seen they flow 300+ CFM right out of the box.
For a guy who's never posted before today, you sure do seem to know what you're doing!
BIG WELCOME TO PRIME FROM ME!
BIG WELCOME TO PRIME FROM ME!
Sspeed said:The car is running 93 octane. And I told armando that we need to drop the
boost to about 10 pounds, that should be more in line with the fuel he is running. As for the turbo lag, it does have a .68 housing, but if you read
my earlier comment it has a GTQ:biggrin: wheel. That usually hinders
the spool a little bitt. But as I said we have only done 2 passes on the dyno
and I havent really had time to tweak it. As for the honda head from the flow
numbers I have seen they flow 300+ CFM right out of the box.
Gezz thats awesome to see it runs on 93. I'm not too familar with the GTQ wheel I see its something about wheel being cut down abit. I could be wrong. Can you do a lil explaining on this. Very impressive on the heads. Any ported work on it? Y not just get the next step up on injectors and pump? O wait, forgot, he has no more bling lol:biggrin:
I just saw this tread and I dont know what to say, simply unreal. I think my CTSC is quick, I could only dream of what 700+ hp in an NSX must feel like. Any chance I might get a cruise at NSXPO?:biggrin:
NetViper said:
Calling it BS would be an injustice as the overall achievement should be applauded. However I doubt that the full story has been told. The explanations are fuzzy at best. Comparing NSX heads to Supra heads can explain differences in boost levels (ie 28 psi vs. 15 psi.) needed to achieve comparable power figures, but we are now talking apples to apples- NSX to NSX heads, especially modded, ported, oversize valved heads. 255 ft-lbs @ 1900 rpm and 285 ft-lbs at 2800 rpm (where zero to very little boost exists) is simply not achievable without NOS or some other form of supplementation. Even FX needed NOS to gap the lag of their big/ twin turbo, no matter how efficient. Your idea of a smaller turbo, ala RX7, is not happening here as there is no boost registered below 2800. If someone with a 450 hp turbo STI tells you he got 41 mgp over a 71 mile route that happens to include a 5500 ft mountain route climb, would you believe him, or would you be skeptical as well?
Armando's curve looks like many other curves, simply shifted to the left by 2000 rpm... Looking at it as a LEFT shift is the same as bumping it up through the rpm band with NOS or using a higher conversion factor.
Regards,
Danny
lowellhigh79 said:
Here is a dyno of our twin turbo all boost 757rwhp run about 2 years ago. This if I recall correctly about 17psi. Jon K (fastraxturbo), can probably comment on it as he was there helping us. Nitrous was not needed at all to make up for any lag on that set-up. On our smaller twin turbo set-up we made a bit over 650rwhp, then we added a 75shot on top of it for our ¼ mile habit. This equated to 813rwhp.
Frank and Armando please do not take this as trying to steal your thunder, although we are scatching our heads on the off boost power (300ftlbs/85hp@2k) we are just trying to clear up a misguided notion and validate your tremendous accomplishment. Congrats and its good to have more company at the top of the food chain:biggrin:
I'm dying to see pics.
Factor X Motorsports said:
650 + 175 = 825 ~813?
lowellhigh79 said:
Hey Danny,
Look I am not here to tell you that we reinvented the wheel or anything,
but there are a few things that you might want to consider, first I have
found that retarding the timing on a relatively small displacment engine,
though may build more exausht heat doesn't help spool the turbo very well
at least not with a big shaft wheel on the turbo. But look at this in a different
way, the acura has a small cam and a big cam, so we have the best of both worlds, on the low end where we usally dont have alot of torque (one of the reasons to have a small cam) we use methonol ,which in turn allows us to run considerable more lead timing, which will help build more power, then you have a good cumbution chamber, and a good flat top piston (that has been massaged for excellet flame travel) and you might be surprised what you can get. Also remeber that the rpm curve on the dyno should be moved about 400 rpm, because we are calculating rpm by tire speed. And as for the the boost, after looking at the datalog, the car makes about 2 pounds of boost at 3000 rpm, I can only attribute that to the fact the boost sensor for the dyno is 25 feet from the car, overall after it is pressured the dyno sensor reads very well. As for the correction factor on the dyno, we use the dyno dynamics factor + 5 % which brings you a dynojet number. Dyno dynamics with no corrctions is the same as a Mustang dyno. (about 5% Less than a dynojet, but there numbers seem to be the industry standard.:smile:
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Factor X Motorsports said:
I was there and know that no Nitrous was used, because I was sitting in the corner with the bottle inhaling it.:biggrin:
Is someone feeding Lowellhigh words? as I can usually smell people who dont really know what they are talking about.
