+1
Even M3, C4S and Porsche Turbo are very common here. Other BMW's are driven by teenagers to senior citizens here in Calif.
Why are NSXs so slow to sell?
- Thread starter tbromley
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+1
Even M3, C4S and Porsche Turbo are very common here. Other BMW's are driven by teenagers to senior citizens here in Calif.
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What you are saying is that you would have paid more if the guy who sold you the car put the old stock suspension and stock wheels on. If that's the case I have a set of stock shocks and wheels from my car that I will gladly trade you straight across for.
A quick search of the NSX for Sale section shows a considerable number of supercharged NSX's in your year - some with more miles and some with about the same as your car - and all of them either sold or are asking more than you paid. Your "mods don't add value" mantra is bogus.
Of course an NSX-R clone won't be as valuable as the real thing. Nobody has ever said otherwise. But do I really have to show you the NSX R clones that have sold for more than a stock NSX to prove how wrong you are? How about the guys who dropped a twin plug 3.8 in their old 80's 911? Do I have to show those to you as well to prove that their cars are worth more than the stock old 911 that they used to be? I shouldn't have to since it's obvious to 99.99% of the world out there that if the 3.8 motor is worth $30k alone and the car complete with the old motor is only worth $15k then swapping the 3.8 in would increase the value.
These are the facts regarding mods:
1) A well modified car will be more valuable than a similar stock car
2) You will never get the full amount you paid for mods back when you sell. More like 30% to 50%
You say that modifications limit your buyer pool. I would argue that leaving the car stock limits your buyer pool too. When I went looking for a car I wanted a well modified one. Why? Well, since I knew that I would be bored with a stock one and would modify it eventually anyway why not get one that's already done? Saves me time and since Fact #2 (above) is also true I would save money of purchasing the mods separately and having them installed.
I'm actually glad you got one and are enjoying the experience. It's also fine that you don't see the "need" for more. It's the same argument people driving econoboxes often use. It is a way for the owners to excuse the vehicles shortcomings. Who needs more than a rattletrap to get them from A to B anyway? At issue though is what it takes to get you excited about driving from A to B. I guess some of us have a higher standard is all.
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All I know is that I drove my '97 Targa to a SCCA Regional this past weekend and out of all of the exotics in attendance (355's/Carrera 4S, etc), the 2 cars that got the most attention were my NSX and a brand new Nissan GT-R. The most common comment about the X was, "I have always wanted one of those. You just don't see many of them. What a beautiful car."
Why have something that's a dime a dozen like Porsches & BMWs? Even a friend of mine that started his career as a Porsche tech at Brumos admitted, "That's a hell of a car. Japanese reliability and Italian looks, hard combo to beat."
Exclusivity has its own reward. These cars will sell when the economy doesn't suck, pure and simple.
Why have something that's a dime a dozen like Porsches & BMWs? Even a friend of mine that started his career as a Porsche tech at Brumos admitted, "That's a hell of a car. Japanese reliability and Italian looks, hard combo to beat."
Exclusivity has its own reward. These cars will sell when the economy doesn't suck, pure and simple.
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:biggrin: WHOOOOOOWHO! TIM GOT AN NSX! Nice work buddy and your persistence paid off! Create a new thread with your pictures etc.!
I'm sorry but I can't understand how people think mods add to the vehicle. I'd say slight mods add to the vehicle (suspension, wheels, exhaust) but anything other than that and you will not re-coup your investment. I don't even think you'd get 30% of it back to be honest...
Everyone's different and I'm one of those who'd much prefer a stock NSX to play with on my own. I've been there and done that and much prefered it.
I'm sorry but I can't understand how people think mods add to the vehicle. I'd say slight mods add to the vehicle (suspension, wheels, exhaust) but anything other than that and you will not re-coup your investment. I don't even think you'd get 30% of it back to be honest...
Everyone's different and I'm one of those who'd much prefer a stock NSX to play with on my own. I've been there and done that and much prefered it.
What does "well modified" mean? Buyer and seller must agree on this meaning (whatever it is). If the buyer doesn't like the wonderful mods the previous owner made, has doubts about the workmanship or integrity of the mods, guess what, it's not well modified. Unless the buyer shares the taste of the guy who modded the car, it will be less valuable.
