New Forced Induction, New Numbers

[Elite]

Wow, it looks like an 04 Mustang Cobra with an upgraded Whipple we just finished up:wink:

I agree, doesn't look like a NSX graph. With a turbo large enough to make 714whp on 11 creeping to 13 pounds on an NSX, the lag would be worse. Not to mention the TQ #'s. Guessing some sort of V8 that he turboed. FX is probably right on^^, took off the factory supercharger, and added a Turbo(He didn't afterall say what car has "New Forced Induction). Also why his tranny took the abuse. But in any case, those are the kind of #'s I like to see, congrats.

BTW, is your wastegate on the collector itself? Going to stick with the Tial 46, or go with another manufacturer, and go larger?

**Edit - After looking again, who knows, I'm too tired right now to analyze the sheets more. If it is indeed on his NSX, then a HUGE CONGRATS!. But if strapped correctly on a DD dyno, it's hard to spin..(his reasoning for not going to redline). I guess we'll know at some point.

 

[MiamieNeSeX]

I agree, doesn't look like a NSX graph. With a turbo large enough to make 714whp on 11 creeping to 13 pounds on an NSX, the lag would be worse. Not to mention the TQ #'s. Guessing some sort of V8 that he turboed. FX is probably right on^^, took off the factory supercharger, and added a Turbo. Also why his tranny took the abuse. But in any case, those are the kind of #'s I like to see, congrats.

BTW, is your wastegate on the collector itself? Going to stick with the Tial 46, or go with another manufacturer, and go larger?

I dont think my builder added 2 more cylinders to my block, so at last check its still the 6 cylinder I started with.The so called "Lag" is definatly there although plenty of HP/TQ before the lag to keep you happy. Regarding the wastegate it is on the collector,but I have not put much thought into whichon e or what size I will need.


Armando

 

[Elite]

If it is on your NSX then what was the rational behind such a large turbo? Have something large enough to make the #'s you want on pump gas? Or choose something with a little more lag, to take some stress off the drivetrain? Just curious.

I have my choice in sizing already, but can always change it out. Mine will not make that kind of power at those boost levels, but considering I'm a C16 fiend, I plan on running more boost.

PS: Are you up this late, or awake this early?

 

[MiamieNeSeX]

Decesions were based on numerous things, drivability being one of them. I am up early usually at 5 wether I need to or not.I get more work done before 8 than I do the rest of the day:biggrin:


Armando

 

[Sspeed]

I think someone is reading the dyno sheet wrong. If you look at the graph
it has 255 hp at 3psi of boost, a little past 3500 rpm. At 0 psi of boost it has about 190 hp. As for the engine, it is .20 over 9.0 Compression. And as for the turbo, yes it is big, but it is also a 3.0 litre engine. And it is not as big as the stuff we run on Supra's. Plus a nsx head will flow quite a bit more than a supra head. The power band will be raised to 8400 as soon as we put a 50mm
w/g. We really didn't give the w/g alot of thought when built the kit. And for those who still don't beleive I will give you the turbo specs, precsion PT 70
with a GTQ wheel and a .68 rear. If you look at the compressor maps, the turbo is more than capable of making that kind of power. As for the tranny,
we have only done to dyno passes, and a 5 min ride home. So its anyones
guess at this point. I suspect thought that as long as it doesn't hook hard,
and Armando dosen't manhandle the thing it will probably live for a while.

 

[Sspeed]

We havent had a chance to tweek it, Maybe we will try a .58 rear, that should bring the turbo in sooner and shouldn't sacrafice too much on the top.
It is still a work in process, and I guess we will see what we come up with.

 

[Esprit1]

Wow, it looks like an 04 Mustang Cobra with an upgraded Whipple we just finished up:wink:

If you guys don't give me at least 750hp-650ft/lb to the wheels, I'll Carbon Fiber you both on the hood of my ..............:biggrin:

Very very impressive numbers. I sincerely doubt I'll keep my driver's licence very long with those HP.......

 

[Decon]

very very cool Armando, pix pix pix please. Methanol injection now thats cool :biggrin:

 

[AU_NSX]

See you at NSXPO.:biggrin: 714 HP 520 TQ 13 Lbs boost.

Armando

Suddenly I feel very inadequate again...

Congratulations Armando...

 

[BioBanker]

What is shocking to me is that if you go back 18 months and compare to what we have around today, there is no comparison!

