since the old thread got deleted....

[nsxlr8]

I won my class autocrossing scca in 1999. I LOVE tracking my car much more than the 1/4 mile. BUT..... I've gone from a 13.8 (first run) to a 13.247 - Both bone stock. '91 5spd.
I've done intake and exhaust. NO headers. Lightened up the car a bit. (Full interior and all that. no uglyness here.) My time slips are now around 12.7. (without the extra 250hp two stage nitrous)
Like Dave said. It can be just plain fun.

Sticking to the topic. It was funny. A few of us here in Texas dynoed our nsx's at NSteXpo. The bbsc pulled the largest hp number but.... Interesting phenomenon. like the Gruppe M. There's a ridiculously rich spot in the revs. It just happens to be right where the shifting points seems to be. maybe it was just this one, or maybe Mark has it worked out by now. (I hope so) but, the car just has no umph when it's shifted. It's so bogged down with fuel that it just has to balls when it's shifted. power under the curve is just so damn important. Peak doesn't mean shit sometimes. The best way is to average the "usable" horspower from dyno graph to dyno graph. 4500 rpms and up.

End result. the bbsc felt like my old stock car on a 100 shot of gas. Just not the immediate torquey shifts. but the power most definately sets in. I think it should run 116mph on any 5spd 3.0 liters.

Please don't flame my spelling. too much to say and not enough time to care.

 

[NSXGOD]

Originally posted by Smoothaccel:
Obviously, most of you have a lot to comment about when there is a BB supercharger involved. I am not "ripping" on anyone here, I have a lot of respect for all NSX owners, just stating what I see. Now, I am not big fan of drag racing my nsx, but I defenitely like 1/4 mile times. Don't ask me why, but I must ask the burning question: WHAT IS THE 1/4 MILE TIME OF A 91/92 NSX WITH NO OTHER MODS BUT A BB SC?? I would love to know this.

The reason that this information has not been posted anywhere is that no one has done it yet. Personally, I don't care about the 1/4 mile time or the 60ft burn out spec or any of that - and don't engage in the "Rice Rocket stop light Grand Prix wars" either. I just run the car at the track, and whatever gets me around quicker is what I want - but I'm sure that someone that does care will test their installation at some point and post to the Forums.

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[SNDSOUL]

It shouldn't matter whether you "care" about 1/4 mile times or not; your customers care and that should be where your focus is. Your testing should be complete whether you like that particular part of the test or not. This one number will make my decision on buying this unit or not and I obviously am not the only one who is concerned. What are you scared of? Run the car already. I have the money and the interest in the product, make me a customer.

 

[David]

Originally posted by NSXGOD:
Personally, I don't care about the 1/4 mile time or the 60ft burn out spec or any of that - and don't engage in the "Rice Rocket stop light Grand Prix wars" either.

Mark,

I like open track racing better than drag racing too, but to call it 'rice rocket GP' is just demeaning and pretty arrogant.

Personally, I believe that the ability to accelerate is one of the defining characteristics of any sports car. Maybe not the most important one, but certainly a fundamental attribute. A full time slip from a representative 1/4 mile run is probably the best way to evalutate that fundamental characteristic of the car. If you don't believe acceleration matters, that's fine; but get off your high horse about it.

 

[8000RPM]

Originally posted by nsxlr8:
I've gone from a 13.8 (first run) to a 13.247 - Both bone stock. '91 5spd.

13.24 on a bone stock 3.0 is VERY impressive. What was your trap speed?

I am curious as to how you managed to cut your times by more than half a second with no modifications. Were you on slicks for the 13.2 run?


[This message has been edited by 8000RPM (edited 17 April 2002).]

[This message has been edited by 8000RPM (edited 17 April 2002).]

 

[Michigan NSX]

Originally posted by David:
Mark,

I like open track racing better than drag racing too, but to call it 'rice rocket GP' is just demeaning and pretty arrogant.

David, I believe you left out two words of Mark's phrase - and in my opinion the two most important words - stop light. I took this to mean "street racing" not legitimate drag racing. However, I could be wrong as I am not into drag racing whatsover (Formula 1 for me). Is a "Stop Light Gran Prix" slang for a legitimate drag race?

