Why take a NSX over a SupraTT?

[darknezz_ghost]

well i owned both the supra tt six speed and nsx. the only reason why i bought the NSX was because i had a supra before and i wanted to go a different route. both cars are nice no matter how you look at it. the supra was a torque beast while the nsx has half of the supra's power. the cost of getting both car to get 500hp is quit different. i was able to get 450 hp at a cost of $2k while i know it's going to cost me more than $10k just to build the nsx motor to handle that much power.

i love the nsx but i will love to own another MKIV some time in the future.

 

[NSSEX91]

Who tries to prove a point by throwing down an unfair comparison chart with one cars tires that are so large, can be used at a drag strip?

Put 205's on the Supra and see what happens. Even the VR4 will spank it.

 

[MoogieBoogie]

Enough with this tire argument. I'm sure that Honda engineers/designers decided to put specific size tires on the NSX for a reason. Same goes for Toyota engineers. All this talk about putting some skinnier-than-factory tires on the Supra to fully compare it to the NSX is ridiculous. I suppose we could put the Supra on 4 spare tires and compare... Well, why dont we change all the aluminum panels on the NSX to steel to compare it to the Supra? Why don't we add two more seats.. yadda yadda.. these are ridiculous arguments.

And Toyota cheated by removing the cats from the test car? Haha.. where do you get this from? Seriously, you throw in unproven accusations that just kills your credibility.

I'm curious to see how many people who are criticizing the Supra have really had a chance to drive it.

 

[Ben]

I just bought a '98 Supra, and I'll post my impressions vs. NSX once I get more seat time in the Supra.

 

[NSSEX91]

Moogle,

Fine put 255's on the NSX The 91 NSX came before the 93 Supra. That is what they are comparing it to right? There is a reason for the smaller tires but that doesent mean it could have done much better with larger tires. The first things I noticed after putting larger tires on the NSX is the steering effort. I'm sure this was one reason.

After test driving my NSX with 245's, I don't it would be a race at all.

I know it's not good to compare an NSX with non factory tires but the bottom line is that with 600lb's of less weight to throw around, physics tell us that it will handle better everything else being equal.

Pluss, your grip is only one aspect of handling. That just tells you how sticky your tires are. The change in direction is just as important. With 600 lb's more weight to toss in the other direction, I'm sure the Supra is Subpar for anything but a very straight road course.

I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just saying that the NSX is more comparable to exotics and the Supra should be compared to cars in it's own class like VR4's and 300ZX's.

 

[ajnsx]

Not everyone, but a few people here have posted their opinions.

I get the same crap on other boards when they call the NSX a "hooked up Accord." I dont understand why car enthusiasts can't appreciate cars for what they were designed for.

-Brian.

True enthusiasts do, people who want to validate their personal choice by knocking others opinions are not.:smile:

 

[MoogieBoogie]

Moogle,

Fine put 255's on the NSX The 91 NSX came before the 93 Supra. That is what they are comparing it to right? There is a reason for the smaller tires but that doesent mean it could have done much better with larger tires. The first things I noticed after putting larger tires on the NSX is the steering effort. I'm sure this was one reason.

After test driving my NSX with 245's, I don't it would be a race at all.

I know it's not good to compare an NSX with non factory tires but the bottom line is that with 600lb's of less weight to throw around, physics tell us that it will handle better everything else being equal.

Pluss, your grip is only one aspect of handling. That just tells you how sticky your tires are. The change in direction is just as important. With 600 lb's more weight to toss in the other direction, I'm sure the Supra is Subpar for anything but a very straight road course.

I'm not saying it's bad. I'm just saying that the NSX is more comparable to exotics and the Supra should be compared to cars in it's own class like VR4's and 300ZX's.

I think the weight difference is closer to 400 lbs. I agree with you that the NSX has a better handling feel than the Supra, but I can't provide any numbers to show how much, if any, significant difference there is. I disagree with you that the Supra is not capable on anything but a very straight road course. The Supra can perform well on a road course - perhaps not as well as an NSX - so you shouldn't simply dismiss it as a car that is built for only the straight line. Put it this way - a Civic will probably outperform an NSX on a very tight auto-x course, simply because it weighs less. However, I don't think that this is indicative of its overall track performance.

I agree that the Supra is more comparable to your 300ZX/RX-7/VR-4, but more because of its price point than its performance. Just curious, but which "exotics" do you think the NSX is comparable to? I don't want to explode this thread with other comparisons, but a common one that I hear from the domestic guys are the C5 Z06 vs NSX discussions.

-Brian.

