Should the belt be changed?

[Amused_NSX]

Hi Everyone,

I am a proud new owner of a 2003 Berlina Black NSX, which I am currently importing into Canada from the U.S.

The car currently has 17,000 miles, and seems to have been well maintained. Garage kept, all minor service up to date, etc..

After reading up on timing belt intervals, I am not sure if I should have the timing belt and waterpump changed showing that the car is close to 7 years old, but only has 17,000 miles to date.

Any positive input would be greatly appreciated.

I will do My official unveiling with pictures once it arrives. Thanks

 

[tbromley]

Hi Everyone,

I am a proud new owner of a 2003 Berlina Black NSX, which I am currently importing into Canada from the U.S.

The car currently has 17,000 miles, and seems to have been well maintained. Garage kept, all minor service up to date, etc..

After reading up on timing belt intervals, I am not sure if I should have the timing belt and waterpump changed showing that the car is close to 7 years old, but only has 17,000 miles to date.

Any positive input would be greatly appreciated.

I will do My official unveiling with pictures once it arrives. Thanks

After being on this site now for over a year I have changed my thinking somewhat. Obviously the Water pump - which is totally mileage oriented is in fine shape! I would say that even if you replaced you TB that the water pump could wait till the next TB - but that may be a little short sighted, however, the idea that a 2003 (a mere 7 years old) is going to break down due to belt needing replacement right on the year that it's "due" with only 17k miles on it is pretty rediculous since these cars are made to last and everything about them is. If it were me I would not worry one iota about replacing that belt now. Others may not agree - it's all about the "fear" factor of breakage as it surely would tear things up - but the liklihood of that happening in the next 2 years is remote.

Are you planning to track the car? Put hard miles on it - obviously you in Canada are going to have it on the road a very limited amount of time per year. Mostly it will sit I would think. Not a big issue and surely not something to worry about if you are planning to drive it home as I imagine you would - what a great drive thru Canada!

I have a 91 with 46k miles and when I got it the belt had been replaced once - but being a relative newbie I said, knowing when it had been replaced last, I better change it and so I did. Had a great mechanic on the car and did a whole bunch of things. In a way I'm glad I did cause certain things needed to be done - like the clutch - but had it not needed some things like that I may have and could have waited on the belt and WP with only about 20k miles on it - I mean these are great cars designed to go a long time between intervals and the recommended interval is designed for the worst case scenario - not the car that is only 7 years old with 17k miles barely driven 1k a year - not no way not no how! I am sure you will be fine for a couple of years, at least!

That's my take. I"ve had a lot of advice by folks over this year and a half and that's what I've gotten out of it. Take it for what it's worth.

Good luck and happy motoring - you've got a jewel! Welcome aboard!

 

[nsxtasy]

The recommendation from Acura, the folks who designed and built the car, is that the timing belt should be changed every 105,000 miles or 7 years, whichever comes first.

If you want to extend your interval beyond that specified by Acura, hey - it's your car, do whatever you want with it. But how much further are you willing to go, beyond Acura's recommendation? Do you wait an extra year? Two years??? And you need to be aware that if the timing belt breaks, you will be looking at a huge repair bill (you may have to replace the engine). Is that something you want to risk? That's what you should be thinking about in making your decision.

 

[ChopsJazz]

The recommendation from Acura, the folks who designed and built the car, is that the timing belt should be changed every 105,000 miles or 7 years, whichever comes first.

This is good advice. It may seem counter-intuitive on such a "new" car, but it is good advice nonetheless.

 

[99NCNSX]

Amused,

Here's my take on this service. I own a Black/Black 1999 NSX that I purchased 4 years ago. When purchased the car had 19k miles on it. Like yours it was just turning 7 years old, the recommended time interval for TB change. Obviously, a low mileage car with 0 track time was not a very good candidate for TB failure. But, since I expected to keep m NSX for several years, I knew I would have this expense sooner or later. I decided sooner was better. In my mind there was no reason to risk a major (very costly) problem merely to put off a somewhat minor expense (as exotic car service goes) that I would eventually incur anyway.

That's my 2 cents worth. Good luck with your NSX. You'll love these cars, by the way.

