What is Honda F1's problem?

[BladesNSX]

Re: Takumo from zero to hero

Well 2 years ago Sato drove for the BAR Honda team. So Honda thought he could do some good after Villeneuve went to another team. But Sato has a big/huge temper and it shows in his driving style. You could almost hear him scream last year while he was driving.

But I don't know much about his history but I know he's a good emotional driver and gets a huge paycheck. He is one of the highest paid F1 drivers driving today. Makes something like ten times more than Ant Davidson and its all thanks to the sponsors.

Sato has some balls....I miss his ballsy driving...Nothing wrong with a temper so long as you use it well.

 

[Juice]

Re: Takumo from zero to hero

What the hell was up with Button yesterday? Usually I'm irritated with RB's lack of team work, but JB really screwed up coming out of the pit without regard for traffic, let alone his own team mate. Other teams have to look at that and laugh their asses off.

I'm suprised. Massa is turning out to be the man. But you have to give a REAL nod to the rookie. The kid is killing the field and it was nice to see Alonso swollowing his pride up there in the shadowy 3rd spot. Overall, pretty exciting race.

Back on topic, Sato did what he was suposed to do. I still can't believe Team SA has better cars than Work Honda.

 

[areout]

Re: Takumo from zero to hero

They have better cars because they havent changed anything

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Freefall in Iceland (Sidebar)

Skydiver, how's the jumping up there? Reminds me of open door twin beech loads in No. Idaho with 3 feet of snow and 9 deg F on the ground. Seriously, PM me and tell me what the skydiving community is like up there. Oh, and let me know when you're ready for $15 Otter loads at Lodi.

(Now back to our regularly scheduled ranting)

 

[BladesNSX]

Ahem: Hamilton !!



That is all.

 

[Zanardi 50]

I don't get why so many folks here bash on Sato?

I sincerely hope it's got nothing to do with his country of origin....

His total domination in 2001 British F3 by winning 12 of 13 races is no fluke...

Here's some dibs on Sato.

Very very impressive resumé.....


http://www.motorsm.com/motorsport/auto/drivers/F1_driver_Sato.asp

http://www.motorsm.com/motorsport/auto/F3/F3_British.asp

A Micro-Bio on the man:

http://www.autocoursef1.com/driver_view~cid~1~did~848.htm

Despite the claims laid by those who preceded him into the top flight, Takuma Sato remains the most naturally talented - and spectacular - Japanese driver to reach Formula One. However his impetuosity has counted against him too many times and now his big chance to join the elite appears to have passed.

Uniquely, Sato's journey to the pinnacle of motorsport started on two wheels, but on pedal cycles rather than motorbikes. From what could have been a successful career as a bike racer, Sato deviated onto four wheels, scraping together enough money to buy a kart and, the following year, to enter Honda's Suzuka Racing School scholarship.

Incredibly, given his lack of experience, he won the prize of a fully paid drive in the 1998 All-Japan Formula Three Championship - but then took another strange decision in opting to pass up on the offer in order to pursue his dream of reaching Formula One via Europe.

Unlike fellow countryman Ukyo Katayama, who began his career in France because he thought Paris was in Britain, Sato arrived in the UK to contest a part season of Formula Vauxhall Junior in mid 1998. Running with the small Diamond Racing team, he made enough of an impression to graduate with the operation to the Formula Opel Euroseries.

In 1999, his first full year of car racing, he took sixth place in the hotly contested EFDA-run championship, before stepping up again to compete in the Class B at the last few rounds of the British F3 Championship. For good measure, he rounded out the year by winning the Macau Grand Prix support race for AF2000 cars with Meritus Racing.

Having proven his ability to handle an F3 car, Sato duly joined the crack Carlin Motorsport squad to contest the full 2000 British F3 Championship. Unfazed by the step up in standards, and by the level of competition, he won a total of five races and eventually claimed third overall in the championship.

By now, he had also been noticed by various grand prix teams and, in December 2000, got his first F1 tests with Jordan and British American Racing. The latter reacted first and signed him as a test driver for 2001, presenting Sato with an opportunity to renew his links with Honda.