 

[Khiladi1020]

I think Jeremy Clarkson said it best many many years ago on video:

"The Supra may well be a super car... but its not a 'supercar'. Sure it goes like one, and from far away it even looks like one, but it just isn't special enough. The Honda NSX is special enough; but in my book, its too easy to drive to be a supercar...."

Bottom line--both are capable sports cars. The numbers and experiences don't lie. Supra is a very capable sports car; NSX has more of the "IT" factor though. For this very reason I loved and miss my MKIV Supra, but can't wait to acquire a new-to-me NSX!

 

[MiamiMermaid]

This a great thread! I actually took my driving test (First License) with my friend's Supra. It's a great car* BUT!!!..... this question "Why take an NSX over a Supra ?? " ...... To myself, is "If you can....... NSX Ownership is something very rare* and as proven over and over, beyond the durability, the performance, speed (if you have the skill to learn how to handle her curving abilities.... *yes, this trait is limited and must be respected ), and just plain amazing physique* of the NSX.... duh! Was there a question ????

Sorry, just a super feign, loyal, and blessed owner of the NSX*** :tongue:

 

[OneRedNSX]

I dunno..

if I could have both, I would have both.

if I could pick only one...

well, you all can read the signature.

 

[NSSEX91]

Moogie,

To answer your question, bottom line is the driving pleasure, feel and looks put it in a higher class as much as it's performance numbers do. Just look at what it beat in 91. Porsche? Ferrari 355?

I did not say that the Supra was bad in road courses. I was explaining how the tighter the course, the less advantageous the Supra is due to it's weight.

To give credit to your other statement, the NSX gets spanked by the Miata at our Local So Cal auto cross. I used to own a track Miata but after buying a stock NSX and getting back inside the Miata, I asked myself what was I thinking? So point taken. In fact, thats what I think whenever i step inside other cars after owning an NSX. I ask myself how can I drive anything else now? It's smooth, comfortable and is so low to the ground with a spacious wide angle view that you get used to it after a while. In fact, the first time I went to go buy one I wasn't sure until I stepped inside and took a trip with the seller. 10 seconds later (no joke) I took 28,000 in cash out of my pocket and said here you go. He refused to take it until he finished showing me the car. Thats how good it was. I felt like I was in an Exotic if not a very expensive vehicle and the difference between it and any other 30,000 dollar Z or Supra was night and day. It was as easy to drive as my sisters MX3. Long trips get me 28mpg and I felt classy and more adult like for owning a former $80,000 car. Maybe besides an RX7, the NSX may be the only one car I will ever drive until something better comes out that will give me the same experience and that might be the Tesla. One gear to 130mph, no maintenance except tire rotations and it's faster then a lamborghini. The point is the human mind and body get used to greatness and the former gets forgotten.

 

[nsxtcy85]

The NSX has the best fit and finish of all the jap cars......... it better have since it's more $$$.

It's the only one that had stitched interior dash and panels.

ITR

 

[Steve Theodore]

The Supra NEEDS wider tires due to it's considerable (450+ pound) weight above and beyond the NSX. You can put 265 front, 295 rear tires on a completely stock body Supra, which also help it considerably with stiffer spring rates to match. In the aftermarket, it's hard to achieve a level playing field between cars...and that is why we're going off actual magazine published test results between stock cars.

I'll be the first to admit that the test results would have been quite different if they compared an NA2 NSX versus the 93 Supra TT, but the comparison test was done in 1993 so that is what we get...an NA1 NSX versus the Supra TT.

In terms of the acceleration results obtained back in the day, my personal guess is that Toyota did do some "free boost mods" to the particular Supra that ran a 13.1 @ 109 mph, since that is absolutely way out of line with the normal test results. That is my personal opinion only though, and largely not shared by the Supra community. When the test average looks more like 13.5 @ 106 mph, I did find that one result to seem exceptionally strong.

Some of you will also note that the red Supra featured in those comparison tests back in the day was a hardtop TT model, which is stiffer and lighter than the targa TT equivalent. :biggrin:

It's hard to compare cars fairly since most of them don't use the same tires.

For example, I believe the Supra was the first jap car to debut with Max-performance rated tires, which is between competition tires like hoosiers, A032R, etc.. and Ultra-high performance tires that the rest of the cars came with.

Also the Supra had wider tires.

Toss the same tire type and size on a NSX and/or RX7 and it's game over for the Supra on anything related to handling and braking.

As a matter of fact, it might narrow the gap for acceleration numbers too.

Supra is a shoe with good shoes from the the get go.

There has been reports that Toyota cheated by giving the magazine editors a Supra with no cats.....

