HP Turbo Installation Started

Jim,

That was actually done by the previous owner to fit headers to the car - apparently first generation nsx headers required this modification, and it is a common practice.

Ahhh. That explains why it was all covered in road grime.

Who do you have lined up for the tuning? Hell, you should just fly the HP guy (Jimmy?) out here as he seems to have ccathey's car dialed. If he can squeeze 500+hp out yours like cc's car, I'll be a believer. Come on. Go for it. You know you want too...:wink:
 
Ahhh. That explains why it was all covered in road grime.

Who do you have lined up for the tuning? Hell, you should just fly the HP guy (Jimmy?) out here as he seems to have ccathey's car dialed. If he can squeeze 500+hp out yours like cc's car, I'll be a believer. Come on. Go for it. You know you want too...:wink:

I would like them to send me an AEM EMS computer before they send me a tuner :rolleyes:
 
Some updates... I had the car towed 44 miles from Niguel Motors to Church Automotive in Wilmington, CA. Once it arrived we put it on one of his dynapack dynos, and tried to tune the car:

DSC00330.jpg


DSC00331.jpg


DSC00332.jpg


DSC00336.jpg


White smoke, in significant quantity, started coming from the car's exhaust... at first it was thought this could be burn off from the new parts, but it didn't lessen after 5 minutes at 3k, and, while the car was running slightly rich, it wasn't running near rich enough to create this level of smoke. We turned the car off, checked the oil coloration, and found it was fine (and was like new, given it was changed the day before), we then checked the oil level, which seemed fine, and tried another 5 minutes at 3k rpm. Still no change, lots of white smoke, but now black oil was seen dripping from the muffler connections:

DSC00340.jpg


So I had the car towed 44 miles back to Niguel Motors, and I had to pay $100 for an hour of tuning, which resulted in zero actual tuning.

DSC00344.jpg


DSC00347.jpg


DSC00348.jpg


Once the car arrived at Niguel Motors we checked the drain pipe, and found the oil was draining as intended, and the oil returning to the pan was clean (the oil coming from the exhaust was black) - we then checked the throttle body, and found no oil. Here is a picture of the exhaust connection:

DSC00355.jpg


DSC00356.jpg


There was a great deal of oil not only dripping from the exhaust connections, but also spraying over the heatshield, etc.:

DSC00354.jpg


DSC00357.jpg


Next we removed the downpipe, and found this... these pictures are pretty self explanatory:

DSC00358.jpg


DSC00359.jpg


It would appear the turbocharger unit is leaking oil - there is also some shaft play, which is deeply concerning (especially considering this is a 0-mile turbo).

Here is a picture looking into the exhaust:

exhaust.jpg


and the tail pipe:

DSC00362.jpg


Dripping oil from the exhaust connections:

DSC00363.jpg


The engine was fully operational when it went in for this turbo installation, and when it was hooked up to the tuner's computer it was producing perfect vacuum, etc. - there is what appears to be a small amount of antifreeze in the tail pipe, along with all of the oil - the car's antifreeze is fine, uncontaminated, so we believe the source may be the aftercooler system (eg there may be a leak somewhere internal to the cooler), we're trying to determine if the aftercooler unit will need to be replaced, along with the turbo.

Right now I am exhausted (no pun intended); I am out x2 44 mile flatbed tow truck trips, I paid $100 to see a car smoke while bolted onto a dynapack, and I wasted both my time, and the time of my tuner. Immediatly following the dynapack "session" I placed a call to HP performance, and spoke with their receptionist. As Jimmy said last week, he is currently out of the office, but I was told by the receptionist I would receive a call back from Nathan "when he comes back from lunch, in around 5 minutes". I am typing this 4 hours after I was told I would get a call back in "5 minutes" from the receptionist... still no call :frown:
 
Last edited:
Sorry to see the trouble you're going through. I hope everything works out
 
John, I feel for you! I was at Ramon's when they picked it up, I hope they step forward and make the product right. :frown: I'll see you Sunday at the BBQ
 
John shaft play in the turbo is NOT a good sign.... wasn't this a brand new turbo? Was it damaged somehow? Does the impeller end (not the turbine) look like there is any damage?
 
John shaft play in the turbo is NOT a good sign.... wasn't this a brand new turbo? Was it damaged somehow? Does the impeller end (not the turbine) look like there is any damage?