 

[warrenw]

Amused,

Here's my take on this service. I own a Black/Black 1999 NSX that I purchased 4 years ago. When purchased the car had 19k miles on it. Like yours it was just turning 7 years old, the recommended time interval for TB change. Obviously, a low mileage car with 0 track time was not a very good candidate for TB failure. But, since I expected to keep m NSX for several years, I knew I would have this expense sooner or later. I decided sooner was better. In my mind there was no reason to risk a major (very costly) problem merely to put off a somewhat minor expense (as exotic car service goes) that I would eventually incur anyway.

That's my 2 cents worth. Good luck with your NSX. You'll love these cars, by the way.

^^^^ what he said.
If you are going to keep the car for a while, and you have the money, do it. (you will have to anyways) peice of mind and important if you want to sell the car.
Can you get away with waiting? Probably, but no one knows for sure. My '91 wasn't done until 2007 at 30,500 miles. (16 years) Maybe we should survey the average timing belt change, (mileage and time)?
The answer to this question is always "change the belt". Do a search.

The worst feeling in the world would be to have that great car in your garage and not able to drive it.

 

[sidwac]

^^^^ what he said.
If you are going to keep the car for a while, and you have the money, do it. (you will have to anyways) peice of mind and important if you want to sell the car.
Can you get away with waiting? Probably, but no one knows for sure. My '91 wasn't done until 2007 at 30,500 miles. (16 years) Maybe we should survey the average timing belt change, (mileage and time)?
The answer to this question is always "change the belt". Do a search.

The worst feeling in the world would be to have that great car in your garage and not able to drive it.

TB/WP changed after 13 years and 24,000 miles. Belt looked like new and in great shape. Comfortable car was not tracked by prior 2 owners, I do not intend to track and the car was a garage queen.

I changed the belt so I could sleep at night. Assuming you do not plan to track the car, personally I'd wait at least a year or two +. Don't remember reading on this site a timing belt ever breaking.

 

[tbromley]

TB/WP changed after 13 years and 24,000 miles. Belt looked like new and in great shape. Comfortable car was not tracked by prior 2 owners, I do not intend to track and the car was a garage queen.

I changed the belt so I could sleep at night. Assuming you do not plan to track the car, personally I'd wait at least a year or two +. Don't remember reading on this site a timing belt ever breaking.

I believe that the concensus is to change the belt - 99NCNSX makes good sense - thing I was trying to say is that some would recommend you change all this before you take another step and would wring the hands off while they drove their car home under these circumstances. All I'm saying is that you are not in any, not any, immediate danger! Now do you want to do this when you get home if you plan to have your car completely serviced up for the long haul - I believe I may have said in my original post - yes. But if all your service is up to date and you do not plan on tracking your car or doing any hard ass driving and since the summer is 2 months from being over in Canada and you won't be driving the wheels off - I would surely not make it a major do or die concern.

However, like others have said if the belt breaks your in for a major repair - well of course that's true - but come on guys - I mean there are threads here that we've all read about this same topic and there are guys out there that have had their 91 for a long time and never replaced the belt and like Sidwac says - only a couple of instances of belts breaking - they were hard use circumstances. You ARE NOT IN ANY IMMEDIATE DANGER!

It is not that much money to do this service - about 1000 or so, depending on who does it - or if you're going to be doing it yourself - not an issue. Whenever you get around to it will be soon enough. A lot of this is just fear based on the disasterous effects of the belt breaking -well sure. It is recommended - there are no records to support panic or history. Up to you - there are reasons to do it for sure - impending doom - no!

 

[Amused_NSX]

Thanks for all the positive feedback guys.

I do plan on taking this car to the track for a few lapping days, but aside from that the car won't be seeing a tremendous amount of road duty because I won't using it as a daily driver.

Once the car arrives, I am going to take it to My mechanic and get his thoughts. The cost of bringing this car over has been an additional 21% on what I paid for it in USD. So it is adding up. At the same time I don't want to skimp out or negelct something if it is vital to the longevity of the car.

Once I get the exact cost on having the TB and WP replaced I can ultimately make a decision.

Thanks again. This has been a great forum through the duration of finding the right NSX.

Pics and an update are to follow!

 

[Acura NsX Pilot]

Thanks for all the positive feedback guys.

