What is Honda F1's problem?

[Ponyboy]

Indeed, Bernie's overarching goals are growth of the sport, safety, and money. He uses the combination of high sanctioning fees, track facility refurbishments, and threats of going elsewhere to keep the sport in the direction he envisions. Although some of his past actions have been questionable to say the least, there's a reason why F1 has seen phenominal growth over the last several decades and why he's richer than all of us put together.

This year's victims look like Magny Cours and Imola. Couple of years ago it was Spa and Suzuka. But there may a flicker of hope, Bernie wants a 20 race season next year. Here's a good primer:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Formula_One_season

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Skullduggery; this should attract US interest in F-1

Another rumor is that Nigel Stepney is on the way over to Honda as well. That's if Italy doesn't put him in jail. Now that would make for a very interesting 2nd half of the year and 08.

The VERY interesting 2nd half of this season is here and Honda isn't part of this very bizarre story about "Stepneygate."

 

[Ponyboy]

Should the allegations prove true, Stepney at Ferrari and Couglin at McLaren, will both be banned for life from any FIA sanctioned race, at the very least. I'm sure they'll still be around the industry somehow but, wow, what a risky hire.

 

[BD]

Should the allegations prove true, Stepney at Ferrari and Couglin at McLaren, will both be banned for life from any FIA sanctioned race, at the very least. I'm sure they'll still be around the industry somehow but, wow, what a risky hire.

The question is not whether the allegations proven true, but if McLaren used that information to improve their car.

It is very interesting to see some one who spend 15 years with Ferrari, worked his way up, and have a well paying, solid position to pull this kind of crime.

But again, I wonder if Ferrari set him up in order to get McLaren out of the way in the Championship fight. After all, Stepney is only the head machanic.

 

[Ponyboy]

As the World Turns: F1 Style.

Nick Fry let it be known today that both Stepney and Coughlan both courted employment with Honda F1 Racing (Stepney brought Coughlan to the meeting) last month. Although no confidential information was offered or received, the "rumor" is that Stepney and Coughlan were planning to bring their combined Ferrari and Macca experience and knowledge (in hardcopy form) to the Honda table and were going to use the leaked material to sweeten the deal. To Nick Fry's credit, as I read it, Todt and Dennis were informed of the meeting.

Still, it reeks like a Scooter Libby commutation.

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: This is getting good

From this source

In one story, Fry is understandably distancing himself and Honda from the mess. In a 2nd story:

Stepney threatens to reveal 'bodies'
Written by Administrator
Sunday, 08 July 2007
Jul.8 (GMM) Already accused of espionage and sabotage, sacked formula one veteran Nigel Stepney has now threatened to reveal more hidden secrets about the Ferrari team. Through his lawyer, the Briton had already indicated that he may sue his former employers for unfair dismissal, and in newspapers on Sunday he repeated his claim of total innocence. Stepney has now fled Italy again, speaking to the Sunday Times from a Mediterranean hideaway because he said he had been harassed by unidentified Italian figures. "I've been framed," he said, before issuing a warning to his former bosses. Stepney said: "I've been with Ferrari for 14 years and there's been a lot of controversy over the years, and I obviously know where the bodies are buried." Ferrari did not immediately comment.

 

[BD]

It is actually a common practice for teams to received design prints of another team. F1 cars change so much between races that when ever the drawing is reached another team, it is deem obsolete.

In F1, it is never a "crime" until some one set precedent and make fuzz about it. In this case, Ferrari raised the issue. It is also true that Ferrari is the biggest crybaby in the series, they often broke rules but they don't like others to do the same.

In this case, Honda was involved; sounds like Nick Fry had permission from both Ferrari and McLaren before he interviewed the two candidates. What I'm curious to see if there is "actually" a conspiracy that Nick Fry knowingly interviews those two because they had the hard copies of the prints. Regardless, I think it is silly that this has escalated to this point. Aerodynamic of the car can be measure now a day by simply studying for the pictures, no hard copy of the blue print is needed.