Dave, this is a brand new kit, the turbocharger is new... it was originally shipped without the exhaust housing attached (this part was ceramic coated, and arrived later), without a protective collar around the blades - the turbo appeared to be fine, despite this method of shipping, so, after contacting HP, we installed it in the car.
 
Damn dude, that's heartbreaking. :mad: After all the crap you've been through with this system and now this? I'd be out of my brain with frustration. Good luck and I hope it's nothing more major than oil in the exhaust...
 
Not to be mean or anything, but that really sucks. Id be SOOO Pissed off. So much time and money wasted. I hope you get everything fixed John and get her runnin right again!:smile:
 
I don't know too much about these systems (yet) but I hope none of that oil is capable from finding it's way from the turbine side into the compressor...:confused:
 
scorp, hang in there. Thse things sometimes happen when you do stuff not intended to be done to our babies. Not justifing anything, but HOPEFULLY HP is watching and will fix this situation. The last thing you want to do is get into a cussin match. I do think that a refund is in order for the tow, DEFINETLY should get a new turbo and have it nex day aired to you at no cost. HANG IN THERE! Still seems to be a good price for a kit despite the problems.
 
I am assuming that you have a coolant line attached to the turbo. If this is the case, you probably only need to replace the turbo itself. It is probably leaking antifreeze and oil all from the turbo itself. Good luck.

Tim
 
Definitely...HP really needs to take care of you! Things definitely happen, especially when you are dealing with such an intricate experience. With my experiences of FI from my old 350z, it is never really a guarantee when dealing with the aftermarket setups.

I hope they take care of you and that the leakdown test show that everything is a-ok. Good luck man and hope that it all works out in the end. I completely understand your frustration (particularly the towing).

ravi
 
I am assuming that you have a coolant line attached to the turbo. If this is the case, you probably only need to replace the turbo itself. It is probably leaking antifreeze and oil all from the turbo itself. Good luck.

Tim

Tim,

The turbocharger is not watercooled, so the presence of a minute level of green fluid in the exhaust tip is concerning... the car's antifreeze has no oil in it, and the engine was strong prior to the install, with perhaps 30 total minutes of run time with the turbo kit installed (under the supervision of an AEM tuner), so the hope is this is some kind of coating on one of the components (unlikely), or it is perhaps coming from the aftercooler arrangement, which has a mixture of antifreeze and water running through it. We're trying to devise a method to pressure test the aftercooler.
 
I'm sure that HP will correct any problems. I'll head over there and talk to Nathan about it today.
I know the delays are frustrating, I had to wait to get my AEM because it was when AEM was reworking to the new style. Thankfully I didn't have any turbo issues though.
You won't be dissapointed when everything is said and done. Just hang in there, before long you'll be complaining that you wore out your rear tires smoking Vipers.
Craig
 
While this really sucks and is more frustrating than most people on here can imagine, it kind of comes with the territory.
You should have somewhat, in the back of your head planned for SOMETHING to happen as it always does.

It really doesn’t seem like a big deal, the oil leaking in the turbo should be able to be fixed by rebuilding the thing pretty quick, 2-3 hours max. With out measuring the play in the shaft, who is to say it is an issue, ALL turbo’s have play in the shaft.
FWIW, if you received the turbo unassembled and put it together yourselves, it may in fact be something you and your tuner are responsible for and not HP.

As far as the coolant in the exhaust line, you say that there is no oil in the coolant, but is there coolant in the oil? You may have to drain the pan to find out 100%. Also look in the TB for coolant as it may be being introduced into the air stream from the IC, and then blown thru the engine and out the exhaust. This would be an HP issue if they made the IC.

If it was my car I would not worry about this or the oil, fix the oil and see what happens with the coolant issue as it sounds like it is a small amount.

Also just a question, why was the car not started with the factory injectors and ECU, with the intercooler to throttle body hose disconnected prior to tuning.
This simple test is done to make sure all of the oiling and coolant systems are working, and there are no exhaust or fluid leaks. Seems like this would have found this issue weeks ago and given the delay on the EMS, give you time to address the issues.
Since the charged air would not have been introduced to the TB, you would have been safe to drive the car LIGHTLY, making sure all functions worked.

don’t worry Scorp, these things happen, and while in the middle of them it seems like big deal, when they are done it seems like it rally wasn’t.
 
