lol...
Debating between c6 z06 and NSX part 2
- Thread starter rusty75
- Start date
lol...
I did not know he designed the NSX, if the show ever comes on again it's worth watching. He got the job at Pininfarina by submitting a collection of drawings, no car designs were in his portfolio.
http://www.kenokuyama.jp/
http://www.kenokuyama.jp/
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Ski_Banker
Suspended
What an irritating thread (or some of the NSX fanboi posts at least). Can we put this to rest already?
C6 Z06 = amazing car/performance, and probably similar maintenance costs
NSX = formerly amazing car. Really the only reasons to buy an NSX over a 997 or C6 Z06 would be that you particularly like: mid engine, rarity, AMAZING seating position, and nostalgia for what was once a legendary vehicle. I love all those features so I went with a new NSX, but I recognize that a lot of what I'm paying for is nonsense.
C6 Z06 = amazing car/performance, and probably similar maintenance costs
NSX = formerly amazing car. Really the only reasons to buy an NSX over a 997 or C6 Z06 would be that you particularly like: mid engine, rarity, AMAZING seating position, and nostalgia for what was once a legendary vehicle. I love all those features so I went with a new NSX, but I recognize that a lot of what I'm paying for is nonsense.
Batman, get a 97+ NSX and a CTSC .... i will admit, I drove a couple of 93 NSX's that drove like poop, with no power ... maybe yours is sick or something like that ...
Oscar
Oscar
Im not going to suggest reasons TO buy the NSX, but rather I can tell you there may be other reasons to NOT buy the 997 or Z06 (and it can apply to any sports car).
Performance isnt everything. I have a lot of seat time in the Corvette and the 911. I have a fair bit of seat time in the C6 as well because a friend owns one. The numbers on the Z06 dont change the fundamental dynamics of the Corvette because they are a result of the design. It feels big and heavy to me when you drive it and it has a tendency to hunt around on bad surfaces. Almost as bad as a Gen 2 Viper. This is true of the Z51 Vettes and more true of the Z06.
The Viper feels even MORE huge than the Vettes, but it also "feels" FAR faster. Even when it isnt in numbers. To me, a 2001 GTS "feels" faster than a C6 Z06.
The 997 is still a Porsche. Fundamental differences from the 996 exist mainly in the minds of insane Porsche fanatics who have a hardon for the 996 and will always hate it.
I drove a 997 and it felt very similar to the 996 I drove for years which, to be quite honest, felt quite similar to the 993.
The point is rather than bench racing and white papering these cars, folks should *drive* them.
The reason I came back to the NSX is because after driving an SRT-10, Viper Gen 2, Corvette C6 (Z06 and standard), Lotus Esprit, Porsche 993 (to see what the fuss was about), 996 Turbo, 997, and Cayman, I realized that NOTHING matched the NSX for *me* in terms of driving pleasure other than the Cayman. But aesthetically, the Cayman doesnt do it for me and the Cayman doesnt offer superior performance to the 3.2L NSX anyway.
It isnt all a numbers game. Unless someone just wants to be "king of the road" racing from BK to Walmart on their local truck route.
One really needs to drive these cars and see if they actually enjoy it before just basing a decision on HP/tq/weight/lateral accel/etc.
Surprisingly (it was a surprise for me at least) if I wasnt able to find an NSX I was most likely going to end up with the Viper. As raw, brutal and ridiculous as it is, and as uncomfortable and weird as it is to drive, it also has something visceral going on that is infectious. It feels dangerous and that gets kind of addictive. By comparison, the Z06 has most of the same flaws but feels kind of boring in comparison. And if you compare it against the Gen 4 Viper, it isnt even faster (and it isnt substantially cheaper).
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judging from batman's mod's list, his nsx should atleast be on par with yours. but also look at what else he drives. so of course the nsx is going to feel under powered.
Maybe, but I promise you, I drove a 93 NSX with 45K miles, lowered, with exhaust, headers, pipes, OF COURSE had 18-19, that poor car was so unbalanced and weird that even my GF was ... r u sure about this "NSX" car? is that it? ... we just came from our S2000 (and she DD her RL, so her car although not fast, still not slow) and it was just a bit faster (it was very disappointing to be honest), even my gf thought that i was CRAZY to get rid of the S2k to get that particular NSX, we drove our 97 for the first time, all stock, and it was INCREDIBLE the difference, much faster also.
