Infineon High Performance Driving School

Just be careful out there guys. Just came back from Infineon where a brand new, only 3 week old Porsche GT3, lost it on turn 8 and totalled his car with an instructor in the passenger seat. Both guys are safe but the car was pretty much destroyed from what I can see. Wish I had a camera with me.

There were 4 run groups. Novice, Novice/Intermediate, Intermediate/Advanced and Instructors. The driver was in the Novice/Intermediate group.

I have to admit that Infineon is alot more challenging than Thunderhill and Laguna Seca. Had alot of fun but somewhat limited track time. Since we fell behind due to the crash, every run group had to give up about 5 minutes.
 
Litespeeds said:
Just be careful out there guys. Just came back from Infineon where a brand new, only 3 week old Porsche GT3, lost it on turn 8 and totalled his car with an instructor in the passenger seat. Both guys are safe but the car was pretty much destroyed from what I can see. Wish I had a camera with me.

There were 4 run groups. Novice, Novice/Intermediate, Intermediate/Advanced and Instructors. The driver was in the Novice/Intermediate group.

I have to admit that Infineon is alot more challenging than Thunderhill and Laguna Seca. Had alot of fun but somewhat limited track time. Since we fell behind due to the crash, every run group had to give up about 5 minutes.
Click to expand...


That funny.

I am one of the PCACDS instructors. I have yesterdays roster.
There were only two NSX's in attendance. Mine and Al's.

I specifically look for another NSX. Maybe you were driving something other than an nsx?

The GT3 Overcooked it on his warm up lap. He was in the Low Intermediate group. The car was 2 days old.

Later,
Don
 
I checked with Al Terpak who was at the track regarding the incident. And it appears from the debrief that this was a "stupid" (my words) student mistake driven by adrenaline and overconfidence.

The incident happended on the first lap: "... the guy was driving way too fast for the warm up lap and over his head [skip] ...... It's amazing how some drivers ignore the pleas of the event steward to do a warm up lap before really putting down the power and going for it on the track [skip] ....." Don seems to confirm this as well.

A novice/low intermediate driver with such predisposition would have had an incident/spin at any track. Infineon and Laguna Seca can extract a higher price if it happens at the wrong turn. But I have also seen a novice student with an instructor in M3 flip over at THill at turn 1 first lap of the first session in the mroning. One student of mine who had prior track experience (intermediate) spun at turn 2 at Infineon on R compound after the first lap; again first session in the morning on cold tires and he knew it going in as we discussed it! The sad reality is that there is always one or two such students at every track event.

If it's any solace to those starting to worry now, I was one such student at my first track event back in 1999 with the BMWCCA-GGC. Full of confidence going in, yet spun three times in one day :eek: But fortunately it was as THill and I stayed on pavement all three times even with that nice 360 coming out of turn 7 while executing an inside pass at full throttle :biggrin: My excuse? In part it was a communciation failure with the instructor who told me to gas it :rolleyes: Little did I know that he drove a 4 cylnder banger Supra GT with no hp/torque and he hadn't been in an NSX before :eek: :tongue: They sure told me to go home for the rest of the day, and rightfully so :frown: But I did go back and instruct for them a few years later :tongue:

While I haven't had a spin since then, though have caught a few before they started, I have been in a few deusy ones with Steve at THill :biggrin: and poor Al keeps spinning out trying to prove that he is still young at heart and can chase down black NSXs ........... :tongue:

YMMV
 
nsxnut said:
That funny.

I am one of the PCACDS instructors. I have yesterdays roster.
There were only two NSX's in attendance. Mine and Al's.

I specifically look for another NSX. Maybe you were driving something other than an nsx?

The GT3 Overcooked it on his warm up lap. He was in the Low Intermediate group. The car was 2 days old.

Later,
Don
Click to expand...

litespeeds bought a P-car as a track car. So he's not tracking his NSX.
 
I picked up a Porsche 944 so I can slowly start to convert it to a possible Spec944 car. My main reason is I need to improve on my driving skills 1st and foremost before I get into faster cars. I have tracked my NSX about maybe 8 times and one of them was at Laguna Seca where Hrant was my instructor with the PCACDS. Great instructor and very informative. Thanks.

The 944 is a very easy car to drive and as my skills improve, I will appreciate the NSX that much more. I do want to do a big brake upgrade for the NSX before I start tracking it again. The last time I drove the NSX at Thunderhill, I almost ran out of road down the back straights as my brake pedal went to the floor. That was a little scary. I have Motul600 brake fluid, Hawk HPS pads and cross-drilled/slotted stock sized rotors.