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'91 Black/Black

 

[David]

Originally posted by Michigan NSX:
Is a "Stop Light Gran Prix" slang for a legitimate drag race?

No - that is the point. He is grouping a request for 1/4 mile data with illegal street racing. And throwing in terms like 'rice' just for good measure.

[This message has been edited by David (edited 17 April 2002).]

 

[NSXGOD]

Originally posted by SNDSOUL:
It shouldn't matter whether you "care" about 1/4 mile times or not; your customers care and that should be where your focus is. Your testing should be complete whether you like that particular part of the test or not. This one number will make my decision on buying this unit or not and I obviously am not the only one who is concerned. What are you scared of? Run the car already. I have the money and the interest in the product, make me a customer.

hah - like I'm "scared" of any of the "other kits". I had a Gruppe M on my car previously, and Mark Basch had a CT "9psi" kit which I drove extensively. The Beta 1.0 BBSC was faster at the track than either; and the B and C kits that are in the works will easily push my car past 475RWHP with complete street drivability. Drop by NSXPO if you are interested and see it.

As for the 1/4 mile test, I don't see that information posted anywhere by Comptech or Gruppe M. And it would mean nothing unless the same car was tested by the same driver on the same course on the same day with each kit.

I can't see that happening anytime soon.

------------------
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[NSXGOD]

Originally posted by David:
Mark,
I like open track racing better than drag racing too, but to call it 'rice rocket GP' is just demeaning and pretty arrogant.

Do you race every sticker'd Eclipse the comes up next to you? I don't, and that was what I was referring too, as well as the rest of the Fast & Furious crowd.

Personally, I believe that the ability to accelerate is one of the defining characteristics of any sports car. Maybe not the most important one, but certainly a fundamental attribute. A full time slip from a representative 1/4 mile run is probably the best way to evalutate that fundamental characteristic of the car. If you don't believe acceleration matters, that's fine; but get off your high horse about it.

We don't have standing starts in our track events so being the first one to the first corner is not of over riding conern to me.
AND since passing people at the track is not allowed in the corners most of the time in our events, having a little extra zip to get by with plenty of track left is always helpful.

However, you need to be able to be fast everywhere in the track, not just on the straight, since there are more turns usually.

In case you missed the last sentance:

"...but I'm sure that someone that does care will test their installation at some point and post to the Forums.."

All you would be testing by doing a 1/4 mile run would be the results obtainable by that driver in that particular car on that day.



------------------
need more info? please private me @

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[Carguy!]

This doesn't seem like rocket science to me, most every car magazine I have read tests the cars to see what they will do in the 1/4 mile. This is the way that most cars are judged for accelaration. The people here are just asking for some number on the Basch supercharger in the quarter mile.

It seems quite simple to me, get a good driver and take it to a drag strip and post the results. I am quite certain that the car will be very impressive, I am guessing it will get in the mid to high 11's. Scan in a copy of your timeslip and you will sell a few more units.

I believe you are right that some people will take their own cars out to the track and post results, but there isn't any easy way to tell if they are any good at the strip.

Whether you like it or not this is the way that a lot of people judge cars. If your stage C kit produces 475 RWHP you should be able to break into the 10's. If you posted that slip you would probably have a bunch more orders.

Good Luck!

 

[SNDSOUL]

Originally posted by NSXGOD:
hah - like I'm "scared" of any of the "other kits".

You just dont get it. I am not comparing "your kit" to anyone else's. I dont care what the CT or the Gruppe M do in the 1/4- they are not worth the money IMO. I want to know BB numbers and so does everyone else. Its a reasonable request and I think it is one that has been validated.

{b}
As for the 1/4 mile test, I don't see that information posted anywhere by Comptech or Gruppe M. And it would mean nothing unless the same car was tested by the same driver on the same course on the same day with each kit.

Great, step up to the plate and be the first one to post some numbers, call them out.

And as for the same this and same that crap, thats ridiculous. No one is asking for a set in stone time slip. I know there are variables in everything. Maybe make ten passes and take an average, hell use two drivers if it makes you feel better. It doesnt matter. Just make an effort. Go on any other enthusiast web forum and post that 1/4 mile times dont really matter for testing a performance product and see how quickly you get laughed off.


