ZO6...In disbelief

Snap ring was a issue from out sourcing, which was not made to factory specs; as for 1000 tire life, never heard of it. Even the NSX-R's RE070 will give you minimum of 4000 miles.

BUT... C6 Roof flew off because GM designed it that way, by glue it in... THAT my friend, if funny.

Let's see - a handful (the one case has been reported over and over) of C6's have the roof problem but that makes it design problem. But thousands of NSX's have the snap ring problem resulting in a recall and that's less of a quality problem?

BTW, most, if not all, car companies use adhesives for manufacturing and assembly.
 
This is just an absurd comparison to make along a whole bunch of dimensions. New car vs. 15+ year old beater. OEM vs. aftermarket. $20k NSX's are salvage titled, so add salvage title vs. clear to the list. Expected large maintenence cost differential.

Even if you were going to go down the road of making those types of comparisons, and even if you were willing to get a salvage titled car, the NSX wouldn't be the best car to boost and maximize performance for the budget.

Don’t know about the whole beater deal… Calling an NSX a beater is like calling a 91 Ferrari, Porsche or Lambo a beater, let's not mention some of the awesome cars of the 60's and the 70's.

As far as modding on the budget, I'll agree that "the NSX wouldn't be the best car to boost and maximize performance for the budget". I mean, you can get power but $30K is not "on budget".

If you want performance on budget, build up a Civic Hatch for under $20K. Sure it don't look like an NSX or a Vette but believe me, when you burn cars like that on the strip, you will get the attention. My kickball league buddy bought the car for couple of k's, made it pleasing to the eye, swapped a built B18C1 Teggy motor and added a turbo (18 psi), suspension and boom... 11.5 in that baby @ the Bandimere Speedway (which is one mile above the sea level in Morrision, CO). Still... Personally, I'd take the NSX because I don't need more power than it has and the only mods I want are coilovers and wheels.

The new vette is a sweet car. Let's wait a year or two and see how the new NSX (or whatever they name it) does against the new Vette. Comparing a 15 year old "beater design" :smile: to a new product is a little unfair.
 
Don’t know about the whole beater deal… Calling an NSX a beater is like calling a 91 Ferrari, Porsche or Lambo a beater, let's not mention some of the awesome cars of the 60's and the 70's.

As far as modding on the budget, I'll agree that "the NSX wouldn't be the best car to boost and maximize performance for the budget". I mean, you can get power but $30K is not "on budget".

If you want performance on budget, build up a Civic Hatch for under $20K. Sure it don't look like an NSX or a Vette but believe me, when you burn cars like that on the strip, you will get the attention. My kickball league buddy bought the car for couple of k's, made it pleasing to the eye, swapped a built B18C1 Teggy motor and added a turbo (18 psi), suspension and boom... 11.5 in that baby @ the Bandimere Speedway (which is one mile above the sea level in Morrision, CO). Still... Personally, I'd take the NSX because I don't need more power than it has and the only mods I want are coilovers and wheels.

The new vette is a sweet car. Let's wait a year or two and see how the new NSX (or whatever they name it) does against the new Vette. Comparing a 15 year old "beater design" :smile: to a new product is a little unfair.

first of all, anything can be a beater.... so long as you have the $$
this includes any exotic you can imagine (watch mischief sometime)

so let's put feelings aside..... yeah you're comparing a 17 year old design to the new Z06. how about comparing the brand new F430 to the brand new Z06? how do you explain that one? and everybody knows ferrari did absolutely nothing close to "dropping the ball" on the F430 - it's an amazing car

rag on the leaf spring all you want, but if it had the nsx engine in it.... it'd still kick the nsx's ass over and over. somewhere in GM there are some damn good engineers - this car proves it. a lot of the cues were taken from the C5R and it shows.

and those of you still referencing the C5 Z06.... you just can't.... this is a whole different car.

bottom line, the new Z06 will kick the ass of any car cheaper and a bunch of cars more expensive than it. hopefully the "next nsx" will do the same.
 
Let's see - a handful (the one case has been reported over and over) of C6's have the roof problem but that makes it design problem. But thousands of NSX's have the snap ring problem resulting in a recall and that's less of a quality problem?

