What is Honda F1's problem?

[BladesNSX]

Barichello did come from the back of the grid to finish in 11th spot. I don't know how much of that is due to the car, or his driving skill.

I heard the commentary from Speed, that Button described his F1 racecar as being "crap".

This is quite disappointing. In '04, there was talk about Honda and Toyota coming up in ranks to be competitive on par with Ferrari and McLaren.

 

[NSXLuvr]

FREAKIN' MORONS!!!!! I was hoping this was the year for Honda. Let see: Shumi retires, Kimi and Alonso change teams, Renault loses AF and Michelin, while Honda stays the same. On paper it looks like it would be an awesome year.

FREAKIN' MORONS!!! They can't seem to get the basics right. Its like keystone cops in the shop. I would be suprised if they beat Toyota or BMW for points this year.

FREAKIN' MORONS!!!!!!!!

 

[BladesNSX]

You think the new paint scheme hurt them?? Sigh, I don't know....Maybe they will come alive later in the season. I sure hope we do better than the bottom teams like Spyker and Red Bull :redface:

 

[BD]

You think the new paint scheme hurt them?? Sigh, I don't know....Maybe they will come alive later in the season. I sure hope we do better than the bottom teams like Spyker and Red Bull :redface:

The new paint scheme? Nah, it's most likely because they replaced their British designer with a Japanese one.

The lack of experience in Aero Dynamic department.

I feel sorry for the guy who was put into that position.

Now the new rumor is, Honda is after Ross Brown. If that is the case, you may see revival this season, but doubtful.

Even genius such as Adrien Newey is not doing much with the Redbull car...

 

[foxy-abby]

I was shocked when I read Nick Fry say that they might be competitive only after the Spanish Grand Prix. They've had all summer with the full length wind tunnel, and the aero package is the part killing the car? I just can't imagine starting a new season and not being prepared. "Excuse me boss, I'm not really feeling myself after the weekend, so I'm going to mail-in Mon and Tues, but I'll be ready to give it hell the rest of the week."
And that (expletive)ing paint job only makes these races more painful. Good luck landing any talented young drivers next year.
Jesse

 

[TC]

I'm sure that Button is really fuming after being lapped in the race by 2nd place finisher, fellow Briton and ROOKIE, Louis Hamilton.

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Need a lot of outside help

Honda is after Ross Brown.

That is their only hope at this time and I'd like to think it could happen. Although I attributed a lot of Ferrari's success to Schumi's personal and motivational skills, Ross was the man behind the scenes and apparently was indispensable for several reasons. Anyway, the fact that Nick Fry made an unathorized call to Brawn may be the ironic twist as some have suggested that Brawn would be the logical replacement for Fry.

The other thing Honda needs to do is find some young Hamilton-like talent. Jensen's not capable of winning and Reubens is well, old and on the way out.

 

[BladesNSX]

I'm sure that Button is really fuming after being lapped in the race by 2nd place finisher, fellow Briton and ROOKIE, Louis Hamilton.

Actually, I was going to start a new thread about this, but it seems we have plenty of F1 fans viewing this thread. This young Hamilton is FANTASTIC!!! Imagine the skill and talent needed to be picked up as a primary driver for one of F1's most prestigious teams: McLaren!!

Then, on top of that, to prove yourself to be on par, if not BETTER than some of the seasoned top drivers.

I'm sure Kimi could have passed Louis' McLaren, had he not been playing it a bit cautious due to the slight overheating of the Ferrari Engine after minor mechanical issues in Melbourne. Still, let's face it, Kimi is no slouch. Hamilton is clearly an incredible driver.

Did you see the way he fainted Massa on turn four in the Malaysion GP?!?!? Massa outbreaked himself, taking the bait and ran off the track. I bet Ferrari were wishing THEY had Hamilton on THEIR team :biggrin:

I guess I'm kinda biased towards Hamilton since I am mixed black/white of the Islands, even though Hamilton claimed Britian as his home country. It's the first kinda black guy in F1 AFAIK. Exciting times for me lol.

But, back to Honda. Yes, they need new blood. If I could snap my fingers and make some magical changes for Honda, I would:

1. Bring is Ross Brawn

2. Bring in young talent like Louis Hamilton (since I doubt Hamilton would leave McLaren, and thus dump his chances of an early championship, to go to Honda).

3. Change that Bloody Paint Scheme. One can be Earth friendly without looking ugly on the track.

4. Force them to ask themselves, WHY the Super Auguri Team is doing BETTER than they are.

5. Erm, since I'm making the wishes, Let me drive the F1 car!!:biggrin:

6. Since I am kinda dark natured, and Blade like...Make the New Paint Scheme Primarily Black with Red Highlights, Yeah...Nice and evil Looking!