Also, merely taking into account asking prices in the NSX Prime marketplace section is not a true indicator of the overall NSX market. The listings of many cars, when sold, do not mention the actual selling price. Many edit out the last asking price, or replace the entire ad altogether with "SOLD!", so one has no idea what the car might have sold for or what mods it may have had.
I think modded cars, especially the chopped up ones with widebody kits, 02 conversions, carputers in the dash, etc. are seriously devalued, especially in the long term as collectibles. Add into the mix the slow but sure depreciation of the car over time, and the global economic slowdown, and sellers of modded cars, "well" modded or not, are at a disadvantage compared to sellers of unmolested examples.
For example, the BBSC really hurt this one, but you get the idea:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=106993
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For every one like that there are 10 like this:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105943&highlight=ctsc
More than double the miles of Tim's car and sold for more money. Wonder why? Couldn't be the mods now could it?
Hey Guys,
The example Solaracer shows sold for what - didn't see the sell price - asking 35k - did he get it. Serious mods for a youngster speedracer! Not for the more astute car owner. No way. Now mine actually was offered in two places - autotrader for 30k and Prime for 28.5k- with less than half the miles of the red souped up one - which some would find appealing I guess. No serious car collector unless he wanted a fun track toy.
Let's take Porsches and go to the mods you mention - twin plugs etc- over a completely stock perfectly maintained low mile original 70s model - no way the moded twin plug would have either the appeal or demand the price of the original - no way. All you have to do is look at the prices and even try and find a twin plug for sale - usually some clone thing. No way in the world of classic Porsche.
How bout the the white one that sold recently for 36k under valued absolutely sold in 12 hours completely stock and he could have gotten 40k + without a doubt!!!! That car was a one of in the country for sale not to be seen for another who knows how long - they never ever come up like that. Just to give you an example of what most would say is a "crack crazed individual" selling a 93 with 12k original miles - the guy started out at 39,900, went to 42k and now it's at 49k - crazy? - perhaps we'll see. Point is no moded 93 with a supercharger and higher miles would have a chance of being higher priced than this "loon" has his priced.
Mods are at best for the particular few.
Now if you, solaracer, would like my Eibach springs with 8k miles on them - I'll be glad to sell them to you for a good price! I won't ever need them. They don't work for me. Won't part with the Comptech headers though. I might even sell my wheels - not sure yet - need to use up the rubber. But I may go back to the stock wheels - I guarantee I'll try them!
This car is, in it's pure form, a great car - better than great! It makes no difference if I like stock and others want moded - feel good about what you like - it is not a "higher or lower standard" - it is pure preference; that's all. I'm not comparing an eco box here - but who's gonna mod their Nissan Elantra- not many! I'm talking about a pure bread sports car designed well from the start with all the "usable" power one needs. If you want more - fine- mod to your hearts content and do it for yourself - not resale cause you'll be dissapointed - and no one really trusts a car that has been super moded cause they're afraid of abuse.
But like I say it's all good - do what makes you happy- it really doesn't matter to me what other folks do with their cars. I just think they are the greatest machine ever designed for public consumption.
Yeeeehaaaa, that's what I'll be saying when I get my car back from my ace mechanic after about 5k in things I'm doing. It still will be a good deal at 34k when I'm finished and the stuff I'm doing I believe adds value and will help resale but I won't loose money on great maintenance only on reasonable depreciation due to use.
My two cents,
Tim - the adventure begins!!!!!
The example Solaracer shows sold for what - didn't see the sell price - asking 35k - did he get it. Serious mods for a youngster speedracer! Not for the more astute car owner. No way. Now mine actually was offered in two places - autotrader for 30k and Prime for 28.5k- with less than half the miles of the red souped up one - which some would find appealing I guess. No serious car collector unless he wanted a fun track toy.
Let's take Porsches and go to the mods you mention - twin plugs etc- over a completely stock perfectly maintained low mile original 70s model - no way the moded twin plug would have either the appeal or demand the price of the original - no way. All you have to do is look at the prices and even try and find a twin plug for sale - usually some clone thing. No way in the world of classic Porsche.
How bout the the white one that sold recently for 36k under valued absolutely sold in 12 hours completely stock and he could have gotten 40k + without a doubt!!!! That car was a one of in the country for sale not to be seen for another who knows how long - they never ever come up like that. Just to give you an example of what most would say is a "crack crazed individual" selling a 93 with 12k original miles - the guy started out at 39,900, went to 42k and now it's at 49k - crazy? - perhaps we'll see. Point is no moded 93 with a supercharger and higher miles would have a chance of being higher priced than this "loon" has his priced.