I do plan on taking this car to the track for a few lapping days, but aside from that the car won't be seeing a tremendous amount of road duty because I won't using it as a daily driver.

Once the car arrives, I am going to take it to My mechanic and get his thoughts. The cost of bringing this car over has been an additional 21% on what I paid for it in USD. So it is adding up. At the same time I don't want to skimp out or negelct something if it is vital to the longevity of the car.

Once I get the exact cost on having the TB and WP replaced I can ultimately make a decision.

Thanks again. This has been a great forum through the duration of finding the right NSX.

Pics and an update are to follow!

Most owners will work something out with you if you had pointed out that the TB,WP needs to be done, of coarse this would have to take place prior to purchase

 

[NSX-Barque]

Good discussion, as I am in a similar position. "95 with 19000 miles, very well kept, but no TB service...
If it was an aircraft I'd definately do it....











'96

 

[tbromley]

Good discussion, as I am in a similar position. "95 with 19000 miles, very well kept, but no TB service...
If it was an aircraft I'd definately do it..

'96

Dennis, I believe it's about time to change your belt. Not that it would break on you but you are 15 years out on a service interval of 6 years for the 3.0. It's 7 years for the 3.2. I'd start aniticipating getting that done soon. Save up your stamps.....

Eiffel told me something that sticks in the back of my mind - "even the broken belts "looked" good" Just something to think about.

 

[Honcho]

This topic has been hashed to death, but both Tim and Ken are right. This decision is really just about managing risk. Honda set the interval at 6 (or 7) years because this would give the customer a 99.9% chance of no TB issues. It's like changing your oil every 2000 miles- pretty much a guarantee of a clean engine with no issues.

That doesn't mean that at 6 years and 1 day, the belt will suddenly snap. A better way to think about it is that at the 6 year mark, that 99.9% number will start counting down. How fast no one knows. Indeed, there are probably hundreds of NSX owners out there driving 91's on the original 20+ year old belt. And, there are plenty of prime members who have gone 10, 15 or more years without an incident. But does that mean that at 15 years, for example, the number is now 75%? We can't really know, other than to tally all of the belt snaps out there and plot them to find out when they really start to go. But, even that method won't really tell you anything, since driving conditions can affect the belt life.

Moreover, as I understand it, you cannot determine the condition of the belt by just looking at it (sort of like the coolant hoses, which usually look great right up until they explode all over the road). The belt has nylon threads inside the rubber that are not visible.

Of course, using the above example, the down side to this is if you find yourself on the 25% "bad" side of the 75% safety margin. If your timing belt goes, it usually means a new engine or new heads/valves at a minimum. This is big bucks even with used parts- much more money than the TB/WP service.

So, Ken is right by saying "follow the interval." If you do that, you will avoid any problems. But, Tim is also right by saying "you can let it slide for a while and probably be ok." Odds are, your NSX will be just fine. Of course, there will be an increasing chance over time that it won't. Therefore, the question you need to ask yourself is how far are you willing to let the clock tick down? That is a personal decision based on your risk tolerance.

 

[NSX-Barque]

^+1

 

[BlackWindEXE]

These TB threads are always informative.

Like everyone says, it seems best that the urgency as of right now depends on your driving conditions. Since it's not your DD and you won't be driving it all year then you could put it off until next year if you'd like and do it right when the season rolls around that you would start driving. It would definitely give you some piece of mind.

Or you could just do it now and have fun with the car.

 

[SuperSonic]

I hate reading these threads lol. My 02 needs the service done but I have put if off because if im paying for that I want to do a new clutch and flywheel at the same time at the t/b and w/p. Only reason I havent done it is cause ramon said he just changed a 97 when I spoke with him a couple of months ago and not to worry for at least a couple of years. I trust what ever he says as he has more exp with these cars than almost anyone. My 2 cents.
Plus, my 95 ford escort with 89k miles finally blew the belt in 2008 and thats a ford. I raced the hell out of a family sedan and it blew the belt with 89k miles 13 years later. The race inspired NSX should have no problem getting to 9 or 10 years decently driven with low miles like most have. My second 2 cents.