 

[TC]

Hamilton is certainly an excellent driver - and he certainly benefits from having an great car. A great car makes a good driver better and a great driver makes a good car better. Rubens had few (if any) wins before coming to Ferrari, and then starting getting podiums and wins on a regular basis. He left Ferrari for Honda and I don't he's been on the podium since, let alone the top step. Masa had no wins or poles before coming to Ferrari, now he has some of both.

Great drivers can tell the engineers exactly what the car is doing and what it needs. Schumi did that better than anyone - he was very technical in that regards - and was able to build a winning team from a losing team. Button and Barichello don't seem to have that ability. During practice last week, honda put a strip of wool on the rear wing and a camera on the sidepod so they could see how the wool was being directed by the wind. WTF is up with that?

Honda needs a driver that can sense exactly what is going on the with car and communicate that to the engineers. Rubens and Jensen can't do that - after 2 and 3 years with the team, if they haven't done it by now, then it is clear that they don't have that abililty.

I think Fernando has that abililty - and now Renault is suffering from the loss of it. Ralph clearly doesn't have the abililty - after 4 years with Toyota and the car isn't getting any better. I think Kimi has that ability - and he would have won more times (and perhaps a championship) if the McLaren wasn't so unreliable over the past 2-3 years.

Good drivers in great cars - they will win but the cars will decline due to lack of driver input.

Great drivers in good cars - the cars will eventually become regularly winning cars.

Great drivers in great cars - a dynasty like Shumi and Ferrari for their run of 5 years.

Good drivers in good cars - status quo, neither the driver or the car will improve.

Honda has good drivers in good cars. To break out, they need a great driver to help make the car great.

 

[BladesNSX]

Hamilton is certainly an excellent driver - and he certainly benefits from having an great car. A great car makes a good driver better and a great driver makes a good car better. Rubens had few (if any) wins before coming to Ferrari, and then starting getting podiums and wins on a regular basis. He left Ferrari for Honda and I don't he's been on the podium since, let alone the top step. Masa had no wins or poles before coming to Ferrari, now he has some of both.

Great drivers can tell the engineers exactly what the car is doing and what it needs. Schumi did that better than anyone - he was very technical in that regards - and was able to build a winning team from a losing team. Button and Barichello don't seem to have that ability. During practice last week, honda put a strip of wool on the rear wing and a camera on the sidepod so they could see how the wool was being directed by the wind. WTF is up with that?

Honda needs a driver that can sense exactly what is going on the with car and communicate that to the engineers. Rubens and Jensen can't do that - after 2 and 3 years with the team, if they haven't done it by now, then it is clear that they don't have that abililty.

I think Fernando has that abililty - and now Renault is suffering from the loss of it. Ralph clearly doesn't have the abililty - after 4 years with Toyota and the car isn't getting any better. I think Kimi has that ability - and he would have won more times (and perhaps a championship) if the McLaren wasn't so unreliable over the past 2-3 years.

Good drivers in great cars - they will win but the cars will decline due to lack of driver input.

Great drivers in good cars - the cars will eventually become regularly winning cars.

Great drivers in great cars - a dynasty like Shumi and Ferrari for their run of 5 years.

Good drivers in good cars - status quo, neither the driver or the car will improve.

Honda has good drivers in good cars. To break out, they need a great driver to help make the car great.

Yes, this is certainly true.

I wonder why it is that Honda has suffered so poorly in the past couple years. I mean, didn't they seem like they were improving in '03 and '04? I remember Sato would show some bold driving, while Button would show smooth and collected driving. Usually, Button would be in the points paying position; and sadly, Sato's car would give up on them (remember the Suzuka race where Sato's engine blew up? :redface: ). I hope they can get it together soon. If they really need some young fresh talent, they better start looking.

 

[ChopsJazz]

IMO, it all the chassis. Okay, and management and driving...

 

[92 white 0650]

Okay, and management

Yeah, who's responsible for basic lack of team coordination in the garage? Why is Fry still around? And what the hell does Gil DeFerran do as a "sporting director"?

I love Honda to death, but god, let's face facts, as an overall organization, they are really off on some tangents now and that's got to affect this F-1 team.

 

[TyraNSX]

http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070411085555.shtml

 

[BladesNSX]

Well then, I'm quite curious what Honda will bring forth after Monaco. Perhaps this year Honda will not be much of a contender. However, if they do indeed get Ross (and perhaps a new rookie contender), '08 might be the year for Honda :redface:

 

[BD]

I forgot to mention: Bridgestones.

Super Aguri is doing better than Honda is most likely due to the fact that SAF1 used the Bridgestone Tires last year. Renault is running into similar problems because of the switch. Both of them used Michilin last year.

Honda most like will not introduce a new car but a heavily modified one. Until the test is done with the modified parts, they will not put them on.

