F1 2009 megathread

Liquid said:
How does everyone explain the qualifying spectacle? No rubber on the track? People pushing too hard for those extra tenths? It certainly was odd given that the race was overall so clean.

Amazing drive by Vettel but I have a feeling that in the end, his engine will let him down at some point over the next couple of races. Abysmal drive by Webber. He has really drove incredibly poorly since the shutdown... I wonder what is going on with him? Is his seat in jeopardy at this point?
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I believe it was a combo of wet grass off the track and the pushing to (and past) the limit in qualifying. Run off area pretty bad considering the speeds.

Webber's "race" consisted of putting on softs with minimal fuel and turning a qualifying lap to take away Vettle's deserved triple crown; pole, #1 finish and fastest lap (now Webber's) I lost a lot of respect for Webbo there.

Glock should have ran. Bo-bos dont cut it. Broken legs do. Especially in Japan with Toyota's existence in F1 on the line.
 
lightguy said:
I believe it was a combo of wet grass off the track and the pushing to (and past) the limit in qualifying. Run off area pretty bad considering the speeds.

Webber's "race" consisted of putting on softs with minimal fuel and turning a qualifying lap to take away Vettle's deserved triple crown; pole, #1 finish and fastest lap (now Webber's) I lost a lot of respect for Webbo there.

Glock should have ran. Bo-bos dont cut it. Broken legs do. Especially in Japan with Toyota's existence in F1 on the line.
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so he should just be handed the triple crown?? "Hey Webber, please slow down so Vettel can get the Grand Slam, pretty please?" :confused: :rolleyes:
 
lightguy said:
Glock should have ran. Bo-bos dont cut it. Broken legs do. Especially in Japan with Toyota's existence in F1 on the line.
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We don't know the extent of his injuries, whether he was even cleared to run, whether they had the ability to get a car out there, etc. Regardless, hitting the wall like he did is a little bit more than just a "boo-boo" and we should give him the benefit of the doubt. In my view, all of these guys are incredibly brave and skilled to go out there and constantly push these cars to the razor's edge.
 
Re: Please elaborate

RB was Sunday driving out there... very uninspired performance from him. He certainly hasn't gone after the WDC like you would expect from someone who is likely experiencing his last real shot at it.
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I'd be interested to know what you saw or heard that leads you to believe that Rubens was not giving it his all. Everything I 've seen and heard and the general consensus from everybody who I've listened to is that he is highly motivated and giving it 110%. So, your statement is a bit surprising. Let me know your reasons for this conclusion. Thanks.
 
Re: Did I miss something?

Hrant said:
Agree. I stopped following F1 for some time as it has really become boring irrespective of the hype and scandals - though Brawn coming out with a new diffuser this year and shake the competition motivated me a bit. Bu watching NASCAR go in circles or even the IRL open wheels is more fun. Heck, I had much more fun watching the two Bills duking it out. Goes to show you technology or money is not the key for a good race.

When the personalities are gone from racing, and where the competition is based on who performs a pit stop 1 second less than the other, and the entire field is separated by something like 0.5 second spread ..... where is the racing? No wonder why the commentators keep hinting to FIA that rules for the sake of having rules on the purported premise to slow down the cars do not enhance competition if people can't pass one another. Racing is all about passing in my book. And yes, I may be old school.
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They need to eliminate the new diffuser to get the cars closer together like they intended with the new aero rules. But I'm looking forward to 26 (possibly 28) cars on the grid next year. That should make things interesting.

I just hope that Vettel can drive it home this year and JB breaks under the pressure.
 
Re: Please elaborate

92 white 0650 said:
I'd be interested to know what you saw or heard that leads you to believe that Rubens was not giving it his all. Everything I 've seen and heard and the general consensus from everybody who I've listened to is that he is highly motivated and giving it 110%. So, your statement is a bit surprising. Let me know your reasons for this conclusion. Thanks.
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Sure he says everything right, but looking at the results against his teammate (which presumably is the closest comparison to show what the driver is doing versus what the car is doing) show that he underperformed during the race in my opinion.

He started 6th and finished 7th, losing one spot on the grid. Button started 10th and finished 8th, gaining two spots on the grid. If I'm not mistaken during the race he passed nobody and in fact pressured nobody (despite his radio communication about putting pressure on Kimi, which, in retrospect, was laughable). As an aside, Kimi had an incredible drive when compared against his teammate's results and the fact that F-60 development has ceased with a fairly subpar package overall.

Also Rubens had the 13th fastest lap (Button had 5th fastest), 1.3 seconds off Webber's fastest lap.

I'm not intending to be overly negative about the guy but the drive seemed to lack very much the urgency of someone who has their last real shot at a WDC and needs to greatly outperform their teammate in order to capture it. He drove a very average race, in my opinion, and that's just not good enough for the WDC.
 