 

[ChopsJazz]

Plus, my 95 ford escort with 89k miles finally blew the belt in 2008 and thats a ford. I raced the hell out of a family sedan and it blew the belt with 89k miles 13 years later. The race inspired NSX should have no problem getting to 9 or 10 years decently driven with low miles like most have. My second 2 cents.

This is simply bad advice. Refer to the factory service recommendations.

 

[nsxtasy]

This is simply bad advice.

Well, it's coming from someone who has already had a timing belt fail due to not being changed at the recommended interval, so what do you expect? :biggrin:

 

[tbromley]

Now even Ken knows there is no need to urgently feel loads of pressure with this car mentioned to run out before driving it one more mile and get that belt changed. That's just a lot of worrisome fear stuff. The idea that this guy with this car - not a damn Ford that has 89k miles and 13 years out is any kind of a comparo. With all the collective information we have here and recent thread on how far has you NSX gone with it's current TB sort of topic - it's just not necessary to get all excited and worried- we're talking a recommendation based on all kinds of variables and driving conditions all over the world- not this specific car. It would be one thing if you guys were mentioning sound advice by Acura weighing in on this example but your not - it's this by the book stuff - not based on reality. Acura had no idea that folks would buy these cars and never drive em. I know it's an either or -but that still takes into consideration a lot more variables than one singular example.

It's not just bad advice; I agree that maintenance should be kept up at proper intervals but worrying over something like this right on the time as if someone's engine is about to blow and take your chances you idiot, didn't you read your manual, mentality is just way too excited for me. Driving mine like I do - I wonder when the next time I'll change mine will be. I bet I take it over the 6 years cause I know I won't put 90k miles on it in that time or be just burning up the track.

I tell you what - is there anyone out there reading this that knows of an actual example of a belt failure by someone driving their NSX limited miles per year, pretty easy on it, not tracking the car - just your "normal" NSX owner driver breaking a belt at one or two years past the time interval with low miles? Anyone care to comment on that?

Scare tactics and hanging on every little letter of by the book stuff is kind of silly when you consider the above OP's auto example. I await some real time, real use info of belt breakage that in any way resembles this example!

 

[ChopsJazz]

Scare tactics and hanging on every little letter of by the book stuff is kind of silly when you consider the above OP's auto example. I await some real time, real use info of belt breakage that in any way resembles this example!

That's why there is a book.

Until someone here can show better credentials than the engineers who designed this car/engine, I don't think anyone should be giving advice to the contrary.

 

[nsxtasy]

The idea that this guy with this car - not a damn Ford that has 89k miles and 13 years out is any kind of a comparo.

Yes, there is a difference between an NSX and an old Ford. If you break the timing belt in the old Ford, you can buy a new engine for, oh, I'm guessing $3-4K, or a used engine for $1K. If you break the timing belt in the 2003 NSX, you can buy a new engine for $20K+ or a used one for $8-10K. That's the difference. (Oh, and that doesn't include the several thousand dollars for labor on the engine replacement.)

No, it's not going to break on the first day you exceed 7 years. But how far out do you feel comfortable? One year? Two years??? More???

And yes, the timing belts do break, even on cars that haven't exceeded the mileage interval, but have waited too long. Experienced mechanics I know have seen them.

But each owner can do whatever he thinks is best, because he's the one who is going to be paying that five-figure repair bill if he's wrong and it breaks. Not the guy on the internet who is telling you it will never break and you don't need to replace it.

And if your timing belt does break and you have to pay $10-15K as a result, I can guarantee you that (a) you're going to be thinking to yourself, "Why was I so stupid?", and (b) you're NOT going to be posting about it on NSXprime because you'll be too embarrassed to admit that you made a bad decision.

 

[R13]

I think the default answer for this should be:

"If you are asking the question, the answer is yes."


If there is some question as to the condition/age/mileage of a timing belt on a car who's engine can't really be picked up "on the cheap", the belt should be replaced if you can reasonably afford to do so. If you can't reasonably afford to/have the skill to do so, you may have gotten into the wrong car.

 

[tbromley]

All this is exactly what Honcho's post addressed, with the exception of price information about engine replacements. No one would argue this.

But this still doesn't answer the question about real life examples of belts breaking with low mileage cars on THE year of the recommended service. Most of us Primers that have been on this site for a year have heard this issue bantied about at least 3 times. What is interesting is that no one posts real life examples of belts breaking.

