I just don't like how Supras look.
Why take a NSX over a SupraTT?
- Thread starter BATMANs
- Start date
i love supras. they look so much better in person (as does the nsx)... if i could, i would own both.
but i chose the nsx for two reasons.....
1) i think it's nicer overall
2) i don't have the amount of money it requires to invest into a supra to make it reach its potential
but i have to admit, the most appealing thing about the supra is the ability of it to do this....
supra vs hayabusa
but i chose the nsx for two reasons.....
1) i think it's nicer overall
2) i don't have the amount of money it requires to invest into a supra to make it reach its potential
but i have to admit, the most appealing thing about the supra is the ability of it to do this....
supra vs hayabusa
The simple answer is because they are just 2 different cars that don't feel alike. A NSX will never feel like a Supra and a Supra will never feel like a NSX.
I love MKIV Supras and owned a 93. I would own one again. I think it's the second greatest Japanese car ever. I think it, along with the NSX, are standout cars that hold special places in the history of the automobile.
But the NSX is just better. Plain and simple. It's better built, more R & D went into it, it's better looking, faster stock and even less common than a MKIV Supra.
The NSX is a handbuilt, superbly balanced car with stellar suspension geometry designed for a track with Formula One technology and years of tuning and testing behind it. The Supra is none of those things.
What the Supra is is an unequaled platform for modification and virtually unlimited horsepower. In stock form it's still one of the fastest cars around, is extremely reliable and still looks very good IMO--almost timeless--but certainly not exotic like the NSX.
I like to drive fast on a track and the Supra just was not designed with that in mind. With extensive suspension mods and a 200hp advantage the Supra could hang on the track but the fact remains that it just isn't very balanced and I wouldn't want to be driving it anywhere near it's limit on a track. And that's cheating because I think we really should be comparing stock to stock.
The Supra is truly the Holy Grail for car modification and it's a great car that can be very fun and frighteningly powerful for frighteningly little money. I would absolutely consider owning one again but the NSX gives me things the Supra just can't. Of course the NSX can't be made to run 10 sec 1/4s for $10,000 either but that's not something I'm concerned with on a daily basis.
But the NSX is just better. Plain and simple. It's better built, more R & D went into it, it's better looking, faster stock and even less common than a MKIV Supra.
The NSX is a handbuilt, superbly balanced car with stellar suspension geometry designed for a track with Formula One technology and years of tuning and testing behind it. The Supra is none of those things.
What the Supra is is an unequaled platform for modification and virtually unlimited horsepower. In stock form it's still one of the fastest cars around, is extremely reliable and still looks very good IMO--almost timeless--but certainly not exotic like the NSX.
I like to drive fast on a track and the Supra just was not designed with that in mind. With extensive suspension mods and a 200hp advantage the Supra could hang on the track but the fact remains that it just isn't very balanced and I wouldn't want to be driving it anywhere near it's limit on a track. And that's cheating because I think we really should be comparing stock to stock.
The Supra is truly the Holy Grail for car modification and it's a great car that can be very fun and frighteningly powerful for frighteningly little money. I would absolutely consider owning one again but the NSX gives me things the Supra just can't. Of course the NSX can't be made to run 10 sec 1/4s for $10,000 either but that's not something I'm concerned with on a daily basis.
I agree. The cars felt vey different. This photo of mine is from year 2000. The Supra left in 2002 and the NSX stayed with me until 2005. Should tell you which one I preferred !
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I picked up my 95TT back before "The Movie" when it was still a great bargain. I enjoyed the hell out of it, and spent allot cash upgrading it, before it burned up (engine fire) on me. When looking for another sports car I couldn't justify the price increase that the FF movie had caused, so I decided to step up to the NSX.
The 2 cars are very different beast, and I don't feel that they are in the same class. In my opinion the Supra is a fine sports car, even a supercar, but the NSX is an exotic. Exotic materials, exotic looks and exotic refinement are the reasons I considered buying the NSX, a step up in class, and I have no intensions on stepping back down.
The 2 cars are very different beast, and I don't feel that they are in the same class. In my opinion the Supra is a fine sports car, even a supercar, but the NSX is an exotic. Exotic materials, exotic looks and exotic refinement are the reasons I considered buying the NSX, a step up in class, and I have no intensions on stepping back down.