Mods are at best for the particular few.
Now if you, solaracer, would like my Eibach springs with 8k miles on them - I'll be glad to sell them to you for a good price! I won't ever need them. They don't work for me. Won't part with the Comptech headers though. I might even sell my wheels - not sure yet - need to use up the rubber. But I may go back to the stock wheels - I guarantee I'll try them!
This car is, in it's pure form, a great car - better than great! It makes no difference if I like stock and others want moded - feel good about what you like - it is not a "higher or lower standard" - it is pure preference; that's all. I'm not comparing an eco box here - but who's gonna mod their Nissan Elantra- not many! I'm talking about a pure bread sports car designed well from the start with all the "usable" power one needs. If you want more - fine- mod to your hearts content and do it for yourself - not resale cause you'll be dissapointed - and no one really trusts a car that has been super moded cause they're afraid of abuse.
But like I say it's all good - do what makes you happy- it really doesn't matter to me what other folks do with their cars. I just think they are the greatest machine ever designed for public consumption.
Yeeeehaaaa, that's what I'll be saying when I get my car back from my ace mechanic after about 5k in things I'm doing. It still will be a good deal at 34k when I'm finished and the stuff I'm doing I believe adds value and will help resale but I won't loose money on great maintenance only on reasonable depreciation due to use.
My two cents,
Tim - the adventure begins!!!!!
The NSX's do sell pretty regularly, even in this depressed market. I just bought one, after looking for six months, and I saw a lot of them sell, especially the ones that were in good shape and priced well. In fact, I wanted to buy a car in Maryland that came on the market on a Sunday night. I called Monday and set up a pre-purchase inspection for Wednesday morning. The car sold Tuesday. One reason that some cars don't sell is that the owners ask a high price because they don't really want to part with their cars. I remember one prime member saying he would reluctantly sell a 1998 for $44,000, which is a somewhat high price for a 98. Most cars in good shape with low prices sell quickly. An exception is bangbangs yellow 03, which is a beautiful car at a great price. I wanted to buy that car a couple of months ago, but my wife objected to yellow, so I bit my tongue and didn't make an offer.
I agree for the most part on the stock form of the NSX. The more you mod the car the less people will want to buy it from you. A stock NSX is more of a collectors car to be sure. When you do a custom turbo kit for your NSX or any car for that matter you are doing it all for youself. That car will not sell nearly as well. You might get what you ask for the car but you will never get close to what you paid to make your car that way.
I think putting Comptech parts on your Honda cars is the safest mod out there. A CTSC is the best bet for modding your car and getting money back. Comptech and Honda go together well even for the guy that wants a stock car he can understand that. When I modded my 335i I went the Dinan route for resale value as well as warranty. Dinan is pricey just like Comptech but it gives you piece of mind and warranty stability. My car is still covered for 4 years or 50,000 miles so that is nice.
I think putting Comptech parts on your Honda cars is the safest mod out there. A CTSC is the best bet for modding your car and getting money back. Comptech and Honda go together well even for the guy that wants a stock car he can understand that. When I modded my 335i I went the Dinan route for resale value as well as warranty. Dinan is pricey just like Comptech but it gives you piece of mind and warranty stability. My car is still covered for 4 years or 50,000 miles so that is nice.
You guys haven't touched on a major subject of modifications yet; the skill of the installer. Sure, for a set of wheels or headers it won't really make a huge difference (provided they stay fastened to the car if course)if you slap them on or take the time to spit polish and lovingly install them. However, when you are looking at a component that is highly dependent on the skill of the mechanic, you may be entering a world of unknown horrors.
Look at our buddy Greg Z (I think?) who blew his motor up on the first drive, do you think that if he took it to a competent tuner prior to driving it a) he would have bought it b) he could have saved the motor? I think at least one of these statements would be true.
The second thing, I won't even consider when buying a car is if safety items have been mucked with. What happens if that BBK had its line cross threaded during installation and lets go at 100+ mph at turn 2 in Mosport? You're fornicated, that's what. With that being said, I do trust myself to do that, as it's my life directly at stake, and there is NO way I would ever cut corners in this regard.
