ALLAN
Suspended
i love the pagani! i saw one in ft lauderdale. very very cool!
Comptechs Best NSX not near good enough (C&D)
- Thread starter NetViper
- Start date
As the blower turns...hahaha
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91 Red/Ivory #2061
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91 Red/Ivory #2061
Well, I don't know about all this. First off, I think you need to get a little perspective on this issue. Now, in 1991, Ferrari was making the V12 Testarossa and the V8 348 Model. Since 1991, Ferrari has moved from the 348 to the awesome 355 and now to the 360 Modena. Each incarnation of the Ferrari has continued to inprove and build upon the success of the other. Ferrari was also offering the F-40 supercar back then. So, there was a lot of hardware out there from Ferrari that the NSX could battle depending on driver quality, but all things being equal, the F-40, Testarossa and even the 348 were quite a match for the NSX.
Since then Ferrari has contined to do much more than cut the top off the car and inch up horsepower from 270hp to 290hp. Acura let the NSX go for way too long. Keep in mind that 1991 was also the year that the Miata came out and Mazda was responsible for the rebirth of the ragtop... and they could only justify waiting until 1999 to change the body style. The NSX was suffering long before 1999 and should have been put out of its misery long before now.
The funny thing is that as much as I miss my NSX, and as much as I would like to buy a new one, I am still waiting until I see what the new one is like before buying anything. But, I still regret not buying my 1999 Ferrari 355 when I had the chance, and I waited for the 2000 NSX. Don't even try to compare the NSX to a Ferrari, and I don't think Ferrari would ever make anyting for $90,000 and they would never make another underpowered car like the NSX with the exhaust sound more akin the the Honda Civic than a Ferrari.
Just my $0.02 and change for your $0.04.
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Gordon G. Miller, III
2000 NSX-T #51 Yellow/Black
Anyone know what's going on with the brakes in this test?
in the article it quotes 710.1 ft for 150-0.
on the C&D site it quotes 657.33 ft.
seems like a huge difference to me!
Here is the link to the C&D site: http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/comparisontests/2002/september/supercars/0209_sc_challenge_course_map.xml
in the article it quotes 710.1 ft for 150-0.
on the C&D site it quotes 657.33 ft.
seems like a huge difference to me!
Here is the link to the C&D site: http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/comparisontests/2002/september/supercars/0209_sc_challenge_course_map.xml
Sorry to be trivial, but I believe the Miata's debut was a 1990 model.
PEOPLE COME ON.THERE ARE DIFERENT TASTES AND DIFERENTE COLOR.LIKE THERE'S DIFERENT CARS TO DIFERENTS TASTES.
PEACE OUT.
Sounds like we could all use a little perspective.
Most of the magazines of the time considered the NSX a far, far better car than the Testarossa or the 348. Not just for reliability and handling and user-friendliness, but also for performance; the numbers posted by the early NSX significantly bettered those for either Italian model. That's why Motor Trend in 1991 dared to call the NSX "the best sports car in the world - any time, any place, any price".
Magazines didn't include the F40 in such comparisons because it was comparable to today's McLaren or Saleen - a limited-production vehicle too small in volume (and perhaps too expensive?) to be considered when comparing production cars.
The introduction of the NSX in 1990 was seen as a real embarrassment for Ferrari, in that it showed that if another manufacturer - and, horrors!, one from Japan - set its mind to it, it could bring out a car that was a "better Ferrari than Ferrari was selling". Many credit the NSX for giving Ferrari the impetus to make the continual improvements seen in the F355 and later the 360, improvements in reliability and user-friendliness and handling.
It was only with the introduction of the F355 that the automotive press once again gave Ferrari respect for producing one of the best sports cars in the world. The F355 appeared in various comparisons with the NSX and was generally considered its equal (with some writers preferring one vehicle, others the other).
David, you're starting to sound just like those juvenile Supra flamers. They come to the NSX forums just to flame the NSX; they must be very insecure, never content just to participate in the forums for their own car. They must lead very unhappy lives, living only for the chance to diss owners of another car. Too bad they can't just enjoy their cars without groveling for recognition from another group of owners. Very sad.
Not the Pinto, but those other cars are the cars that the magazines way back then were comparing the MR2 to. Road and Track did a comparison of mid-engine vs fwd vs rwd, and the CRX was one of the two cars chosen for fwd, and the two cars they chose for mid-engine were the MR2 and the Fiero. I don't think the MR2 has ever been in a magazine comparison test against the NSX.