With the Lovefab & FX guys putting out what appear to be higher performance and totally streetable turbo's, and with the odd wacko like Armando putting down obscene numbers with a more extreme system, it is looking to me like Turbo's could be the way to go now. At minimum, they're an option that should be considered. Even 12 months ago, for almost everyone the logical choice was the tried and true CTSC (although the autorotor may not be "tried and true" yet).

It seems that many hurdles have been overcome during the last 12 months.

 

[Cody@LoveFab]

Thanks Armando, now Im not sure Ill be able to keep up with our base turbo. I might have to jump up to a GT42R...though Ill wait to recoupe some of the engine-build expense before biting that $2500 bullet.

Empty wallet is right!

Congrats and nice #'s!
Video or ban! :biggrin:

 

[lowellhigh79]

I agree, doesn't look like a NSX graph. With a turbo large enough to make 714whp on 11 creeping to 13 pounds on an NSX, the lag would be worse. Not to mention the TQ #'s. Guessing some sort of V8 that he turboed. FX is probably right on^^, took off the factory supercharger, and added a Turbo(He didn't afterall say what car has "New Forced Induction). Also why his tranny took the abuse. But in any case, those are the kind of #'s I like to see, congrats.

BTW, is your wastegate on the collector itself? Going to stick with the Tial 46, or go with another manufacturer, and go larger?

**Edit - After looking again, who knows, I'm too tired right now to analyze the sheets more. If it is indeed on his NSX, then a HUGE CONGRATS!. But if strapped correctly on a DD dyno, it's hard to spin..(his reasoning for not going to redline). I guess we'll know at some point.

Torque curve doesn't drop on the top end
170 hp/275 ft lbs @2800 on 0.5 psi (already WAYmore torque than a stock NSX's max torque )
255 whp/320 ft lbs @ 3700 on 2 psi

Modified NSX heads and the most efficient turbos imaginable won't give you those numbers without some form of additional oxygen supplementation. Nice numbers overall.

Regards,

Danny

 

[NetViper]

Torque curve doesn't drop on the top end
170 hp/275 ft lbs @2800 on 0.5 psi (already WAYmore torque than a stock NSX's max torque )
255 whp/320 ft lbs @ 3700 on 2 psi

Modified NSX heads and the most efficient turbos imaginable won't give you those numbers without some form of additional oxygen supplementation. Nice numbers overall.

Regards,

Danny

So are you calling BS Danny?

I was wondering how the car with a low comp motor could produce higher numbers than a stock NSX without any boost at Low RPM.

Could you have a twin-turbo setup with a really small turbo to spool up faster while the big turbo doesn't spool until 5,000 RPM?

I know my car with the low-comp motor made worse numbers than a stock NSX until the boost came on.

 

[John McCain Racing]

What is shocking to me is that if you go back 18 months and compare to what we have around today, there is no comparison!

With the Lovefab & FX guys putting out what appear to be higher performance and totally streetable turbo's, and with the odd wacko like Armando putting down obscene numbers with a more extreme system, it is looking to me like Turbo's could be the way to go now. At minimum, they're an option that should be considered. Even 12 months ago, for almost everyone the logical choice was the tried and true CTSC (although the autorotor may not be "tried and true" yet).

It seems that many hurdles have been overcome during the last 12 months.

Do you remember 5 years ago when the "way to go" was a Basch Boost SC? I'm glad I didn't get on that wagon! My first trip to Sebring I was the only NSX that didn't have one installed. I think now I might be the only one that hasn't grenaded my motor! :biggrin:

 

[BioBanker]

^^Yup, but I think that there is an important difference now: an increased ability to tune the car properly.

 

[John McCain Racing]

^^Yup, but I think that there is an important difference now: an increased ability to tune the car properly.

AGREED! Glad I've waited till now to seriously start looking at FI. :wink:

 

[btcog82]

methanol injection, now how does that work for the NSX?

and how hard is that to maintain?

 

[zahntech]

Nice numbers, but that is what you get with a BIG ASS TURBO. Which it appears you have. Looks like you don't see full boost till 5,200-5,500. That only leaves 3 grand of fun to be had. It works for some people and not for others. My S2000 makes full boost by 3400 rpm and I get to go all the way to 9100. That is 5,700 of fun area and I will take that ALL DAY LONG instead of having a dyno queen. AREA UNDER THE CURVE = Drivable street car. And 402@11 psi is fine by me.

But then again no boost = 255 whp??? I think not!!! Something is fishy here.