I would purchase a car that has been lightly modified (I/H/E, wheels etc), but my final buying price will most certainly reflect any changes that I would have to make to tailor the car to my taste.
I am most definitely not afraid to modify my own vehicles, and have done so extensively in the past, but to even consider for a moment that you can recoup your divestment is an absolute asinine theory. When you modify a car, you need to both educate and come to the realization that you are only doing it for one person. Nobody on the planet has the exact same taste in cars that you do.
Anyhow, back to the original topic, why are they slow to sell? I for one, am waiting another few months to see if the market is at the bottom, or are subject to another drop. That and being a buyers market makes the sellers realize that if they do want to sell they'll have to take a much bigger depreciation hit than they did last year at this time.
Look at our buddy Greg Z (I think?) who blew his motor up on the first drive, do you think that if he took it to a competent tuner prior to driving it a) he would have bought it b) he could have saved the motor? I think at least one of these statements would be true.
The second thing, I won't even consider when buying a car is if safety items have been mucked with. What happens if that BBK had its line cross threaded during installation and lets go at 100+ mph at turn 2 in Mosport? You're fornicated, that's what. With that being said, I do trust myself to do that, as it's my life directly at stake, and there is NO way I would ever cut corners in this regard.
I would purchase a car that has been lightly modified (I/H/E, wheels etc), but my final buying price will most certainly reflect any changes that I would have to make to tailor the car to my taste.
I am most definitely not afraid to modify my own vehicles, and have done so extensively in the past, but to even consider for a moment that you can recoup your divestment is an absolute asinine theory. When you modify a car, you need to both educate and come to the realization that you are only doing it for one person. Nobody on the planet has the exact same taste in cars that you do.
Anyhow, back to the original topic, why are they slow to sell? I for one, am waiting another few months to see if the market is at the bottom, or are subject to another drop. That and being a buyers market makes the sellers realize that if they do want to sell they'll have to take a much bigger depreciation hit than they did last year at this time.
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:biggrin:
Hi Tim, congrats on the NSX! I gotta chime in here - this argument is very subjective and the people who 'argue' either side are really wasting time. There's no blanket right or wrong here. Tim, I see your point, but also your car *is* modified (in all the right places I might add). You may not care (though I'm sure you like the extra power those headers give you), because you're more of a 'collector guy'. Other people are 'track nuts', and then there are the 'show and go' crowd.
I'd also like to make a point regarding the EVO, WRX, etc. thing, I realize you don't care about them. But in the beginning of this post you did ask why NSX's sell slower. It's because many people *do* go for the faster cars, cars that look great on paper, etc etc. Many people surely don't get it. That is absolutely a factor to why NSX's take longer to sell, they are specialty. "Why in the heck would anyone buy an 18 year old car that is slower than my EVO (with an $2000 in mods) around a track?". A different mentality that's all. IMHO the buyer crowd who 'gets it' when it comes to the NSX is much smaller than the buyer crowd who do not 'get it' :biggrin:
Regarding the 911 with 3.8 transplant. For one he was talking about an 80's 911 - or he could just as well been talking about a run of the mill 70's 911 *after* 73. 74-77 911's aren't worth that much. 80-83 911's are doing ok. 84+ seem to be doing pretty good. I would say the market for a transplanted 911 would be smaller as well, but would *absolutely* command a significantly higher price to it's niche buyer, the track junkie (and it's a growing niche). There is no doubt in my mind about that, and I've been in the Porsche market for some time now.
All this being said, will a seller recoup a significant % of their mod investment. Heck no. With just about any car, unless it's some ultra rare Alpina BMW or RUF Porsche, there's no way. Can the seller recoup *some* money over a completely stock car? Absolutely - to the majority of knowlegable NSX buyers out there, the mods your car has absolutely increase the attractiveness of the car, and thus the price.
But it always comes down to the buyer - Tim, I think you tend to be a bit more of an exception than a rule. But then again that's just *my* opinion
In the end nobody is right or wrong on this, and this 'argument' will never be settled. Forget about what anyone else says. If you are a collector, go fawn over your car, keep it shiny and maintained, and take it for nice enjoyable cruises about the country side. If you're a track junkie, take it to your local track, set it up, and then rip it up. If you're into show cars, load your NSX down with speakers..amps..lights..20" rims... and make the track guys cringe :biggrin:
Hi Tim, congrats on the NSX! I gotta chime in here - this argument is very subjective and the people who 'argue' either side are really wasting time. There's no blanket right or wrong here. Tim, I see your point, but also your car *is* modified (in all the right places I might add). You may not care (though I'm sure you like the extra power those headers give you), because you're more of a 'collector guy'. Other people are 'track nuts', and then there are the 'show and go' crowd.