Despite his new-found admirers, Sato remained in F3 for 2001, starting the season as clear favourite for the British title as he continued with Carlin. The favourite tag was not without foundation, as the Japanese driver dominated proceedings, and breaking the record for the number of wins in a season, with twelve of a possible 13 victories going his way, as well as first place in the Marlboro Masters at Zandvoort and the international race that supported the British Grand Prix. Sato ended his F3 career on a high when he won the Macau Grand Prix in November that year, taking victory in both the preliminary qualifying event and the main race.

He also impressed on his test outings for BAR, which took place mainly at Silverstone and Mugello and provided further evidence of the talent he possessed. He ended the year with a seat in the top flight, as Honda placed him alongside Giancarlo Fisichella at Jordan Grand Prix for 2002.

It proved to be a dramatic first year in the premier category, with a series of stellar performances often punctuated by accidents, including notable incidents at Monaco and the A1-Ring, the latter which left him in hospital after being harpooned by Nick Heidfeld's Sauber. However, with the pressure on to produce something tangible from the year, Sato delivered on home ground, scoring his first F1 points for fifth place in a sensational race at Suzuka.

With Jordan reverting to Ford power in 2003, BAR reclaimed Sato as its third driver, and he proved central to the development of the Honda-powered 005 and 006 race cars. At the final race of the year, however, he was back in the limelight, replacing the departed Jacques Villeneuve for his home race at Suzuka, and again scoring points, this time after a strong drive to sixth place.

With Honda taking a bigger role in the team, Sato was assured of a full race seat alongside Jenson Button for 2004, and enjoyed perhaps BAR's most competitive season to date. While the more experienced Button began to harvest podiums for the team, Sato set about diligently collecting points, and occasionally out-performing the Briton. He claimed his first podium at Indianapolis in the USGP, and added fourth places in both Italy and Japan for good measure, eventually racking up 34 points and eighth overall in the standings.

He remained with BAR and Honda into 2005, when expectations again proved high after a strong winter of testing. In the event the first half of the year proved to be a major let down for Takuma, who having missed one race through illness, was forced to stand on the sidelines for another two events following BARs ban. In addition his driving was becoming inconsistent and his confidence seemed to wane as team-mate Button's smooth and flowing style garnered the points.

His season reached a low ebb in front of his home fans at Suzuka where he ran Trulli's Toyota off the track and eventually found himself excluded from the results.

Despite taking fierce criticism in Japan, Honda agreed to Sato being replaced for 2006 by Rubens Barrichello, but offered an olive branch by agreeing to supply engines to the hastily formed Super Aguri Racing Team which threw Sato the Formula 1 lifeline his career required.

2006 while not easy for Sato or the Super Aguri squad, proved ultimately rewarding and Taku impressed many down the pit lane with his attitude and perseverance. Indeed he managed to complete ten grand prix distances and as the season went on the team made good progress - and Taku ended the year on a high by taking tenth at the season ending Brazilian GP.

For 2007, Sato will be re-united with Anthony Davidson and while it remains uncertain what sort of results he will be able to pull off with the squad, his popularity, especially in Japan, is undiminished.



You guys shouldn't be so quick to judge without knowing a little about the man. To assume is to make an a** out of you and me.

 

[NSXLuvr]

Yeah for Sato. But I personally think its even more embarrissing for Honda that SA outperformed the main Honda team. On top of that, you have JB who was a complete moron coming out of the pits. He almost took himself and his teamate out. WTH!!! Morons I tell you. Morons!!!!

Renault, BMW and Honda were both struggling at the beginnning of the year. Its looks like Renault and BMW have improved. Honda - Well not so much.

I give up!!!

 

[BladesNSX]

Yeah for Sato. But I personally think its even more embarrissing for Honda that SA outperformed the main Honda team. On top of that, you have JB who was a complete moron coming out of the pits. He almost took himself and his teamate out. WTH!!! Morons I tell you. Morons!!!!

Renault, BMW and Honda were both struggling at the beginnning of the year. Its looks like Renault and BMW have improved. Honda - Well not so much.

I give up!!!

Don't give up:biggrin:

We will get better....Just you wait.

 

[waldorf]

Just.. wow... Shades of Shumacher and Barichello in the 2005 USGP except this time, Barichello gave his teammate *plenty* of room...

Yay for Sato... always loved that guy and his unconventional passing style.

Oh and thanks for the post, Zanardi. When I saw some of the other posts, I thought I was going to have go back and do some research. I remember he qualified second once and was a regular in the top 5 positions back in the 2003/2004 seasons with BAR.

