Confirmed: Replacement will be Front Engine setup.

[Spinner]

That's very interesting, if Honda got two prototype running in circles in Japan, that means the car has already been desinged. If the car is due for 08 release, that means the spy photos should be out by early next year, be ready for the Geneva/Tokyo auto show.

They probably have test mules, but I doubt a completed design. Take the GTR for example....the early test mules were sighted as modified, wide-bodied G35 coupes....at this point no one knew what they were gonna look like. the engineering could very well be done or close to done, but not the skin...atleast to the best of my knowledge, or from what I've gathered so far.

 

[nsxtacey]

Re: wishful thinking, buttt...

Even Audi !!!!!!! is going to a mid-engine car.

I can see honda/acura doing what audi did w/ the gallardo and s8/6, using the same engine basically.
Maybe thats why they have both a front and mid engine prototypes? That wouldn't be such a bad idea i guess, a v10 luxury sports sedan and a midengine v10 supercar.

 

[Spinner]

I wonder whether the main reason they want to go front engine is because of platform sharing. That would significantly cut costs, and this time, they probably don't want to repeat the same mistake...they're probably hoping that the new replacement might be a huge profit for them. Just a guess.:smile: Any other thoughts?

 

[DocL]

I wonder whether the main reason they want to go front engine is because of platform sharing... and this time, they probably don't want to repeat the same mistake...

What mistake? A mid-engine sports car that upped the ante for every other sports car manufacturer out there. In the late 80's and early 90's there were no reliable mid-engine exotics being built until the NSX came along. The car did great until around 2000 when other lesser marque's started pumping out high horsepower plastic cars.

 

[93BlkOnBlkNSX]

I don't care if they put the engine on the roof as long as it's 50/50 and V10 and looks anything close to as sharp as the first generation (actually it wouldn't look too sharp with the engine on the roof but you get my point).

 

[Spinner]

What mistake? A mid-engine sports car that upped the ante for every other sports car manufacturer out there. In the late 80's and early 90's there were no reliable mid-engine exotics being built until the NSX came along. The car did great until around 2000 when other lesser marque's started pumping out high horsepower plastic cars.

What I meant was not the car in itself, but the marketing and one that would make a profit for Honda. Alot of sports cars don't generate any profit for a company (Viper, NSX, Supra) unless the company is known for its sports cars (Porsche, Ferrari, Lotus). In fact, if I'm not wrong, the cost of the R&D that went into the NSX still hasn't been recovered by the NSX sales. There was an article posted about 6 months ago.

I think they're just trying to make sure that the NSX will sell very well this time. With the way Honda has been going recently, I have faith in them. The fact that they opted for a turbo charged motor in the MDX or RDX or whatever is pretty cool imo. Shows that they're willing to adapt.

 

[drmanny3]

I am always surprised by how demanding everyone seems to be about how Honda should design their car. I am just delighted that they are going forward with a new sports car. I have every reason to believe that what ever they introduce it will be a great car. I just expect that from Honda. I am also surprised how many of the prime members expect Honda to create a $175,000 F fighter and sell it for under $100k, preferably at $60k. It is just unrealistic. The Z06 is a terrific value at $75k compared to what is out there. Yet many of us want a car that is more unique and limited. I just don't think we are going to get a car that kicks ass on the exotics and sells for less than the common Corvette.

With respect to where they place the engine. Look at how popular the Porsche 911 is. You can get a pretty mean car the GT3 or GT2 or the Turbo that is a hell of a screamer. They are not cheap-- that is the price one pays for having a performance based automobile.

In the end I just want Honda to come through with a car and in my lifetime. If they wait too long they will lose the momentum that the NSX created. Most people I run into who do not have an NSX are always surprised that the car remained in production through 2005. They thought it stopped 5 years ago. It is kind of like buying a laptop computer. If you keep waiting for the fastest one you will never buy one. Sometimes it is better to be in the game than out.
Manny

 

[H-carWizKid]

Re: wishful thinking, buttt...

What mistake? A mid-engine sports car that upped the ante for every other sports car manufacturer out there. In the late 80's and early 90's there were no reliable mid-engine exotics being built until the NSX came along. The car did great until around 2000 when other lesser marque's started pumping out high horsepower plastic cars.

Hey Doc, the assertion that the NSX was a "mistake" on Honda's part is a common misconception. Most folks perpetuating this one will turn around and cite the gajillions of dollars it cost for Honda to build the car vs. the profit.

