installed my bbsc........

[Yellow Rose]

Absurd

The BBSC doesn't change any acceleration under 6000 RPM.....

Wrong! Come ride in my car, boost begins at 2500 RPM

.....and after that it is not a whole lot more then stock.

Hilarious - a stock NSX makes about 250 RWHP and mine makes 383 RWHP untuned (never made it back to the dyno, but I feel that during the tuning process, I picked up 15-20 RWHP by removing some richness) so please tell me how a 55% increase in power is "not a whole lot more then stock" !! Some unique logic going on there. The 383 RWHP is with an 8 PSI pulley.....I have a 10 PSI pulley in my toolbox.

 

[Turbo NSX]

By the way, what happened to the original topic called "installed my bbsc........ "

It got hijacked when Turbo NSX started bragging about how the GJ turbo kit is the supreme forced induction configuration. That may or may not be, depending on what the user is looking for. However, comparing these two kits is such a ridiculous apples-to-oranges comparison.

Alright Andy, First off I didn't hijack the post I commented that negative posts or problems with the system should be allowed and that it is not all BS.

How can you say comparing the kits is ridiculous. At this point I have only driven my car at or under 10psi of boost. I am making my comparison between the kits based on this experience.

I never said Gerry's is the "supreme" kit, but I will tell you this dollar for dollar you get more performance from the GJ kit then any other. And what is any user looking for by adding a FI system? Horsepower, Torque, and reliability....at least you get one of those with the BBSC.

 

[Turbo NSX]

Re: Absurd

The BBSC doesn't change any acceleration under 6000 RPM.....

Wrong! Come ride in my car, boost begins at 2500 RPM

Yeah how much 1psi, I am not impressed. At what RPM do you have full boost?

.....and after that it is not a whole lot more then stock.

Hilarious - a stock NSX makes about 250 RWHP and mine makes 383 RWHP untuned (never made it back to the dyno, but I feel that during the tuning process, I picked up 15-20 RWHP by removing some richness) so please tell me how a 55% increase in power is "not a whole lot more then stock" !! Some unique logic going on there. The 383 RWHP is with an 8 PSI pulley.....I have a 10 PSI pulley in my toolbox.

Well my car on the dyno only seemed to put down 323 hp with a BBSC, say a difference of 70 hp from stock and between 6500-8000 rpm. Gee you probably only feel it for say 1 second per gear. Thats what I was looking for, wrong I want to be held back in my seat and feel the acceleration all the way through the gear. Who doesn't want that, especially for the same price. Give me a break.

Andy, If you would like I can post my BBSC dyno plot for the first time (since I was embarassed to post it when I had the kit) We can all get a laugh then.

 

[Sig]

Re: Re: Absurd

Well my car on the dyno only seemed to put down 323 hp with a BBSC, say a difference of 70 hp from stock and between 6500-8000 rpm. Gee you probably only feel it for say 1 second per gear.

There was something obviously wrong with your install. If 365 to 400 rwhp is the norm, I'm not sure I follow the logic that 323rwph is the right benchmark to base generalized statements against.

That debate aside, I'm sure your you new kit will bring you satisfaction, good luck.

 

[NetViper]

Andy's BBSC is also no where NEAR a base kit...

Andy.. why dont you both run your car at the dragstrip and you can both compare times and trap speed.. then we can see..

 

[Sig]

Andy's BBSC is also no where NEAR a base kit...

I was referring to my own(not Andy's) and several others that I witnessed first-hand on a dyno. My car, which has the base kit, dyno'd between 375rwhp and a best pull of 382 rwhp. This is with OEM 91 exhaust and catalytic converters.

I have been running my car in this state since July of 2002 without issue. Do I feel this is the ultimate kit.... no I cedrtainly do not. It did however, suit my goals at the time of purchase.

The purpose of bringing up real life #'s is not to get into a rwhp pissing match, but simply out of the idea that it is better to use accurate information, especially when one is criticizing.

 

[peiserg]

Well, I too thought that 360+ to 380 was the "norm" that people were getting with the BBSC? a 320 RWHP is indeed way below what i've heard of as average... I spoke with chris at SOS last week and asked how many BBSC's installed so far and he said as of 2 months ago it was 89, so by now i'd guess above 100? I'd think that with such a large number of installs, the bugs are mostly working themselves out by now? Hmm, either way, if i go ahead with BBSC, being local is sure to make any tuning issues easier to work out..

 

[peiserg]

Re: Re: Absurd

Well my car on the dyno only seemed to put down 323 hp with a BBSC, say a difference of 70 hp from stock and between 6500-8000 rpm. Gee you probably only feel it for say 1 second per gear. Thats what I was looking for, wrong I want to be held back in my seat and feel the acceleration all the way through the gear. Who doesn't want that, especially for the same price. Give me a break.

I'm curious, who did the install, and the tuning and all that? and was this with whatever software is out now, or one of the earlier versions? was this a recent install, or quite some time ago?