Glock should have ran. Bo-bos dont cut it. Broken legs do. Especially in Japan with Toyota's existence in F1 on the line.

The "boo-boo' required 15 stitches, but that was not what kept him out of the car, as I'm sure being the home race for a team that was looking to sack both drivers, he would have driven with the stitches. I heard that if the G_meter in the car records an event over a certain threshold the driver is required to sit out x number of days. Can't find the link. It was a hard hit, into the tires at 165mph? I don't care how tight the belts are, at those speeds the body still moves around quite a bit.

One picture I'll never forget is the one of Zinardi crashing at Eau-rouge, and seeing his chin past the steering wheel. His face was black an blue for weeks after because of the deceleration. These accidents put some incredible strain on the body even if it doesn't show in an MRI or X-ray?

Looks like pirouet PK will be heading to CRASHCAR via the NASCAR truck series. http://www.autoweek.com/article/20091003/F1/910049998 A fitting place for him. He sould thrive in that environment?

I think Jensen will hold on to the championship, but it would be nice to see Barrichello get one before he is pushed out of the sport for being too old at 35? I don't think his comments earlier in the season endeared him to the team? He had a pretty sharp tounge when he thought Jenson was getting special treatment, probably a hold over from the Schumi days at Ferrari.

I also enjoyed seeing Alonso complain to the stewards about other drivers not lifting during the yellowsin qualy, only to find from the data, that he didn't lift also, getting the same penalty. :biggrin:
 
Re: Please elaborate

Liquid said:
Sure he says everything right, but looking at the results against his teammate (which presumably is the closest comparison to show what the driver is doing versus what the car is doing) show that he underperformed during the race in my opinion.

He started 6th and finished 7th, losing one spot on the grid. Button started 10th and finished 8th, gaining two spots on the grid. If I'm not mistaken during the race he passed nobody and in fact pressured nobody (despite his radio communication about putting pressure on Kimi, which, in retrospect, was laughable). As an aside, Kimi had an incredible drive when compared against his teammate's results and the fact that F-60 development has ceased with a fairly subpar package overall.

Also Rubens had the 13th fastest lap (Button had 5th fastest), 1.3 seconds off Webber's fastest lap.

I'm not intending to be overly negative about the guy but the drive seemed to lack very much the urgency of someone who has their last real shot at a WDC and needs to greatly outperform their teammate in order to capture it. He drove a very average race, in my opinion, and that's just not good enough for the WDC.
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Well, I must say, that is the most unique opinion/conclusion I've seen on the web this week. And it leads to the corollary that Rubens is not properly motiviated to win the WDC. Is that it? He's just an on again/off again Kimi type slacker who's pretending to want it? And, just by mere luck, has outperformed Jensen for the entire 2nd half of the season? Looks to me that if anyone needs to outperform their teammate and look like they deserve the WDC, it's Jensen.

This year, more than most, shows that there are many variables to a team's performance besides the driver. Was Hamo just killing time earlier in the season when he was starting and finishing 18th or so? I'm not concluding much from fast lap times or a one race comparison to another driver.

I'd say both Brawn teams missed the setup and the drivers did the best they could. Jensen didn't pass anyone; he was gifted 2 spots thru shear luck when the 2 cars ahead spun. And Rubens lost a spot thru the bad luck of Rosberg's good fortune of pitting just as the safety car was coming out. As you probably know, many have suggested Rosberg should have been penalized because he never would have rejoined that far up the order if he had obeyed the yellow flags and not set a fastest sector time getting back to the pits.

Thanks for bringing it up, this little discussion has led me to conclude that Rubens would look better winning WDC than Jensen. :eek:

Just my 2 cents.
 
Re: Please elaborate

92 white 0650 said:
Well, I must say, that is the most unique opinion/conclusion I've seen on the web this week. And it leads to the corollary that Rubens is not properly motiviated to win the WDC. Is that it? He's just an on again/off again Kimi type slacker who's pretending to want it? And, just by mere luck, has outperformed Jensen for the entire 2nd half of the season? Looks to me that if anyone needs to outperform their teammate and look like they deserve the WDC, it's Jensen.

This year, more than most, shows that there are many variables to a team's performance besides the driver. Was Hamo just killing time earlier in the season when he was starting and finishing 18th or so? I'm not concluding much from fast lap times or a one race comparison to another driver.

I'd say both Brawn teams missed the setup and the drivers did the best they could. Jensen didn't pass anyone; he was gifted 2 spots thru shear luck when the 2 cars ahead spun. And Rubens lost a spot thru the bad luck of Rosberg's good fortune of pitting just as the safety car was coming out. As you probably know, many have suggested Rosberg should have been penalized because he never would have rejoined that far up the order if he had obeyed the yellow flags and not set a fastest sector time getting back to the pits.