 

[Coz]

NSX over the Supra for class and style.
I view the NSX as a classier and refined older person's car....
The Supra I see as more of a younger generation racer....
That's just my opinion...
Both are fine machinery though and hold the interest of many....

 

[Steve Theodore]

I agree that the Supra (93-98 4th generation) has fallen from grace a bit in the years coming after the Fast and the Furious...but I also believe this is somewhat temporary. Even now the Supra market is recovering, and the cars are coming back to the real enthusiasts who can appreciate and care for them properly. Most of the younger guys who get their hands on them learn that they cannot afford to care for and maintain these cars, and end up selling them to others who can.

I suspect something similar has happened to the NSX, particularly if you were to discuss 2 hypothetical 1991 models. A 150k mile example that sold for $19k would probably find it's way into the hands of a younger enthusiast with more passion than money, whereas a 50k mile example for $35k would likely find it's way to a responsible and mature driver. Being a longtime Supra guy, I clearly hope that the "ricer/racer" image of these cars fades a bit over time, and people can instead see them for what they truly are...rare and incredibly engineered cars from the golden era of Japanese tuning. :smile:

 

[NSXGMS]

I agree that the Supra (93-98 4th generation) has fallen from grace a bit in the years coming after the Fast and the Furious...but I also believe this is somewhat temporary.

Supra resale prices had been declining slowly but steadily during the 90s. The Supra had been very well respected and regarded as more of a luxury sports car up until then (similar to the SC430.) Immediately after F & F MKIV Supra prices stabilized and then began to ever so slowly creep up. This trend continues today in spite of the fact that, as mentioned, the Supras "status" has been downgraded thanks to F & F. Resale prices would say otherwise but it's the kids with money to burn that fuel the Supra market.

I purchased a 1993 TT Supra, very clean, 70K miles for $21,000 in March 2001 from a dealer. That same car, same miles, today would fetch almost exactly the same price.

 

[Steve Theodore]

I bought my first Supra TT 6 speed in December 1999, and have purchased 4 more since then. The same car you mentioned would be worth more right now than in 2001. :wink:

You might be surprised how many people who actually have some money are buying lower and medium mileage Supras nowadays, particularly after trying out a few other cars (like myself) and realizing that they already had their ideal car. Hehe.

 

[nsxsupra]

I am not arguing with you. I just would like to add my personal experience. Please don't take it wrong.

Resale prices would say otherwise but it's the kids with money to burn that fuel the Supra market.

Partially true. Supra is a great platform. Many Ferrari, E55/SL55, Viper, NSX, 996GT2 owners also own Supras. It is usually the poser/non owners/dreamers that give Supraforum a bad name. As much as I love/dream Skyline GTR, it is cheaper, easier to obtain 600rwhp reliably with a Supra.

There are many Supra owners like "Steve Theodore". You be amazed how many times he defended and said nice things about NSX on Supraforums. Even Allanlambo frequent Supraforums. If you browse Supra forums you will see there are greater variety of car enthusiasts that browse that forum than prime.

Vance said it best. Good number of NSX owners "graduated from Civic~Prelude~S2000~16yearold exotic NSX" in sequence. It is going to be like greatest thing in the world for them with over blown ego.

The one thing I love about Supra the most is the owners. I used to be very active in the Supra meets. The more power they have the more humble and down to earth they are. Maybe I am just l lucky with people I meet.

I purchased a 1993 TT Supra, very clean, 70K miles for $21,000 in March 2001from a dealer. That same car, same miles, today would fetch almost exactly the same price.

If it was clean like you said, today it would had appreciate already. That car at $21,000, you will have people line up at front of your house forming a line around the block like the Iphone line to buy it. It worth closer to $26~$30k.

 

[NSXGMS]

I am not arguing with you. I just would like to add my personal experience. Please don't take it wrong.


Partially true. Supra is a great platform. Many Ferrari, E55/SL55, Viper, NSX, 996GT2 owners also own Supras. It is usually the poser/non owners/dreamers that give Supraforum a bad name. As much as I like Skyline GTR, it is cheaper, easier, to get Supra to 600rwhp reliably.

There are many Supra owners like "Steve Theodore". You be amazed how many times he defended and said nice things about NSX on Supraforums. Even Allanlambo frequent Supraforums. If you browse Supra forums you will see there are greater variety of car enthusiasts that browse that forum than prime.

Vance said it best. Good number of NSX owners "graduated from Civic~Prelude~S2000~16yearold exotic NSX" in sequence. It is going to be like greatest thing in the world for them with over blown ego.