 

[Turbo NSX]

Re: Re: Re: Absurd

Well my car on the dyno only seemed to put down 323 hp with a BBSC, say a difference of 70 hp from stock and between 6500-8000 rpm. Gee you probably only feel it for say 1 second per gear. Thats what I was looking for, wrong I want to be held back in my seat and feel the acceleration all the way through the gear. Who doesn't want that, especially for the same price. Give me a break.

I'm curious, who did the install, and the tuning and all that? and was this with whatever software is out now, or one of the earlier versions? was this a recent install, or quite some time ago?

MB did the install in phoenix. July 02.

Do yourself this favor before you decide what to buy. Go drive the car with a BBSC and then go find a comptech or better a turbo and drive it. BTW bugs don't just work themselves out. If they are constantly doing installs and repairing blown motors who is researching and fixing the bugs.

 

[Turbo NSX]

Andy's BBSC is also no where NEAR a base kit...

Andy.. why dont you both run your car at the dragstrip and you can both compare times and trap speed.. then we can see..

Are you referring to my car? Yes lets do it, the only problem is just like GJ's car, It will smoke a 12.0 second time and out here they make you have a roll cage for times under that and therefore will boot you off the track after one run.

I think that we should arrange a FI shoot out. Maybe go to the dyno and then to the track. The Northwestern group has every flavor of FI (Gruppe M-Bonez, High boosted comptech-Number 9, Aerodyne twin turbo-Tunapie,and myself) I know there are also some BBSC's in the area but I have never seen one at the club meeting. Are you guys willing? Anybody want to see the results?

 

[Black&Tan97Tnewportbeach]

I think (al)most everybody would!

 

[Darkcyd]

We've had to put up with all the squabbling for months now. I say hell yeah, let's put boost to the road and have at it once and for all. Maybe we'll finally have some peace again after that. We should make it a sanctioned NSXCA event and have multiple entries for each FI package. It could be an annual event and each year we come back and see who's car is still running. Better yet, we can have a Boost King special NSX Prime avatar for the all out winner.

 

[tunapie]

If it is a brute force contest GJ should take the cup. The variable for all the different FI systems would be the boost level. Mine is a wimpy 5.5 psi in comparison to the others. I think a few 1/4 mile runs to see if engines barf oil also. Longevity is key. Dan

 

[Factor X Motorsports]

NSX Shootout

I think that we should arrange a FI shoot out. Maybe go to the dyno and then to the track. The Northwestern group has every flavor of FI (Gruppe M-Bonez, High boosted comptech-Number 9, Aerodyne twin turbo-Tunapie,and myself) I know there are also some BBSC's in the area but I have never seen one at the club meeting. Are you guys willing? Anybody want to see the results?

We would be more than happy to host an event at the LVMS. We have been kicking the idea around with other vendors about having a Dyna Day, 1/4 mile, and Road Course Day. Similar to, dare we say Supras Invade Las Vegas. This would be a great way to compare all of the FI and NA solutions out there, see them in real world environments, and have an all around great time in Las Vegas with other NSX freaks.

 

[NetViper]

Re: NSX Shootout

We would be more than happy to host an event at the LVMS. We have been kicking the idea around with other vendors about having a Dyna Day, 1/4 mile, and Road Course Day. Similar to, dare we say Supras Invade Las Vegas. This would be a great way to compare all of the FI and NA solutions out there, see them in real world environments, and have an all around great time in Las Vegas with other NSX freaks.

OK... there is the challenge... thank you Factor X Motorsports.

Now, all you BBSC fanatics, bring your cars to vegas and lets see what's up.

I say we need a CTSC 6lbs and 9lbs
The "normal" bbsc and high boost
GJTC
Gruppe M.

I also think we should have one driver do each car.. so it will not be a driver thing... 2 practice runs and 1 final. Take the best of the 3.

However, if we cannot get all of those, lets just get a BBSC to run against the factor X cars... or just a BBSC to run period. I dont think we have ever seen a timeslip from one...

The FX400 should be a good comparison for the BBSC. Do you think you will have one available Factor X?

 

[Turbo NSX]

Re: Re: NSX Shootout

OK... there is the challenge... thank you Factor X Motorsports.

Now, all you BBSC fanatics, bring your cars to vegas and lets see what's up.

I say we need a CTSC 6lbs and 9lbs
The "normal" bbsc and high boost
GJTC
Gruppe M.

I also think we should have one driver do each car.. so it will not be a driver thing... 2 practice runs and 1 final. Take the best of the 3.

However, if we cannot get all of those, lets just get a BBSC to run against the factor X cars... or just a BBSC to run period. I dont think we have ever seen a timeslip from one...

The FX400 should be a good comparison for the BBSC. Do you think you will have one available Factor X?

I think this is awesome. I am not sure I like the one driver thing though. I am sure that driver does not want to feel responsible if anything were to break on any of the cars.

When are we thinking about doing this?