I never talked to the owner of the GT3 but heard from others so my information is probably not as accurate as Don or Hrants. All I know was it was the 2nd session for the novice/intermediate group and it closed down the track early so we ended up eating lunch early. Didn't see the car until after lunch where it was sitting all alone in a corner waiting for a flatbed to tow it away. My heart went out for the owner as I can just slightly imagine what he is going through.
 
The one message that everyone shoudl pick up from this. It is not the track, it is not the car, but the driver that makes the difference how things turn out. That may sound pedantic and obvious, but what it really means is that if you go on to the track thinking "I am going to drive really fast and prove how good I am" you will probabaly prove the opposite. If you go on to the track thinking "I am going to see how clean I can make my lines at each corner and not push teh car to the limit" you will find your self never having an incident and making better lap times than if you push for speed.

We all know the adrenaline rush that from the speed and driving on the edge is addictive. That thrill was part of the reason many of bought these cars. But after many track events, I have found I feel a lot better at the end of the day when I have nailed perfectly every corner and usually spend the last turn or two on the tail of the guy that blew by me on the last straight.

So go in with the right attitude and you will be fine. The only other advice I can give you with the NSX is if you find yourself in trouble because you were not paying attention, step on teh gas, not the brake and ride it out. Once you are off the pavement, then clutch and brake together.

tk
 
Novice
1) smooth (Tariq)
2) LitoG
3) 02#154
4) Norcalwhite
5) EK
6) Binh
7) NSX-Tuner
8) bnesse
9) RonNRaiders
10) DonH (from lists)
11) David B
12.) RavnNSX - Novice
13.) BarryL -2 - Novice


Intermediate
1) Allen Shim
2) RichA
3) Racer NSX
4) DonD
5) BarryL -1 - Intermediate


Advanced
1) SFNSXguy
2) LIKE007
3) Kip Olson
4) 2slow2speed
5) Mark/Trevor A

Spectating (chickens)
1.) tk - wife said 'no money'
2.) Ashik
3.) randomharmony


Hoping to Instruct
1.) KenjiMR
2.) titaniumdave

Lost Interest
1) Litespeeds - smack talk too offensive
2) spartan2-3: Have to work - Bummer

And no pressure right .........

2.) yaynsx- Novice
3.) L5-S1NSX
4.) Dan H. - Novice

12) Daves_X

18) Butts - Advanced - schedule conflict looming

20) NSFRBLX - Novice

24) juejaimon - Novice

27) NChhotu - Novice
28) KIngels - Advanced
29) MRamsey -1 - Novice
30) MRasmey -2 - Novice

34) white93nsx - Advanced
35) fredc - novice

39) 03 raw nsx - Novice (issues with start time)

41) NSXGOD (pending SC kit) - Advanced
42) Alex Vizcarra (interested) - Advanced
43) Greg Hardee (pending mechanical) - Advanced

47) Tony A
 
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tk said:
The one message that everyone shoudl pick up from this. It is not the track, it is not the car, but the driver that makes the difference how things turn out. That may sound pedantic and obvious, but what it really means is that if you go on to the track thinking "I am going to drive really fast and prove how good I am" you will probabaly prove the opposite. If you go on to the track thinking "I am going to see how clean I can make my lines at each corner and not push teh car to the limit" you will find your self never having an incident and making better lap times than if you push for speed.

We all know the adrenaline rush that from the speed and driving on the edge is addictive. That thrill was part of the reason many of bought these cars. But after many track events, I have found I feel a lot better at the end of the day when I have nailed perfectly every corner and usually spend the last turn or two on the tail of the guy that blew by me on the last straight.

So go in with the right attitude and you will be fine. The only other advice I can give you with the NSX is if you find yourself in trouble because you were not paying attention, step on teh gas, not the brake and ride it out. Once you are off the pavement, then clutch and brake together.

tk
Click to expand...


Yes I agree,

so for all the Novice including me. my first time around, I was going to show my street cred abilities....but thats not what I did, I was lucky enough to have Peter has my instructor (one of the editor of NSXCA quarterly magazine).

I really wanted to start from basics, and learn my stock NSX abilities and slightly, I mean slightly feel its limits, I felt the rear give a bit. And the rest was the line, when to break and how much to break and feel my NSX take a turn. …………IT WAS ONE OF THE BEST FEELING:smile: ….

You will and do the speed on the straights maybe faster then you would on the streets/FWY….and as you feel more comfortable, the turns will be a bit faster after a while and feel that bite and hold on:smile: ….