The one thing I love about Supra the most is the owners. The more power they have the more humble and down to earth they are. Maybe I am just l lucky.


If it was clean like you said, today it would had appreciate already. That car at $21,000, you will have people line up at front of your house form a line around the block like the Iphone line to buy it. It worth closer to $26~$30k.

I agree. There are plenty of bad apples but there are plenty of "old school" Supra owners that are car enthusiasts and respect the NSX.

And yes, I was being conservative when I said my 1993 would fetch the same price as in 2001. You're probably more accurate saying people would line up at $25,000. For a standard production car the way the Supra holds/gains value is absolutely unheard of in the automotive world. A good friend bought a 97 TT w/ 30K miles for just over $30K in 1999. Good luck finding that deal now.

IMO the MKIV is the second greatest Japanese car ever made and, like the NSX, is one of the most unique cars ever made, period. As far as a platform it's mind-boggling and we may never see another production car with such amazing potential.

 

[Steve Theodore]

That is a nice thing to say, and I'm glad to see some open minded NSX enthusiasts around here, since I always speak up to defend NSXs on SupraForums when given the chance to do so. I personally feel that cars like the NSX, Supra, and RX7 are really amazing "cult" cars...and there will hopefully always be people around to appreciate them.

These cars are essentially our generations equivalent to the Detroit iron of the late 1960's in a way. They are the cars that many of us idolized in high school and college, and finally had the means to purchase and enjoy.

...

IMO the MKIV is the second greatest Japanese car ever made and, like the NSX, is one of the most unique cars ever made, period. As far as a platform it's mind-boggling and we may never see another production car with such amazing potential.

 

[RON98]

When I looked at a supra, I felt the interior was cheezy. Not even close to the quality of materials in the NSX.

Cheezy?! its 1/2 the price. So you wont be getting any leather :biggrin:

Supra interior is a cockpit. Its all facing the driver, the only control the passenger gets to see is the window up and down button.

cant believe this thread is back to life again.

BTW its good to know that so many people view the SUPRA as ON PAR with the NSX. After all you dont see us compairing a Ford Focus to a NSX :biggrin:

both cars rule. Supra handles on par with the nsx, great power. Personally i think it is beautiful. Was doing the single turbo conversion today and cant believe how excited and how much i was looking forward to driving it. High way domination is NOT over rated. I can always remember the times when im crusing in the nsx, someone pulls up and me thinking... if i only had the Supra ( dont get me wrong, the nsx is getting a turbo too). NSX looks sexy, while i was taking a brake from the conversion, I caught myself googling the nsx thinking, how luck i was to own such a car. RX7 is a money pit from hell. R34, R34, my 355 for a R34.

In the process of a single turbo complete build on the supra, when its done, i'll be giving rides and changing minds about the Supra one NSX owner at a time. Steve, your up first. :tongue: Catch you guys on the wednesday valencia meet.

 

[Steve Theodore]

I really think that NSX and Supra owners have a lot in common. We own some of the best engineered Japanese cars ever to be sold in the US, and both are what I would consider cult status type of cars...neither of which is likely to be built again by their respective manufacturers (a front engined NSX?...clearly they are joking! A gas/electric V6 powered Supra? Eek!).

I don't know about changing anyones mind about anything...just want to make sure that people have their facts straight. Highway and dyno domination certainly doesn't appeal to everyone, but the Supra has a lot more to offer than that if you take the time to set it up correctly. It will never offer the same level of driving involvement as the NSX on a road course, but the sheer levels of power, speed, and handling it can exploit when setup and driven correctly command respect by any automotive enthusiast.

I'll tell you right now that I'd be the last one to ever bash the NSX...and I'm really pleased to see that so many passionate owners are still out there for both cars. :biggrin:

 

[Steve Theodore]

PS. In case it wasn't obvious, I don't want to let this thread die! :wink:

 

[BATMANs]

I think both the MKIV and NSX have equal quality on average.

It's the fit and finish that seperates the NSX from the MKIV.

 

[RON98]

I think both the MKIV and NSX have equal quality on average.

It's the fit and finish that seperates the NSX from the MKIV.

Yes, fit and finish ARE DIFFERENT because the NSX is TWICE 2X the MONEY! NSX=$80,000 Supra=$40,000

if you buy a house thats $1,000,000 and it is compairable to one that is $500,000. The $500,000 house is a pretty good purchase

im not sure how we just completely ignore the 2X cost factor. Im sure for an additional $40,000, toyota could have hand wrapped the whole car interior and exterior with leather. :tongue:

Happy motoring.

DIe THreAD DIE!