I'd also like to make a point regarding the EVO, WRX, etc. thing, I realize you don't care about them. But in the beginning of this post you did ask why NSX's sell slower. It's because many people *do* go for the faster cars, cars that look great on paper, etc etc. Many people surely don't get it. That is absolutely a factor to why NSX's take longer to sell, they are specialty. "Why in the heck would anyone buy an 18 year old car that is slower than my EVO (with an $2000 in mods) around a track?". A different mentality that's all. IMHO the buyer crowd who 'gets it' when it comes to the NSX is much smaller than the buyer crowd who do not 'get it' :biggrin:
Regarding the 911 with 3.8 transplant. For one he was talking about an 80's 911 - or he could just as well been talking about a run of the mill 70's 911 *after* 73. 74-77 911's aren't worth that much. 80-83 911's are doing ok. 84+ seem to be doing pretty good. I would say the market for a transplanted 911 would be smaller as well, but would *absolutely* command a significantly higher price to it's niche buyer, the track junkie (and it's a growing niche). There is no doubt in my mind about that, and I've been in the Porsche market for some time now.
All this being said, will a seller recoup a significant % of their mod investment. Heck no. With just about any car, unless it's some ultra rare Alpina BMW or RUF Porsche, there's no way. Can the seller recoup *some* money over a completely stock car? Absolutely - to the majority of knowlegable NSX buyers out there, the mods your car has absolutely increase the attractiveness of the car, and thus the price.
But it always comes down to the buyer - Tim, I think you tend to be a bit more of an exception than a rule. But then again that's just *my* opinion
In the end nobody is right or wrong on this, and this 'argument' will never be settled. Forget about what anyone else says. If you are a collector, go fawn over your car, keep it shiny and maintained, and take it for nice enjoyable cruises about the country side. If you're a track junkie, take it to your local track, set it up, and then rip it up. If you're into show cars, load your NSX down with speakers..amps..lights..20" rims... and make the track guys cringe :biggrin:Hey B,
Your exactly right there is no right or wrong - I thought I tried to say that in my last but it may not have come across like that.
I do hope the Solaracer buys my Eibach springs though. Anyone know what they should sell for???
Ok back to the string here. Moded Porsches sell to niche buyers - totally correct as is the case with any moded car. That's just plain and simple. Niche buyers by the definition put them in a minority catagory. Hence the number that really mod their Porsches but there are a lot more Porsches out there - right. So lots of guys moding their NSXs here - more than the norm for exotic super cars, imho. Anyone hear of moding an Aston Martin - no don't think so. How bout that new V8 Alfa Romeo - mmmmm naaah, or maybe a GT3 ----not, personalizing is different. So the strength of the market is definitely in unmoded cars - for the fear factor if nothing else that Sean mentioned - fear of "who" did the work. Another fear factor - how did the guy that moded his car drive it - real fast and rough????? That is why the guy that bought that SC model that blew up is lamenting his purchase and maybe even the reason for the purchase....don't you think?
Just things to worry about but in the end as I said it's what the person buying likes - be happy, that's all we are looking for being happy with what we have. It would be a mighty boring place if we all wanted the same thing. I hope Solaracer has what he wants and I hope he wants my Eibach springs????
I can't wait to get back into my new old NSX. What a great car!
See ya'll
Your exactly right there is no right or wrong - I thought I tried to say that in my last but it may not have come across like that.
I do hope the Solaracer buys my Eibach springs though. Anyone know what they should sell for???
Ok back to the string here. Moded Porsches sell to niche buyers - totally correct as is the case with any moded car. That's just plain and simple. Niche buyers by the definition put them in a minority catagory. Hence the number that really mod their Porsches but there are a lot more Porsches out there - right. So lots of guys moding their NSXs here - more than the norm for exotic super cars, imho. Anyone hear of moding an Aston Martin - no don't think so. How bout that new V8 Alfa Romeo - mmmmm naaah, or maybe a GT3 ----not, personalizing is different. So the strength of the market is definitely in unmoded cars - for the fear factor if nothing else that Sean mentioned - fear of "who" did the work. Another fear factor - how did the guy that moded his car drive it - real fast and rough????? That is why the guy that bought that SC model that blew up is lamenting his purchase and maybe even the reason for the purchase....don't you think?
