Dealer put 170 miles on my car

[nsx_parts]

For the record:

nsxparts.com is the one who seemed to feel that $600 in parts was inadequate.

If you were refering to my $3.00 a mile comment, I was just saying the person who took the car got a hell of a deal!

I'm sure he feels the same way about your suggestion for $600 (or less) in service. He (nsxparts.com) is the one who is crying for blood,not you (sjs), yet he is the one who hasn't proposed what he feels is a reasonable alternative for a settlement (let alone any justification for it or why the actual settlement is inadequate, other than noting his own outrage).

Crying for blood? Hardly, here was my post from March 8th -

I am not trying to pick on your comments, or attack you personally; however, I do not think you could justify the amount of damage in your above comments. The NSX is extremely reliable, and the dealer knows it. They must do something to compensate the inexcusable action, but they will set limits. Even with legal rep. RYRY would have very little chance of proving that much to be paid or performed in restitution. If the car had forced induction the tables might tilt a little in more in his favor. I feel a warranty period is in order to protect the interest of the owner.

OTOH, I would have the car taken to another dealer and looked over from every angle! Is there damage on the car? Undercarriage? Etc. Have them pay for a Prepurchase inspection at another dealer. Get the leakdown / etc and compare notes to when the car was purchased. If something is out of spec the offending dealer should address it.

If there is significant damage, can the dealer claim the car was stolen and pass the buck to the employee who took the car? Look at the work order RYRY and be sure you did not sign anything releasing them from responsibility while the car was in their possession.

I wish RYRY the best in this situation.

_____________________________________________________

Feeling a little misunderstood!
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Please visit http://www.nsxparts.com. The best place to buy and sell parts for your NSX.

[This message has been edited by nsxparts.com (edited 08 March 2003).]

[This message has been edited by nsxparts.com (edited 15 March 2003).]

 

[nsx4fun]

I'm sorry, but I disagree with the suggestions of getting some free service out of this dealer, or having the dealer replace the clutch, synchro's etc. If this happened to me, one thing I can say for sure, no matter what I thought of the dealer before this happened, he would never ever get anymore business out of me. I would not want his crew of yahoos touching my property ever again. I go by the rule, of burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice, shame on me. Maybe I'm irrational in this regard, but I know of 2 major corporations that I will never ever do business with again, at least not as long as I have a choice.

 

[nsxtasy]

I think nsxparts.com offers some very reasonable ways of handling the situation.

Regarding nsx4fun's comment, I find it entirely understandable, although I'm not sure I would apply it universally. By all means, if you don't feel comfortable going back to that dealer, then don't (and yes, in that situation, additional free services are a less than satisfactory resolution).

On the other hand, I feel that any business, even a competent and well-managed one, can have a mistake happen, sometimes due to one problem individual or even a freak combination of circumstances. A customer service-oriented business will do whatever they need to do (within reason) to make the situation right. You need to communicate with them so that they understand they did something wrong, and try to reach an accommodation which you can both live with that will keep your business. Many times this is possible. Some times it isn't, in which case you might never set foot there again. I have had many experiences at some merchants where things went wrong and they made it right, and if anything it made me a more loyal customer. I have also had some experiences at other merchants like the one that Meeyatch had, where they essentially said "screw you". As a result, not only did they lose my business, but I took every opportunity to steer others away from them.

Some of the best customer relations I've seen occurred when something went wrong, and the merchant asked ME what I thought was a fair way for them to make it right, and then they complied with my requested redress. Very smart of them.

 

[I'm NSXed]

If I had this happen to me I would write a firm letter to the Service Manager right away. Eplain the facts clearly. Explain your opinions, like 170 miles for a tank of gas in an NSX would take hard driving to get such low gas milage. Explain how there is no noticeable damage to the car visually,was there damage to the paint from the sand?, However, numerous parts, brakes, clutch, etc. have a shortened life span due to this hard driving. Make sure you include your driving habits, that you only 100 miles a month, this is your baby!

Explain what your expectations are, include all expections it's hard to add them later. State in your leter that you require him to responde no later than a week, with his a reply. If you don't get a responce that you like, either write back to him or go over his head. Always include an expected time for a responce.

You must start a paper trail, friend or not.

Personally I don't think a warranty you do you any good, you don't drive the car enough. I would go for cash. You can use it anywhere or anyhow you want.