I got to watch this beast in action tonight. I was behind Armando, here at NSXPO, on our way to go-carting and I watch him fish-tail his rear going 60MPH. This kind of power is amazing in an NSX. :biggrin:
Your kiding? You had a conquest.....I have a 1988 Conquest TSI I am parting out right now. I had a 16G, then a super 16G then went to a 18G then 19c. I went from normal TBI all the way to a Magna set-up. Boy that was a fun car. What a torque moster that 4-banger was.
Anway, to answer you question, yes I run a small turbo on the S2000. It is a GT30/71R. Good for about 450 whp but it is amazing how fast it spools. Car is a hoot to drive. I owe Lovefab for that! Anyway, just thought I would say hi to another Conquest Starion owner.
J. R.
Anway, to answer you question, yes I run a small turbo on the S2000. It is a GT30/71R. Good for about 450 whp but it is amazing how fast it spools. Car is a hoot to drive. I owe Lovefab for that! Anyway, just thought I would say hi to another Conquest Starion owner.
J. R.
cash84 said:
Well Hell. I guess I will not post my Dyno...
It would be hit with the same type of scrutiny...
Maybe if you blew the motor up Armando.. Then you can get some love...:biggrin:
So do you have another transmission on standby?
Let me know how the runoff goes Between you and Ben B... He is down there with big HP...
It would be hit with the same type of scrutiny...
Maybe if you blew the motor up Armando.. Then you can get some love...:biggrin:
So do you have another transmission on standby?
Let me know how the runoff goes Between you and Ben B... He is down there with big HP...
FastraxTurbo said:
It only takes common sense, acute observation and some critical thinking, so no one is feeding me words and I do know what I'm talking about. A quick search will show that FX started out using NOS fairly early on to overcome lag. Most of their runs, except the 757 run (dyno provided) and the 605 run (in public) are the only two I can think of that did not involve NOS. Their current FX 500 uses NOS "to chase down those pesky Supras" and the 813 run did as well. I have nothing against using NOS or what FX has done (they should be congratulated), I'm only pointing out to the community, specific information that can help differentiate the relative performance value of the various platforms.
For example, lets use the Cartech system, which this community knows much about. What if all that the community knew about the Cartech was based on a few runs that utilized NOS, but the NOS was specifically denied. This plot would have awesome numbers down low, and some pretty damn good numbers up high, all on low amounts of boost. Is the community served well by this deliberate denial?
Fastrax Turbo, what do you make of the dyno plot for MiamieNeSeX?
117 whp/310 ft lbs @ 2080 (no boost)
178 whp/338 ft-lbs @ 2800 (0.5 psi)
255 whp/360 ft-lbs @ 3700 (2.2 psi)
357 whp/400 ft-lbs @ 4600 (3.0 psi)
Notice I'm only looking at the zero to very low boost levels as once on boost, anyone can hide a shot of NOS. Notice too that I questioned if some "additional oxygen supplementation" was utilized.
Notice also that the 757 FX run produced:
95 hp/199 ft-lbs @ 2500
225 hp/300 ft-lbs @ 4000
The hp curve rises similarly thereafter, but MY observation is there is more lag in the FX plot. MiamieNeSeX makes more torque at 2000 rpm on NO boost than the FX does after 4000 rpm on some boost? USE your critical thinking here. Further acute observation of the FX 757 will reveal that the plot states SAE correction method and Flywheel HP and Flywheel torque. Am I the only one who saw that? Did I miss the explanation for that?
This is not an attempt to discredit anyone nor is this under the direction of someone else. I simply desire intellectual honesty and consistency and some skepticism SHOULD always be utilized. Our 677 rwhp/466 ft-lbs @ 7600 run at K&N for the Sport Compact Car USCC was in public and I will be the first to admit that our numbers down low were not that great:
75 whp/160 ft-lbs @ 2500
150whp/175 ft-lbs @ 4000
No NOS, 100 unleaded, 15 psi below 7000, 17 psi above 7000
If you can honestly explain BIG V8 or even V10 like torque down low without boost from a 3.0 liter V6 with methanol, let us all know.
Best Regards,
Danny
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Sspeed said:
Does this car have the stock coil on plug units? In any case, just for your knowledge, the inductive loop on the wiring harness is the way to get a good rpm signal on these cars. If your on the drivers side of the car, look at the Tbody, then look furthur away and to the right. Before you get to the fuel injector area. On my Dynojet I have no issues getting a signal from there. And on my friends Dyno Dynamics AWD dyno with Eddie current, he has had no issues getting a signal on any of the NSX's he has done for me.
