Walked a C6 Z06

Really? Then why can't ACURA design a car that looks worth a sh1T right now at the $100K+ level? The ASSC is terrible. Their other concepts have been horrid. Lexus is BLOWING them away with the LF-A. The RL was a sales flop yet again. Don't be so confident in "Acura"Design Talent". I sure havent seen it. I don't think many would disagree with me on that.

The ONLY good thing they have done in the last 5 years was the HSC. Of course, it was paired with a 300HP V6. What IDIOT made that decision??? If the HSC had come out with a 5.0 V10 with 500HP, quite a few prime members would be driving one right now. Instead we are now looking to Audi for the R8 to meet our Mid-Engine supercar dreams.

Obviously you have your mind made up on the vette, and thats fine -- but you should think a little before you write.

I agree with you that Lexus is blowing Acura out the water. I have no issues with that. I am not a diehard Acura/Honda fan. Infact I would have brought it up in the discusion, but I feel that Lexus is also reaching that point where they are becoming overatted. The IS350 is nice car, but it isn't what everyone makes it out to be. They are holding their own with the LFA designs though, so hopefully their future vehicles will get more influence from it.

Many people who test drove the HSC prototype speculated that it had 350 hp. That is ample hp for a 3000 car, the NSX-R did awesome with under 300. I'd would rather take a 350 hp MR than a 500 hp long nose FR. The V-6 still has room for modding and more hp, where the V-10, well I don't see anyone getting much more power out of it.

Anyways, what does market direction have to do with design? They are totally two different areas. Everyone hates the fact that the AASCC is FR and liked that HSC and NSX were MR. If the AASCC was MR, and had similar design style, I gurantee not many people would complain. The whole long nose, bloated look of a V-10 FR layout is not very appealing to many people as a MR layout, esp when you had a MR orginal that was damn good. They are trying to synthesize a S2000 + NSX and that is a bad direction.

The LFA looks good because it is hard to tell whether it is a FR or MR layout, even though it will be a FR layout. Don't get it twisted either, the proportions of the LFA could be more exotic still, as it is looking a wee bit too tall. It's not a design issue for the NSX sucessor right now, but a marketing and most likely a engineering issue. They are probably having issues getting the SH-AWD to work on a MR platform and it is probably more economical to make a FR V-10(sound ridiculous right there, but OK). The AASCC would not look bad if it was a S2000 sucessor with design cues from the S2000. Then people would look at the AASCC would look at it differently.

So don't get design, engineering, and marketing mixed up. If they had their market choice right or rather, they were going for the market that current NSX owners are in, then they would have delivered a nice NSX sucessor, but apparently Acura is not headed that direction anymore. They want to compete with the LFA and GTR on the same platform evidently. Bad mistake in my opinion, which is why they are probably rethinking their plan and hopefully go back to the MR layout.

So you need to think before you post. Marketing, Design, and Engineering. Realize the differences between them. The automobile and all other mass produced product are composed of this trinity. If one fails, mostlikely the vehicle will fail, in a industry POV. O the RL sales were flat? The NSX didn't sell like Acura wanted to? That's nice. I for one could care less for great sales, I welcome it. I am a customer. As long I have what I want, I could care less if the company sells millions of this car, infact I want to have modest sales since the value would be a lot better when it's rarer. In today's world, it seems like it all about money and so the engineering and design department tends to be overrided a bit, which is not a great thing.

The corvette has the market and engineering, but it lacks design, the inbetween of engineering and marketing, the human factor, the sophistication, the passion or emotion. In fact, MOST (not all) American design lack this, but it seems that they may be catching up after a long hiatus, (and with that I agree that the c5 to c6 interior made a decent leap, but still lacking compared to the rest of the industry, esp for pricepoint). Nontheless brand identity has been established, and it would be a rut for many American brands to despell.
 
The corvette has the market and engineering, but it lacks design, the inbetween of engineering and marketing, the human factor, the sophistication, the passion or emotion. In fact, MOST (not all) American design lack this, but it seems that they may be catching up after a long hiatus, (and with that I agree that the c5 to c6 interior made a decent leap, but still lacking compared to the rest of the industry, esp for pricepoint). Nontheless brand identity has been established, and it would be a rut for many American brands to despell.

Corvette lacks design?? Over 30,000 people a year seem to disagree with you. I think I have a pretty good understanding of the automobile industry.
Let me explain to you how it works. It is all about $$$. Period.