 

[Jimbo]

The problem with cash is that it's hard to figure out how much you might actually need.

You might think $1K would be enough. But if the tranny went, it might not be.

IMHO, if you asked for the max amount that you think you might need, the amount would be SO large that the dealer would think that you were taking advantage of the situation. I also don't think they would ever agree to a sum, like, oh say $5K.

But I do think it's a good possibility they would take the chance with an extended warranty. And then if you got hit with a $5K repair bill it would be covered.

Just a thought.

-Jim



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1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
1976 Honda Accord 5 spd, 3 door Blue/Blue
1977 Honda Accord - Custom - Under Construction
2003 MINI Cooper S - On Order - All Black
1986 Chevy Suburban
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html

 

[sjs]

People keep suggesting a warranty. Sure, take one because it's better than nothing, but only because some freak thing might fail and hopefully they'll fix it. But as I and others have said, he doesn't drive it enough for a warranty to be meaningful. To understand that you need to understand how the various parts of the car work and how they wear or are damaged.

If you know anything about engines and specifically the NSX then you know that other than things you can detect now with test such as compression and leak-down, it is highly unlikely that any damage was done, and there is little they could have done to generate meaningful "wear". So given a few tests which will likely check out fine, this is not much of a concern.

If the transmission is not making any noise now and shifts normally then nothing was done that will result in it "failing" in the next year or two. Those things are broken or they're not. Even a chipped tooth should be detectable. So a warranty is likely useless on those. However, syncros and clutch are wear items like brake pads, except that they can be severely abused in a brief time, reducing their total life span. But if he only drives the car a couple thousand miles annually then even if they were 50% used up he won't know it for years. So again a warranty is nearly worthless. Similarly the half-shafts which aren’t really thought of as a wear item but can be abused enough to shorten their service life. Less likely in this case unless they spent the day at the drag strip and borrowed some slicks.

 

[Spooler]

LOL, let's make this topic go on forever.

Welp, I guess you may be able to rule out Santa Monica Acura.

Got my car back from dealer after having them check ABS idiot light and low voltage.

They had it 3 days and put 12 miles on er.
Not much but still, who knows if even that was really neccessary. I mean, how many times do you have to go around the block to make sure anti-loc is working lol.

No Questions from me because everything was fine and I have an indestructable clutch anyway (RPS carbon/carbon). And it was cheap $118.00, so I felt OK.

But then, the last words spoken to me from the service writer as we parted were, smirking: "the Tech said that yours goes a lot better than that black supercharged one". I stared at him a moment and then just smiled and got the hell out of there lol.

What the heck, they have to go in every now and then and their gonna drive um. For everyone that has to go threw this, just try to disensitize yourself to it as best you can and take the neccessary precautions before bringing it in.

They had at least 4 NSX's sitting around the service area. The Black supercharged, which was ridiculously over tired, A gorgeous Morroon one, a Supreme 1992 white Twin Turbo(mine lol) and the new model.

I gotta tell ya, I like mine better than the 03.

peace Dave R





[This message has been edited by Spooler (edited 09 March 2003).]

 

[nsxxtreme]

Dave where did you get a clutch for that price?

 

[Spooler]

Sorry bad sentence.

I meant that the service was $118.00 , the clutch was mega $$.

 

[gheba_nsx]

Since you do not drive the car a lot you can ask something like this.

A new car is 77k$, as an average price for new NSX, not all dealer applies the 73k$.

Your car is worth, let's say, 60k$. You have 10'000 miles?

Ok so in 10'000 miles it is 17k$ less, also until now the car costed 1,7 $/mile. I would duble this to add service, gas and tires to their "test drive".

With 170 miles they owe you (3,4 $/mile * 170 mils) 578$ in cash. This is for the pure loss of value and usage costs.

Since (maybe) they abused it I would also trow in the "1 year guarantee" that everybody is talking about. And a free service...

PS: you can ignore this post, I was bored, and i wanted to use the Windows calculator a little!

 

[Acura NsX Pilot]

i think a free secheduled maintaince up to the time when the nsx calls for a new clutch it is in order...and then a new clutch installed would be a just resolution.