Just things to worry about but in the end as I said it's what the person buying likes - be happy, that's all we are looking for being happy with what we have. It would be a mighty boring place if we all wanted the same thing. I hope Solaracer has what he wants and I hope he wants my Eibach springs????
I can't wait to get back into my new old NSX. What a great car!
See ya'll
For every one like that there are 10 like this:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105943&highlight=ctsc
More than double the miles of Tim's car and sold for more money. Wonder why? Couldn't be the mods now could it?
And the actual selling price was...?
Russ, I paid him his asking price on Prime Market - 28,500. I'll have 5k in repairs and maintenance but will have more than some would say is required but that car will feel very much different when I get it back than when I left it there. It will feel new! OR pretty darned close.
I just want to be totally happy with no regrets that I didn't do something that I'll have to do later or chinced on something marginal.
The seller had this car on the market for 6 mos. He should have come down a bit more in my opinion. He has no idea what I'm doing to the car, except the TB/WP. I wasn't sure I would put back the original springs cause on the highway it handled fine but in daily use I would definitely have problems with the height of the car and personally for the street, the car was too stiff. There are just too many irregular serfaces for me to risk other damage.
Tim
I just want to be totally happy with no regrets that I didn't do something that I'll have to do later or chinced on something marginal.
The seller had this car on the market for 6 mos. He should have come down a bit more in my opinion. He has no idea what I'm doing to the car, except the TB/WP. I wasn't sure I would put back the original springs cause on the highway it handled fine but in daily use I would definitely have problems with the height of the car and personally for the street, the car was too stiff. There are just too many irregular serfaces for me to risk other damage.
Tim
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Sorta disagree here - there is no strength of 'the market'. There are many markets. Many buyers. There are people looking for a super clean stock 911SC for collectability wouldn't touch the 3.8 transplant car. There are people who want a FAST track beast who are looking for transplant cars and likely wouldn't want to mess around with a stock SC (reasoning being, let someone else take the biggest hit for the mods). There are probably people who look at both, though this crowd is much smaller. There are people who will look for only Porsche, because they are Porsche loyalists. There are people who, ahem, think Porsche is overrated and preach the unbeatable virtues of the NSX :wink: I don't think there is a very large 'stock EVO collector' market out there (though I'm sure there is one). There are many many markets, many many types of buyers. I personally think it's a waste of time trying to classify such things - I guess my answer to the original post is, the NSX 'market' is relatively small.
We think too much, and don't drive enough! Enjoy your new car and be happy you're one of the ones who 'get it'
As one said there is no end to this rant on what the "market strength" is, what a niche buyer is or what is the percentage of buyers looking for mods or stock..... right. So with that said my point was that the non moded market or the number of people that prefer non moded cars is greater than the "niche" buyers, has always been true and will always be true. You can't show me any proof to the contrary. The predominance of the cars on the market are non moded- period. That is an easy peasy answer and easy to verify. Our market on prime is atypical, not like auto trader or AOL.com, cars.com, etc. The predominance of NSXs for sale are stock - that's just the facts.
There are many markets but they aren't the same size. Anyway, everyone should be happy with what they want and not trying to necessarily say one is better than another mod or OEM. I've said that before. That's why I would say that the stock cars most likely sell faster than the moded ones cause the buying pool is smaller. It's all off right now, people are scared to purchase luxo items.
There are many markets but they aren't the same size. Anyway, everyone should be happy with what they want and not trying to necessarily say one is better than another mod or OEM. I've said that before. That's why I would say that the stock cars most likely sell faster than the moded ones cause the buying pool is smaller. It's all off right now, people are scared to purchase luxo items.
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Well then that's the answer to your original question, why do NSX's sell so slowly :biggrin:
I'm in the market to purchase a NSX right now. The problem I see is spending ~$25-30k for a 18 year old car with approximately 100k miles. I could go out and purchase a new Nissan 370Z which "on paper" performs as well or better than a NSX, has 0 miles, and has a full factory warranty. The 370Z also is a nice looking car and handles very well.
