No new NSX? Hope fades after Uehara comments.

[NetViper]

Originally posted by Jimbo:
Honda has in the past used forced induction (i.e. turbo) in order to meet performance goals.

-Jim

Exactly. They realized they could not compete in lemans without a Turbo. So why should their road car be any different. If they could do it for that, they should have made it a factory option. IF they had done that, the NSX sales would have skyrocketed, IMO.

 

[s2ktaxi]

Irrespective of what the plans may be for a future NSX, I'm still enjoying mine as much as I did my first one 7 years ago - if not even more so (though the fact that it's a 00 coupe now has something to do with it)...

 

[Ponyboy]

Didn't Honda have a Japan only small sedan that had a turbo on it? I know they had one model from the factory that was turbocharged but I forget what it was.

Anyway if Honda did anything with an aftermarket vendor, I think it would most likely be Mugen. And remember a Mugen 4.0L V8 is powering a Panoz car. Couldn't be the new NSX engine could it? But I'm sure they would choose Mugen over any other reputable vendor.

I don't give a whole lot of validity to Mr. Uehara-san's comments. There's just very little logic in it. And he's obviously an intelligent person. The McLaren F1 weighs very close to what an NSX weighs and how much HP is that car making? 600hp or something? And that car is unbalanced because of the engine weight? Now just give us 3/4 of that engine and we'd be happy for years.

 

[AKUDOU]

Reading all these expressive posts can make a person crazy and start looking at http://www.cadillac.com/cadillacjsp/futuremodels/xlr/design.html.

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by Ponyboy:
Didn't Honda have a Japan only small sedan that had a turbo on it? I know they had one model from the factory that was turbocharged but I forget what it was.

I think it might have been the Honda City, a sub-sub-subcompact.

 

[Jimbo]

Didn't Honda have a Japan only small sedan that had a turbo on it?

Yes. It was called the Honda City Turbo
http://www.users.bigpond.com/Racecraft/Honda_City_Turbos/honda_city_turbos.html


-Jim

------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
1976 Honda Accord 5 spd, 3 door Blue/Blue
1977 Honda Accord - Custom - Under Construction
1986 Chevy Suburban
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html

[This message has been edited by Jimbo (edited 26 November 2002).]

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
I think it might have been the Honda City, a sub-sub-subcompact.

Yup. Nothing like a few keystrokes on a search engine.

From http://www.users.bigpond.com/Racecraft/Honda_City_Turbos/honda_city_turbos.html :

"Honda has only manufactured two models of turbocharged car (other than F1). One was a 2.5 litre V6 Legend needing a bit more go, the other, a tiny commuter car known as the City or Jazz. It's ironic that the car they choose to release as a special edition turbo was the least sportscar like vehicle in the Honda range. The Honda City Turbo was the brainchild of Hirotoshi Honda. Hirotoshi is the son of Honda's Founder. Hirotoshi’s company Mugen had already proven it’s worth making performance parts for motorcycles and some cars but was largely unheard of out of racing circles. Hirotoshi Honda took Honda's ugliest, most ungainly vehicle and turned it into an aggressive performer that was well ahead of its time (as with most Hondas) and Honda released a production version of it.

Honda City Turbos were manufactured in three guises. The City Turbo, basically a standard looking City with a turbo motor and a bonnet hump. In Japan, the second model City Turbo is affectionately known as the "Bulldog". This model had aggressively flared guards, spoilers and was adorned with wild graphics straight from the factory designating it a HYPER 11. Very few city turbos were also released as a cabriolet model (most cabriolets are not turbo charged but still have the flared guard body kit typical of the turbo 11).

The City TURBO

The City Turbo 1 was manufactured from 1981-83, the Turbo 11 was manufactured until 1987. Both models featured a digital speedo surrounded by a Tacho so that all relative information could be taken at a glance. The last run of Turbo 11s had a normal speedo/tacho assembly. The motors in both models were essentially the same. Both models were powered by an all alloy 1237cc motor with CVCC (we'll get to that), IHI RHB51 turbocharger, multipoint fuel injection and a magnesium rocker cover. Compression ratio was down to 7.5:1 and the boost was wound up to 12psi, fairly high for a factory turbo car. The Turbo 11's were intercooled, had a revised intake plenum, slightly larger throttle body, modified inlet manifold, higher AR turbo compressor and exhaust housings as well as a slightly raised (7.6:1) compression ratio. Both motors have the same sort of power potential."

 

[Ben]

I was told that in Japan, all cars are fixed price, sold for sticker price, no haggling. So, I guess that helps the bottom line more than US Sales.

-Ben

Originally posted by Lud:
Unfortunately, these days their line of thinking about the NSX only seems to only make sense to a few hundred new NSX customers a year in the entire world... and even then most are sold a good bit below sticker price, at least in the US.