Can't wait to hear more about your set-up. VERY IMPRESSIVE! VERY EXCITING!!!!

J. R.

Why do you bash his set up, then say you want to hear more about it?

 

[Factor X Motorsports]

I dont think my builder added 2 more cylinders to my block, so at last check its still the 6 cylinder I started with.The so called "Lag" is definatly there although plenty of HP/TQ before the lag to keep you happy. Regarding the wastegate it is on the collector,but I have not put much thought into whichon e or what size I will need.


Armando

From an initial glance it completely looks like the power of a modified Cobra, however after comparing our old twin set-up they look very similar Ask you builder if he likes the HKS GT2, they come in both a 50 and 60. We ran that in our past twin set-up with great success. Congrats on the numbers and make sure you double check your alignment!

 

[Sspeed]

Torque curve doesn't drop on the top end
170 hp/275 ft lbs @2800 on 0.5 psi (already WAYmore torque than a stock NSX's max torque )
255 whp/320 ft lbs @ 3700 on 2 psi

Modified NSX heads and the most efficient turbos imaginable won't give you those numbers without some form of additional oxygen supplementation. Nice numbers overall.

Regards,

Danny

It made about 255 HP at 4 psi and as for the rpm, it is a little closer to 4100
rpm. The dyno is calculating rpm against wheel speed since there really is no
good way to get a tach singal on the coil. So even though is shows on the sheet 3700, you have to take into account as the tire grows it through rpm number off a little bit. But as for the power and torque numbers, they are
very much so correct, If you read up on the dyno dynamics dyno you will see
that they have an eddie current system, and are quite accurate. The car ran
up to about 7700 rpm, and the reason we didnt turn it any higher is because
the waste gate is too small and I was afraid of boost creep. Please don't forget that we are also running metanol injection on this car and that helps
the horse power and the torque. When Armando gets back we will dyno the car again, and I will print a sheet with hp & tq numers every 100 rpm.

 

[NetViper]

It made about 255 HP at 4 psi and as for the rpm, it is a little closer to 4100
rpm. The dyno is calculating rpm against wheel speed since there really is no
good way to get a tach singal on the coil. So even though is shows on the sheet 3700, you have to take into account as the tire grows it through rpm number off a little bit. But as for the power and torque numbers, they are
very much so correct, If you read up on the dyno dynamics dyno you will see
that they have an eddie current system, and are quite accurate. The car ran
up to about 7700 rpm, and the reason we didnt turn it any higher is because
the waste gate is too small and I was afraid of boost creep. Please don't forget that we are also running metanol injection on this car and that helps
the horse power and the torque. When Armando gets back we will dyno the car again, and I will print a sheet with hp & tq numers every 100 rpm.

Since you obviously work there, how about some pix and videos of the next run. It must sounds amazing!!!!

 

[Sspeed]

Since you obviously work there, how about some pix and videos of the next run. It must sounds amazing!!!!

No problem, I would have had some yesterday, but we were in such a rush
to get him on the road to Orlando today that we only made 2 passes. I
will post video as soon as we put it back up.
Frank

 

[BioBanker]

Good god.

1) Stuff a monster turbo in car.
2) Do two godforsaken dyno pulls.
3) Climb in car with suitcases.
4) Proceed to Orlando.

I hope poor Armando isnt hitchhiking holding an Orlando sign as I type this.

Seems like a high risk drive to me.

 

[Factor X Motorsports]

It made about 255 HP at 4 psi and as for the rpm, it is a little closer to 4100
rpm. The dyno is calculating rpm against wheel speed since there really is no
good way to get a tach singal on the coil. So even though is shows on the sheet 3700, you have to take into account as the tire grows it through rpm number off a little bit. But as for the power and torque numbers, they are
very much so correct, If you read up on the dyno dynamics dyno you will see
that they have an eddie current system, and are quite accurate. The car ran
up to about 7700 rpm, and the reason we didnt turn it any higher is because
the waste gate is too small and I was afraid of boost creep. Please don't forget that we are also running metanol injection on this car and that helps
the horse power and the torque. When Armando gets back we will dyno the car again, and I will print a sheet with hp & tq numers every 100 rpm.

Good job Frank! Its great to see other tuners having success with this platform.

 

[Sspeed]

We did do only two full pulls, but the drivability is fully tunned. As for stuffing a big turbo in the car, we do that every day, he will be fine, its a street car,
and a trip on the highway to Orlando is just the drive Armando needs.