I've always wanted an NSX, and love them! That being said, don't sell the MKIV Supra too short since it's a formidable opponent...even on the road course. However, I do feel it's true that most NSX enthusiasts will be more apt to take their cars to lapping days than most Supra enthusiasts. Calling the Supra a Japanese muscle car is fairly accurate in my mind too, despite the fact that it can handle very well when setup for it (despite it's weight).
I've had quite a few Supras (4) through the years, and it was quite a journey. However, I wanted something newer and lighter...so ultimately just bought a stock 2004 Corvette Z06. Now I'm enjoying that car thoroughly as being an "un-Supra" in that I don't throw money at it every month in an effort to re-engineer it to higher standards all the time.
I still feel that I'll buy an NSX one day, but the cost to make them as fast in a straightline (relative to Supra and Z06) has definitely kept me a bit gun-shy about taking the plunge. Hats off to all the real enthusiasts on this thread who appreciate all fast cars.
I've had quite a few Supras (4) through the years, and it was quite a journey. However, I wanted something newer and lighter...so ultimately just bought a stock 2004 Corvette Z06. Now I'm enjoying that car thoroughly as being an "un-Supra" in that I don't throw money at it every month in an effort to re-engineer it to higher standards all the time.
I still feel that I'll buy an NSX one day, but the cost to make them as fast in a straightline (relative to Supra and Z06) has definitely kept me a bit gun-shy about taking the plunge. Hats off to all the real enthusiasts on this thread who appreciate all fast cars.
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Steve, i'm sure a couple guys on here recognize you from SF.
NSX guys are a pretty cool crowd in general as they tend to be road racing biased...and you know I appreciate that. :wink:
I'm surprised how long I've been a member over here...I don't visit often enough.
I'm surprised how long I've been a member over here...I don't visit often enough.
I was never really fond of the Poopra, I think they look like a fish lol. That's why I got a 3000gt vr4 instead when I was looking for a twin turbo vehicle a couple years back when I first got my licence. But anyway back on topic.
Because the NSX is handbuilt and the Supra is not.
Because the NSX is handbuilt and the Supra is not.
It's a matter of taste.
I enjoy my supra and nsx for different reasons. I love the supra for its curves, and easily upgradeable engine. The feel of it is heavy, but when you have something that's over 1000 rwhp, you wouldn't want it to feel fragile. I drive the Supra once in a while when we have a meet or cruise. If I were to call it a sword, it would be a Broad sword. Big. Heavy. Powerful. When you Drive it.. it's weight will be carried forward with Brute Strength.
I love the nsx for the angular lines and handling. While it's not blistering fast, the 3.2L engine is more then capable of holding it's own against most competitors, and it's responsiveness make the nsx that much more enjoyable to drive. I drive that car mostly everyday. Not something I would do with the supra. If I were to call the NSX a sword.. it would be Rapier.. Very sleek and light. it can dance around the street with ease. and the movement of the car is more fluid and controlled.
Both are kick ass cars. It just depends on my mood, as to which I prefer driving.
I enjoy my supra and nsx for different reasons. I love the supra for its curves, and easily upgradeable engine. The feel of it is heavy, but when you have something that's over 1000 rwhp, you wouldn't want it to feel fragile. I drive the Supra once in a while when we have a meet or cruise. If I were to call it a sword, it would be a Broad sword. Big. Heavy. Powerful. When you Drive it.. it's weight will be carried forward with Brute Strength.
I love the nsx for the angular lines and handling. While it's not blistering fast, the 3.2L engine is more then capable of holding it's own against most competitors, and it's responsiveness make the nsx that much more enjoyable to drive. I drive that car mostly everyday. Not something I would do with the supra. If I were to call the NSX a sword.. it would be Rapier.. Very sleek and light. it can dance around the street with ease. and the movement of the car is more fluid and controlled.