 

[len3.8]

Damn, Now I gotta fly out to vegas.
I know the outcome for shear power will be between 2 players, if in fact they both played. (Power throughout the RPM's)
Having the CTSC 6lb kit, I can truly say I was impressed with that power. I have the 9lb kit, however it has not, and will not be activated. I am looking for the power of the Turbo's. I rode in 2 at NSXPO, both were very impressive, also very different in feel.
I will say this, IMHO Gerry Johnson car is just damn tight from low to high. The car is just plain powerful. I know it has the internals worked on, Doesn't matter to me, because that is what I plan on doing. I am going to copy Brian. Sorry Brian. Gotta Have it.
Factor X's car is smooth as heck, seems under control at all times.
The power builds and builds at a constant, seemingly endless rate. I would love to get more comparisons just for the hell of it.
I know where my car is going.

Anyone want to buy a brand new CTSC 9lb kit?
Len

 

[D'Ecosse]

Lost a great opportunityat NSXPO - all the variants were already represented & present, didn't even have to go anywhere. However they weren't "allowed" to even discuss publicly in the designated forum let alone actually measure against each other.
It may have been different if the Factor X dyno had made it there I suppose.

 

[KGP]

Re: Re: NSX Shootout

The FX400 should be a good comparison for the BBSC.

Don't bother. I rode in the FX car when in FX400 trim, and as you know I have a BBSC. It wouldn't even be close.

 

[KGP]

Re: Re: Re: NSX Shootout

I think this is awesome. I am not sure I like the one driver thing though. I am sure that driver does not want to feel responsible if anything were to break on any of the cars.

When are we thinking about doing this?

I guess if you guys twist my arm hard enough I will volunteer to drive all the cars. Hey, if someone's got to do it, that person might as well be me!
Seriously though, I think some real-world accelration tests would be a great addition to any shoot-out tests. sjs and I were ready to use the G-cube on the FX car, but it wasn't quite ready at the time.

Disclaimer: Driver assumes no responsibility for anything other than having a good time driving fast cars.

 

[fusionsport]

This thread was pointed out to me by a friend, who thought I might have some input. I have successfully tuned the AEM on the bbsc system on a low-compression motor with relatively minor issues. The dyno of the car can be seen at www.dynopro.com under Mile High Horsepower>Street Legal Honda/Acura. There is more power in the car, we ran out of time for tuning. There were relatively few issues,most of which revolved around the MAP sensor and software version. The s/c system itself is pretty well thought out with a couple of exceptions-

The fuel system is not adequate for the power levels the s/c is capable of. We upgraded the FPR(Aeromotive) and injectors, and will be doing the fuel pump fairly soon.

The aftercooler Mark provides is adequate, but the reservoir size is lacking and can cause IAT temps to rise, leading to much less power output. The kit is pretty worthless IMO without the aftercooler, and is I suspect a key reason there have been issues in a few installations.

The Basch system is as I said pretty well thought out and Mark himself has been extremely helpful whenever I had an issue.

If you are going to use the AEM I strongly recommend you:

-Use only an experienced tuner to do the initial tuning and do as much tuning on the dyno as possible
-Install the AEM wideband, either a single or dual channel. Never ever trust a dyno shops wideband. Its a very inexpensive addition

I have no reservation recomending the AEM to anyone, as long as you realize going into it that it is just as complicated as MoTeC and in some aspects even more complex, and requires knowledge and experience to tune

 

[tunapie]

If I had read letters like this 5 months ago I would have the AEM in my car instead of the Tec3. But I must admit the Tec has no issues. Fusionsport, how efficient is the aftercooler. If you were to do some road pulls with out the water pump running then do the same with the pump on, what is the IAT difference. Dan

 

[fusionsport]

Dan- the issues I spoke about were not big ones, pretty much what you go through when setting up and tuning a car with any engine management, be it MoTeC, DTA, etc. On a personal note I am not fond of the TEC3, but I am biased.

I would have to go look through some data to come up with exact numbers, and I have not had the car on the dyno again to check the power variations with/without the pump running. I do know that wihtout the pump running and with the original reservior the aftercooler would get hot to the touch (180 or higher) even after a short run on boost, and after the upgrades I made to the system the aftercooler was cool to the touch after prolonged driving and several pulls on the dyno, it was a difference you could definetley observable. I can look back through some data for specifics, or when the owner has time for more dyno sessions make a note of the data

 

[KGP]

On a personal note I am not fond of the TEC3, but I am biased.

Objectively, can you give reasons why not?

Welcome, and thanks for your contribution.

 

[fusionsport]

yes- the TEC3 is pretty rudimentary, its sensor selection and setup not nearly flexible enough,not as easy as it should be to add in a wideband, in fact there is NO dedicated wideband input, which is as far as I am concerned is imperative to tuning any EMS.I find the user interface clumsy and less than ideal. Its harness and connectors are among the worst I have ever seen. I am of course biased, working with a MoTeC dealer, being a dealer for DTA, and having used nearly every engine management system out there.