I have been told for Novice, start with stock, because your NSX abilities in its stock form is FAR better then yours will be on the tracks….once your abilities and TIME ON THE TRACK betters, then you can start to up the MODS and start the learning curve again. that is why I plan on bringing my NA NSX.

BUT man WHAT a rush:wink: ……Kip said it to me once…………..it allows you to THINK of NOTHING else but you, your NSX and the TRACK.

and after the event, you will not be able to sleep for days.....:biggrin:
 
After talking to the GT3 owner last night, I believe a lack of experience with Infineon (first time) and the car (purchased early last month) contributed to
the incident. The owner has 7 - 10 days of experience in the past couple
of years at other tracks with a 911 turbo. He's pretty conscious about
safety, and certainly doesn't have the "I'm faster" attitude. And
as Litespeed mentioned, the incident occured in the second session.

Infineon is certainly not a forgiving track. My wife practically gave up on
HPDE after the incident at NSXPO 2003, where an NSX lost it in the same
turn right in front of her.

Thankfully the GT3 owner and the instructor walked away without a scratch
(the car has factory rollbar + harness). I heard the wife already authorized the purchase of a replacement...

Be safe & have fun.
 
Turns 8 and 8a are the twisties where you feel you can open it up a little faster but if you take just a slightly wrong line on 8a and going a little bit faster than you should, you might pay for it the hard way.

I didn't know that at NSXPO, that is where the NSX lost it too.

The turns that gave me some problems after the first couple of sessions were between turn 1 and turn 2, turn 8, and sometimes turn 9 if I carry too much speed before the turn.

I got a ride with Andrew who was my instructor in his all stock 996 and I was really impressed with how smooth he handled his car. His lines were pretty much right on and his speed was amazing for street tires. He came into some turns so fast that it past my threshold of believability. He even told me that he is just an ok driver. When we were out on the track, Hank Watts passed us like we were standing still in his insanely fast Porsche track car. Through the turns, he was only on 3 wheels. Wish I could have caught that with a camcorder. UNBELIEVABLE! :eek:
 
litoG said:
Yes I agree,

so for all the Novice including me. my first time around, I was going to show my street cred abilities....but thats not what I did, I was lucky enough to have Peter has my instructor (one of the editor of NSXCA quarterly magazine).

I really wanted to start from basics, and learn my stock NSX abilities and slightly, I mean slightly feel its limits, I felt the rear give a bit. And the rest was the line, when to break and how much to break and feel my NSX take a turn. …………IT WAS ONE OF THE BEST FEELING:smile: ….

You will and do the speed on the straights maybe faster then you would on the streets/FWY….and as you feel more comfortable, the turns will be a bit faster after a while and feel that bite and hold on:smile: ….


I have been told for Novice, start with stock, because your NSX abilities in its stock form is FAR better then yours will be on the tracks….once your abilities and TIME ON THE TRACK betters, then you can start to up the MODS and start the learning curve again. that is why I plan on bringing my NA NSX.

BUT man WHAT a rush:wink: ……Kip said it to me once…………..it allows you to THINK of NOTHING else but you, your NSX and the TRACK.

and after the event, you will not be able to sleep for days.....:biggrin:
Click to expand...
Your first day on the track the best thing to do is concentrate on learning the line, being smooth. Being smooth is Smooth turning from entry apex to track out. Smooth excelleration and smooth breaking. Being fluid.

For most turns you will want to work on using the entire track. That is say entering a left turn on the far right side. Apexing the turn and than tracking all the way back out to the right side. Your turn in should be one smooth arc. This takes some practice. A good instructor will help you with all of this and more.

Your first day out you won't be exploring the limits of your car. You will however develop a greater appreciation of your car.

Your instructor will most likely take you out in his car in the advanced group. I do.
I do this not to try and show the student up but to point out the track and maybe any turns that mite be giving them difficulty. I find this to usually be very helpful.

When you get back to work or meet up with your friends... The very first question will be "How fast did you go? " Although sears point has a drag strip, we won't be using it. This is not a nascar oval or Indianapolis. Sears point is a road course. I usually get a dumb look if I tell them my top speed is around 100 or so. "is that all". I have to tell them that there are a lot of turns and it is not a super speedway. Oh yea…
Don’t worry… After a track event I am grinning ear to ear for a few days. You will be to.

Take your first day easy learn to be smooth and learn the track and you will be fine.. and have a blast.

Later,
Don
 
Litespeeds said:
Turns 8 and 8a are the twisties where you feel you can open it up a little faster but if you take just a slightly wrong line on 8a and going a little bit faster than you should, you might pay for it the hard way.