 

[addisonrecruiter]

I think some of you are asking for a bit much and taking this too far. I do agree that it was wrong for someone to take your car for a joy ride. But let's face it, it's just a car. Rather than focus on seeing what you are going to get out of the deal, wouldn't it make sense to focus on letting the dealer get to the bottom of it AND figuring out how to stop this from happening in the future. I would have satisfaction in the termination of the employee that took it for a joy ride and for the dealer to create a system for preventing it from happening again. Wouldn't it make sense to lock up the keys at night so that "everyone" at the dealer doesn't have access.

It sounds like you have a good enough relationship with the manager and he will get to the bottom of it. A good dealer is not going to tarnish their reputation over some stupid sales person or lot attendant. At minimum they should offer you a free service and maybe detail it. I don't think you can expect the dealer to "warranty" the car above and beyond the existing manufacturers warranty.

If you don't get satisfaction from the manager, take it to the owner and then to Acura Corporate.

Good luck!!!


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'91 Black/Black

 

[DocL]

Here's my story on something similar:

I had a sililar problem once with my 3000GT Spyder VR-4 that was driven 130 miles while it was in the shop for repair. I immediately noticed when I got in the car that the clutch and tranny felt very strange so I brought it to the attention of the manager. He said there wasn't any visible damage so there was nothing they would do! I made him log into the compter that I stated that the clutch/tranny felt strange when it was returned to me that day. Now, fast foward two years...

I was selling the car and someone flew in from Michigan and gave me a deposit on it. I told the buyer that I was going to take it to the dealership to have them do an inspection on the car to make sure there were no problems with it. All the time since that day I got it back with the "joy ride" miles, the tranny felt strange, but now it was even worse. On the way to dealership, as luck would have it, the tranny completely let go and I couldn't move the car. Ultimately, under warranty, the car got a new ZF 6spd transmission and clutch. I had known all along that there was something wrong with the car. In the end, Mitsubishi ended up paying for the damage that one of their employees had done on my car and he repair bill came out to almost $8,000. I didn't pay one penny for the repair, and the new owner got a car with a new transmission and clutch.

So, I would say that if you can get them to give you an Acura certified, no deductible, extended warranty for three years, you'll make out pretty good in this situation. Unfortulately there's no way to put a dollar value on something that isn't actually broken.

-Good luck.

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by I'm NSXed:
170 miles for a tank of gas in an NSX would take hard driving to get such low gas milage.

Not if the car had only half a tank of gas when it was first dropped off at the dealership.

Originally posted by Spooler:
A gorgeous Morroon one

Is that supposed to be "maroon" (a dark red color that has never been offered from the factory on a North American NSX)? Or are you referring to that new car named after "morons" everywhere, the Nissan Morono?

Originally posted by Dr.Lane:
Mitsubishi ended up paying for the damage that one of their employees had done on my car

Dealerships are independent businesses that operate under franchise agreements with the automobile manufacturer. An employee of a Mitsubishi dealership is not an employee of Mitsubishi.

 

[nsxxtreme]

So, I would say that if you can get them to give you an Acura certified, no deductible, extended warranty for three years, you'll make out pretty good in this situation. Unfortulately there's no way to put a dollar value on something that isn't actually broken.

Probably the best advice given so far.

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by nsxxtreme:
Probably the best advice given so far.

I think a lot of the suggestions being made are reasonable steps to consider. I think sjs's suggestion that they do a compression and leak-down test (and, presumably, resolve any problems uncovered in doing so) was a good one also.

 

[nsxxtreme]

I think there was a lot of great ideas, I just like the DR's the best. It is the only one that really gives you peace of mind. Hopefully if there was any damage done it will fail during the warranty period. I know some others have said the dealership should warranty it, personally I wouldn't want to go back. If something did fail, they may look out for their best interest first. So an Acura warranty allows him to go where he wants to for repairs.


[This message has been edited by nsxxtreme (edited 09 March 2003).]

 

[Spooler]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
Dealerships are independent businesses that operate under franchise agreements with the automobile manufacturer. An employee of a Mitsubishi dealership is not an employee of Mitsubishi.

Maroon , yes that's it. If my spell check worked I wouldn't make such hideous error's

I'm tellin ya, It was maroon with titanium colored 7 spokes. What a great choice of color for what must have been a paint job.
It was so dark red that it looked as though it was bleeding.

