F1 2009 megathread

[myhui]

As for MB, I guess it doesn't really matter where it is built, it has a MB logo on it with MB engineers. To me, it make sense since the racing teams they sponsored are in England, but you can make that argument, few will counter argue with you.

MB simply bought the part of Ilmor that was designing the engines.

It was an acquisition of a leading player in the market, instead of home-grown talent, that allowed MB to put their name on the engines.

Honda's F1 engines were designed with home-grown talent.

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: "Ruby, don't take your guns to town"

to quote an old country song.

Anyone think he's publicly complaining about the team? or is he frustrated and just lamenting his bad luck?

Anyone think he's to blame for the starting line stall and subsequent speed limiter engagement? That's twice for him now.

 

[Jetpilot3]

Re: RB and Complaining

How many times did Rubens bounce off another car during the Turkish GP...yet he has the gall to say he's pissed that Jenson has dominated the season thus far?

Wow...me thinks someone needs to retire. He should have retired last year with some credibility and now he's just embarrassing himself. I like him but he's always played second fiddle to other teammates.

Now let's all look at Mark Webber. I knew he had potential but has always been in terrible cars or had the mis-fortune of unreliable cars. Look at his statistics and he's been very un-lucky...perhaps the most un-lucky driver of modern day F1. I'm so happy to see he's driving well in that Red Bull. It would be a nice treat to see him get his first win this season...GO WEBBER!

Jenson is another example of a driver who never had the right car at the right time and was sooooooo written off by the media. Now they are all over his arse with accolades. But one stark reminder of the crap media is now they are saying his success is down to the car and potentially he'll win the most boring championship of the past few years. Got to love the media.

One minute the media loves someone, the next they turn around and stab that person with negative press.

So who thinks Jenson will win Silverstone? I think we'll see Red Bull with either Vettel or Webber up front again. Ferrari will be closer too.

 

[myhui]

Ruben's career stats:

http://www.f1db.com/f1/page/Rubens_Barrichello

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: History made tomorrow

No, I'm not talking about the Jo Bros concert that I'm sure we're all excited about. :tongue: I'm talking about the deadline for 2010 entires (amended or not) and the gauntlett press releases being made by Ferrari, Renault, Bernie, Spanky and the rest of "the gang." Who's gonna be in, who's gonna be out. Both sides have helped write a script like it's the season ending show of Desparate Housewives. Never thought the escalation would get this far.

It sure will be interesting; You feelin' it too? :wink:

Hope it doesn't end in tears and ruin. :frown:

 

[Liquid]

Re: "Ruby, don't take your guns to town"

to quote an old country song.

Anyone think he's publicly complaining about the team? or is he frustrated and just lamenting his bad luck?

Anyone think he's to blame for the starting line stall and subsequent speed limiter engagement? That's twice for him now.

I expected RB to actually beat Jensen to turn one given that JB was on the dirty side of the track. From what I can see, nobody to blame for that poor start except Rubens himself. I'm sure he's very frustrated at finishing at the bottom of the pack with a top 4 car, and it showed in how he raced and was getting into everyone.

I think Silverstone is Jensen's to lose. Vettel is very good but he's just not quite there yet. As the Turkish GP showed, it only takes one tiny little mistake to lose the race.

I also think that one thing that is very clear is that even if you are able to run down the BGP, passing it is another matter entirely. I wasn't at all worried when Vettel was chasing down Jensen because there was no way he was getting past him. Obviously his strategist thought the same and called him in to the pits. I think that is one of the big unheralded advantages in the BGP double diffuser is what it does to the air behind the car.

One thing that I found interesting is how little coverage the marquee names got in this race. Even when RB was down in the bottom 5, there was coverage on him and not Massa who was running pretty strong for Ferrari. Typically Ferrari has gotten the coverage, even if it was "Wow, look at how poorly they're running". Could the obsession with Ferrari be waning?

All in all, a pretty ho-hum race. Glad that JB kept the winning streak going of course. Assuming Rubens retires at the end of the season, who do you guys think will BGP pick up to replace him? Alonso or Hamilton would be awesome, if it is even possible. Beyond that perhaps look to GP2 or Senna?