BTW, most, if not all, car companies use adhesives for manufacturing and assembly.

ummm... I personally know two guys who live in the San Fernando Valley (L.A.), each own C6 Corvettes, had their roofs de-laminate. Believe me, it's not an isolated case.
 
[
QUOTE=Synthesis;804814]Z06 will kick the ass of any car cheaper and a bunch of cars more expensive than it.
Just rode in one the other day and I have to agree, its definitely a different car and a beast that would kill on the streets. I love the torque on that car.:smile: :smile:
 
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Let's see - a handful (the one case has been reported over and over) of C6's have the roof problem but that makes it design problem. But thousands of NSX's have the snap ring problem resulting in a recall and that's less of a quality problem?

BTW, most, if not all, car companies use adhesives for manufacturing and assembly.

Adhesives are used in cars, of course, but only if they apply correctly.

Let me put it this way, how many 1991 NSXs are still out there? I hardly ever seen 1991 Covettes any more. Where are they?

Interestingly, people still willing drop 30k for a 91 NSX even though it "may" have snap ring issue... :rolleyes:
 
first of all, anything can be a beater.... so long as you have the $$
this includes any exotic you can imagine (watch mischief sometime)

so let's put feelings aside..... yeah you're comparing a 17 year old design to the new Z06. how about comparing the brand new F430 to the brand new Z06? how do you explain that one? and everybody knows ferrari did absolutely nothing close to "dropping the ball" on the F430 - it's an amazing car

rag on the leaf spring all you want, but if it had the nsx engine in it.... it'd still kick the nsx's ass over and over. somewhere in GM there are some damn good engineers - this car proves it. a lot of the cues were taken from the C5R and it shows.

and those of you still referencing the C5 Z06.... you just can't.... this is a whole different car.

bottom line, the new Z06 will kick the ass of any car cheaper and a bunch of cars more expensive than it. hopefully the "next nsx" will do the same.

F430 is a sweet ride. Oddly enough, the thing I love the most about it is the sound of that motor.
 
Since I'm notorious at putting threads to rest, maybe I should do so with this one.

The NSX vs. Corvette debate has reigned in so many different threads. Many of the hardcore NSX loves will make claims that the NSX is superior in various ways, and those that love and respect the Vette can counter with reasons their beloved car is superior.

Bottom line is, these are two different cars in many ways. I highly doubt that there are many members on this board who will say that the ZO6 is NOT a good car. In fact, and I'm not just speaking for myself here, the ZO6 is admittedly an impressive car in it's own way as the NSX is. The comparison is apples to oranges, Let's put the thread to rest, dust to dust (or ashes as I prefer it).

"Not the most sophisticated handling car in the world, but there's so much brute force it just doesn't matter, just use the right foot to get you out of trouble.." - Top Gear, regarding the ZO6
 
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what do you expect of the salesman? Its a Chevy dealer. They sell Cobalts.

The only dealership I have been to where I was impressed with the knowledge of the salesperson was at the Ferrari dealer, and the salesperson was a woman named Natalia... her father managed, her brother was a mechanic in the shop, and she was rev-matching with her high heel shoes. I am not joking.

I would have paid to see that. I bet that dealership sells a lot of ferraris.
She must make daddy proud!
 
I'm a designer... and I've had a few C5s and 4 NSXes. In 2005 I owned a 91 NSX and a 2000 C5 at the same time...

The VETTE interiors do look plasticy and yes it's uglier than a man's ass. The real issue is not even how bad the C5 or C6 interior looks design wise though. Own one for a few months... watch as the vette leather wears out over night. Seams start to rip and metal wires poke your arse. Watch knobs/switches break/fall apart. Watch the cheap carpet become fuzzy/knappy crap.

Better yet... Here:

http://homepage.mac.com/znine/PhotoAlbum39.html

Don't just take my word for it. See it with your own eyes. Here is a pic of my 91 NSX interior and a 2000 C5 interior taken about a year ago. Sad that a car designed in the 80s and built in the 90s... then driven for 16 years looks so much newer/more modern/timeless than the interior of a car designed in the late 90s and built in 2000 that was only driven for 3.5 years. Both cars had similiar mileage. The NSX spent most of it's life in the Las Vegas desert though :) Yet it still held up much much better. Reality is that not only does it look bad and it's poorly designed/laid out... Chevy uses inferior materials and the crafstmanship sucks. There are huge gaps and fitment is horrible. Things are positioned ackwardly. I mean you bump your knuckles on the stereo trying to get the car into gear. Give me a break. No one even thought about how to position things in the car. Then you have things like dash and interior plastic parts that crack for no reason. There is no way that there is more than $100 worth of materials in the cockpit of the Vette interior.