Oscar
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Hey Guys,
Obviously we are drifting off topic here. All this bantying about of the +/- aspects of cars that are so vastly different makes me wonder what the discussion is all about in the first place. I mean comparing a Vette with tons of Hp and Torque to an NSX is just silly in my mind. One is a light and nimble sufficiently powered sports car the Vette is doing battle with the "big" boys on the block but it's heavy and the rear end does do a bit of walking about as that seems to be what I read. This latest super vette that has come out touts that all the afore mentioned funky characteristics are now tame. Ok, so, it's also over 100k. We're not talking about a new vette. We're talking here about a used vette or a used NSX. Still vastly different cars - I really don't care to convince anyone why they should buy an NSX over a Vette. It's too subjective.
A person either wants a light tossible sports car or he doesn't. The idea that a vette is somehow an alternative as a heavy, super fast, torque monster that tends to walk when on rough pavement isn't going to dissuade anyone so inclined away from a Vette if power is all important. The Vette has been touted as one of the best deals going for a super car and I'm sure it is - if that's the kind of car you want get it. If you want to try something a bit more special and nimble then try the NSX or some other car that actually compares with it in the light and nimble catagory not some torque monster. The comparo is crazy from the outset.
So to Oscar, you made a statement about how the 93 NSX you drove was so unbalanced due to which of the mods - I'm guessing it was the wheels that were so oversized for the car. I don't see how headers and an exhaust system would do anything but improve the power output "just slightly". I would like to know more about why the later model car is so "incredibly" different and faster - I need to check the specs on torque between the two model engines, but there is a weight issue that the targa adds. I know the gearing is different and I would almost bet that is the biggest difference in the "power" of the two. One feels faster because of the gearing, not due to weight vs torque and hp. I would think that a coupe with the weight difference would be still very close in speed? Give me more on your impressions of the first gens to the second gen NSXs. Maybe this is why some here have bought and sold and bought again into later models?
By the way Batman, if you have a GTO supercharged that would be the car I'd compare to the Vette, not the NSX. If you want to sell a car why not sell the GTO and buy the Vette? Bet it's the usability of a 4 seater vs 2 - correct? I can't imagine why you wouldn't want a nimble sports car like the NSX but then it's all about taste isn't it. No accounting for that.
Obviously we are drifting off topic here. All this bantying about of the +/- aspects of cars that are so vastly different makes me wonder what the discussion is all about in the first place. I mean comparing a Vette with tons of Hp and Torque to an NSX is just silly in my mind. One is a light and nimble sufficiently powered sports car the Vette is doing battle with the "big" boys on the block but it's heavy and the rear end does do a bit of walking about as that seems to be what I read. This latest super vette that has come out touts that all the afore mentioned funky characteristics are now tame. Ok, so, it's also over 100k. We're not talking about a new vette. We're talking here about a used vette or a used NSX. Still vastly different cars - I really don't care to convince anyone why they should buy an NSX over a Vette. It's too subjective.
A person either wants a light tossible sports car or he doesn't. The idea that a vette is somehow an alternative as a heavy, super fast, torque monster that tends to walk when on rough pavement isn't going to dissuade anyone so inclined away from a Vette if power is all important. The Vette has been touted as one of the best deals going for a super car and I'm sure it is - if that's the kind of car you want get it. If you want to try something a bit more special and nimble then try the NSX or some other car that actually compares with it in the light and nimble catagory not some torque monster. The comparo is crazy from the outset.
So to Oscar, you made a statement about how the 93 NSX you drove was so unbalanced due to which of the mods - I'm guessing it was the wheels that were so oversized for the car. I don't see how headers and an exhaust system would do anything but improve the power output "just slightly". I would like to know more about why the later model car is so "incredibly" different and faster - I need to check the specs on torque between the two model engines, but there is a weight issue that the targa adds. I know the gearing is different and I would almost bet that is the biggest difference in the "power" of the two. One feels faster because of the gearing, not due to weight vs torque and hp. I would think that a coupe with the weight difference would be still very close in speed? Give me more on your impressions of the first gens to the second gen NSXs. Maybe this is why some here have bought and sold and bought again into later models?
By the way Batman, if you have a GTO supercharged that would be the car I'd compare to the Vette, not the NSX. If you want to sell a car why not sell the GTO and buy the Vette? Bet it's the usability of a 4 seater vs 2 - correct? I can't imagine why you wouldn't want a nimble sports car like the NSX but then it's all about taste isn't it. No accounting for that.
I've driven a CTSC NSX.
It's nice, but ain't anything near the 430rwhp FD that weighed less than the NSX or my 514rwhp Supercharged GTO.
When I bought the NSX it had 18/19 on it. it was soooo slow trying to move all that rotational weight. I sold the wheels and put the stock 15/16 on there it was MUCH better.
Anyone that rides bikes will tell u that if u want to lose weight in a bike, spend it on addressing rotational mass first. Last i heard, it was something like an 1:8 ratio. In other words for every pound of rotational mass, it's like carrying 8 lbs of static mass.
