Speaking of engines...
Did I hear it right that MB is rumored to be leaving McLaren and going to Brawn?
Did I hear it right that MB is rumored to be leaving McLaren and going to Brawn?
F1 2009 megathread
- Thread starter NSXrebel
- Start date
Yes. Way to Go Brawn!! He is a master strategist,and the car did better than I expected at Monza. Hamiltons shunt was odd,the car seemed to spin on a curbing that everyone was running over all day
Yes. Way to Go Brawn!! He is a master strategist,and the car did better than I expected at Monza. Hamiltons shunt was odd,the car seemed to spin on a curbing that everyone was running over all day
I replayed it a few times and it looks like he just stepped on the gas too hard and a little early coming out of the turn and broke grip on the rears. Just pushing a little too hard IMO.
My dream team might be:
Brawn GP with MB engines, Vettel and Barrichello as drivers.
It might turn out to be as good as the Prost + Senna years at McLaren.
Brawn GP with MB engines, Vettel and Barrichello as drivers.
It might turn out to be as good as the Prost + Senna years at McLaren.
Maybe not. I don't think either are quite that good.
Re: Mercedes "going to" Brawn?
If MB buys in at Brawn, they could theoretically maintain their relationship with McLaren, could they not? However, besides Liegate of 2007, there are other business developments in both companies that are straining that relationship, so it may well come apart for reasons besides Brawn ownership.
None of this sounds probable in the normal world, (whatever that is), but as weird and seamy as F-1 is, having MB with their fingers in 2 big pies would not surprise me.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Someone, come in here and straighten it all out. :wink:
The way I understand it is that MB wants a controlling interest in an F-1 team and they couldn't get more than 40% of McLaren stock. They are rumored to want 75% of Brawn, according to James Allen. Ross originally said he didn't want to buy the team as a privateer and that the team, essentially, has always been for sale. And now, with some big sponsors in the wings.
If MB buys in at Brawn, they could theoretically maintain their relationship with McLaren, could they not? However, besides Liegate of 2007, there are other business developments in both companies that are straining that relationship, so it may well come apart for reasons besides Brawn ownership.
None of this sounds probable in the normal world, (whatever that is), but as weird and seamy as F-1 is, having MB with their fingers in 2 big pies would not surprise me.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Someone, come in here and straighten it all out. :wink:
Re: Mercedes "going to" Brawn?
mmm.. warm like apple pie.. and 2 fingers
:biggrin:
The way I understand it is that MB wants a controlling interest in an F-1 team and they couldn't get more than 40% of McLaren stock. They are rumored to want 75% of Brawn, according to James Allen. Ross originally said he didn't want to buy the team as a privateer and that the team, essentially, has always been for sale. And now, with some big sponsors in the wings.
If MB buys in at Brawn, they could theoretically maintain their relationship with McLaren, could they not? However, besides Liegate of 2007, there are other business developments in both companies that are straining that relationship, so it may well come apart for reasons besides Brawn ownership.
None of this sounds probable in the normal world, (whatever that is), but as weird and seamy as F-1 is, having MB with their fingers in 2 big pies would not surprise me.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents. Someone, come in here and straighten it all out. :wink:
mmm.. warm like apple pie.. and 2 fingers
:biggrin:
Renault handed a 2 year suspended-ban.
http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5574176,00.html
RENAULT SLAPPED WITH TWO-YEAR SUSPENDED BAN
Monday 21st September 2009
Renault have been slapped with a two-year suspended disqualification for race-fixing at last year's Singapore GP.
The team faced the FIA's World Motor Sport Council in Paris earlier today, spending just 90 minutes in front of the 26-man Council, which includes FIA President Max Mosley and F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone.
Renault, prior to the hearing, revealed that they wouldn't dispute the charges which related to then team boss Flavio Briatore and director of engineering Pat Symonds allegedly ordering Nelson Piquet Jr to crash in order to help his team-mate Fernando Alonso to the race win.
The charges meant Renault could face either a fine, suspension or even expulsion from Formula One, however, after deliberating the Council opted for a suspended punishment.
"The World Motor Sport Council finds that Renault F1 team members Flavio Briatore, Pat Symonds and Nelson Piquet Jr. conspired to cause a deliberate crash at the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix," said a FIA statement.
"The World Motor Sport Council considers Renault F1's breaches relating to the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix to be of unparalleled severity. Renault F1's breaches not only compromised the integrity of the sport but also endangered the lives of spectators, officials, other competitors and Nelson Piquet Jr. himself.
"The World Motor Sport Council considers that offences of this severity merit permanent disqualification from the FIA Formula One World Championship.
"However, having regard to the points in mitigation mentioned above and in particular the steps taken by Renault F1 to identify and address the failings within its team and condemn the actions of the individuals involved, the WMSC has decided to suspend Renault F1's disqualification until the end of the 2011 season.