This is small thinking, you really have to see the whole picture to understand why the NSX was a success.

People who perpetuate this myth really think Honda execs didn't do the math and realize that the profit from the total number of cars it expected to build would not outweigh the development/ production costs.

I think that if you believe that, you don't understand the cost of marketing a new technology, and an entire line of products (think millions of gagillions of dollars- even more than the development and production costs of one aluminum bodied sports car

The thing to remember is, the NSX was a "Halo" car for Honda, and even Honda knew it would never fit into the profit model of a Civic. Halo's don't get built on a standard profit model, if they did, then you wouldn't see limited production runs. You would see market flooding to attempt to recoup expense.


Halo cars get built to prove a point. You cited several of those points in your post (upped the ante, reliable...) Then they take that proof and apply it to the other cars in the line- VTEC powertrains in Integras, Civics, and the like. Sure some people will buy the Halo, but most people will buy the trickled down technologies in the "everyman" cars you build your profit model from those.

So I ask: How many Civic Si, Integra GSRs, Preludes, and Integra Type Rs do you think got sold to folks who admired an NSX, but couldn't put one in their garage?


I know of at least one Integra GSR that sold that way (mine) and there are hoards of guys like me out there.

A Halo profit model worked out well for Honda. The NSX helped out in marketing the lower lines, and so a portion of those sales can be attributed to the NSX.

Don't believe it? Ask yourself: Why did VW a.g. built the Veyron at a staggering loss?


Philip

 

[NSXGMS]

No, he said it was specificaly the NSX replacement.

Wow, well I can't see a Honda V-10 FE car. It just doesn't make any sense. So therefore, Honda is scrapping the V-10?

Too many mixed signals. In a way, I have to give more weight to the Honda official statement of a V-10 and their promise to set the bar again.

I almost take the "replacement" of the NSX to mean that this will become Honda's new flagship car--not a true NSX successor.

This has basically become a joke. I cannot see any reason for Honda to be so cabalistic with this project. They are only hurting themselves. Secrets only create anticipation among us few NSX owners. The rest of the world could care less. I can't figure out why Honda continuously fails to market this car properly.

As a side note, I agree the NSX was not a failure. In the small picture it was a financial failure but it served it's purpose. Honda has no one to blame but themselves for selling about 1000 units between 2002-2005. The car isn't wholly to blame.

 

[Hugh]

Confirmed: Replacement will be Front Engine setup.

Please apply Internet Filter No.1 to the above quoted post.

Filter No.1 states: "99.9% of anything you read on a message board is pure unadulterated bullshit."

Also beware of modifiers such as "confirmed", "positively", "revealed", "my friend works for...."

 

[Spinner]

Please apply Internet Filter No.1 to the above quoted post.

Filter No.1 states: "99.9% of anything you read on a message board is pure unadulterated bullshit."

Also beware of modifiers such as "confirmed", "positively", "revealed", "my friend works for...."

You forgot add Filter No.2:
All posts by Hugh should be translated as: I'm a sad, bitter old man. Look at me.

 

[Spinner]

Wow, well I can't see a Honda V-10 FE car. It just doesn't make any sense. So therefore, Honda is scrapping the V-10?

Too many mixed signals. In a way, I have to give more weight to the Honda official statement of a V-10 and their promise to set the bar again.

I almost take the "replacement" of the NSX to mean that this will become Honda's new flagship car--not a true NSX successor.

This has basically become a joke. I cannot see any reason for Honda to be so cabalistic with this project. They are only hurting themselves. Secrets only create anticipation among us few NSX owners. The rest of the world could care less. I can't figure out why Honda continuously fails to market this car properly.

As a side note, I agree the NSX was not a failure. In the small picture it was a financial failure but it served it's purpose. Honda has no one to blame but themselves for selling about 1000 units between 2002-2005. The car isn't wholly to blame.

The V10 is still a go. All the designs being done in the NA studios just point towards it being placed up front. As to whether it will be a true sports car or a GT, I have no clue. You also explained it better than me. The NSX as a car was not a failure...instead it was a wake up call to the rest of the world. But financialy, it wasn't supposed to pull in great numbers, but they did alot worse than they expected. As you said, the only person to blame is Honda and not the car itself. But after 15 long years, the NSX has served its purpose...

 

[DocL]

You forgot add Filter No.2:
All posts by Hugh should be translated as: I'm a sad, bitter old man. Look at me.