I would rather have a NSX, but with a 100k mile car, I would have to budget for inevitable repairs. So, if I have to stash away $300 extra a month for maintenance & anticipated repairs.. this would make a $30k used NSX similar in cost of ownership to a new $40k car.
Also, most enthusiasts over value their cars. Since most NSX owners are enthusiasts, IMO, most NSX prices are a bit high.
I would rather have a NSX, but with a 100k mile car, I would have to budget for inevitable repairs. So, if I have to stash away $300 extra a month for maintenance & anticipated repairs.. this would make a $30k used NSX similar in cost of ownership to a new $40k car.
Also, most enthusiasts over value their cars. Since most NSX owners are enthusiasts, IMO, most NSX prices are a bit high.
Where were you a year ago? The prices were WAY higher. I think NSXs are cheap now. In 3 years from now a 370z will probably be worth less than half what you paid for it while our $25-30k NSXs will still be worth something. The NSX will be even more rare in a few years while there will be thousands of 370s all over the place. Everyone will jump to the 390z making the old car instantly lame, meanwhile our NSXs will be just as cool as before
You have to consider that these were basically $100k cars when new. That is a long damn way to depreciate. The 370 might be faster, but when the roads are full of ones identical to yours you'll be busy thinking about other things rather than how fast it is compared to an nsx. :wink:
The people going down the road staring at my NSX have no idea it probably cost less than the Camry they're driving.
If we all cared about just going fast for as little money as possible we'd all be driving overboosted 4cyl Hondas or Nissans with gutted interiors.
I personally wouldn't want to daily drive my NSX. As much as I love mine I would not recommend it as your only vehicle. I guess the real question is if you are looking for a car to daily drive into the ground and replace in a few years or whether you want to keep it. As many here always tell people asking these same questions, if you can't pay cash for the car you probably shouldn't buy it.
I agree with Cosmo...
Believe me, you won't need $300 a month for maintenence and repairs if you buy the right car. Just have to save money for tires and oil changes. :wink:
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My car already has coil overs (Koni's w/adjustable perches and stiffer springs) but I will trade your Eibachs for my old stock springs. In fact, to prove a point I want an extra $100 over your Eibachs since stock is so much more value than modified. What say you?
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:biggrin:
Hi Tim, congrats on the NSX! I gotta chime in here - this argument is very subjective and the people who 'argue' either side are really wasting time. There's no blanket right or wrong here. Tim, I see your point, but also your car *is* modified (in all the right places I might add). You may not care (though I'm sure you like the extra power those headers give you), because you're more of a 'collector guy'. Other people are 'track nuts', and then there are the 'show and go' crowd.
I'd also like to make a point regarding the EVO, WRX, etc. thing, I realize you don't care about them. But in the beginning of this post you did ask why NSX's sell slower. It's because many people *do* go for the faster cars, cars that look great on paper, etc etc. Many people surely don't get it. That is absolutely a factor to why NSX's take longer to sell, they are specialty. "Why in the heck would anyone buy an 18 year old car that is slower than my EVO (with an $2000 in mods) around a track?". A different mentality that's all. IMHO the buyer crowd who 'gets it' when it comes to the NSX is much smaller than the buyer crowd who do not 'get it' :biggrin:
Regarding the 911 with 3.8 transplant. For one he was talking about an 80's 911 - or he could just as well been talking about a run of the mill 70's 911 *after* 73. 74-77 911's aren't worth that much. 80-83 911's are doing ok. 84+ seem to be doing pretty good. I would say the market for a transplanted 911 would be smaller as well, but would *absolutely* command a significantly higher price to it's niche buyer, the track junkie (and it's a growing niche). There is no doubt in my mind about that, and I've been in the Porsche market for some time now.
All this being said, will a seller recoup a significant % of their mod investment. Heck no. With just about any car, unless it's some ultra rare Alpina BMW or RUF Porsche, there's no way. Can the seller recoup *some* money over a completely stock car? Absolutely - to the majority of knowlegable NSX buyers out there, the mods your car has absolutely increase the attractiveness of the car, and thus the price.
But it always comes down to the buyer - Tim, I think you tend to be a bit more of an exception than a rule. But then again that's just *my* opinion
Good to know someone is the voice of reason besides me. Everything above is exactly what I am getting at. Special limited editions are probably the only exception to the rule (Zanardi's, Type R, Carrera RSR, Shelby Mustang, Yenko Camaro, etc.) because they have the best chance of being collectible. I think people are deluding themselves if they think a 91 NSX is going to become a valuable collector item.