Both are kick ass cars. It just depends on my mood, as to which I prefer driving.
love the ignorance here. supra out handles, out brakes and out performs RX7 and NSX. :biggrin:
if you never driven one... why chime in?
both kick ass cars, would be lucky to own either one. To be honest tho... if my nsx had 900RWP i would be driving it all day and the supra would be sitting in the garage.... however, im pretty sure my supra will always have more power than the nsx.
women could care less about your car. from expereince, cars are guy magnets.
i have never been able to take my nsx/supra/ferrari in to a bar and use it to impress the ladies.
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Keep this in mind:
Supra:
320hp
235/45-17f
255/50-17r
NSX:
260hp
205/50-15f
225/50-16r
The supra does generate a higher overall G-level and slalom speed. But the NSX isn't that far off with much smaller tires. Put on similar tires sizes and i'm sure the NSX would generate better numbers.
Just like a Viper, the supra has big brakes, big tires, and a lot of power and can make some impressive numbers performance wise. Does that mean it handles or feels good like a drivers car should? Will the Supra ever have the same braking and steering feel as an NSX? Will a Viper?
Not to say the Supra isn't quick because in a straight line it is faster than RX7 and NSX, it's easy to make turbocharged cars go faster.
-just some things to consider.
Supra:
320hp
235/45-17f
255/50-17r
NSX:
260hp
205/50-15f
225/50-16r
The supra does generate a higher overall G-level and slalom speed. But the NSX isn't that far off with much smaller tires. Put on similar tires sizes and i'm sure the NSX would generate better numbers.
Just like a Viper, the supra has big brakes, big tires, and a lot of power and can make some impressive numbers performance wise. Does that mean it handles or feels good like a drivers car should? Will the Supra ever have the same braking and steering feel as an NSX? Will a Viper?
Not to say the Supra isn't quick because in a straight line it is faster than RX7 and NSX, it's easy to make turbocharged cars go faster.
-just some things to consider.
stock is stock.
stock supra out does stock nsx. NSX didnt need bigger tires due to a lack of power and less weight.
not to mention that the nsx cost 2X+ that of the supra.
so if the supra had an extra 40,000$ in upgrades/parts....
ps dont forget bigger tires weight more and it takes more torque to get those babies rolling.... so NO, bigger tires does NOT = better G and better slalom speeds.
"-just some things to consider." :biggrin:
once again, both are great cars.
stock supra out does stock nsx. NSX didnt need bigger tires due to a lack of power and less weight.
not to mention that the nsx cost 2X+ that of the supra.
so if the supra had an extra 40,000$ in upgrades/parts....
ps dont forget bigger tires weight more and it takes more torque to get those babies rolling.... so NO, bigger tires does NOT = better G and better slalom speeds.
"-just some things to consider." :biggrin:
once again, both are great cars.
Yes larger wheels/tires will result in slower acceleration because it will take more power to turn a larger rotating mass.
BUT, wider tires will increase the contact patch and more importantly the width of the tire's contact patch, resulting in a higher limit of grip = better G and slalom speeds and more often than not, faster times around a track. Granted, their is a point where too wide/big/etc... will become detrimental, but the 205f 225r factory wheels and tires on the NSX was one of its weak points.
So yes, making the tires wider will result in better performance, even if it's not straight line speed.
You said you own a Supra (obvious). Do you also own an NSX or have driven one, especially one on 205f 225r tires?
I own both....
I love both cars and I can't pick one over the other. The NSX is a better "drivers car" where the Supra is all out muscle. It doesn't stop there though, alot of people are bashing it's handling and I don't know why. I DO road race and I think the Supra is one of the better handling cars I've ever owned. Yes it's heavy and doesn't have the road feel of an NSX but I think it'll matchup well on any racetrack timewise. There is a list of top times on the Nurburgring somewhere on it's website and the Supra is on there a couple times so it can't handle that poorly. Brakes are phenomenal as well.....some of the best brakes I've ever felt on a stock car. The NSX has a leg up in the interior...it's more luxorious and better fit and finish. The Supra's interior is all business...big-ass tach right in your face. Overall quality of the Supra is awesome though, over engineered motor that can handle crazy amounts of power RELIABLY. NSX wins in style points though, the Supra looks like a japanese muscle car and I prefer the exotic, mid engine look (my personal preference). Although both cars are very rare, I do see less Supras (especially turbos) around here. Makes sense since NSX's had a much longer production run in the states. All depends on what you want and personal preference.