 

[Juice]

With the Honda connection gone, does Senna really stand out as an option?

I'm just happy to see that JB is proving to the world that I have been correct about him for all these years. I stand vindicated.

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Ruby

Ruben's career stats:

http://www.f1db.com/f1/page/Rubens_Barrichello

How are you interpreting these stats? What do they say to you?

More buzz on Ruby: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8090677.stm

 

[docjohn]

This season has proven to me at least that the car and strategy/tire management are the deciding factor in F1.I say this based soley on the performance of JB vs Hamo.At least the qualifying times of the top ten are getting closer.

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Well, here's the first court case

Max throws the first punch in what may be a legal and publicity brawl that makes the WWE look tame. :frown: He just put Ferrari at the top of the entry list and is essentially backing up Bernie's claim that Ferrari signed a contract to compete through 2012.

Ferrari says NFW. http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns21558.html

 

[Jetpilot3]

I really wonder what will come of this FIA vs. FOTA debacle...

Now Prodrive was excluded off the list which completely surprises me...financial backing (arab) plus Aston Martin (high end marque)...just surprises me.

BrawnGP and 5 others including Ferrari are still not confirmed although appearing on the list as conditional...

Interesting times in F1!:frown:

BTW: My mate Pete was just at the Turkish GP and he said the facility and atmosphere was awful. Empty stands, horrible service vendors, and lack of good transportation. However, he scored me a Brawn GP hat before tons of sponsors are plastered all over it!!!

 

[Liquid]

I was wondering what was going on with Ferrari being at the top of the list, unconditionally. I was also surprised at the list of teams that were accepted in. USF1, yes of course, but Campos and Manor over Prodrive, Lotus, and Lola? I would actually like to see more teams rather than less, but if they do that they'll have to do something to make passing more feasible. Would be great to see a field of 30 or so cars in my opinion, and it would be BEST if those 30 cars were each individual teams rather than the two cars per team setup currently.

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Counter punching

Max throws the first punch

Not lookin' good for any resolution: http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090612175248.shtml

and worse: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8098234.stm

Shawn, you got your team proposal dusted off and ready for due diligence reveiw? You may as well be in line because who knows how far down the list Bernie/Max may need to go. :wink:

 

[Ponyboy]

Sorry, Tedroe. I've been testing setup and qualifying LeMans. Need to rest up for the 24 hours.

Besides I'm joing the FOTA series. Word has it that the one for sure FOTA race will be Silverstone since Donnington has it for the next 17 years.

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Silverstone looking good

James Allen on Ross Brawn:

"......The result (last race) was a more comfortable victory than anyone expected and it gives the team a lot of confidence going into the high speed corners of Silverstone."

But, as Ross points out, Rubens Barrichello is a formidable competitor around the old airfield track and could easily get stop Button making it a British win in the final race at Silverstone.

“Rubens is extremely strong at Silverstone, because of his early career a lot of time was spent here. He seems to fit with the track; he likes it and it suits his driving style. It’s not a track which is particularly sensitive to brakes, for example, which is an area he often finds quite critical on a car. I expect him to go very well this weekend and he is extremely motivated despite the challenge of beating Jenson.

So they are still going at each other then, no team orders?

“We have a sporting meeting before the race and last Sunday they said, ‘Are we still free to race?’ and I said, ‘Yes, but just don’t hit each other.’ I don’t expect them to do a 50-50 overtaking manoeuvre where they put each other at risk, that’s all I ask. I think it helps with the atmosphere inside the team. In terms of the championship, he has a challenge because Jenson is driving exceptionally well and for Rubens to have a chance, Jenson has to start dropping points through DNFs (non-finishes).”

............

What’s in the pipeline?

“We have new front wing endplates for Silverstone and new rear wing, some different chassis settings again which have come from rig work we have done. We’ve got some upgrades over the next few races which should help again.”

Ross is less cautious now than he's been in the past. And he mentioned feeling good about the design to date on next year's car. For the Red cars to save face, they better quit F-1 for real, go start their own series, and exclude Brawn. :tongue:

 

[Jetpilot3]

Friday is looming...:frown:

I don't understand why there can't be 36 cars qualifying for spots on the grid? It happened years ago (before I was born I think) and read it somewhere.