[This message has been edited by SNDSOUL (edited 18 April 2002).]

 

[ERicincal]

I too would like to know the numbers of the quarter mile.. Im not interested in street racing, or beating the guy in the Ferarri. I jut want to have a bit more fun. I am interested in buying the BBSC ( especially with tax returns coming), and I think numbers posted would help a lot of people make the decision to spend the $6000 for the kit.

We all didnt buy our NSXs without knowing what some drivers were able to squeeze out of the cars. Whether it was Automobile magazines 13.8 or Car and Drivers 14.1. Whether we can or cant isnt really important. What is important is that we know what those 6000 dollar spent are capable of

my opinion anyhow.

 

[Jimbo]

I haven't seen anything here that remotely resembles an advertisement for the BBSC or any other product for that matter.

I'd also like to point out that the BBSC is still undergoing beta testing, right?

-Jim

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1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
Looking for 76-79 Honda Accords

 

[4g62bt2c30a]

Originally posted by Jimbo:
I haven't seen anything here that remotely resembles an advertisement for the BBSC or any other product for that matter.

I'd also like to point out that the BBSC is still undergoing beta testing, right?

-Jim

Thats a good joke jim...... It was a joke right?

 

[Jimbo]

Dear 4,

No, it was not a joke.

There's a difference between an ad/spam and someone responding to speculation, questions, etc.

The NSX community is a small tight knit group of people. There are a number of resellers and manufacturers who frequent this forum and I've rarely seen a post where someone stepped over the line. The vast majority of manufacturers and resellers on this forum answer questions, provide useful and informative information and occasionally provide a link to their product or service - and that's certainly reasonable and acceptable.

Even though the BBSC was still undergoing beta testing there were several people who persisted in complaining, speculating and challenging certain people.

And when these people tried to respond and to keep people updated with information they now get critcized for advertising. Hmmph.

It's a no-win situation and the attitudes of a few people who seemingly have some kind of negative agenda make me question my participation in this once pleasant forum.

<EOF>

-Jim

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1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
Looking for 76-79 Honda Accords

 

[SCS2k]

Originally posted by true:
You don't see comptech nor gruppe M. using this forum as advertisment for their product. If you are gonna bash their products for your advantage, people are going to want to see numbers. Opinions don't cut it..especially rediculous ones. I really hope LUD is getting something out of each one of these kits sold to prime users. Targetted advertisment...it's perfect the way it was built up..definetly good salesmen.

I'm not taking sides here but, if you look at the bottom of this page you will see that Comptech DOES use this forum for advertising.

 

[Yellow Rose]

You don't see comptech nor gruppe M. using this forum as advertisment for their product.

************

Really? Then what do you call the streaming banner at the bottom of this page?

 

[nsxlr8]

In reply to 8000rpms question about how I dropped my times....

60' mark times are so darn crucial. The faster you start off, the more momentum you carry to the end.

Also. I speed shift. 3tenths at least was lost there. (Basically no clutch, slam it into gear faster than you can blink) - No, not good for the transmission.


The drop from 13.4 to 13.2 was due to 3 things. Perfect start, perfect shifting, and a 50 degree night.

In answer to which ever supercharged car beat which ever supercharged car on the track. Doesn't mean Dill hole. I can kick many "Instructor's" buts that have MUCH more power than my car on a track. DRIVER has so much to do with it. Not to mention who had sticky tires, what suspension, who tuned it. etc. etc. etc.

Mark, the car is fast. It really is. just take it to the 1/4 mile track. MPH is really the number everyone should look for though, not time. Because like tracking the car, 1/4 mile TIMEs have too much to do with the ability of the driver, not the car.

 

[sjs]

If what you really want is to race the ¼ mile, and that is your primary criteria, then trap speeds and ET from the strip are probably adequate. However, if what you want is an accurate indication of real world performance other than that exact distance, then they fall somewhat short. Dyno charts of course are useful, but even they do not represent the real world.