"The World Motor Sport Council will only activate this disqualification if Renault F1 is found guilty of a comparable breach during that time.
In addition the World Motor Sport Council notes Renault F1's apology and agrees that the team should pay the costs of the investigation. It also accepts the offer of a significant contribution to the FIA's safety work."
But while Renault escaped quite lightly, the same cannot be said of Briatore. Although the Council has no jurisdication over the Italian, they have banned others in Formula One from working with him, including drivers.
The reasoning behind Briatore's severe penalty is the fact that he continued to protest his innocence even in the face of evidence to the contrary.
"For an unlimited period, the FIA does not intend to sanction any International Event, Championship, Cup, Trophy, Challenge or Series involving Mr. Briatore in any capacity whatsoever, or grant any license to any Team or other entity engaging Mr. Briatore in any capacity whatsoever.
"It also hereby instructs all officials present at FIA-sanctioned events not to permit Mr. Briatore access to any areas under the FIA's jurisdiction.
"Furthermore, it does not intend to renew any Superlicence granted to any driver who is associated (through a management contract or otherwise) with Mr. Briatore, or any entity or individual associated with Mr. Briatore.
"In determining that such instructions should be applicable for an unlimited period, the World Motor Sport Council has had regard not only to the severity of the breach in which Mr. Briatore was complicit but also to his actions in continuing to deny his participation in the breach despite all the evidence."
http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5574176,00.html
RENAULT SLAPPED WITH TWO-YEAR SUSPENDED BAN
Monday 21st September 2009
Renault have been slapped with a two-year suspended disqualification for race-fixing at last year's Singapore GP.
The team faced the FIA's World Motor Sport Council in Paris earlier today, spending just 90 minutes in front of the 26-man Council, which includes FIA President Max Mosley and F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone.
Renault, prior to the hearing, revealed that they wouldn't dispute the charges which related to then team boss Flavio Briatore and director of engineering Pat Symonds allegedly ordering Nelson Piquet Jr to crash in order to help his team-mate Fernando Alonso to the race win.
The charges meant Renault could face either a fine, suspension or even expulsion from Formula One, however, after deliberating the Council opted for a suspended punishment.
"The World Motor Sport Council finds that Renault F1 team members Flavio Briatore, Pat Symonds and Nelson Piquet Jr. conspired to cause a deliberate crash at the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix," said a FIA statement.
"The World Motor Sport Council considers Renault F1's breaches relating to the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix to be of unparalleled severity. Renault F1's breaches not only compromised the integrity of the sport but also endangered the lives of spectators, officials, other competitors and Nelson Piquet Jr. himself.
"The World Motor Sport Council considers that offences of this severity merit permanent disqualification from the FIA Formula One World Championship.
"However, having regard to the points in mitigation mentioned above and in particular the steps taken by Renault F1 to identify and address the failings within its team and condemn the actions of the individuals involved, the WMSC has decided to suspend Renault F1's disqualification until the end of the 2011 season.
"The World Motor Sport Council will only activate this disqualification if Renault F1 is found guilty of a comparable breach during that time.
In addition the World Motor Sport Council notes Renault F1's apology and agrees that the team should pay the costs of the investigation. It also accepts the offer of a significant contribution to the FIA's safety work."
But while Renault escaped quite lightly, the same cannot be said of Briatore. Although the Council has no jurisdication over the Italian, they have banned others in Formula One from working with him, including drivers.
The reasoning behind Briatore's severe penalty is the fact that he continued to protest his innocence even in the face of evidence to the contrary.
"For an unlimited period, the FIA does not intend to sanction any International Event, Championship, Cup, Trophy, Challenge or Series involving Mr. Briatore in any capacity whatsoever, or grant any license to any Team or other entity engaging Mr. Briatore in any capacity whatsoever.
"It also hereby instructs all officials present at FIA-sanctioned events not to permit Mr. Briatore access to any areas under the FIA's jurisdiction.
"Furthermore, it does not intend to renew any Superlicence granted to any driver who is associated (through a management contract or otherwise) with Mr. Briatore, or any entity or individual associated with Mr. Briatore.
"In determining that such instructions should be applicable for an unlimited period, the World Motor Sport Council has had regard not only to the severity of the breach in which Mr. Briatore was complicit but also to his actions in continuing to deny his participation in the breach despite all the evidence."
Re: No more of Flav's fingers in the pies !!!
^^^^^^^^^
Off the top of my head, this sounds fair enough; the real bad guys (Flav and Symonds) are gone and punished appropriately. Peaky? well, he blew the whistle, so he gets some credit even if he and old daddy-o tried some blackmail. And Renault can stay, so another team on the grid; good for the FIA and Bernie. :smile:
But Alfonso walks? That was bogus; I'm sure they had enough circumstantial evidence to at least slap his hand. He would not just blindly accept such a long shot fuel strategy, so he knew, even if he was not directly involved. But he's the golden boy for many, so I guess he gets the "MS pass" for the week. 