What really puzzles me is how the FIA can attempt to make these changes for 2010 yet all teams presently in F1 signed the Concorde agreement limiting changes. Am I understanding this correctly?

Anyway...Go BRAWN GP!

 

[Ponyboy]

I don't understand why there can't be 36 cars qualifying for spots on the grid? It happened years ago (before I was born I think) and read it somewhere.

You know, I don't think it's an arbituary number and there's some rationale behind it. But for the life of me, I don't know what it is.

F1 Politics. I say bring on the FOTA series and let them compete for my fanship.

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Pit lane space

36 cars....You know, I don't think it's an arbituary number and there's some rationale behind it. But for the life of me, I don't know what it is.

Ya lost me there Shawn-sky. I'm sure there's a good joke in there, but I missed it. Because I'm sure you recall that car grid limitations are set by the # of garages or pit boxes on pit lane. The current F-1 qualifying rules (and entire weekend schedule), wouldn't allow more teams qualifying than the # of garages/bit boxes. This isn't like taking the entire month of May for 40 cars trying to make the Indy show.

Now the breakaway series might run practice/qualifying differently, so maybe they could have 36 cars compete for 26 grid spots. Speaking from my humble racing experience, the bulk of the cost of a team is not the direct expenses of a race weekend; it's all the prep and "Monday to Thursday" work and cost.

Anyway, I like your "roll the dice" attitude with a breakaway series. What have we got to lose? :wink:

 

[BD]

Friday is looming...:frown:

I don't understand why there can't be 36 cars qualifying for spots on the grid? It happened years ago (before I was born I think) and read it somewhere.

What really puzzles me is how the FIA can attempt to make these changes for 2010 yet all teams presently in F1 signed the Concorde agreement limiting changes. Am I understanding this correctly?

Anyway...Go BRAWN GP!

According to some F1 teams and Max, they don't want the "I want to have my own F1 team because I have lots of money, but I don't know what I'm doing" teams.

Back in the days when F1 was relatively cheap to run, they had that many teams or more, and some of them failed to race under the qualifying system. Have that many cars on the tack will cause problems. It's not NASCAR where you can play bumper cars and be tough. Imagine you have a winning car laps the beater teams multiple laps at the end of the race.

Regardless, make sense to me. There is no point of teams racing if they can't even qualify.

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: LeMans to host a breakaway series?

Anyone know how this idea would work?

The ACO (?) that runs the LeMans series has offered to take in what may be the orphaned FOTA or remnants thereof. Sounds good at today's current level of hysteria, but a few questions pop up.

Do they now have at least 80% of the organization needed to run a breakaway series? How would that work if they only have, what, 5 races besides the 24 hours? Would they be able to spool up to get another 10 + venues for a reasonable # of races?

I'm assuming the ACO would run separate races as mixing in with the current LeMans cars who are running much longer races would be too much of a culture change (and safety risk?) for F-1 cars. Would the schedules allow for both series to share the track and run the same weekends? FOTA would probably say no?

Interesting proposition and the FOTA, if they are "down the road" after Friday, will have a lot of tough choices to make. So who knows what they may be forced to accept.

Tougher than old Bernie/Max's choices? Another topic for another day. :wink:

 

[Ponyboy]

Tedroe, there are so many variables that it'll make your head spin. I'm not sure the FOTA is thinking more than just a couple of steps ahead considering their vested interest in the continuance of F1. Check out the FIA version of the whole saga. IMHO, the FOTA isn't asking for anything unreasonable:

- revised budget cap, independently verified and universal
- revised timeline

So the essientials are there just on a longer timeline. Meh, either way it's gonna be IRL vs. CART all over again.

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Heading for the end game

The FOTA better be thinking well ahead because this is the mother of all chess matches and the end game is at hand.

I'm not sure the FOTA is thinking more than just a couple of steps ahead considering their vested interest in the continuance of F1.....IMHO, the FOTA isn't asking for anything unreasonable:

- revised budget cap, independently verified and universal
- revised timeline

So the essientials are there just on a longer timeline. Meh, either way it's gonna be IRL vs. CART all over again.