I didn't know that at NSXPO, that is where the NSX lost it too.

The turns that gave me some problems after the first couple of sessions were between turn 1 and turn 2, turn 8, and sometimes turn 9 if I carry too much speed before the turn.

I got a ride with Andrew who was my instructor in his all stock 996 and I was really impressed with how smooth he handled his car. His lines were pretty much right on and his speed was amazing for street tires. He came into some turns so fast that it past my threshold of believability. He even told me that he is just an ok driver. When we were out on the track, Hank Watts passed us like we were standing still in his insanely fast Porsche track car. Through the turns, he was only on 3 wheels. Wish I could have caught that with a camcorder. UNBELIEVABLE! :eek:
Click to expand...

Infineon requires discipline and respect, before a student is allowed to go at speed the instructor needs to make sure that the student knows the line and is not chasing apexes (that's what causes most accidents at Infineon or for that matter at the techincal section of most tracks).

FYI: The line for a Mid Engine vs Rear Engine, Front engine RWD wlll be slightly different at Infineon, hopefully you realize that.

The way that you rotate a car like a GT3 vs NSX vs 996Turbo vs 944 will be different at some turns, all of that only comes with experience and knowledge of the handling dynamics of the different cars.

I would not to be too surprised if the GT3 driver got himself into trouble because he was driving the GT3 the same way that he drove his Turbo. 4WD masks a lot of driver errors :eek: and the GT3 is a handful because it understeers at corner entry before becoming a bit more neutral/oversteer prone afterwards. It's a car that really requires skill and confidence to drive fast and it also needs to be properly aligned as well (factory alignment settings were crap!)

BTW: A stock NSX at Infineon should be able to do ok with street tires and a good driver, the biggest drawback would be the lack of braking capacity going into turn 4, 7 and 11.

Hopefully you will change your mind and join us at Infineon with your NSX, maybe you will learn some new things about your NSX and Infineon.
 
Last edited:
litoG said:
and after the event, you will not be able to sleep for days.....:biggrin:
Click to expand...

Actually, I find that I have difficulty sleeping the night before the event, just because of nervousness. At the end of the track day, I am so exhausted that I sleep like a baby. :)

-CiaoBoy
 
CiaoBoy said:
Actually, I find that I have difficulty sleeping the night before the event, just because of nervousness. At the end of the track day, I am so exhausted that I sleep like a baby. :)

-CiaoBoy
Click to expand...

I feel the same like you but I am very anxious before the event and not really as much nervous as I use to be. I remembered the very first few track events that I went to, my heart was pumping when I got to the track and really started to go when I was on the hot pit waiting to head out onto the track. :eek: :cool:
 
This might be a bit off-topic but given that some folks might be apprehensive about the event at Infineon because of the report of the GT3 that crashed I'm posting a quick follow up.

Checked with some friends who know the driver of the GT3 that crashed, he used to drive a 993 Turbo (not a 996 Turbo as I originally thought) and he had some track experience with the 993 Turbo, that is still a 4WD car, a completely different car to drive when compared to the 996GT3.

So the take home from the unfortunate accident is to take it really easy and to learn the track with the car that you are driving at the time, learn how the car behaves at speeds that don't place anyone on the track in danger including yourself (in other words it's ok to be slow and methodical when learning the track and learning how to drive the car at the track).
 
2slow2speed said:
This might be a bit off-topic but

So the take home from the unfortunate accident is to take it really easy and to learn the track with the car that you are driving at the time, learn how the car behaves at speeds that don't place anyone on the track in danger including yourself (in other words it's ok to be slow and methodical when learning the track and learning how to drive the car at the track).
Click to expand...

Maybe even more off topic...

That is solid advice. I mean, think about it. Anything you do fast now, you did slowly when you first did it. Changing your oil... Driving a manual transmission... even just tying your shoes. I'm thinking that the first thing I'm going to learn real fast on this is the "wave by". :redface:

J
 
02#154 said:
Maybe even more off topic...

That is solid advice. I mean, think about it. Anything you do fast now, you did slowly when you first did it. Changing your oil... Driving a manual transmission... even just tying your shoes. I'm thinking that the first thing I'm going to learn real fast on this is the "wave by". :redface:

J
Click to expand...


I'm with you on that J!!! :biggrin:
 
getting ready baby

my Red NA NSX getting ready for the track with Driving Ambitions NEW SHOP and the owner...........tada... Shad from Comptech.

Shad is almost done with tuning my Black CTSC NSX with AEM EMS !!! I have found my tuner performance NSX Shop and all around good guy for life. Thanks Shad.