This makes me think of what happened earlier...I got spanked by an EVO in my NSX and I wished I was in the Supra
I've had some other embarrassing losses that I don't wanna mention also. I do think this though, a properly turbo'd or SC NSX would be the perfect ride for me. Perfection comes at a price though.
Feel free to PM me if you want any additional input on these two cars.
PS: I had an FD once too...'94 Vintage red touring with the R1 lip. M2 ECU, MBC, Greddy PE cat back, Midpipe. Sold it with only 25k original miles
I love both cars and I can't pick one over the other. The NSX is a better "drivers car" where the Supra is all out muscle. It doesn't stop there though, alot of people are bashing it's handling and I don't know why. I DO road race and I think the Supra is one of the better handling cars I've ever owned. Yes it's heavy and doesn't have the road feel of an NSX but I think it'll matchup well on any racetrack timewise. There is a list of top times on the Nurburgring somewhere on it's website and the Supra is on there a couple times so it can't handle that poorly. Brakes are phenomenal as well.....some of the best brakes I've ever felt on a stock car. The NSX has a leg up in the interior...it's more luxorious and better fit and finish. The Supra's interior is all business...big-ass tach right in your face. Overall quality of the Supra is awesome though, over engineered motor that can handle crazy amounts of power RELIABLY. NSX wins in style points though, the Supra looks like a japanese muscle car and I prefer the exotic, mid engine look (my personal preference). Although both cars are very rare, I do see less Supras (especially turbos) around here. Makes sense since NSX's had a much longer production run in the states. All depends on what you want and personal preference.
This makes me think of what happened earlier...I got spanked by an EVO in my NSX and I wished I was in the Supra
I've had some other embarrassing losses that I don't wanna mention also. I do think this though, a properly turbo'd or SC NSX would be the perfect ride for me. Perfection comes at a price though. Feel free to PM me if you want any additional input on these two cars.
PS: I had an FD once too...'94 Vintage red touring with the R1 lip. M2 ECU, MBC, Greddy PE cat back, Midpipe. Sold it with only 25k original miles
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:biggrin:
lol, think it over before posting.... NO, wider tires will not increase the tire contact patch. :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
You have the same axle weight distributed with the same preasure (35 psi) over wider tires which results in the tire patch changing shape from a straight and narrow contact patch on the stock tire size to a wide and narrow contact patch for wider tires. you can only tweek the width to a certain point. changing tire compound will make a difference.
as for nsx ownership... you dont read so well... i clearly stated i own nsx & supra. i have driven them on the stock tires and also on the 235 / 275 comb setup i currently have on mine.
BTW... you know that slalom speed is acturaly SPEED! if your car does not have the torque to rotate the extra weight of bigger tires you WONT GET UP TO SPEED to take the slalom. :biggrin: do you know what a slalom is?
If you can keep your NSX at WOT while taking slalom and picking up speed than you can give the world a lesson on performance driving.
btw... i own a nsx... do you? have you driven a nsx with stock tires? 16 / 17/ 18 / 19 inch tire and rim combos? ever driven a supra? ever sat in a supra? i have:biggrin: :biggrin:
VENDETTA! lol i was thinkin the exact same thing. 4 kids in a EVO took me off the line and just schooled me in the nsx.... my first thought was .... damn.... if i only had the supra
Vendetta, sold your fd at 25000 miles cause the apex seals where going out hun
apex seals where inspired by the devil.
who was the one that started this silly post anyways? just enjoy the cars you have, dont have to knock on other cars. Each one has their + and -. Way i see it is even the ugliest kids will still have parents that love them. Just let it be. If you want a nsx over a supra, we really dont need to waste forum space on it. If you cant make up your mind on how to spend your own money, than you should not have either.
btw, im a troll today cause i pulled my back unloading an engine yesterday and now im a cripple in pain and gota rebuild an engine tomorrow. i sweat bullets just standing at the toilet to take a leak. :biggrin:
lol, think it over before posting.... NO, wider tires will not increase the tire contact patch. :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:
You have the same axle weight distributed with the same preasure (35 psi) over wider tires which results in the tire patch changing shape from a straight and narrow contact patch on the stock tire size to a wide and narrow contact patch for wider tires. you can only tweek the width to a certain point. changing tire compound will make a difference.
as for nsx ownership... you dont read so well... i clearly stated i own nsx & supra. i have driven them on the stock tires and also on the 235 / 275 comb setup i currently have on mine.