On the other hand... the leather seats/vinyl dash parts in the NSX hold up so well. Thnigs fit together well... There aren't huge gaps... Everything is in the right place. The worst thing that was going on in my NSX interior after 16 years was a little bit of that gun metal stuff on the door near the window switch was rippled.

I'm an interactive art director so I know how much goes into that C6 interior pic someone posted. The lighting etc. makes it look much better than it'll look after a few months of use IMHO.
 
Go ahead....Rub it in. :tongue:

What is the speed limit, if there is one?
Yes I do like to rub it in:biggrin: , but only because I get a thrill every time I drive here. I lived in the States for years, never again though, because I like the freedom and driving here too much.

In Europe posted speed limits and real speed limits are completely different. Because there are no cops to enforce it (except in Holland). Last night I drove from Basel to Belgium, through Germany. Those electric signs said 130 almost all the way, but I did 200 most of the way (in the NSX).
Except in the many places with road works. Germany is getting notorious for those now.
BTW, there are no “posts” saying the speed limit, only one small sign as you cross the border telling the limit in towns, highway and motorway. So if you are in the country you are supposed to know the speed limits, because there will be no signs saying it inside the country.
They only “post” when the speed differs for some reason, like near a town or big intersection or road works etc.
Belgium is posted at 120 but we can drive 160 with no trouble. Most people drive about 140. Again, no cops anywhere.
That’s probably why people drive at a sensible speed, there are no cops. It sort of gives people a voluntary sense of responsibility for their speed. That’s the way I feel anyway, I think others do too.
And so, while driving through a town (50 is “posted” at the Belgian border), for example, I will drive at 40-60 even though I could go 100 if I wanted. Same with everybody else.
I feel it’s the freedom to do what you want that makes you drive sensibly. Certainly not the threat of getting a ticket. That threat practically doesn’t exist. You can even see that sort of responsibility in young people in sports cars or fast motorcycles, and it is really nice to see.

France is 130 but you can go 150, I have many times with no problem, many a French resident can go faster because he knows how it is there better that I.
Similar in other countries.
Even in Holland with lots of cops, we can do around 140 (120 is “posted” at the border)

You guys want a great summer, ship your car over as a tourist and drive around for a couple of months, its really great for driving fast cars here.
I recently saw a Z06 with California plates on it (at the Ring) so I guess he is doing it. (back on topic hehe)
 
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Well, looks like you guys are going to have to come up with something else to complain about besides the interior.

http://gallery.patel360.com/v/Corvette/2008+Corvette/

2008+Corvette+07.jpg


2008+Corvette+05.jpg


It is now easily as good as the interior of the NSX (only took them 16 years :))
Also, it is LEATHER, not Vinyl like the majority of the NSX interior.

Also, for 2008, 436HP, 425TQ and a number of other small improvements.

FYI, the interior of the C6 is not bad at all as is. Yes, there is plastic, but it is not horrible. The doors however are crap.

As for the Z06, it also gets this interior option.

A good friend of mine raced a C6 z06 from a roll in 3rd gear in his NSX. The Z06 was 6 car lengths ahead by the top of 4th gear. That car is FREAKING fast. Oh, I should mention his car has a CTSC on it and a 6-speed tranny with all the go-fast parts. (92 YM) He was shocked.

Now, for $75 grand you get 505HP, a really nice interior and a 5 year warranty on powertrain. How can you possibly complain about that?

Don't forget in 2009 the 600HP vette comes out and it will be around 100K. It should smoke just about anything on the road (except super exotics).

I could see Shawn with one of those in the near future. :)
 
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Now, for $75 grand you get 505HP, a really nice interior and a 5 year warranty on powertrain. How can you possibly complain about that?

I could complain about it when I see another car every stop light that looks like the same car I am driving.

I can also complain about it when, and I don't know about you guys, but where I live only good ol' counrty boys drive the Vette. Not a crowd I really want to hang around with on weekends.
 