 

[BD]

Re: Takumo from zero to hero

Takumo........he was a zero 2 years ago and would not, should not have been in anybody's car. But the rumor I heard was that Aguri himself basically started the team just to give him a ride. Looks like Takumo figured something out or grew up one. Anybody got a better read or history on him?

If Aguri is so bored that he will not only spend countless hours and millions of $$ just to have Japanese drivers in Formula 1, dude, I have to completely disgree with you again.

In 2004, he was proven to be the fastest Japanese driver ever in F1. In fact, he was fast most of that season, and eclipsed Button frequently. 2005 was an extemely bad luck year for you. Even Jenson Buttons had problem throught out that season. When Aguri set up the team, it made sense to have a all Japanese line up, because the drivers were cheap, and sponsorship was good. Takuma Sato was a natural choice because he was trained in Europe with the big cats, and he knows how to set up a F1 car.

Aguri Suzuki was the first Japanese ever to reach the podium in F1 as a racer. As a team owner, he started by owning a JGTC NSX team, and than an IRL team. His relationship with Honda was probably better than any body currently in the racing business. He made no secret years ago that it was his dream to have a F1 team.

 

[BladesNSX]

Play it again Vance....................Play it again

 

[BD]

I will put money on this one:

Once Barrichello's contract ends, Sato will end up with his seat. By then, he will be mature, and his Honda knowledge will help him. He does have race winning speed, just haven't yet show the true potential. Japanese crowds love him, so do the European F1 editorials. He may be a crash-it-holic, but that was years ago. The most important thing is, he is still young, and years of experience at SAF1 will only help him.

 

[areout]

Haha well it is possible but I doubt that. Anyway Honda is really slow now and if they dont better their car its totally unimportant who will drive it.

 

[BD]

Haha well it is possible but I doubt that. Anyway Honda is really slow now and if they dont better their car its totally unimportant who will drive it.

How much do you know about F1?

You don't go from being a world champ to no body over night. That's what happen to Renault. Honda was in the top five last year.

Considering the fact that both teams has the funding to make things work.

The problem is with the Bridestone Tires, once both team work out the issues, they will be flying.

 

[Skydiver]

I think Honda will be in the top 3 next year and possibly/hopefully champions in 2009. They have had some team issues and when they are all sorted out they will be in the top 3 fight. They don't lack the finances on this project, it's only a question about who will become the next team chief.

Jenson has the potential but he's not a gifted driver like Senna, Mansell or Prost, come to think of it none of the F1 drivers today are gifted like that.
Hamilton comes close but you have to take it into consideration that McLaren has been babying him for the last 8-10 years. Hamilton is nothing but a brainwashed driving machine.

Sato like Raikkonen has a very emotional driving style. I think that is what they need to become great.

I'm looking forward to my Honda F1 visit in July :biggrin:

 

[Ponyboy]

Honda F1's issues revolve around the radical aero design. Though switching to a control tire they're unfamiliar with certainly didn't help matters, all of the chassis instability during braking and handling events, makes the car slow. They've changed their sidepod to something similiar to Renault and it's helped a bit but it's no panacea.

Monaco should be a better race for them since the lack of high speed cornering (comparatively) diminishes aero advantages.

Re: Button as a driver. I don't think there's any question among the F1 fraternity that he's one of the best drivers on the grid.

Re: Sato...he's changing my once poor opinion of him. He must be maturing as a driver. Consider that he started very late (comparatively) in the racing game...

Honda F1 in 07 are toast already though. There should be considerable focus on the '08 car.

 

[docjohn]

winning in f1 has alot to do with exploiting the many rules changes year to year.Driver/engineer/directers must all comunicate well to get the car to improve.That said honda has the $ and interrest so thier time will come.Being Mid pack when you are well funded is tough for the team though, as those 1-2 seconds /lap can be blamed on a million different variables,that is why the brains of the outfit need to get the formula :wink: right!

 

[waldorf]

I always see Button at the top of the sheets when they show "apex speed". It's just the other parts of the track he's having problems with.

And Sato will have somewhat of a stigma to overcome as far as Ferrari fans go. My friends still refer to him as suisato and kamakuma and such.

 

[BladesNSX]

Hamilton is nothing but a brainwashed driving machine.

WHAT!?!?!?