From your resume, it looks like you are still in school. Do you even own an NSX yet? No flames here.. just curious.

FYI, your 3d renderings are awesome.
 
so now cost is $15k less than the Z06, the car has a huge weight advantage, and at 12 psi it has a huge power advantage.

You do of course realize that the Z06 weighs less than the 3.2 NSX right?

Your 94 might be lighter, but it won't be by much.

I don't have any doubt you can build a NSX to be faster than a Z06. None at all. Of course, I also do not doubt you can make a C6 faster than almost any turbo NSX. Learn more here: http://www.lingenfelter.com/Lingenfelter2006ZO6TTBGB.htm
 
Don't take it too seriously. You weren't knocking the Vette.
Netviper just goes off like that sometimes.:smile: He's very sensitive about criticism or lack of appreciation for the car he owns. Understandable I suppose.

Aw man, and just when we were starting to get along... :biggrin:

You know it is funny, when I had the NSX I spent time defending on other sites because it is such a great car. However, on the NSX site most people were always open to other cars because most here are car enthusiasts, not just NSX guys.

Now that I have the vette it seems like I am always having to defend it on prime... oh well..

I am happy with my choice.
 
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Corvette lacks design?? Over 30,000 people a year seem to disagree with you. I think I have a pretty good understanding of the automobile industry.
Let me explain to you how it works. It is all about $$$. Period.

From your resume, it looks like you are still in school. Do you even own an NSX yet? No flames here.. just curious.

FYI, your 3d renderings are awesome.

It may seem like it is all about money today, but when the first NSX was born, it was not about money. Companies are losing sight of passion and emotion. The Halo car shouldn't be about money anyways, it should be able putting your brand's capabilities on show. Sorta like how the the Bugatti Veyron or GTR is, cause I cannot see it making a profit.

30,000 people a year buy the corvette not based on design, but because they thrilled to drive a sports car that can hold it's own with against most other cars on the road for a low amount of $$$. They are not sitting in the corvette saying, "Wow this interior really gets my passion started." They are sitting in saying I can't wait to mash the gas and feel the torque. There is a clear difference in buying a car because it was designed beautifully and because of it's performance.

You still obviously don't understand what I am saying. Money or the market is the obvious first priority in today's world, but it not what makes a sports car a GREAT car, it about the synthesis of Design and Engineering. The market just funds it. The corvette is a fast as hell car for the money, but it is not a great car because its design is not on par with its performance. I give the corvette it's props on performance, but it's not a GREAT car (unless perhaps you are judging from the exterior only) if you take out the performance factor. I understand you are defending your decision, but I'm not dogging your vette. I am just saying you bought it on based on economics+performance-style. Not many cars can have all three fields.

"If people didn't do this, then I wouldn't be able to buy a 12 year old car with 15k on the odo." I was referring to my NSX when I said that. Points to my avatar. Thanks for your comment, it's much appreciated.
 
You do of course realize that the Z06 weighs less than the 3.2 NSX right?

Your 94 might be lighter, but it won't be by much.

As I said, I was speaking about my particular car, which is 2800lbs with a full interior; There is a Japanese tuner, Esprit, who has a street-legal turbo NA2 nsx that weighs 2400lbs - perhaps I should compare this to a convertible fully-optioned corvette to make my point?

In your weight comparison, you're looking at a coupe corvette, and comparing it to a targa NSX; you're skewing the data to fit your assumptions.

If you compare a 3.2L coupe NSX to a coupe corvette, the NSX weighs less, by well over 150lbs.

If you compare a convertible corvette (base model, with manual top) to a targa nsx, the nsx weighs over 40lbs less.

If you compare special track-oriented editions, an NA2-R to the C6 Z06, the nsx weighs over 330lbs less; In fact, a standard 3.2L coupe nsx weighs less than the Z06 corvette, which has special features to reduce weight - this is an nsx with a spare tire, air pump, tool kit, tape deck, etc. compared to a purpose-built sportscar with a carbon fiber roof.

I don't think you're going to win the weight argument against the nsx, this is its feature - its nice that Chevrolet has taken this factor into consideration, but its the base of the nsx's design. Regardless of year and trim, the nsx has a weight advantage, when comparing apples to apples.
 