 

[nsxtasy]

Jimbo,

Looks like it took you about the same amount of time to find that web page as I did - three minutes for me to use it in composing my reply, three minutes for you to find it and edit it back into your post...

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by Ben:
I was told that in Japan, all cars are fixed price, sold for sticker price, no haggling. So, I guess that helps the bottom line more than US Sales.

Whose bottom line, Honda corporate's or the dealers'?

 

[Ponyboy]

Okay, okay, so I was lazy. But I did remember the name "City" and was going to edit my post. Honest.

Here's to the next gen NSX! Sounds like a rallying cry to me.

 

[Tom Larkins]

Originally posted by 92 white 0650:
There are obviously a few strong personalities in Honda. They apparently have the luxury to champion and control their own pet programs. Being strong personalities, they are also quirky and take things personally. Look at how the politics of CART changed their whole engine program. In a nutshell, they were alienated by poor CART management a year ago. This season, their last obligation, they let their engines go from state of the art to the laughing stock of the series.

And didn't they build at least 2 prototypes of business jets several years ago? How much did they throw away on that effort? I'm sure their engineers didn't throw in the towel. My theory is that the "champion" just chose to.

They are just not predictable with fringe programs, of which the NSX is one.

While I don't totally disagree with the text, Honda didn't bail on them as much as CART not having a direction which you state, however they are going to the IRL as a engine provider which may say something as to their direction or willingness to development a engine for possible use in a passenger car. As for the business jets, your really taking about a limited market in relationship to development cost specific to the current economy in which no one is doing. Heck, look at Boeing, the only thing positive w/them is their defense contracts and that doesn't include building jets for commercial or private use anyway. $'s & cents are going to play out w/them in my opinion. If they can make us another NSX with the same impact the 91 did they could do it, fringe program or not. Smart business does not show its hand and Honda has never been one to show much of anything. In short, those cats are shrewd !

 

[92 white 0650]

Originally posted by Tom Larkins:

Honda didn't bail on them as much as CART not having a direction which you state, however they are going to the IRL as a engine provider which may say something as to their direction or willingness to development a engine for possible use in a passenger car. As for the business jets, your really taking about a limited market in relationship to development cost specific to the current economy in which no one is doing. Heck, look at Boeing, the only thing positive w/them is their defense contracts and that doesn't include building jets for commercial or private use anyway. $'s & cents are going to play out w/them in my opinion. If they can make us another NSX with the same impact the 91 did they could do it, fringe program or not. Smart business does not show its hand and Honda has never been one to show much of anything. In short, those cats are shrewd !

Tom, we're touching different sides of the same elephant here. Let's not lose sight of who "they" are. They may be shrewd but they are also quirky and subject to human unpredictability more so than we're allowing for in this thread.

The CART thing was childish on both sides. CART communicated poorly and were indecisive with the planning of their engine program and Honda had every right to be disgusted and leave. But instead of quietly terminating the relationship as a large faceless corporation should do, they said "we can't tool up for a NA (IRL type) engine by 2004, we're outta here". Then they turn around in less than a year and commit to NA IRL engines in 2003, and let the CART program go to hell in a handbasket this year. Smells a little personal to me.

As for airplanes, that's a bit removed from the usual earthbound products that they do so well. Sure there are good reasons for not being in that business, but they're the same good reasons that transcend bumps in the economy. But someone decided to spend some money on a project and then fold it with the economy still hot. Doesn't look like the predictable long range planning that would comfort our western culture business sense.

We have a saying here in the California engineering community: "There ain't no Mr. Caltrans", meaning that there are individuals in the California DOT making individual decisions that do not always make sense or jive with long standing policy of that "gibralter like" agency.

Sure those Honda cats are shrewd, but they are also human and definitely not omniscient.

 

[POWERED by HONDA]

According to the Asian Wall Street Journal in early December, Honda's corporate/personanl-Jet project is still going on.

I believe the article was reprinted in the regular Wall Street Journal.

 

[s2ktaxi]

For a couple of years, Honda also had a Variable Nozzle Turbo'd 2.0L Honda Legend...

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
I think it might have been the Honda City, a sub-sub-subcompact.

 

[s2ktaxi]

I got it because it was a Honda...

Originally posted by gheba_nsx:
I am still convinced that 50% of the difficulty to sell the NSX relies exactely in the fact that it is a Honda and not something that you can brag about when speaking. Sad but true. (..and again IMO)

 

[TyraNSX]

3 words: Call-a-way. Make it an option, your NSX goes to Callaway (a childhood friend of mine is in charge of the place), gets delivered thru your dealer. Honda & Callaway provide warranties, your car screams. A single or twin turbo with intercooling and brake upgrades would be awesome.