Couldn't agree more; the FOTA is presenting some good stuff. But the situation is still looking very similar to the American OW showdown and tragedy.

Which is why I was wondering what the FOTA's plan B would be. I guess we all agree that things are bad enough that the FOTA is ready to walk away. But to do so, they must have a plausible Plan B. Now, granted, they should be worried about their unity and how many teams would break away but that's secondary to convincing Max and Bernie that they do have a plan B. They can let Max, Bernie and the world wonder about the collective strength and resolve to walk. But first they have to have a workable Plan B.

Assuming they want to run the same equipment and drivers in the current format on the same types of tracks, they need a huge logistics support organization to materialize out of thin air to put that all on. I don't believe they can get that built up themselves in less than 18 months. Can the ACO change and grow enough to do that for next year? I have not heard any details about how that could work.

Sounds like a bunch of cocktail party BS to me. And if that's all the FOTA has, it's checkmate and Max wins. :frown:

Ya know, this should be a movie some day. Wouldn't make any money, but it would be a fascinating plot for a few of us. :tongue:

Anyway, this is should be a milestone weekend on the track and off.

 

[Jetpilot3]

It looks like a FIA FOTA compromise might be in the works...

"FOTA also suggested extending the deadline for entries through to July 1.

Mosley, though, made it clear that it is unlikely that any changes will be made Concorde Agreement before Friday's deadline for the submission of unconditional entries for next year's Championship.

The letter from Mosley read: "If we start to modify the governance provisions of the 1998 Concorde Agreement, a lengthy discussion will begin. There is no time left for this because we must answer the remaining applicants for 2010 no later than Friday.

"There are elements in your proposals which we may be able to agree to, but we need time to look at them. For example, your ICA proposals would involve changes to the FIA Statutes.

"Our proposal is therefore that all parties agree to accept the 1998 governance provisions by means of an exchange of letters. We can then negotiate a new 2009 Concorde Agreement under the protection of the 1998 arrangement.

"After all, we lived with these for ten years; a few more weeks or months should not cause any difficulty."

On the resources and £40 million budget cap for next season, Mosley urged team accept the proposals which they agreed to.

"We have already offered to accept the report of a reputable auditor backed up by the signature of a main company board member where applicable. Any suspicions of breach would be investigated by a mutually acceptable auditor of suitable standing and any sanctions would be financial under a pre-agreed formula.

"A fundamental problem with the FOTA proposal was the absence of a clear figure. The teams need to know what the constraints are, so do we.

"We therefore propose that you accept the 2010 rules, as published, which we agreed with you last year. If necessary, these can be revised with the above governance procedures in due course."

The letter from Mosley also made it clear that it is now up to FOTA to make the next move in the long, drawn out saga.

"We will shortly send a letter for signature to each team," it added. "If signed and returned, the letter will make the above proposals legally binding and the relevant team's entry unconditional."

link: http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5385810,00.html

 

[92 white 0650]

Re: Glad to see you're a glass 1/2 full kind of guy

Because I do hope a resolution can be reached.

It looks like a FIA FOTA compromise might be in the works...

However, with one day to go, Max is demanding that they sign first and negotiate later. That is, by definition, a "Max wins" headline which I'm not sure FOTA will swallow.

James Allen interviews all parties directly and isn't quite so sure it'll work out real nicely.

With their actions last week, the teams have got themselves into a position where they seem to be suggesting that a deal can only be done if Mosley doesn’t stay in his role. Mosley, for his part, is sticking to his guns.

Who will blink first?

 

[Ponyboy]

Re: Heading for the end game

The FOTA better be thinking well ahead because this is the mother of all chess matches and the end game is at hand.

Oh, I'm sure they have a good plan B. The drivers of FOTA teams are almost begging for another series and they wouldn't do that unless their teams presented them w/ an attractive alternative. I'm just saying not every detail is going to be planned out ahead of time.

If I were a part of the FOTA, I'd schedule races on the same tracks as F1 (except have a couple of damned races in the manufac.'s biggest market) a week before the F1 races. Now, that would piss of Max and Bernie.

Doesn't DHL handle the logistical support for F1 now? Hmmm, what other global shipping company would like to see their name plastered on a break away series?