Hmph, well that 'Robot' put some moves on Massa, making massa take the bate and run right off the track :tongue:

I've noticed alot of people refusing to show credit where credit is due with Hamilton. That's fine......I mean, if being the youngest rookie to have as many podiums in his early career AND to be leading in the championship points AND regardless of being "babied" by McLaren, to be on par with, if not better, than drivers with FAR more experience than he has, doesn't prove he is worthy of respect.......WELL. Why even bother arguing

 

[NSXrebel]

Wow, that's a mighty impressive resume Sato has. I can see him going back to Honda F1. I'm fairly new to F1, but from what I see, it will be a while before we see a group of drivers duke it out like the good ol' days of Senna/Mansell/Prost. Alonso, Hamilton, and Massa are good drivers, but not great, though there is potential.

 

[Ponyboy]

From yesterday's Paul Ricard test:

Honda introduced a significant aerodynamic upgrade at the test, with a new front wing, rear wing and sidepods. Rubens Barrichello was sixth fastest, although his quickest time was set using the original specification car. He lapped 0.5 seconds slower with the new package.

"I tried the upgrades, it seems more stable," he told autosport. "It is better, I think, and I think we are doing reasonable times."

He added that a lack of track knowledge was affecting his performance.

"The thing is I don't know the track," Barrichello said. "Ferrari hardly ever tested here so I (last) ran here with Jordan in '92! It was wet too!

"So I have re-learn the track. I have raced here in (Formula) Opel Lotus but that doesn't count."

 

[ak]

Wow, that's a mighty impressive resume Sato has. I can see him going back to Honda F1. I'm fairly new to F1, but from what I see, it will be a while before we see a group of drivers duke it out like the good ol' days of Senna/Mansell/Prost. Alonso, Hamilton, and Massa are good drivers, but not great, though there is potential.

I think this year, the drivers battle is closer than last few years. It'll be great to see how the 4(alonso, hamilton, massa and raikkinen) will battle it out throughout the year.

As for Hamilton, it's just a matter of time when he wins a race. I'm quite impressed with how he's performing considering that he's hanging with Alonso in the same machine.

 

[NSXrebel]

I think this year, the drivers battle is closer than last few years. It'll be great to see how the 4(alonso, hamilton, massa and raikkinen) will battle it out throughout the year.

As for Hamilton, it's just a matter of time when he wins a race. I'm quite impressed with how he's performing considering that he's hanging with Alonso in the same machine.

True, The last several years with MS just made F1 boring. Nice to see some actual competition between drivers.

 

[Skydiver]

I didn't mean that in a bad way. He is very talented and is becoming one of my favorite drivers today.

What I meant by that is that F1 drivers in the past didn't get months and months of training before their first match like Hamilton. Guys like Schumacher, Senna, Mansell, Lauda and Prost maybe got weeks of driving if they were lucky.

Of course McLaren was/is just training their driver to fit the car and team and it working amazingly well. Many other drivers and teams aren't as privileged. F1 is changing and hopefully for the better.


He's well worthy of respect and he certainly has my respect.
I'm not trying to create an argument, just expressing my "view" of F1's growth and changes.

WHAT!?!?!?

Hmph, well that 'Robot' put some moves on Massa, making massa take the bate and run right off the track :tongue:

I've noticed alot of people refusing to show credit where credit is due with Hamilton. That's fine......I mean, if being the youngest rookie to have as many podiums in his early career AND to be leading in the championship points AND regardless of being "babied" by McLaren, to be on par with, if not better, than drivers with FAR more experience than he has, doesn't prove he is worthy of respect.......WELL. Why even bother arguing

 

[areout]

How much do you know about F1?

You don't go from being a world champ to no body over night. That's what happen to Renault. Honda was in the top five last year.

Considering the fact that both teams has the funding to make things work.

The problem is with the Bridestone Tires, once both team work out the issues, they will be flying.

I follow it for quite some time, from my childhood (say almost 20 years). + I drove some GP simulators on PC(GP2,3,4, rFactor + mods etc.) and fully setup the car so I think I know much more about it than average F1 fan looking only numbers.

And I dont think tires are problem, this year everyone uses the same tires. And difference between Michelin and Bridgestone wasnt that big at all, maybe 0.1 per lap. I think this Honda simply doesnt have chassis and thats it, put this engine and transmission in Mc and you'll fly.