 

[streetfather]

Talents of F1 and Honda nonsenses

Talents are good ye.....but i think there are talents in F1 gp already.The car is a big factor of the image that a player can show.We could say that the most of the racers are talented because of their chance to run in F1.So i have to say some words about the talents of F1 and how they can increase their possibilities to have a good appearance in the gps.First of all Button...i am a big fan of this man because of his patience to keep his talent out of the circuits because of the big mistakes of honda.Honda shew its irresponsibility in this competition and kept its drivers out of a competitive season for one more year.Dont think that she can improve from one day to other.So i believe that button did a big mistake to stay in this post.So as you can see the cars is the main factor of what it will happen in the season....BMW has a very good car and its drivers are doing fine.....heidfeld and kubica have plenty of talent nad i am sure that if they were in ferrari or mclaren they could easily have more chances to take something better.So we are not sure for who is the big talent and who is not cause of its car....Webber is a very good racer also...Alonso Raikonnen....Fishichella....i have some doubts for Sutil Albers and Kovalainen....also wurtz is good......my first post hi everybody

 

[streetfather]

Talents

Talents isnt easy to be found......thats because of the car and the rules that makes the driving more mechanical.......

 

[BladesNSX]

Welcome Streetfather!!:biggrin:

I understand what you mean regarding talent. In the end, when you see the time results of best laps, the drivers or only seconds apart. I'm sure most people wouldn't be able to DRIVE an F1 car, much less be one or two seconds behind in a laptime behind prodigious talents like Kimi and Alonso. So that being said, so many variables must be in sync to be really competitive, i.e. chassis, earo package, balance, set up, driver, tyres etc.

I suppose what I am saying when I say Honda needs "new talent" is a young driver, the likes of Hamilton (yes I know I keep going on and on about the guy but WOW), to take the team to new heights over the next few years.

Imagine, if Honda DOES get Ross Brawn, and DOES get a talented young driver (Don't get me wrong, I like Button and even Barichello). You may well see a team that is pushed by the genius of Brawn to improved, and pulled or compelled to improve by the demands of a young talented driver on fire to win races Wow, if all this can come to fruition around the same time the Next Gen NSX is released....that would give me goosebumps :tongue:

 

[streetfather]

Talents

Hmm i think honda needs new blood.....but.....that doesnt mean that F1 grid of this season hasnt to offer good transfers...such as kubica heidfeld.....not young so but talents undoubtedly...thats because today i listened that BMW's technichal officer wants to kick a racer to give his post to Vettel...natural talent but this is a new generation of F1 and some drivers must admit that their career end is near and that they must give the opportunity to new players...its bad not to understand this as a driver.....proves that so many years in this sport didnt teach you a lot and didnt give you maturity....we say the same things i believe...So Barichello was a good driver but as every sport F1 is going straight ahead and its naturally that drivers stay behind.....thats life and many players must understand this and let the Talents as Vettel to show what he worth...See circuit F1 is something more than money...I liked montoyas move to leave F1...If he had decided to stay we wouldnt have probably seen Hamilton...thats the opportunities i am talking about...sorry if i say many things...then we w8 for a good race tomorrow...

 

[ericwgnsx]

Hey BladesNSX, I like your taste in personal vehicles! I will work on getting an S2000 next!

 

[TC]

Now the Honda F1 engine looks suspect - as David Hobbs said today "... three Honda engines done blowed up this weekend..." Honda F1 is the only works team with no points yet - even Toyota has a couple.

 

[BladesNSX]

Hey BladesNSX, I like your taste in personal vehicles! I will work on getting an S2000 next!

Lol, well done. Make sure you sell the Teg though. Don't be a fool like me and buy the S2K without having done so. I've been having trouble finding a buyer willing to actaully go through the transaction. I'm single, so having three cars is ridiculous.:redface:



Yes, Three Honda Engines blew up this weekend. Very sad race for Honda indeed. Things are certainly looking glum. :frown:

BUT, on a lighter note. My new Fav. F1 racer Mr. Hamilton himself, is looking quite good! Quite good indeed!

 

[92 white 0650]

More engines blowing.....Okay, and management too

Yeah, I thought we were through blowing up engines last year.

Jacques V on Windtunnel tonite alluded to the management mistakes made by Honda. IIRC he used the example of them letting the talented engineers go for some political decisions made in the home corporate office.

For my money, lack of aero, engines blowing up and everything else isn't just bad luck, it points to fundamental mismanagement by out of touch ivory tower corporate executives. The kind of crap the Sporting Director should be heading off. (Can you tell I want Gil held responsible, at least a little bit?)

I hope they didn't make these kinds of mistakes on their biz jet program !!!

 

[TC]

I don't know if Gil D. is responsible for much - he joined the team last year, if memory serves. I think the decision to get rid of David Richards last year was dumb.

 

[rowr]

Hopefully, the works Honda team can get the problem figured out and the situation turned around. Not to be able to do as well as the Super Aguri team has to be an eye opener for them.

BUT, on a lighter note. My new Fav. F1 racer Mr. Hamilton himself, is looking quite good! Quite good indeed!

Blades, he's a very talented racer, that's for sure. All of that McLaren corporate grooming has him giving great post race interviews as well.. very refined and well spoken with the press and public.