I’ve said this before, but these discussions are always a bit frustrating because I have yet to see anyone present the kind of data available today. So once again I’ll mention a very simple, practical, useful way to compare acceleration of different cars or various mods on a given car. Get a G-Cube (or similar device). What could be better than a real-time graph of acceleration, in any gear at any speed or RPM, from any speed or RPM? Certainly nothing I’ve ever read here.

 

[ilya]

As much as we always tout the numbers, when it comes to personal preference, nothing beats riding in both and coming to your own conclusions. It won't give you any facts, but it will tell what YOU find more enjoyable.
I spent a lot of time looking at graphs and numbers over the last few months. Then I took a ride in two different setups back to back and it told me everything I needed to know.

 

[NSXGOD]

Originally posted by true:
You don't see comptech nor gruppe M. using this forum as advertisment for their product.

Right, uh-huh. try searching on those subjects and see how many references to them that you get.

Originally posted by true:
If you are gonna bash their products for your advantage, people are going to want to see numbers. Opinions don't cut it..especially ridiculous ones.

I don't see me bashing anything in those posts - I've just stated my personal opinion based upon my experience with all three products under discussion in response to other personal opinions. I have also dyno tested all three kits on the same dyno, if YOU HAVE NOT, YMMV.

Unlike you, I have owned a Gruppe M SC kit and know what it can and can't do. [I also continue to offer the kits for sale on the website] I have also driven Mark Basch's "9" psi CT kit on the track many times, I know which of the 3 kits available made the car fastest, and that is why I have the BBSC on my car now - the price is not the #1 consideration for me when looking for the best track performance, that just makes it a no brainer in this particular case......for me at least - you may have a different opinion based on your lack of personal experience with the parts under discussion. I'd be happy to meet you at Texas MotorSports Ranch at NSXPO - we can start on opposite sides of the track and see who passes who first - I'll even run on street tires and you can run any slicks you like. I'm sure that "acceleration" will play some part in the result.

------------------
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[This message has been edited by NSXGOD (edited 23 April 2002).]

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by true:
You don't see comptech nor gruppe M. using this forum as advertisment for their product. If you are gonna bash their products for your advantage, people are going to want to see numbers.

Bashing? The only thing Mark J said about those products is that they don't quote performance numbers on their website. That's a far cry from bashing.

Unless you actually meant to say basching...

 

[hejo]

Originally posted by Jimbo:
It's a no-win situation and the attitudes of a few people who seemingly have some kind of negative agenda make me question my participation in this once pleasant forum.

-Jim

I agree Jim. It's been interesting watching the tone of the NSX forums. I wonder if there's any relationship to price range of used NSXs. Over 2 years ago I rarely saw the type of threads I see now.

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by hejo:
I wonder if there's any relationship to price range of used NSXs. Over 2 years ago I rarely saw the type of threads I see now.

Prices of the older NSXs haven't changed all that much in the past couple of years.

 

[NSXGOD]

Originally posted by hejo:
I agree Jim. It's been interesting watching the tone of the NSX forums. I wonder if there's any relationship to price range of used NSXs. Over 2 years ago I rarely saw the type of threads I see now.

The composition of the Forums certainly varies over time - I thought this might apply:

"...This list is to discuss NSX's in all aspects of experience. Lists tend to lean in particular directions and stifle people who have experiences and/or opinions which differ from their own. This leads to arguing, anger, bickering, being kicked off or quitting. Experience is fuller than just sightings and abductions with physical examinations. We find that dreams, telepathic messages, and good relationships with certain NSX's can also be valid as well as cattle mutilations, crop circles, reptilian rapes, etc. If you find yourself disagreeing with a particular thread, feel free to use your delete key and read those posts which fit into your own thought pattern which you find more palatable. Part of the point of this discussion is the hope of learning the broader picture rather than just our own personal experience. To do this, it is wiser to look at other view points than our own. History shows us that the popular viewpoint or consensus is not necessarily the true fact and is found later to be incorrect..."

[I substituted the letters" NSX" for "ET's" in the above paragraph - but I think it currently applies here as well -

]




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Mark Johnson, CEO of Custodial Services @ Dali Racing, a Not For Profit Company.