I'm with s4 on this one - in that you should take a deep breath, assess the situation, and then work it out.

I know you're frustrated. Provided hp is an ethical vendor, your persistance will pay off.
 
I'm sure that HP will correct any problems. I'll head over there and talk to Nathan about it today. You won't be dissapointed when everything is said and done. Just hang in there, before long you'll be complaining that you wore out your rear tires smoking Vipers.
Craig

Craig, thank you for your help, traction problems are the kind I would like to have, I haven't been able to even drive the car for 4+ weeks, then, when the AEM finally arrives, the car is smoking :redface:

While this really sucks and is more frustrating than most people on here can imagine, it kind of comes with the territory.
You should have somewhat, in the back of your head planned for SOMETHING to happen as it always does.

For sure, this is the outlook I have; I understand what the risks of this project are, and I understand items will arise, but the intention of this thread is to chronicle the process of my installation of this turbo kit on my car - I would say Friday's events are a significant event in this process, which, by date stamps, is entering its 5th week. I intend to post updates when they occur; other members can view the progress of my project, and formulate opinions based on my experience.

FWIW, if you received the turbo unassembled and put it together yourselves, it may in fact be something you and your tuner are responsible for and not HP.

The shop has been dealing with Volvo and NSX for 20+ years - they know their way around turbochargers. The car was brought to Church automotive for a tune, where Shawn Church himself bolted the car to one of his dynos, and watched the car smoke and spray oil. All of the directions in the installation were followed, and the kit was installed on a healthy nsx, and sent to one of Southern California's premier AEM tuners.

If it was my car I would not worry about this or the oil, fix the oil and see what happens with the coolant issue as it sounds like it is a small amount.

This is the direction we're going to take, I tried to get in contact with HP when the problem arose, by calling their phone number at 11:30AM PST, and was unable to get a response. Now its the weekend, so nothing in this regard can be done until Monday, unless Craig gets in touch with them. We would also like to devise some kind of method for pressure testing the aftercooler arrangement.

Also just a question, why was the car not started with the factory injectors and ECU, with the intercooler to throttle body hose disconnected prior to tuning.

The car had a Gruppe M supercharger, so it had larger-sized injectors, and an ECU with modified timings - running the car with these items for a prolonged period of time, without the additional air from a forced induction system, doesn't seem beneficial to the motor. The car was started at the shop that did the installation with the turbo installed, without the AEM, to move around the shop, parking spaces, etc. prior to the AEM - in these cases it ran incredibly rich, with a large degree of white smoke, and even black smoke, given the supercharger ECU was tuned for 370cc injectors, and the HP kit includes 750cc injectors. The AEM arrived on Thursday, was put in the car, and a baseline was loaded - the car instantly idled fine, and ran much better, but was not run for any period of time. At 8AM the following morning the car was strapped onto a tow truck, and sent to the tuner.

don’t worry Scorp, these things happen, and while in the middle of them it seems like big deal, when they are done it seems like it rally wasn’t.

I am hopeful this will be the situation, the car has just been down for so long that when I was under the impression I would have it fully tuned and ready to drive on Friday, and instead wasted several hours, and a few hundred dollars, to see it smoke on a dynapack, I was rather dissapointed. Still, I am optimistic HP will help resolve this issue, hopefully sooner, rather than later, as the car is once again sitting 5 feet in the air in one of the bays at the shop, after they thought they were done with it.
 
Take off the inlet and outlet pipe to the compressor of the turbo. If there is alot of oil there, it is usually indicative of excessive oil pressure to the turbo, or poor drain, or the bearings are wiped out, ruining the oil seal rings as well.
You mentioned that the turbo was shipped to without the turbine housing. If the turbo wasnt packed well and the turbine wheel was banging around in the box, this could easily bend the shaft and throw it out of balance. This will wipe out the bearings and the turbine wheel will start contacting the housing in no time. In your pictures, the clearance seems alot greater on one side, showing that the bearing is gone. Remove the turbo and take off the turbine housing. Look at the turbine blades for any contact. I dont know if it is just the pictures, but the shiny spots on the blades concerns me. They appear to be deformed from something hitting it.
 
Back
Top