So yep, I think Ferrari is using this to see if they can get McLaren out of the championship race.

 

[TC]

During the British GP broadcast, Steve M. mentioned that Honda F1 was running last year's cars for the race weekend - but I haven't seen that in print anywhere. Anyone know any more details - did they go back to last year's car? If so, for how many races?

 

[Ponyboy]

During the British GP broadcast, Steve M. mentioned that Honda F1 was running last year's cars for the race weekend - but I haven't seen that in print anywhere. Anyone know any more details - did they go back to last year's car? If so, for how many races?

I heard that as well and have been trying to confirm it through various sources. Everything I've read and seen (pics of the car) during the race points to them still running the RA107. Of course, it's all bodywork and not the chasis itself but, still, changing the RA107 body molds to fit the RA106 would be quite a formidable challenge.

In other news, Loic Bigios will be leaving Williams early to work for Honda F1 and there's rumors of yet another big name engineer signing (possibly Jorg Zander).

 

[myopicpaideia]

Well the official Honda F1 site (www.hondaracingf1.com) indicates that the RA107 was used for the British GP. Bob Varsha was actually the one that mentioned that Honda was using last year's car on the Fox Broadcast of the race. Wierd indeed. I wonder where he got that information? This was already mentioned above, but I don't know if the Factory team even can use last year's car at this point, since Super Aguri is already using it, and it is already a hot point of discussion about whether that is ok for this year. Of course, next year the whole point is moot, but we aren't in next year, yet.

Oh, and Zander has been confirmed as the new "Deputy" technical director to work just under Nakamoto (Who really should already be dismissed, which I suspect he will be at the end of the season) who is staying on as "Senior" technical director. Good news, but bogus that Nakamoto is still there.

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Next year can't get here soon enough

but we aren't in next year, yet. :smile:

shouldn't that :smile: really be a :redface: :frown: ??? I'm enjoying the racing this year alright, but definitely not as a Honda fan.

 

[Ponyboy]

Don't worry. This year will make future success that much better. :wink:

 

[BD]

McLaren is now charged by the London Court. Not Honda.... Interesting...

 

[NSXLuvr]

Gotta love F1!! More drama than a day time soap opera.

 

[NSXrebel]

Take out McLaren and Ferrari for the rest of the year , maybe then Honda will have a chance, maybe not. :biggrin: :redface:

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Lay it on us Gil

Gil DeFerran knows what Honda's F-1 problem is; maybe he'll now be at liberty to tell

 

[Ponyboy]

Read about de Ferran this morning. Sad but not surprising since no one really knew what the heck the guy did. He used to give quotes to the press before every grand prix but I haven't seen him mentioned in quite a while.

I'm checking on his availability for NSXPO '07.

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Honda's no BS moves

Honda is facing their problems squarely right now and I give them credit for that. Although I may have said that Reubens and Jensen are no longer podium material, keeping them on for another year while they rebuild the staff, especially the aero staff, sounds like the right answer for now.

 

[BD]

Re: Honda's no BS moves

Honda is facing their problems squarely right now and I give them credit for that. Although I may have said that Reubens and Jensen are no longer podium material, keeping them on for another year while they rebuild the staff, especially the aero staff, sounds like the right answer for now.

lol, the best drivers in the field usually end up with the best team. So doesn't matter how much Honda is willing to pay Alonso, Kimi, or any one of those top guys, they wouldn't be there. They are not Alex Rodriguez, took 250 million and went to one of the crappiest team. Each on of them want to win, not just drive the car. So, until they can pull a season similar to their 2004 season, they don't have a chance. Maybe Brunno Senna can do something...lol

 

[NSXGMS]

Re: Honda's no BS moves

Honda is facing their problems squarely right now and I give them credit for that. Although I may have said that Reubens and Jensen are no longer podium material, keeping them on for another year while they rebuild the staff, especially the aero staff, sounds like the right answer for now.

Honda's problems are so big I don't know if there's any other way to face it.