Yes I do like to rub it in:biggrin: , but only because I get a thrill every time I drive here. I lived in the States for years, never again though, because I like the freedom and driving here too much.

In Europe posted speed limits and real speed limits are completely different. Because there are no cops to enforce it (except in Holland). Last night I drove from Basel to Belgium, through Germany. Those electric signs said 130 almost all the way, but I did 200 most of the way (in the NSX).
Except in the many places with road works. Germany is getting notorious for those now.
BTW, there are no “posts” saying the speed limit, only one small sign as you cross the border telling the limit in towns, highway and motorway. So if you are in the country you are supposed to know the speed limits, because there will be no signs saying it inside the country.
They only “post” when the speed differs for some reason, like near a town or big intersection or road works etc.
Belgium is posted at 120 but we can drive 160 with no trouble. Most people drive about 140. Again, no cops anywhere.
That’s probably why people drive at a sensible speed, there are no cops. It sort of gives people a voluntary sense of responsibility for their speed. That’s the way I feel anyway, I think others do too.
And so, while driving through a town (50 is “posted” at the Belgian border), for example, I will drive at 40-60 even though I could go 100 if I wanted. Same with everybody else.
I feel it’s the freedom to do what you want that makes you drive sensibly. Certainly not the threat of getting a ticket. That threat practically doesn’t exist. You can even see that sort of responsibility in young people in sports cars or fast motorcycles, and it is really nice to see.

France is 130 but you can go 150, I have many times with no problem, many a French resident can go faster because he knows how it is there better that I.
Similar in other countries.
Even in Holland with lots of cops, we can do around 140 (120 is “posted” at the border)

You guys want a great summer, ship your car over as a tourist and drive around for a couple of months, its really great for driving fast cars here.
I recently saw a Z06 with California plates on it (at the Ring) so I guess he is doing it. (back on topic hehe)

Just out of curiousity, how much would it cost to ship my car there for some fun?

I could complain about it when I see another car every stop light that looks like the same car I am driving.

I can also complain about it when, and I don't know about you guys, but where I live only good ol' counrty boys drive the Vette. Not a crowd I really want to hang around with on weekends.

Co-Sign
 
Something tells me that Honda is having a problem designing the engines of their high-performance cars. If they think logically by transferring let's say, $1000 to make engines with more than 300 HP, cars like the NSX, RL and S2000 wouldn't be selling in the micro-volumes that they are (or did, in the case of the NSX). Sigh...

Besides Honda, are there any car companies that don't have an engine that makes more than 300 HP?



Japan Dumps 276-hp Pact - Car News
BY PETER LYON, January 2005


Since 1989, Japanese automakers have all endorsed—at least on paper—a kind of gentlemen's agreement that limited their advertised horsepower to 276 on domestically produced vehicles. Their primary goal was to avoid a horsepower war in a country where the maximum speed limit is 62 mph. But in October, Honda officially broke the agreement at its Legend (Acura RL in the U.S.) press conference when it unveiled the model's 300-hp, 3.5-liter V-6.

For years, it's been presumed that once an automaker stuck out its neck and ignored the 276-hp mark, the rest would quickly follow. And judging by what's in the Japanese production pipeline, it looks as if the conventional wisdom was correct. Coming on the heels of that new Acura RL will be the Lexus RX400h with an estimated 300 horsepower, and then the flood gates open—Mazda will introduce a 300-hp two-seat RX-7, Acura will again cross the line with a new NSX with at least 400 horses, and Toyota will mark its territory with the supercar on page 36.

Japanese engine designers, however, will readily concede that the country's manufacturers have been building cars with more than 276 horsepower. It's just that none of the automakers wanted to officially break the agreement. It's no secret that Mitsubishi Lancer Evos, Subaru Impreza WRXs, and Nissan 300ZX twin-turbos have been in violation of the agreement for years, but at least in Japan, they all claimed to have 276 horsepower. The false advertising was ignored for the sake of harmony. Not anymore.

http://www.caranddriver.com/carnews/8948/japan-dumps-276-hp-pact.html
 
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I could complain about it when I see another car every stop light that looks like the same car I am driving.