People can quote all the magazines and stats they want and tell me over and over what a great car and terrific value it is. I have driven several C6 Vettes including the C6 ZO6 but they just don't do it for me. (BTW I have owned 3 previous generation Corvettes)

I could have a C6 Vette or C6 ZO6 any time, any day I want but don't want one at all. Don't want a Viper either.

I'd rather have a 355, 360,another NSX or two, S2000, R8, Triumph TR4, Porsche Turbo (or C2 or C4S), or a 60's E-Type to name a few

Vettes? 71 LT1 or a 1962 but from the C5 on I just don't like how they look or feel.

You get behind the wheel and how you feel is what it is all about.

I don't condone street racing but it was a nice story. You got a few folks here all worked up and worried.
 
People can quote all the magazines and stats they want and tell me over and over what a great car and terrific value it is. I have driven several C6 Vettes including the C6 ZO6 but they just don't do it for me. (BTW I have owned 3 previous generation Corvettes)

I could have a C6 Vette or C6 ZO6 any time, any day I want but don't want one at all. Don't want a Viper either.

I'd rather have a 355, 360,another NSX or two, S2000, R8, Triumph TR4, Porsche Turbo (or C2 or C4S), or a 60's E-Type to name a few

Vettes? 71 LT1 or a 1962 but from the C5 on I just don't like how they look or feel.

You get behind the wheel and how you feel is what it is all about.

I don't condone street racing but it was a nice story. You got a few folks here all worked up and worried.
Damn Joe, you and I have very similar taste in cars, just add an AH3000 to the list and I'm with you!!
 
Yea, well the new NSX will probably weight 3500 lbs if not more, so I guess the 400 HP or 500 needded.

Not sure what they would do with regards to weight since last I heard, they won't be using AL for the chassis like last time.

When the FD was out in a lighter steel chassis, the folks at Honda must have been scratching their heads.
 
It's not all about weight too.

Weight distribution is where the Vette should be better than the NSX on ease of use.

Front-mid with a near 50/50 weight are easier to push and recover on the edge of handling than something with a rear weight bias.

I'm talking from my FD experience which should be similar to the vettes, but lighter.

The FD was much more forgiving to drive at the edge and easier to recover should I start to break traction in the rear.

NSX or mid-rear engine cars in general are not as easy to recover once u start to loose it on the turns.
 
Not sure what they would do with regards to weight since last I heard, they won't be using AL for the chassis like last time.

When the FD was out in a lighter steel chassis, the folks at Honda must have been scratching their heads.

Have you seen the AASCC? Have you read the dimensions? It's not exactly a small car. It actually much longer, wider and taller than the current NSX. Even the current NSX is quite long. When you get bigger, you get heavier, esp with a V-10 also. It's a GT and GTs don't spell out light weight either. Also there is the damned safety rule of heavier being safer(screw that, I'll take my chances with lighter weight). They could try to do as much weight reduction as possible, but the overall dimensions will still keep the weight up. Even the HSC was heavier than the NSX, which was smaller than the NSX in dimension and had more carbon fiber weight treatment.

The Rx7's lighter engine also gives tribute the 50/50 weight distribution and light curb weight. The Rx7 is also smaller than the NSX in dimension. The NSX is shorter in height(in which there is not much weight in roofs of cars), but overall dimensions are longer and wider.

I agree with you on the 50/50 weight distribution part. It is a lot more forgiving and easy to handle. The Rx7's light curb weight and revvy engine makes it feel like a nimble cheetah. This may also be why they chose to go FR. Of course in the capable hands, the MR platform may outedge the FR layout. It is a shame about the engine issues though (I'd still buy one though if I could find one cheap enough that's not screwed up and use it as a second driver).
 
Teh FD is shorter and narrower than the NSX - But I would think that has more to do with the skin than the chassis. And or subtracting a few inches here and there on the qtr panels and bumper covers shouldn't make that much of a difference in weight.

The NSX is shorter than the FD.

I know this for a fact when I had both in the garage next to each other. Both were lowered where there is no wheel gap.

The NSX is lower by almost 2."
 
You have think about it in terms of volume, not sheet. 3 inches difference across a 170 inches is a big difference in mass. I know it's not exact, but you get the idea. Nonetheless, the Rx7 is smaller with a smaller car. It's like 240sx weight only 2700-2800lbs. Smaller engine and cheaper materials in the interior.
 