[end of the track day, I am so exhausted that I sleep like a baby.]
-CiaoBoy

your right, I remember my track from Dali at NV, I was the first their at 7 am, and I was so freaking tired :redface: at end of the day that I played it safe and I didn't even do the last run at 4:30.


[Your first day on the track the best thing to do is concentrate on learning the line, being smooth. Being smooth is Smooth turning from entry apex to track out. Smooth acceleration and smooth breaking. Being fluid.]

Don

yes, one of the first thing Peter taught me at the NSXPO 06, don't be a JERK, meaning don't Jerk your wheel, abrupt breaking and hitting the gas at a turn......be fluid with your moves will keep your car more balance on the weight transfers and keep your rubbers down.:tongue:


Safe and Fun, on the Dali event, It was with :eek: Zo6, Lotus, F360, racespecCRX, race spec Civic, Cobra, race Viper, S2000 and many other and a lot of NSX…………………..so yes, SAFE, I started at the back pack…was fine with me, I took it slow……….and had sooooo much fun, again I gave respect to my NSX..and drove it home and not on back of a tow truck

see ya all there

and YOU STILL have time to sign up :smile: and hang with me at the back of the Pack, I will let you pass me :wink:

and/ or take a ride in on the the fastest NSX out there and test your Neck holding skills.

Lito
 
Last edited:
Novice
1) smooth (Tariq)
2) LitoG
3) 02#154
4) Norcalwhite
5) EK
6) Binh
7) NSX-Tuner
8) bnesse
9) RonNRaiders
10) DonH (from lists)
11) David B
12.) RavnNSX - Novice
13.) BarryL -2 - Novice


Intermediate
1) Allen Shim
2) RichA
3) Racer NSX
4) DonD
5) BarryL -1 - Intermediate
6) CiaoBoy


Advanced
1) SFNSXguy
2) LIKE007
3) Kip Olson
4) 2slow2speed
5) Mark/Trevor A

Spectating (chickens)
1.) tk - wife said 'no money'
2.) Ashik
3.) randomharmony


Hoping to Instruct
1.) KenjiMR
2.) titaniumdave

Lost Interest
1) Litespeeds - smack talk too offensive
2) spartan2-3: Have to work - Bummer

And no pressure right .........

2.) yaynsx- Novice
3.) L5-S1NSX
4.) Dan H. - Novice

12) Daves_X

18) Butts - Advanced - schedule conflict looming

20) NSFRBLX - Novice

24) juejaimon - Novice

27) NChhotu - Novice
28) KIngels - Advanced
29) MRamsey -1 - Novice
30) MRasmey -2 - Novice

34) white93nsx - Advanced
35) fredc - novice

39) 03 raw nsx - Novice (issues with start time)

41) NSXGOD (pending SC kit) - Advanced
42) Alex Vizcarra (interested) - Advanced
43) Greg Hardee (pending mechanical) - Advanced

47) Tony A
 
Registration is now open.

http://www.trackmasters-racing.com/html/abouteventssp7-21-06.html

Novice
1) smooth (Tariq)
2) LitoG
3) 02#154
4) Norcalwhite
5) EK
6) Binh
7) NSX-Tuner
8) bnesse
9) RonNRaiders
10) DonH (from lists)
11) David B
12.) RavnNSX - Novice
13.) BarryL -2 - Novice


Intermediate
1) Allen Shim
2) RichA
3) Racer NSX
4) DonD
5) BarryL -1
6) CiaoBoy
7) KIngels

Advanced
1) SFNSXguy
2) LIKE007
3) Kip Olson
4) 2slow2speed
5) Mark/Trevor A

Spectating (chickens)
1.) tk - wife said 'no money'
2.) Ashik
3.) randomharmony


Hoping to Instruct
1.) KenjiMR
2.) titaniumdave

Lost Interest
1) Litespeeds - smack talk too offensive
2) spartan2-3: Have to work - Bummer

And no pressure right .........

2.) yaynsx- Novice
3.) L5-S1NSX
4.) Dan H. - Novice

12) Daves_X

18) Butts - Advanced - schedule conflict looming

20) NSFRBLX - Novice

24) juejaimon - Novice

27) NChhotu - Novice

29) MRamsey -1 - Novice
30) MRasmey -2 - Novice

34) white93nsx - Advanced
35) fredc - novice

39) 03 raw nsx - Novice (issues with start time)

41) NSXGOD (pending SC kit) - Advanced
42) Alex Vizcarra (interested) - Advanced
43) Greg Hardee (pending mechanical) - Advanced

47) Tony A
 

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