I can also complain about it when, and I don't know about you guys, but where I live only good ol' counrty boys drive the Vette. Not a crowd I really want to hang around with on weekends.

There is something to be said for exclusivity for sure. You would have the same problem if you bought a Porsche 911.

There are so few NSX's around anywhere I have ever lived that I have never found a group to hang around with on weekends.
 
It is now easily as good as the interior of the NSX (only took them 16 years :))
Also, it is LEATHER, not Vinyl like the majority of the NSX interior.

Have you seen GM leather interiors before? Yuck. I need to see this one for myself, not the glamour shots internet photoshopped airbrushed version.

A good friend of mine raced a C6 z06 from a roll in 3rd gear in his NSX. The Z06 was 6 car lengths ahead by the top of 4th gear. That car is FREAKING fast. Oh, I should mention his car has a CTSC on it and a 6-speed tranny with all the go-fast parts. (92 YM) He was shocked.

I don't know why that good friend is surprised. :wink: 330-340rwhp NSX vs 440-450rwhp Z06? :confused:
 
Don't forget in 2009 the 600HP vette comes out and it will be around 100K. It should smoke just about anything on the road (except super exotics).

The base model will get the LS7 engine then also... or a version of the LS3. The LS9 engine will be more like 650hp btw. It's the last GM RWD platform to get the go ahead as GM is waiting for the new CAFE requirements to be released.
 
Those electric signs said 130 almost all the way, but I did 200 most of the way (in the NSX).
Except in the many places with road works. Germany is getting notorious for those now.
BTW, there are no “posts” saying the speed limit, only one small sign as you cross the border telling the limit in towns, highway and motorway. So if you are in the country you are supposed to know the speed limits, because there will be no signs saying it inside the country.
They only “post” when the speed differs for some reason, like near a town or big intersection or road works etc.

Hey Peter,

I think you misunderstood something. If the electric signs tell you 130km/h is the limit on that specific part of the autobahn and your doing 200+ and get cought by stationary speed traps or cops you're standing in jail with one leg, more than ever as foreign visitor. I would loose my license for couple of months and pay a pretty large fee. You are probably referring to the recommended speed which is 130km/h and is only shown once on signs you mentioned when entering germany. If you crash on the autobahn doing over 130km/h without being able to prove the accident would have happend also if you followed the recommended speedlimit of 130km/h your car insurance doesn't cover the damage. Assuming there are other cars involved in the accident and a victim is, for example, in need of a wheelchair after the accident your life is pretty much ruined because you're going to have to pay for everything he needs.. for example the complete reconstruction of his house for wheelchair use. If traffic is heavy I'd think twice about going fast. Better don't get yourself in trouble. ;)
If the autobahn you're going to drive on got a speedlimit you get multiple signs telling you the limit even before leaving the feeding road to the autobahn and then there will be signs when your driving on the autobahn.. if you can't spot any you're free to floor it. :)

Oh and about the Corvette interior, I know 2 NSXs in my hometown, never seen a Corvette, never sat in one neither, they are pretty rare probably because their image is not 'that' good. ;)

Klayton
 
Hi Klayton, good to hear from someone in Germany.
But they were real speed restrictions (red circle with speed of 130), not recommended speeds (blue). Also, no passing in some places. Pretty much constant from Basel to Belgium. Friday night between 20.00 and 00.00, Frieburg, Karlsruhe, Koblenz, Koln, Aachen, Belgium.

But I wasn’t the only one (completely) ignoring the speed limits. In fact, I couldn’t count many people who were going at or under 130, except trucks etc. Sometimes I had to pull over for cars coming up behind.
Also, I have GB license plates on my car, I am sure I have been flashed numerous times (maybe like a million) in 10 years but have never received even one note in the post ever.