Since ur sig talks about 208whp cars and u think the NA2 NSX is that much faster than a NA1 with 18/19 I don't think u've ever experienced the power levels of either my GTO or a C6 Z06. U would be hooked on the power like it's coke and easily over-look the "well it's shitty domestic V8 blah blah blah" mentality.
I used to think like that until I tried it out.
Conclusion:
Z06 is well endowed with 8x7
NSX is an average of 6x3
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I love the GTO's 4-seat utility. No plans on selling it anytime soon.
The NSX is alot like a exotic car.......... until u mash the gas pedal and it takes much longer to hit warp speeds.
The GTO or C6 Z06 (I've been in one with LT Headers) delivers power to weight like a $300K+ italian exotic.
I've had a more nimble car than the NSX that delivered power too - FD.
What I really like about the NSX is that it's lower, fit and finish is superior to the FD (doesn't smell as good as the FD leather/plastics) and has the rear-mid -engine shape.
It's a wannabe of this:
and the face of the FC RX7 and 944 meshed together.
The NSX styling is really not that original.
I'll give u a little insight: Japanese are not really well known for being industry innovators or setters, but rather followers when compared to the West.
Which is one reason the NSX is so exemplary.
Honda took the molds/conventions and trashed them then started over.
Revolutionary in its time.
Consider the Ferrari counterpart. The 348. Tube chassis, steel body, fuelish V-8 with the same HP/weight.
Acura cleaned its clock. And I am a Ferrari guy but a car guy more.
It took Ferrari 8 years to catch up with the 360. Really.
Dont compare it to the F-40. It would be like comparing a Corvette to a Veyron.
The F-40 was in a different class and in many ways the engineering on the NSX still blew that car away.
I'll say it again; the only thing lacking in the NSX even from the start was 100HP or else we could go down to the showroom today and buy its latest generation.
If not for some silly Japan-centric decision made by some execs that thought the world would bend to their views on performance (HP).
In all other regards the car was/is genius.
i would say that this current gen is either a gen 3 or a 4.
gen 1 had no roof, no side windows, came in convertible only.
gen 2 had the slightly bigger engine, and the fixed dual bubble roof with the exhaust coming straight out the back vs out the sides like in gen 1.
gen 3 was totally redone where the hood opens in the conventional way vs openning up like a clam shell, the exhaust now comes out the sides again but with a cross over pipe to make it sound better, redone interior etc etc.
gen 3.5 or 4? it has the new 600 hp engine standard.
so i would say its either a gen 3 or a gen 3.5 or a gen 4 for the current viper.
as you can see i'm a car enthusiast, i love all cars the same and i love the study their design and differences and their evolution and i do love the current trend of cars with integrated rear bumpers, headlamps and small green house.
the most outdated thing about our nsx is the shelf rear bumper, and the rear taillights where the lens is not clear like the modern cars where you can see the designs in them.
i love the viper, the last gen 3 i drove scared to shit out of me, it really did feel too fast for the streets but my friends 500+whp supra didn't feel quit as scary. hmmmm
i love the z06 and i would like to own one someday but i also love the 02+ nsx. if only my car had an extra 50 or hp it would be perfect. i'm looking for 110-112mph trap speed n/a. that would be just perfect.
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Well I think we can all agree that there are surely faster cars out there and I believe 100hp would surely improve things and the car could handle that.
So to Batman; what do you think of 16s and 17s on a 91? Do you think that the stock 15s and 16s would be a better fit and make it actually feel or be faster? The reason I ask, at the fear of drifting off topic, is that my plan is to wear out the tires currently on the car Pilots on the 16s and 17s and then polish/clean up the stock wheels I have and put them back on the car to see what the difference is - the only thing I like about the larger wheels is that it makes for more tire choices. So to my next question of you for the stock wheels - what tires do you use? AND how's the wear?
Thanks,
Tim
So to Batman; what do you think of 16s and 17s on a 91? Do you think that the stock 15s and 16s would be a better fit and make it actually feel or be faster? The reason I ask, at the fear of drifting off topic, is that my plan is to wear out the tires currently on the car Pilots on the 16s and 17s and then polish/clean up the stock wheels I have and put them back on the car to see what the difference is - the only thing I like about the larger wheels is that it makes for more tire choices. So to my next question of you for the stock wheels - what tires do you use? AND how's the wear?