^^^^^^^^^
Off the top of my head, this sounds fair enough; the real bad guys (Flav and Symonds) are gone and punished appropriately. Peaky? well, he blew the whistle, so he gets some credit even if he and old daddy-o tried some blackmail. And Renault can stay, so another team on the grid; good for the FIA and Bernie. :smile:
But Alfonso walks?
That was bogus; I'm sure they had enough circumstantial evidence to at least slap his hand. He would not just blindly accept such a long shot fuel strategy, so he knew, even if he was not directly involved. But he's the golden boy for many, so I guess he gets the "MS pass" for the week. Re: No more of Flav's fingers in the pies !!!
Alonso is the typhoid Mary of F1.
Briatores punishment really surprises me considering his relationship with Bernie.
There must have been some very hard evidence which by the way should have been revealed in an investigation after that race.
So who investigates the investigators ?
But Alfonso walks?
Alonso is the typhoid Mary of F1.
Briatores punishment really surprises me considering his relationship with Bernie.
There must have been some very hard evidence which by the way should have been revealed in an investigation after that race.
So who investigates the investigators ?
Re: It was bigger than even Bernie could finagle
I think there were too many hardcore fans and pundits ready to seriously downgrade F-1's popularity stock if this was not handled in (what at least appears to be) a fair and impartial manner. With Bernie's friend, Spanky, out to get his other friend Flav, and with the F-1 series at risk, there was nothing even Bernie could do.
Less hard evidence was Piquet Sr. saying he told Charlie Whiting last year that something was not right. But Jr. was still hanging on to his job and not saying a word, so Sr. talking was just more speculation, even if it was from dear old dad.
I think there were too many hardcore fans and pundits ready to seriously downgrade F-1's popularity stock if this was not handled in (what at least appears to be) a fair and impartial manner. With Bernie's friend, Spanky, out to get his other friend Flav, and with the F-1 series at risk, there was nothing even Bernie could do.
I think the very hard evidence was tightly held between Peaky, Symonds Flav, Fred and probably a couple of senior engineers. There was speculation, of course, but with the amazing pre-planning involved, the radio transmissions were too cryptic and inconclusive and there was no obvious smoking gun.
Less hard evidence was Piquet Sr. saying he told Charlie Whiting last year that something was not right. But Jr. was still hanging on to his job and not saying a word, so Sr. talking was just more speculation, even if it was from dear old dad.
yeah, this has got to be the strangest year in F1 yet. Matter of fact, the last couple of year's distractions have got to be fodder for a soap opera:
- Mclaren espionage
- Mosley sexing and spanking concentration campers
- Alonso blackmail
- Massa's freak accident
- Honda exit
- ex-Honda ascension
- Jenson's a loser
- Jeson's a winner
- Rubens a loser
- Rubens a winner
- Flava Flav marriage to model
- Flava Flav divorce from F1
- Pat Symonds, respected F1 techie
- Pat Symonds, disrespected F1 douche bag.
- ????
And Alfonso ends up coming out squeaky clean out of everything. And with a likely contract to drive for Fezza to boot.
- Mclaren espionage
- Mosley sexing and spanking concentration campers
- Alonso blackmail
- Massa's freak accident
- Honda exit
- ex-Honda ascension
- Jenson's a loser
- Jeson's a winner
- Rubens a loser
- Rubens a winner
- Flava Flav marriage to model
- Flava Flav divorce from F1
- Pat Symonds, respected F1 techie
- Pat Symonds, disrespected F1 douche bag.
- ????
And Alfonso ends up coming out squeaky clean out of everything. And with a likely contract to drive for Fezza to boot.
This just goes to show how completely out of line the McLaren penalty was? They have data given to them, (which teams have been stealing back and forth for years), and get $100 mil fine. Renault FIXES a race, and gets probation! Since Renault has no way of challenging Ferrari, and they know if they were to fine them as heavily as McLaren, they would probably leave the sport. The Ferrari International Assistance is being as inconsistent as they always have. I also don't think Alonzo was squeaky clean. But where is he going next year?.......... enough said. This tawdry little soap opera goes on.
Renault didn't fix the race, they manipulated the sporting regulations to help one of it's 2 cars be in a position to win the race. I seem to remember Junior spinning out on his own to bring out a caution so he wouldn't go down a lap, and Brian Herta (i believe) lose drive to bring out a caution during an Indy Car race so that Marco Andretti would stay in the lead while low on fuel. And lets not forget John Force during the US Nationals (3 weeks ago) laying down so his team car would advance to the chase (or 4 months ago so his daughter would get the win). Let's not forget Joe Nash of the Seattle Seahawks having trouble with his bad knee when the Buffalo Bills and their 'No huddle' offense was all the rage. None are right, but none are wrong, depending on what one considers "Sportsmanship" and "Big Picture."