Thanks for bringing it up, this little discussion has led me to conclude that Rubens would look better winning WDC than Jensen. :eek:

Just my 2 cents.
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You're forgetting that Barrichello was "gifted" 4 grid places by being the first to be penalized and only lost 1 position on the starting grid. Otherwise he might have came in out of the points. Whatever the case may be, Button has the most wins, and he has the most points at the end of the season, that's all that matters and he'll be WDC.
 
Re: Well, when.......

92 white 0650 said:
are you going to be back in Oxnard? You're coming back, aren't you? I can wait. :wink:
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Not for a while. I might come back for a few days during Christmas/New Years, but I'll be out here for a while, and hopefully the middle east too.
 
Liquid said:
We don't know the extent of his injuries, whether he was even cleared to run, whether they had the ability to get a car out there, etc. Regardless, hitting the wall like he did is a little bit more than just a "boo-boo" and we should give him the benefit of the doubt. In my view, all of these guys are incredibly brave and skilled to go out there and constantly push these cars to the razor's edge.
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The Man's man. Niki Lauda.
http://www.formula1.com/news/interviews/2009/10/10063.html

Q: So why did it happen last year?
NL: Because times have changed. People were different then - and the situation. In the old days before going racing you would have left information at the hotel as to who would be entitled to collect your things, in case you didn’t come back - so big was the risk to fatally crash. Formula One was for men, not lads.

Q: And today?
NL: Today they almost start as toddlers in karting and by the time they are 19 they arrive in Formula One - and most of them don’t have a character yet. The last fatal accident was the one of Ayrton Senna. Today’s cars are safe as tanks so these kids know their way around in the car, but outside (of it) they are what they are according to their age - kids.
 
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NSXrebel said:
so he should just be handed the triple crown?? "Hey Webber, please slow down so Vettel can get the Grand Slam, pretty please?" :confused: :rolleyes:
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No, you wait till the final laps when the track is rubbered in, your low on fuel, come in for the, what; fifth time?, put on the supersofts, and go out and prove what hot s*** you are to save face for screwing the pooch.
While your team-mate who is actually in the hunt and nursing his tires set fast lap moments ago.
Vettle first, Webbo last. Same car.

A real hero.
 
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Re: Webber; test driver.........and hero

Vettle first, Webbo last. Same car.

A real hero.
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Well, that was my first reaction too, but later I found out he just a test driver preparing for the next race. This is why he was stopping so often, like to change the nose when it wasn't damaged.

So, he's probably a hero within the team. :wink:
 
Re: Vettel should be feeling encouraged

for a good result this weekend. Predicted rain is a statistical advantage for him. :wink: But he's crashed out a lot too, so while he's racing away from the struggling cold tire'd Bees, he could still throw it away. :confused: Should be interesting. :tongue:

Oh, and Shawn, did you get the memo that they changed the Monaco weekend? Better change your hotel and dinner reservations. Or........... are you staying on Flavio's yacht? He's not banned from the harbor, is he? :biggrin::biggrin:
 
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Re: Vettel should be feeling encouraged

92 white 0650 said:
Oh, and Shawn, did you get the memo that they changed the Monaco weekend? Better change your hotel and dinner reservations. Or........... are you staying on Flavio's yacht? He's not banned from the harbor, is he? :biggrin::biggrin:
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I'll be staying with Monte. Of course, it may conflict with the 20th Anniversary event of our fav sports car in Japan. If so, then it's a toss up on where me and my entourage will be.

Seriously though, I'm holding my breath on this weekend. Would like to celebrate for Button but my gut is telling me it'll go to the wire.
 
Re: C'mon Shawn.......

I'm holding my breath on this weekend. Would like to celebrate for Button but my gut is telling me it'll go to the wire.
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You're speaking perfect sense when you say you really know it will go down to the wire, so, be honest.............you're not really holding your breath. :rolleyes:

I won't be holding my breath either.............. puckering my a-hole maybe, but not gonna hold my breath. :mad:
 
Yesterday during practice, Peter Windsor made the following comment after noting that all the changes made for 2009 still didn't help the cars pass one another (the others commented that the better drives always found a way): "But F1 is much much more than that [referring to passing] ...."

Can someone decipher what that means? For the most part I find Windsor's insights and grapevine nuggets refreshing but I also hear no so subtle elitist perspective. Perhaps that comes with the F1 territory.

Qualifying should be interesting in the pouring rain!
 
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F' YEAH, RUBINHO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


C'mon Jenson, bring home some points tomorrow!
 

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