BTW... you know that slalom speed is acturaly SPEED! if your car does not have the torque to rotate the extra weight of bigger tires you WONT GET UP TO SPEED to take the slalom. :biggrin: do you know what a slalom is?
If you can keep your NSX at WOT while taking slalom and picking up speed than you can give the world a lesson on performance driving.
btw... i own a nsx... do you? have you driven a nsx with stock tires? 16 / 17/ 18 / 19 inch tire and rim combos? ever driven a supra? ever sat in a supra? i have:biggrin: :biggrin:
VENDETTA! lol i was thinkin the exact same thing. 4 kids in a EVO took me off the line and just schooled me in the nsx.... my first thought was .... damn.... if i only had the supra
Vendetta, sold your fd at 25000 miles cause the apex seals where going out hun
apex seals where inspired by the devil.who was the one that started this silly post anyways? just enjoy the cars you have, dont have to knock on other cars. Each one has their + and -. Way i see it is even the ugliest kids will still have parents that love them. Just let it be. If you want a nsx over a supra, we really dont need to waste forum space on it. If you cant make up your mind on how to spend your own money, than you should not have either.
btw, im a troll today cause i pulled my back unloading an engine yesterday and now im a cripple in pain and gota rebuild an engine tomorrow. i sweat bullets just standing at the toilet to take a leak. :biggrin:
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agree with the supra interior is all business... if you have not sat in a supra, you dont know what your missing.
All the gauges and controls and contoured TOWARDS the driver like a cockpit.
/--\
..x...y
Little diagram above. X is the driver /--\ = console/gauges and y is along for the ride.
The passenger gets no controls facing them what so ever. The passenger has to lean towards to driver to acturally see the gauges and radio controls.
The supra is a drivers car and only a drivers car. I believe the designers made the car for the driver than just put in a passenger seat cause there was extra room to fill. The passenger is just there for the ride. :biggrin:
Wider tires change the shape of the contact patch. Wider and shorter. The wider contact patch relative to length allows more of the contact patch to be in contact with the ground when cornering. Weight transfer puts load on the outer edge of the contact patch. Adding camber allows for more of this contact patch to be touching the ground when cornering. Having a wider contact patch (but shorter) also allows more of this contact patch to be in touch with the ground when cornering. A longer and narrower contact patch looses a lot of it's area that touches the ground due to its narrower shape. Also a wider tire allows you to run a lower tire pressure and thus creating a larger contact patch :wink:
yes, but you do not start a slolom from a dead stop. You enter the slolom already at speed and that speed is dictated by the car's level of grip to change direction while maintaining speed the whole way through the slolom. If it were a standing start slolom and it was short, maybe your claim would be true. More grip allows you to carry a higher speed through a slolom. If you enter the slolom at a given speed, any car can maintain that speed going straight, because almost every car can maintain a 70mph+ in a straight line. So now throw a coned slolom what is the reason for not maintaining this speed? -grip. You do not have the grip to change direction at the given speed. So HP and speed does not dictate slolom speed. It is grip. A lotus elise is light and has low hp, but it has a lot of grip, which is why the slolom speed for elieses are high.
Yes I do, with stock 205f 225r and their is a huge lack of grip compared to a 235/275 setup given the same tires. Yup, Yup, Yup. They are quick, have a lot of grip, and have a lot of power. They are a fast car but the interior is that of a plasticy rental car and the steering (light and uncommunicative), brakes, clutch, gearbox all feel of the typical cheap plasticky and spongy sensations of corollas and neons. A Viper is very similar. A viper is quick, has wider tires, a lot of grip, big brakes, and a lot of power too. Does that mean it's refined - no (it's steering is also light and vague), does that mean it is a proper driving car - no. Does it generate impressive numbers and is fast around a track - yes. Vipers do not give good feedback to the driver (similar to a supra). It is not refined, nor does it feel like high quality of German automobiles. I love Vipers, but that dosn't mean that they are great or the best car in the world. Is the NSX the best car in the world? - no. Like you said, each have their + and -s. You just haveto look at what suits your interests.