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I pulled up to a newer 911 convertible - same colour as my 91 - at a red light the other day.
Two younger kids on bikes started crossing in front of us at the intesection. Both kids stopped right in front of the NSX with mouths wide open. "WOW LOOK AT THE CAR!", "NICE CAR MISTER" etc etc. They continued gawking and pointing as they crossed the intersection without even noticing the 911 which probably costs at least 5x as much.
The Porsche owner was visible insulted at not being noticed, and peeled off at full throttle when the light changed.
I found it amusing.
Personally, I find it almost uncomfortable driving the NSX inside the city due to the fact that the car is constantly the center of attention. I really didn't expect that when I bought the car, I figured only gear heads would notice it. I had a 70+yr old lady call out "nice car" the other day. I can't even imagine what the Fcar/Lambo guys have to deal with on a daily basis.
On thread, the slow sellers are simply because owners typically want to much for them and there are few cash buyers out there. Properly priced cars sell very quickly.
Only true enthusiasts would drop $20-30K cash on an NSX, most normal non-gearheads would just use that money as a deposit on a newer BMW/Merc/Ferrari.
It's a very small niche market, that's all. Timeless looks and good reliability are two things that will never go out of style.
Solaracer951,
To prove a point on springs - you have no point! I already have the stock OEM springs that came on my car which are going back on as we speak. I'll sell em to you for 250 or anyone else that might want them. If you don't need them why on earth would you make such a silly offer.
However, your point is actually well put - mods you make to your car will not be recouped unless they are necessary maintenance issues/upkeep unless you find some young guy that is convinced as you must be that your car needs help and more performance and a real nice stiffer ride so you can enjoy street driving and the looks of your own car.
Most onlookers wouldn't know the difference in a lowered car vs a stock ride height. Anyone that uses the NSX as a daily driver at all would most lilely after a while get tired of that "stiff" ride anyway. It takes someone that wants a "ride" for a purpose as in track performance. Unless all your roads are perfect where you live and none are really.
It's all for the individual. No cars really unless kept off the road would be candidates for collectors - with everything perfect - interior, paint, low miles, really low miles. Even then NSXs are for a particular group of folks. When the economy picks up these cars will find more buyers. Still the ones that will have the best chance of selling are those that are well maintained - no matter what's been done to them. Still OEM will rule as it always does unless you are lucky enough to find someone that really knows and likes the mods you have made, even then they'll want your car for OEM price! So when anyone takes on mods - do them for yourself , not resale.
The NSX will however one day if not already be regarded as an art form not merely an automobile. It is one of the most significant cars ever built for mass consumption - even at 8500 + cars imported here. We are the privledged few that own these cars that understand what others may be missing. In the end just having one is great and they're all good!
To prove a point on springs - you have no point! I already have the stock OEM springs that came on my car which are going back on as we speak. I'll sell em to you for 250 or anyone else that might want them. If you don't need them why on earth would you make such a silly offer.
However, your point is actually well put - mods you make to your car will not be recouped unless they are necessary maintenance issues/upkeep unless you find some young guy that is convinced as you must be that your car needs help and more performance and a real nice stiffer ride so you can enjoy street driving and the looks of your own car.
Most onlookers wouldn't know the difference in a lowered car vs a stock ride height. Anyone that uses the NSX as a daily driver at all would most lilely after a while get tired of that "stiff" ride anyway. It takes someone that wants a "ride" for a purpose as in track performance. Unless all your roads are perfect where you live and none are really.
It's all for the individual. No cars really unless kept off the road would be candidates for collectors - with everything perfect - interior, paint, low miles, really low miles. Even then NSXs are for a particular group of folks. When the economy picks up these cars will find more buyers. Still the ones that will have the best chance of selling are those that are well maintained - no matter what's been done to them. Still OEM will rule as it always does unless you are lucky enough to find someone that really knows and likes the mods you have made, even then they'll want your car for OEM price! So when anyone takes on mods - do them for yourself , not resale.
The NSX will however one day if not already be regarded as an art form not merely an automobile. It is one of the most significant cars ever built for mass consumption - even at 8500 + cars imported here. We are the privledged few that own these cars that understand what others may be missing. In the end just having one is great and they're all good!
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