Thanks,
Tim
i would say that this current gen is either a gen 3 or a 4.
gen 1 had no roof, no side windows, came in convertible only.
gen 2 had the slightly bigger engine, and the fixed dual bubble roof with the exhaust coming straight out the back vs out the sides like in gen 1.
gen 3 was totally redone where the hood opens in the conventional way vs openning up like a clam shell, the exhaust now comes out the sides again but with a cross over pipe to make it sound better, redone interior etc etc.
gen 3.5 or 4? it has the new 600 hp engine standard.
so i would say its either a gen 3 or a gen 3.5 or a gen 4 for the current viper.
as you can see i'm a car enthusiast, i love all cars the same and i love the study their design and differences and their evolution and i do love the current trend of cars with integrated rear bumpers, headlamps and small green house.
the most outdated thing about our nsx is the shelf rear bumper, and the rear taillights where the lens is not clear like the modern cars where you can see the designs in them.
i love the viper, the last gen 3 i drove scared to shit out of me, it really did feel too fast for the streets but my friends 500+whp supra didn't feel quit as scary. hmmmm
i love the z06 and i would like to own one someday but i also love the 02+ nsx. if only my car had an extra 50 or hp it would be perfect. i'm looking for 110-112mph trap speed n/a. that would be just perfect.
It seems that with ur logic on Viper Gens that the NSX is on it's 4th gen. LOL
NA1, NA2, Targa top, Frog-eyes headlights (found often on prey in the animal world).
:tongue:
I believe the Viper is just 2 gens: curvy body and the other one is chiseled
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Years ago one of the car mags, I think C&D or R&T did a tire/wheels comparison on the track. If memory served me right they compared 15 - 18's rims. The width of the tire was left OEM. Changes would be in the aspect ratio to preserve overall diameter.
The 16's posted the fastest lap times. The theory was that it was low enough side profile 225/50/16, but didn't have the additional rotational mass of larger wheels.
Of course if u factor in the options for greater selection of wider tires, 17's were the best since it's closest to 16's.
For stock HP NSX 16/17 is probably the best (I had a set of these that came with the NSX when I bought it, in addition to the 15/16). The ride quality and handling combination was the best.
I settled for 17/18 for looks. The ride is stiffer than 16/17 and as u can imagine acceleration numbers suffered a little.
Worse for acceleration, handling, and road feeling, but scored the highest on "looks" were 18/19.
absolutely not true. it is definitely at least in its 3rd gen, you should google 2nd and 3rd gen viper and see what comes up. if you were to actually go to a viper forum like viperalley and try to buy a 2nd gen, see what kind of viper you would end up buying. i bet that you would be surprised . also according to my logic there is only one generation of nsx with a lot of minor changes. im only going by how the viper is originally classified as.
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Well, the most powerful car I tried was the California, yes, POWER, yet, it was strange experience for me since that car's electronics/test car were in my mind more than anything in that short amount of time .. yes, my S2k was 208 @ the wheels but it was 250lb's lighter than my 260+ @ the wheels NSX.
I do agree though, power is power, as many here, i did also 8 months ago had the option of either coming this way or that way .. I decided to come this way and do CTSC some day ... -someday I want to own a Viper ACR or Z06 for sure-
I guess you just got tired of your NSX .. I don't blame me you, I am happy with mine (but you have GTO there hahah) and I know i will for long time since the NSX was such "dream car" for me B4 anything, as far as speed, when I go into spirited drives I can keep up with the Porsches GT3-RS's (last year's)... that surprised me ... and even like 2 weeks ago during a eurosunday, we had a 400+ whp M3 ... when we were playing, I didn't got remotely smoked as I assumed I was, maybe the BMW guy didn't want to push it, ... but yeah NSX's are no were near as fast as today's monsters ... but I feel like performance wise is very close and a SOS supercharger or CTSC IMHO can satisfy my "street" needs of power ...or maybe all ends up on who's driving? lol
Oscar
Oscar
Thanks to Batman for the tire/wheel dissertation - very informative- so I guess for best results I'll keep the wheels that I have (16s and 17s) on the car for best all round performance. Is there much sacrifice in comfort over the OEM wheels?
BTW - nice wheels on your NSX. I'll have pics of mine shortly once I get my car - hopefully this weekend!!!!!
Are we far enough off topic yet? LOL
BTW - nice wheels on your NSX. I'll have pics of mine shortly once I get my car - hopefully this weekend!!!!!
Are we far enough off topic yet? LOL
I'm on the fence about the NSX.
Don't really know if i want to sell it or not.
If I had unlimited $$$ and space to park it, I would keep it and just keep adding cars.
But once u experience massive HP and TQ for a daily driven car with creature comports like my GTO, u might understand why the NSX was demoted to Garage Queen status.
CTSC NSXs have been known to blow up. that and taking the NSX on high speed turns where there are oil starvation issues have made me lean towards the Z06, which delivers more HP and HP: weight than a CTSC NSX and get better MPGs.
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