[Michael Buffer] "Let's get ready tooooo RRRRRUUUUUUMMMBBBBLLLEEE!!" [/Michael Buffer]

 

[Spinner]

[Michael Buffer] "Let's get ready tooooo RRRRRUUUUUUMMMBBBBLLLEEE!!" [/Michael Buffer]

:biggrin: :biggrin: Nah, its ok. I'll let Hugh have his moment. I'll just stick to the subject.

 

[H-carWizKid]

Wow, well I can't see a Honda V-10 FE car. It just doesn't make any sense. So therefore, Honda is scrapping the V-10?

In 1988 I can promise you would never have been able to "see" Honda- the producer of gas efficient econo-boxes producing an all Aluminum M/R car that could smoke a Porsche.

But they did it didn't they? :wink:

I almost take the "replacement" of the NSX to mean that this will become Honda's new flagship car--not a true NSX successor.

And my guess is... you'd be right!

This has basically become a joke. I cannot see any reason for Honda to be so cabalistic with this project. They are only hurting themselves. Secrets only create anticipation among us few NSX owners. The rest of the world could care less. I can't figure out why Honda continuously fails to market this car properly.

Actually, we are a small nich market that Honda is hurting themselves by keeping the secret from, and it is more likely that they are channeling their efforts at the rest of the world who could currently, (as you said) "care less" about a Honda Halo car, past or future.

I am of a belief that they are looking to market a different set of technologies with this car. As far as I can tell, they never even promised us a "true sportscar" as a replacement- Although they eluded to it with the now defunct HSC, for all we know the new car might be a GT, aimed at a buyer who doesn't share our desire for impractical two seaters with bad tire wear, and great handling.

I am still putting all my chips on a GT, overloaded with the latest satellite radio/nav/DVD stereo/mission control dashboard screens/bluetooth connectivity/ SH-AWD and a host of shit I can't even think of.

Thankfully I already have access to what I like. it is sitting in a garage, polished, and perfect under its form fitted red blanket waiting to go for a ride this weekend.

I intend to continue to enjoy that! :biggrin:

Phuck speculation.

Philip

 

[Hugh]

You forgot add Filter No.2:
All posts by Hugh should be translated as: I'm a sad, bitter old man. Look at me.

Yup, that's me to a T! Here's a photo taken 2 weeks ago at The Dragon to prove that you're right!
Woe is me! I'm just a broken down old piece of shit with no sense of humor. I'm so depressed! Maybe I should just jump off this here cliff!

Let's assume for a second that you did have a friend that worked on Honda's next-gen NSX design team and he did feed you this super secret wowie kazowie tidbit of information about the new car. Well guess what? You just ruined whatever trust he had in you by mouthing off to a public message board. Lucky for us your friend is imaginary and his information makes about as much sense as this photo.....

 

[MoreRPMs]

I wonder whether the main reason they want to go front engine is because of platform sharing. That would significantly cut costs, and this time, they probably don't want to repeat the same mistake...they're probably hoping that the new replacement might be a huge profit for them. Just a guess.:smile: Any other thoughts?

Which platform would they choose to build a "supercar" from...the econo Civic, or the slightly better Accord chassis?

I've got a feeling that Mr. Honda would slap the hell out of the engineer(s) in charge of the NSX II. They are (at this point in time) at least 8 years late to the party. And from the looks of it, they probably won't be making it to the sports car shindig, but rather to the country club gathering of poseurs in their SL Benzes and Astons.

 

[Spinner]

Which platform would they choose to build a "supercar" from...the econo Civic, or the slightly better Accord chassis?

I've got a feeling that Mr. Honda would slap the hell out of the engineer(s) in charge of the NSX II. They are (at this point in time) at least 8 years late to the party. And from the looks of it, they probably won't be making it to the sports car shindig, but rather to the country club gathering of poseurs in their SL Benzes and Astons.

I don't know what they can share the platform with...perhaps the next gen. RL or whatever...kinda like how the X5 shares the same platform as the 5 series and M5. You did bring up a good point though...especially since most of Honda's line up is front wheel drive. Maybe I'm looking too deep into it. Maybe they just chose it to compete against GT cars. Who knows.:tongue:

 

[Spinner]

Yup, that's me to a T! Here's a photo taken 2 weeks ago at The Dragon to prove that you're right!
Woe is me! I'm just a broken down old piece of shit with no sense of humor. I'm so depressed! Maybe I should just jump off this here cliff!