And btw, my turbo is a step up from that one. I guess we'll see what mine will do with some C16(or VP Import) and more boost.
I am not sure about your qualification or any experience you have with turbo cars, take the graph and compare to any graph ever posted, you will realized how shocking this is. - NSXSUPRA
Jason,
Fastrax Turbo (Jon Kuryama) is one of the most respected premier tuners in the USA and outside the USA. He is the Director of R & D of HKS USA and he is a genius when it comes to Turbos. Most performance shops in the USA and many outside will call him for consultation on Turbo applications or when it comes to tuning.
I am sure he will chime in tommorrow to answer yours and Danny's question. I figure at least I let you guys know who you are talking to.
http://hksusa.com/info/?id=250
For over a quarter century HKS products have been put to the test in drag racing, road racing, rallying, and top speed trials. HKS equipped vehicles have captured numerous racing championships and hold claim to a myriad of competition records using many “off the shelf”, race proven HKS components. As a result, HKS has been synonymous with “performance” in the automotive aftermarket industry for the past 29+years.
By establishing HKS USA, Inc. in 1982, HKS reaffirmed its commitment to deliver performance, customer service and quality products to consumers in North America. With the recent purchase of a new 35,000+ sq. ft. headquarters building for North American sales, marketing, warehouse, R&D, and manufacturing operations, HKS has solidified its leadership position and is poised for the future.
With our brand new, 100,000 sq. ft. ,state-of-the-art manufacturing and R&D facility at the foot of Mount Fuji, HKS is certain to stay in the lead of tomorrow ’s technology and manufacturing race. HKS has also established HKS Europe to expand our racing engine development and production program and continue our “race on Sunday, sell on Sunday” philosophy. Many of the competitors running in today ’s Formula 3 series are racing and winning with HKS prepared engines.
HKS has matured into a publicly traded company with an international sales and distribution network spanning Asia, Europe, Australia and the Americas to support its rapidly growing and ever-loyal worldwide customer base. The reason is simple: Whether it is engine, suspension, or drive-train systems, there is NO substitute for the performance, quality and reliability of HKS.
Jason,
Fastrax Turbo (Jon Kuryama) is one of the most respected premier tuners in the USA and outside the USA. He is the Director of R & D of HKS USA and he is a genius when it comes to Turbos. Most performance shops in the USA and many outside will call him for consultation on Turbo applications or when it comes to tuning.
I am sure he will chime in tommorrow to answer yours and Danny's question. I figure at least I let you guys know who you are talking to.
http://hksusa.com/info/?id=250
For over a quarter century HKS products have been put to the test in drag racing, road racing, rallying, and top speed trials. HKS equipped vehicles have captured numerous racing championships and hold claim to a myriad of competition records using many “off the shelf”, race proven HKS components. As a result, HKS has been synonymous with “performance” in the automotive aftermarket industry for the past 29+years.
By establishing HKS USA, Inc. in 1982, HKS reaffirmed its commitment to deliver performance, customer service and quality products to consumers in North America. With the recent purchase of a new 35,000+ sq. ft. headquarters building for North American sales, marketing, warehouse, R&D, and manufacturing operations, HKS has solidified its leadership position and is poised for the future.
With our brand new, 100,000 sq. ft. ,state-of-the-art manufacturing and R&D facility at the foot of Mount Fuji, HKS is certain to stay in the lead of tomorrow ’s technology and manufacturing race. HKS has also established HKS Europe to expand our racing engine development and production program and continue our “race on Sunday, sell on Sunday” philosophy. Many of the competitors running in today ’s Formula 3 series are racing and winning with HKS prepared engines.
HKS has matured into a publicly traded company with an international sales and distribution network spanning Asia, Europe, Australia and the Americas to support its rapidly growing and ever-loyal worldwide customer base. The reason is simple: Whether it is engine, suspension, or drive-train systems, there is NO substitute for the performance, quality and reliability of HKS.
Elite said:
Yes it does have stock plugs I did try the loop, but I had gotten erattic spikes. I guesswe can try to insulate it when we put it on the dyno again. As for the the car, I can assure you that there is no nitrous on the car, I did say
the the car has metanol injection, and Armando did say we use a homebrewed mixture. There are several things you can mix with metanol,
that work very well with unleaded gasoline, kinda hard on leaded. I am
just the builder and tunner. I can assure you that the car has no nos.
If Armando want to tell you what the mixture is, then thats on him.
No rat here!! Just alot of R&D. Just look at tht love fab kit, It is a great kit.
Cody does great work. He does make great power on the gt 35R
which by the way is a 56mm compressor wheel. That happens to be
about 25% smaller wheel than the 70 we run.
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