In 2006 I had a girlfriend in Holland and every weekend and during the week I drove there (in the busiest parts, Rotterdam etc) for 8 months. I did about 140-160 (120 limit but mostly 100) in many places. I must have been flashed a hundred times according to my friends in Holland.
Then, one day after 8 months, on top of a bridge, there was a manned radar gun. 500 metres later a waiting cop bike pulled in front of me and told me to follow him with the “follow” sign they have on the bikes. I followed him to a sort of big parking lot, where there were about 25 cops, a mobile radio centre, lots of truck trailers with cop equipment and antennae etc.
A sort of ticket factory.
The cop bike led me in and took off again to collect others. A nice woman cop asked for my papers, gave me an alcohol test and I ate my lunch for 10 minutes while they processed all my info in the mobile computer room trailer thing. While they were doing this, there was a constant stream of cars being led in and ticketed, mostly Dutch of course. They processed me and I had to pay a small sum, the first in 10 years. Then they let me go.
WTF? Don’t they have a system or what? Everybody told me horror stories like they have a list of foreign cars who are known to have been travelling real fast for the last year, every weekend or so like me. 8 months times 4 is 32, then double that to 64 times I must have be flashed.
No. Their system must be all just fear and intimidation. And money.
Even more, as the nice lady cop gave me the ticket, I politely told her that the 140 I was doing in the 100 zone was perfectly safe and that 3 others near me were doing that but didn’t get radared or stopped and I told her that since I have paid her money, I would now do 160 all the way to the border with Belgium (Dordrecht to Breda and then the border, one of the many heavily built up areas) unless I had a police escort.
She said she couldn’t do that. So I did 160 all the way. No cops. More data for my experiment. All the cops were in that ticket factory I guess. And nothing in the post either. At the border, I have many times expressly sped up to 160 (100 zone) under those cameras mounted on the bridge there. Nothing in 10 years. Only when I see that motorcycle cop parked there, I reduce to about 130 (100 zone). Nothing either.
Their system is severely undermanned and ineffective and seems to be based on fear and intimidation.
3 months before on the same motorway near Dordrecht (so I had been speeding at least 24 times by then), a cop car came along side me and waved at me to slow down, one of those fast Volvos). He saw me doing 160 in a 120 zone then I saw him and did 120 in a 100 zone. That was all he did. Then he drove off.
That was all in Holland.
In Belgium and France I have been flashed (I actually saw the thing flash me) and never heard a thing either. I assume it has happened in Germany too. Yes, at least one time on the way to the Ring.

Speed controls in B, F and D are very rare compared to NL, though.

Everybody has stories of doom and gloom, but it is not substantiated by the active experiments that I carry out every day for the last 10 years. The only times I have been stopped, besides in the ticket factory in NL above, was in Belgium for going too slow (had a trailer and the motorway surface was really bad). No ticket then either.

I understand what you say about the accidents and everything, but them proving it is another matter. And I have never had an accident. In 25 years of high speed driving (except numerous times in the rally car…) so I must be doing something right. And I don’t believe in good luck, only bad luck.

Just for my experimental info, Klayton, have you ever been ticketed/flashed on the German motorways? Where are the favourite spots for this? Road works or 130 areas? Also have you noticed that on the German motorways, people are getting really bad at pulling over when we come up on them from behind? I actually had to flash people several times. Seems to getting worse to me…pity.
Anyway thanks for the info, it all helps the picture.

Back on topic, the Z06 gets looks here in Belgium, that’s for sure.
 
Have you seen GM leather interiors before? Yuck. I need to see this one for myself, not the glamour shots internet photoshopped airbrushed version.



I don't know why that good friend is surprised. :wink: 330-340rwhp NSX vs 440-450rwhp Z06? :confused:

because with "all the goodies" it probably has closer to 400.... regardless, a ctsc nsx is goddamn fast and 6 car lengths is a lot.
 
Peter, ok, I just had the feeling you mistook the signs. If you know the route and locals are speeding it should be fine to 'swim' with them. :) I got flashed once on the autobahn some weeks later a ticket came 40andsomething € for 95km/h through road works limited to 80km/h. No big deal, other tickets I recieved were within city limits, thus not relevant. Friend of mine currently walks to university, he got cought doing 190 in a 120 zone I recall he paid 200andsomething€ fee and got some points at the federal motor transport authority in Flensburg and got his licence detracted for 3 months. Stationary speed traps have to be easy visible by law, the only danger are speed traps like you expirienced, mobile ones they use to control dangerous spots. You are right about everyone knows 'stories of doom and gloom' but since everyone knows them there must be some truth behind them. :) I also experience people for example pulling out of their lane to overtake without looking behind but I believe that's a general problem, people don't look after others and that's also showing on the roads, even I notice that.

Take care.
Klayton
 
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