You say Larry B has seen them - ok, great- what are the circumstances - do you know of an example that closely resembles the question about the 04 with 19k miles on it???? Or are we just to be satisfied with the stock by the book reading - which anyone reading the manual can give you -anyone.

So again I ask, and if Larry B reads this stuff anymore, then hopefully he'll give us just 2 or 3 examples that might raise the hair on the back of our necks and make us glad we went straight to our mechanic and had our belt replaced but otherwise I think Honcho said it best. It's a matter of risk and you've said the same thing - but in the end if someone is planning on tracking their 04 and running it hard I'd sure recommend getting the belt replaced to start off things right. But if you're going to drive you 04 with 19k miles on it as a weekend fun toy, and you're in Canada where the season is short I don't think anyone is going to really argue that it is just taking your "car's engine life" into the depths of risk that if you don't do this right away or even within a year or two that you'll be running the risk of engine replacement. That is just alarmist silly stuff.

I hope Larry B will comment and give us some real life testimony here. I would really like to hear of some and I'm not being sarcastic at all. I'd just like to hear some examples of when this has happened - a belt actually breaking. Not all this conjecture.

Yes, there is a difference between an NSX and an old Ford. If you break the timing belt in the old Ford, you can buy a new engine for, oh, I'm guessing $3-4K, or a used engine for $1K. If you break the timing belt in the 2003 NSX, you can buy a new engine for $20K+ or a used one for $8-10K. That's the difference. (Oh, and that doesn't include the several thousand dollars for labor on the engine replacement.)

No, it's not going to break on the first day you exceed 7 years. But how far out do you feel comfortable? One year? Two years??? More???

And yes, the timing belts do break, even on cars that haven't exceeded the mileage interval, but have waited too long. Larry B has seen too many of them.

But each owner can do whatever he thinks is best, because he's the one who is going to be paying that five-figure repair bill if he's wrong and it breaks. Not the guy on the internet who is telling you it will never break and you don't need to replace it.

And if your timing belt does break and you have to pay $10-15K as a result, I can guarantee you that (a) you're going to be thinking to yourself, "Why was I so stupid?", and (b) you're NOT going to be posting about it on NSXprime because you'll be too embarrassed to admit that you made a bad decision.

 

[R13]

Rubber degrades over time and with heat cycles, therefore, give enough time/heat cycles a belt will fail. I'm sure the belts are over-engineered and I'm sure that Honda has some engineering safety factor built into the 7 year recommendation, but I guess I'm not sure what the debate is. The answer to the OP's question (and other similar questions) is "yes, you ought to."

Heck I'd been told by a guy in a shop in NJ that allegedly did the work that the belts in my car were only 5k miles old when I bought the car. However, I had no receipt or paperwork for it, so I had them done again immediately.

 

[tbromley]

Rubber degrades over time and with heat cycles, therefore, give enough time/heat cycles a belt will fail. I'm sure the belts are over-engineered and I'm sure that Honda has some engineering safety factor built into the 7 year recommendation, but I guess I'm not sure what the debate is. The answer to the OP's question (and other similar questions) is "yes, you ought to."

Heck I'd been told by a guy in a shop in NJ that allegedly did the work that the belts in my car were only 5k miles old when I bought the car. However, I had no receipt or paperwork for it, so I had them done again immediately.

All us regular primers know this - I'm looking for some real breakage info. We talk about this same thread over and over and no one ever produces any real BREAKAGE info. We've heard the threads that list peoples date on their belts and many have waaaay exceded the recommended interval. We all know what the recommended interval is and that it's a good idea, etc, etc. And some mention that Larry B has had information about belts breaking well - Will someone please share that?

You see we are constantly giving advice here on Prime about the TB/WP service - it would just be nice to do more than just quote the service manual recommendation. I can't speak for anyone else but I for one would like to see some real belt breaking tech data or just a few examples of when and why belts have broken in the past. We talk about risk and how much expensive repairs are when belts break but what are the real risks?

Some folks are so paranoid as to say don't even drive you car home with a belt service needed even if it's an 04 with 19k miles on it - I've seen that kind of "advice". Wouldn't anyone like to hear from a mechanic that repairs NSXs? I'm going to personally write Larry B.