I guess you're one of the many afraid of the devil's toy?Vendetta, sold your fd at 25000 miles cause the apex seals where going out hun
:wink:
LOL:biggrin:
RX7 has a better 'cockpit' layout than a Supra. The Supra does have a cockpit shape, but with random gauges against a plain back drop of a curved plastiky console. Dear lord, a supra is far from a 'drivers' car. The feedback through all of the controls is that of a 'bowl of potato soup'. -far from a drivers car.
lol i like my bowl of soup and power steering.
i was not impressed by the rx7 cockpit layout at all. its boring but im sure there is beauty in blah :smile:
already stated wider tires change contact patch. please read post again.
Honda match the tires size to the car. With the extra weight on the back of the nsx, the tire patch distrabution is not the issue here.
if it called for bigger tires, im sure Honda & Zanardi would have made adjustments.
No one said HP = slalom speed. Please reread post. Its about the handling, supra handles better in stock forum. Its a fact. :biggrin:
Like i said before. NSX is 2X the money of the supra.
im sure you can put some sweanky leather interior in the supra for an extra $40,000. :biggrin:
whoever started this topic should be shot. :biggrin: both cars rock. end of conversation.
apex seal is designed by the devil. rx7 would be great with a reliable engine.
i was not impressed by the rx7 cockpit layout at all. its boring but im sure there is beauty in blah :smile:
already stated wider tires change contact patch. please read post again.
Honda match the tires size to the car. With the extra weight on the back of the nsx, the tire patch distrabution is not the issue here.
if it called for bigger tires, im sure Honda & Zanardi would have made adjustments.
No one said HP = slalom speed. Please reread post. Its about the handling, supra handles better in stock forum. Its a fact. :biggrin:
Like i said before. NSX is 2X the money of the supra.
im sure you can put some sweanky leather interior in the supra for an extra $40,000. :biggrin:
whoever started this topic should be shot. :biggrin: both cars rock. end of conversation.
apex seal is designed by the devil. rx7 would be great with a reliable engine.
Yes a supra generates more grip to overcome its heftier mass from larger tires to have a higher G and slolom number than say an NSX with lighter weight and even smaller tires.
Edit*
A little contradictory from your previous statement? So if I dont have the HP/torque to rotate the extra mass of larger wheels, then I wont get upto speed to take the slolom. So lower HP = slower speed (trying to overcome larger wheels) = lower slolom speed... Hmmm.... I was under the impression that you can enter the slolom at any speed you want that is dictated by your tires that enable you to change direction through the coned slolom, the more grip you have, the faster you can enter and procede through the slolom.
I read your 'understanding' of tire contact patch. You have a few misconceptions. I would suggest you re-read my posts, and or learn more about tires. Again, wider tires allow you to run lower tire pressure -which increases the contact patch. Also re-read my post about how a wider/narrower contact patch results in more lateral grip than a narrower/longer contact patch.
You should know that manufacturers do not make cars to their full potential. And yes the NSX could use wider tires. Why do you think they went to 215/45ZR15 up front and 245/40ZR17 rear wheels in 1994? Apparently Honda themselves thought the car needed wider tires. They went even bigger up front to fit bigger brakes. Hmm.... I guess Honda wasn't worried too much about the added rotational mass.
I guess you already know that later model NSXs had power steering too?
I agree, both are great cars.
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I've yet to hear Porsche Nazis agree to that.
It's been purported that Porsche's concerns were eliminated when they bought a handful of NSXs and tested it on their tracks.
...... The Supra's interior is all business...big-ass tach right in your face.......
PS: I had an FD once too...'94 Vintage red touring with the R1 lip. M2 ECU, MBC, Greddy PE cat back, Midpipe. Sold it with only 25k original miles
RX7s had the big tach in the center first in previous generation(s).
Everyone else copied them. :tongue: :tongue:
That's something I wished the NSX did, was to have the Tach right in the middle.