Let's assume for a second that you did have a friend that worked on Honda's next-gen NSX design team and he did feed you this super secret wowie kazowie tidbit of information about the new car. Well guess what? You just ruined whatever trust he had in you by mouthing off to a public message board. Lucky for us your friend is imaginary and his information makes about as much sense as this photo.....

....uhhhmm...ooookaaayyyy...

 

[MoreRPMs]

I think they can proceed with their GT project by building a 2 door RL; completely change the sheet metal vs its 4 door counterpart ( a la last gen Accord).

Their halo should be unique; I would hope even moreso than the 1st NSX.

 

[BD]

What I meant was not the car in itself, but the marketing and one that would make a profit for Honda. Alot of sports cars don't generate any profit for a company (Viper, NSX, Supra) unless the company is known for its sports cars (Porsche, Ferrari, Lotus). In fact, if I'm not wrong, the cost of the R&D that went into the NSX still hasn't been recovered by the NSX sales. There was an article posted about 6 months ago.

I think they're just trying to make sure that the NSX will sell very well this time. With the way Honda has been going recently, I have faith in them. The fact that they opted for a turbo charged motor in the MDX or RDX or whatever is pretty cool imo. Shows that they're willing to adapt.

Well, if your case, you are wrong. Honda built the NSX as a halo car, of course every car manufacture is in to make money, but if the NSX sales didn't recover the R & D cost, the design excercise filtered down to other cars such as S2k, and the total cost eventually will be recovered. If Honda was willing to take a major lost on the NSX, they would have kept the car around 65 grand and take the lost, and perhaps sell more.

Honda's image in sports car is direct refection of their motor sports heritage, such as F1, CART, IRL, etc. The only other car manufactures have achieved similar excellence are Ferrari, Renault Ford, and MB in the area of extreme auto sports. They were racing in F1 before they even builted 4 wheelers, and They won some races too!!!

 

[AU_NSX]

Honda's image in sports car is direct refection of their motor sports heritage, such as F1, CART, IRL, etc. The only other car manufactures have achieved similar excellence are Ferrari, Renault Ford, and MB in the area of extreme auto sports. They were racing in F1 before they even builted 4 wheelers, and They won some races too!!!

I agree...

However, what worries me is the change of management... Soichiro is dead...

And currently... Honda does not make sportscars anymore...

Are the Honda management being forced to compete with the new Lexus from Toyota and the new Nissan GTR? It would seem so! Then a front engine GT is quite likely...

 

[Hugh]

I agree...

However, what worries me is the change of management... Soichiro is dead...

He died 14 years ago. Unless they called in the Re-Animator and kept him going until 2005 the recent management saw fit to continue producing the NSX for quite some time after his death.

Honda has already announced a complete revamping of the Acura name and image including shifting the factory racing to the Acura name. An ALMS car is ready to go for next season and they've publicly announced that they're committed to "having an ultra high-performance vehicle in the Acura lineup in the future"

So, everyone take a chill pill and wait for the final product. Anything you read these days in the automotive press might as well be the ramblings of paranoid schizophrenic. They don't have a clue, no one posting on any message boards has a clue and no one will have a clue for at least a year or two.

 

[rickysals]

I'm curious... would this scenario (which has no merit whatsoever that I was just pondering) make Honda fanatics happy?

Flagship FR Aston Martin-esque V10 GTR/Lexus fighter say oh, $120,000

Then maybe come out with a ME Cayman fighter? Not a superexotic, but basically a better priced version of the current NSX. 330HP highrevving V6 in a lightweight ME setup. Say $60,000.

Just a thought. In case we don't get the "Japanese gallardo" we all wish for, that seems like it'd be a neat way to go. Maybe no sense in developing a ME platform for one car, but what the hell I'm a dreamer

 

[AU_NSX]

He died 14 years ago. Unless they called in the Re-Animator and kept him going until 2005 the recent management saw fit to continue producing the NSX for quite some time after his death.

Yes and the recent management are completely to blame for the NSX's TOTAL lack of further development after he died! Yes they kept building it but invested zero in its future development!

They are also to blame for Honda now exiting totally from producing sportscars! Honda are a company building economically safe & mass produced boring everyday transport vehicles.

This situation would NEVER have been allowed to happen had Soichiro lived on!

Even all their Formula 1 engineers left and went to Ferrari when the new Honda management axed the funding for F1 shortly after he died! Have a look at the "N" for Nippon in a little white sticker on the Ferrari F1 in front of the steering wheel next time!

Whether you want to accept it or not... Honda are not the company they were when they developed the NSX...