People can quote all the magazines and stats they want and tell me over and over what a great car and terrific value it is. I have driven several C6 Vettes including the C6 ZO6 but they just don't do it for me. (BTW I have owned 3 previous generation Corvettes)

I could have a C6 Vette or C6 ZO6 any time, any day I want but don't want one at all. Don't want a Viper either.

I'd rather have a 355, 360,another NSX or two, S2000, R8, Triumph TR4, Porsche Turbo (or C2 or C4S), or a 60's E-Type to name a few.

I would rather have the 355, 360, R8, or Porsche CS4, GT3, GT2 or turbo myself. I just can't afford any of those.
 
It’s hard to believe that a NSX could out run a Z06 in a straight line……Turbo or no turbo.

Comparing my NSX to Z06, I could argue that the handling is better, the NSX seems to exude super car feel, but when it comes down to speed in a straight line and even on a course: the Z06 wins.

The Z06 deserves respect and awe but maybe not on the NSX site.:tongue:
 
It’s hard to believe that a NSX could out run a Z06 in a straight line……Turbo or no turbo.

Comparing my NSX to Z06, I could argue that the handling is better, the NSX seems to exude super car feel, but when it comes down to speed in a straight line and even on a course: the Z06 wins.

The Z06 deserves respect and awe but maybe not on the NSX site.:tongue:

Gene,

Are you coming to our local nsx gathering this Thursday? Its at South Coast Acura, around 8PM


Regards
 
It’s hard to believe that a NSX could out run a Z06 in a straight line……Turbo or no turbo.

I disagree. A 418 whp NSX is no slouch and he had a 300+ lb weight advantage. It's easy to imagine an FI NSX doing 0-60 in the high 3s (stock NA2s can do 0-60 in the high 4s) and a high 11s 1/4 mile (stock NA2s come in in the mid-low 13s)--essentially the same times the ZO6 puts up.
 
It’s hard to believe that a NSX could out run a Z06 in a straight line……Turbo or no turbo.

Comparing my NSX to Z06, I could argue that the handling is better, the NSX seems to exude super car feel, but when it comes down to speed in a straight line and even on a course: the Z06 wins.

The Z06 deserves respect and awe but maybe not on the NSX site.:tongue:


Best post of the whole lot.
 
I disagree. A 418 whp NSX is no slouch and he had a 300+ lb weight advantage. It's easy to imagine an FI NSX doing 0-60 in the high 3s (stock NA2s can do 0-60 in the high 4s) and a high 11s 1/4 mile (stock NA2s come in in the mid-low 13s)--essentially the same times the ZO6 puts up.

I think the curbweight of the c6 zo6 is the same or a little less than a stock nsx.High 4's,you must mean maybe 4.999999:wink: The best na 1/4 mile times we have seen are from a rare 3.2 liter coupe at 12.5.Turbo times are all over the map but streetable factor x cars and others are deep in the 10's.So yes a turbo nsx driven correctly could keep pace with a stock zo6,but the torque, ah the torque of the vette can really make up for any hp advantage a boosted nsx might have on the street.Meaning any yutz in a zo6 can go fast stoplight to stoplight.I'm sure the average nsx driver has messed up his rpm/launch, ctutch slip ,dance on more than one occasion:wink: :tongue:
 
I think the curbweight of the c6 zo6 is the same or a little less than a stock nsx.High 4's,you must mean maybe 4.999999:wink: The best na 1/4 mile times we have seen are from a rare 3.2 liter coupe at 12.5.Turbo times are all over the map but streetable factor x cars and others are deep in the 10's.So yes a turbo nsx driven correctly could keep pace with a stock zo6,but the torque, ah the torque of the vette can really make up for any hp advantage a boosted nsx might have on the street.Meaning any yutz in a zo6 can go fast stoplight to stoplight.I'm sure the average nsx driver has messed up his rpm/launch, ctutch slip ,dance on more than one occasion:wink: :tongue:

True but the torque curve of the NSX is still much flatter in the higher RPMs than the LS7. The NSX's accelration efficiency doesn't drop off with RPM as opposed to the LS7. The NSX will get beat stoplight to stoplight but the 1/4 mile times could be fairly similar.

Also, Scorp's NSX was around 2800 lbs and had no gas in the tank. The curb weight of the ZO6 is ~3100 lbs. The weight advantage was at least 300 lbs.

And many, many tests have shown NA2 NSXs running 4.7-4.9 0-60 times over the years. Shaving a second off with a turbo isn't very hard to imagine.
 
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