While Rubens is definitely in the twilight of his career (the best times are behind him) I haven't ever heard anyone in the sport suggest that Button wasn't extremely quick. Even if he never becomes world champ, which he probably won't, he is still podium material and I believe the best times are ahead of him.

Button is an excellent qualifier, always has been. He hasn't been able to translate those poles into wins which has not always been his fault. If he keeps taking pole he will win eventually.

I guarantee that if Button left Honda he would get a seat wherever he wanted if one were available meaning Renault, BMW or Williams. Politics aside, Renault would take him in a second. He's better than both Kovalainen and Fisi.

Honda should do whatever they can to keep Button and to a lesser degree Rubens. Right now, the driver is better than the car. Until that changes, Honda would do well to keep both Rubens and Jenson. If Honda's plans are to get Sato back in the seat of a Honda then Button is their best choice. Also, sticking with their current drivers while major restructuring of the car and team occurs can't be a bad thing. Jenson and Rubens are good enough to tell the team if the car is coming along or not.

 

[BD]

Don't worry, Honda will turn it around next season. They just hired two big shot designers from BMW and they will get the job done. The will not however, challenging Ferrari. McLaren in my opionion, will drop down next season because their head designer is in some serious legal trouble, and McLaren will like to to fire him.

 

[Ponyboy]

Since the Geof Willis' departure, it seems Honda F1's major problem has been aero and Nick Fry has admitted to such in the latest round of interviews. The addition of Zander and Bigois should definitely help though I hope the bureaucratic red tape of a large F1 team doesn't dampen their efforts. And Honda F1 is still searching for a technical director so there's still some re-org in the future.

IMHO, their driver line-up is pretty damn good. Give Button a competitive car and he'll be in contention for the driver's championship - I don't think there's any differing intelligent opinion about it. Rubenho, while older, has excellent racecraft and is just as good as, if not better, than he was at Ferrari. He's more motivated and has more input into the car's dynamics than ever before. Remember this guy is the same person that, more than once, was asked to pull over so Schuey could win.

The new aero on the RA107 seems to be working well. Button is w/i a half second (in 8th) in today's practice.

 

[Ponyboy]

Another poor qualifying result: Rubeninho at 14th and Button at 17th.

 

[swbatte]

What troubles me is they aren't improving at all through the season. This is a high mid pack team and they are finishing very poorly.

The drivers JB & RB are definitely driving the cars well. Ruebens seems to have found his stride in a Honda chasis now. They both qualify fairly close together and finish fairly close. The engines make good power and seem reliable. Their chasis is just brutal. I don't know how they built this with wind tunnel & CAD CAM analysis and still released this car!

It's good to see a tight race for the championship though! I also like seeing DC and Red Bull doing so well! BMW keeps getting better and better. This is the best F1 season in years. I just wish Honda was competitive. :redface:

 

[NSXGMS]

What troubles me is they aren't improving at all through the season. This is a high mid pack team and they are finishing very poorly.

The drivers JB & RB are definitely driving the cars well. Ruebens seems to have found his stride in a Honda chasis now. They both qualify fairly close together and finish fairly close. The engines make good power and seem reliable. Their chasis is just brutal. I don't know how they built this with wind tunnel & CAD CAM analysis and still released this car!

It's good to see a tight race for the championship though! I also like seeing DC and Red Bull doing so well! BMW keeps getting better and better. This is the best F1 season in years. I just wish Honda was competitive. :redface:

Nakamoto designed the chassis and has no F1 experience. It shows. It's too late for 07. The chassis is too flawed. They will only be putting band-aids on a gaping wound.

I think Rubens' experience is allowing him to drive the car faster than Jenson at this point. Rubens is probably better at adapting to a car and Jenson is probably trying to force a square peg in a round hole. I think you'd find that a crafty veteran can drive an inferior car faster than a blazing fast rookie. Look at both Webber and DC. They consistently beat Speed and Liuzzi in essentially the same car. Seems like the vets are better at taking what the car gives them as opposed to pushing so hard the car ends up slower. Seems to me when the car is inferior it's the driving fundamentals that win out. JMO.