Nissan Morono, lol

peace Dave R

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by nsxxtreme:
I think there was a lot of great ideas, I just like the DR's the best. It is the only one that really gives you peace of mind. Hopefully if there was any damage done it will fail during the warranty period. I know some others have said the dealership should warranty it, personally I wouldn't want to go back. If something did fail, they may look out for their best interest first. So an Acura warranty allows him to go where he wants to for repairs.

3 years = ~6k miles for him. If they burned 20k miles off the clutch but it still has 10k in it, what good is the warranty? Answer: ZERO! Likewise the syncros. They should be good for 100k+ so if the joy ride took off an equivalent of 20k of normal driving, he'll never see a nickel under warranty. Does that mean no damage was done? Answer: NO!

Again, unless something is broken and showing symptoms as in Dr. Lanes excellent example of how quickly they can be damaged, then the issue for such a low usage car is wear and tear, and a warranty is useless.

Oh just forget it, I'm clearly wasting my time. Yes, by all means, if it passes a basic inspection and tests then accept a 3 year certified warranty with a smile and everything will be fine, no problem.

 

[snapper]

Completely agree with SJS. A warranty might make a daily driver feel warm and safe. But in this case is meaningless.

I am very surprised that so many here are willing to let the dealer off so cheaply.

What if a thief only stole SOME of the things you care about, or a hacker only took a couple of months salary from your savings. The moron that pulled this stunt is no different.

Here's a story. A friend had his pick-up truck in for service. Just over night. A few days after getting back from the dealer, two detectives showed up at his job. Turns out "somebody" at the dealership used the truck in a robbery.
But hey, they only put a few miles on it.

 

[RyRy210]

Hi everyone, I apologize for not checking this thread more often than I should. Just to clear things up is that I did not have a full tank, but I do remember it not being close to empty.

Also, today I finally had time to inspect in detail the interior of my car. The exterior looks okay. The interior was a mess.

It was extremely dirty, and there were areas on the vinyl parts of my door which were covered in mud. I don't know why I didn't notice that sooner. There were also traces of mud on the driver and passenger floor mats.

I also noticed that the cover underneath the glove box where the serial port is missing. This is extremely sloppy work. I will go to the dealer tomorrow and hopefully get this settled once and for all.

 

[Jimbo]

I'm not for letting the dealer off easy, but I also don't think it's going to be practical to have the dealer replace any and all components that could have been affected by abuse.

What if the joker who took it missed a shift? Then in addition to a new clutch, syncros, cv joints, diff you would be looking at an engine job.

If you're going to ask the dealer to replace any and all components then you might as well just get a lawyer up front, because the dealer will never agree to this.

A full and extensive warranty, IMHO, is not leaving the dealer off the hook. But it might make sense to at least talk to a lawyer if things go poorly with the dealership.

-Jim

 

[nsxxtreme]

Originally posted by Jimbo:
I'm not for letting the dealer off easy, but I also don't think it's going to be practical to have the dealer replace any and all components that could have been affected by abuse.

What if the joker who took it missed a shift? Then in addition to a new clutch, syncros, cv joints, diff you would be looking at an engine job.

If you're going to ask the dealer to replace any and all components then you might as well just get a lawyer up front, because the dealer will never agree to this.

A full and extensive warranty, IMHO, is not leaving the dealer off the hook. But it might make sense to at least talk to a lawyer if things go poorly with the dealership.

-Jim

I completely agree. Why not just have them replace the entire car while your at it. Throw a salvage title on it, so when the next person that buys it they know that there is 170 miles on the car that are unexplainable. You know their is no way of knowing exactly what they did in it. What about the previous owners? How do we know they didn't go out for some joy rides a few times. If it went to court my bet would be he wouldn't get very much. You would need to prove damage and it is unlikely he will be able to do so.
All I am doing is being realistic.

If they decide to salvage it let me know I'll buy it.

[This message has been edited by nsxxtreme (edited 09 March 2003).]

 

[gheba_nsx]

And you would buy an exotic with such a "shady" history?!?!

 

[RacerX-21]

Originally posted by RyRy210:
So here's the story:

I dropped off my car at the dealer last Friday [This message has been edited by RyRy210 (edited 06 March 2003).]

Your name wouldn’t happen to be Ferris Bueller would it? Try putting it on blocks and running it backwards… all kidding aside.

I’d be pissed… try to talk to the owner of the dealership, maybe he wouldn’t mind lending you his car the next time you go on a trip.