Miner
Re: C'mon, how "life threatening" was it?
Most people who complain about Renault getting off bring up the life threatening crash, like there was really a huge risk to fans and workers and not just NPJ. Looks to me that this was a fairly slow speed corner and this spinning crash was not all that hard to do or that big a deal compared to some of the real crashes in other places that have taken place. Yeah, on paper, any crash is bad and especially a deliberate one since it is morally reprehensible, but this place and how it was done, didn't look to me to be all that risky to fans and workers, compared to the risk they are all at all season.
Just my 2 cents. :wink:
Most people who complain about Renault getting off bring up the life threatening crash, like there was really a huge risk to fans and workers and not just NPJ. Looks to me that this was a fairly slow speed corner and this spinning crash was not all that hard to do or that big a deal compared to some of the real crashes in other places that have taken place. Yeah, on paper, any crash is bad and especially a deliberate one since it is morally reprehensible, but this place and how it was done, didn't look to me to be all that risky to fans and workers, compared to the risk they are all at all season.
Just my 2 cents. :wink:
Re: Moving right along
Now that Fred's out of the woods and on his way to a red seat, looks like ball's in Kimi's court for what to do next.
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2009/09/montezemolo-casts-fresh-doubt-on-raikkonens-ferrari-future/
What say ye? Kimster back to McLaren? or off to Ralley? or.......what was the other rumor? Renault? Yeah, I kind of like that seat swap with Fred since the Renault saved mega millions on the crash-gate fiasco. Will likely save a bundle with Flaming Falv going away too. Or does Kimi have some pride and won't drive for a midpack also-ran just for the cashola?
Or will he just buy a few bars around the world and retire?
Or............how about Dancing with the stars? naw, sounds like work.
Now that Fred's out of the woods and on his way to a red seat, looks like ball's in Kimi's court for what to do next.
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2009/09/montezemolo-casts-fresh-doubt-on-raikkonens-ferrari-future/
What say ye? Kimster back to McLaren? or off to Ralley? or.......what was the other rumor? Renault? Yeah, I kind of like that seat swap with Fred since the Renault saved mega millions on the crash-gate fiasco. Will likely save a bundle with Flaming Falv going away too. Or does Kimi have some pride and won't drive for a midpack also-ran just for the cashola?
Or will he just buy a few bars around the world and retire?
Or............how about Dancing with the stars? naw, sounds like work.
Re: C'mon, how "life threatening" was it?
You left out the Williams sisters. :wink:
You left out the Williams sisters. :wink:
Re: No more of Flav's fingers in the pies !!!
Well, you can bet that Piquet probably wont be able to even get a job as a local bus driver!
Well, you can bet that Piquet probably wont be able to even get a job as a local bus driver!
Re: Well maybe Peaky should try out for ...........
"Dancing with the Dorks". It'll prolly be awhile before he settles into being a part-time HPDE instructor and full time gigalo.
Or.......maybe Kip and Shad can put him to work prepping the car. :biggrin:
"Dancing with the Dorks". It'll prolly be awhile before he settles into being a part-time HPDE instructor and full time gigalo.
Or.......maybe Kip and Shad can put him to work prepping the car. :biggrin:
Re: A funny way to make the big announcement
Montezemolo:
Montezemolo:
Who do you guys prefer to win the WDC? I really like both Jenson and Rubinho. Rubens probably has another year or two in F1, so it would be nice for him to have a WDC before he retires, he certainly deserves it after being in MS shadow for so many years. I really wish it were a Honda powered car as opposed to a Mercedes powered Honda car that gave either one and the team the championship. I'll still be happy with either one winning.
Re: Either way is OK with me
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I hope they race each other into the last corner of the last race. I just hope they do it with style and I'm pretty sure they will.
Brawn's got a quality team and they wouldn't stoop to the level of hilarity like Renault is doing with this weekend, now would they? I mean, c'mon; Grosjean crashing in the same way and place as Peaky is just too dang funny. Bet Flav put him up to it?:biggrin::redface::wink:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I hope they race each other into the last corner of the last race. I just hope they do it with style and I'm pretty sure they will.
Brawn's got a quality team and they wouldn't stoop to the level of hilarity like Renault is doing with this weekend, now would they? I mean, c'mon; Grosjean crashing in the same way and place as Peaky is just too dang funny. Bet Flav put him up to it?
:biggrin::redface::wink:
"Jenson, baby, stay cool. Rubens will take care of everything on lap 14. We're in a good position."
:biggrin:
:biggrin:
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