Where do YOU get off comparing a car with only 200 hp, that did 0-60 and the 1/4 mile a full second slower, to the NSX? Get real. And don't pull that "my modded car can go faster than an NSX" crap - yes, maybe it can, but THAT'S where the Pinto analogy comes in. You can make a Pinto go faster than an NSX, too. But that doesn't put it in the same class. Even modded, a Pinto is still a Pinto, and an MR2 is still an MR2. Nice car - but it's no NSX.
[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 18 August 2002).]
You cannot compare the NSX with the Testarossa. They are two completely different cars. One is a sportscar (NSX) and the other is a grand tourer GT (Testarossa). The Testarossa weighs over 4000lbs which in itself takes it out of the sports car world and in a different league. As for the 348, yes the NSX was superior to it in everything except motor, but do you know what, which car sold more even if the NSX was labeled the best sports car in the world? To take back the title Ferrari came back with the 355, and no matter what anyone tells you, they are not comparable to the NSX in anyway. From all the magazines I have read Ferrari either finished first or second (only price was its biggest disadvantage-starting at $129,000). And on most of these comparisons between Ferrari,NSX, Porsche a 355 convertible was being used. The 355 is a superior car over either the 3.0 or 3.2 NSX. The only place where the NSX excels is reliability, but Ferrari wasn't thtat far behind. Then the Ferrari came out with the 360 which is even more superior yet (personally I don't like the way it looks) and throughout all this time the only thing the NSX did was bump up the engine from 3.0 to 3.2 which I believe was because of the new OBDII laws which took effect in 1997 and new faired in headlights. To go from a 348 to an NSX is an upgrade but to go from a 355/360 to an NSX is a downgrade. $90,000 for an NSX put it into Ferrari territory. A 355 coupe starting price was $129,000. Someone who could afford 90,000 could usually afford 30,000 more and they bought the 355 for what it had to offer (an 8500 rpm limit, 5 valves per cylinder, great looks, great heritage, an all around great sports car, and most of all a 380hp engine not to mention the sound and feel of an F1 racer). Even the Porsche at the time the 993 was better than the NSX. In 1996 for a little over $100,00 put you behind the wheel of a 993tt which as a total package was way superior than the NSX (400 hp and torque, all wheel drive, reliability to match or even better that of the NSX). This is the reason why the NSX sales plummetted and continue to do so. The NSX needs a breath of fresh air breathed into it not just change the tailights and headlight. I think they should just pull the plug on the NSX and leave us with the good memories, because if they do come up with a hybrid for the NSX it will leave a sour taste at least in my mouth, and will be a knock against what was once considered the top sprts car in the world.
I can't help but sit back and listen to the arguments about the performance of the NSX vs car X. I hate to say it but without a driver behind the wheel that truly knows how to drive it doesn't matter what car they are in and the performance of any given car is irrelevant.
The only time performance matters is when you can drive to the cars potential. I have found VERY FEW drivers that can make the NSX go fast. In my very limited track experience I have found that I can get my RSX-S around the tracks faster than 90% of the NSX's out there. Most of the NSX's I have met up with at the track have been far from stock.
I miss my NSX but I don't think it is because of it's overall performance (good or bad) I just simply enjoyed driving it. There was a pleasure to the experience that simply isn't there with my current car. I know it isn't because I had figured out how to drive to the cars potential as we all know what happened when I attempted it.
I have noticed that I can be faster than Vipers on the track as well. But being out there as an onlooker I would be far more impressed with the Viper than the NSX's performance simply because it seems that though there are some slow Vipers out there, the fastest car at the track almost every time I am there is one Viper or another.
-matt
The only time performance matters is when you can drive to the cars potential. I have found VERY FEW drivers that can make the NSX go fast. In my very limited track experience I have found that I can get my RSX-S around the tracks faster than 90% of the NSX's out there. Most of the NSX's I have met up with at the track have been far from stock.
I miss my NSX but I don't think it is because of it's overall performance (good or bad) I just simply enjoyed driving it. There was a pleasure to the experience that simply isn't there with my current car. I know it isn't because I had figured out how to drive to the cars potential as we all know what happened when I attempted it.
I have noticed that I can be faster than Vipers on the track as well. But being out there as an onlooker I would be far more impressed with the Viper than the NSX's performance simply because it seems that though there are some slow Vipers out there, the fastest car at the track almost every time I am there is one Viper or another.
-matt
The NSX sold more cars than the 348 in 1991 and 1992.
OBDII laws took effect in 1995, not 1997. The NSX headlights did not change from 1991 through 2001.
Anything else you'd like to get wrong?
No, it wasn't. Only the turbo version was.
Nsxstacy of course the NSX outsold it in 1991-1992 it was new then. But what happened in 1993 or 1994 when the 348 came out as a spyder version? What happened to the NSX then? Or in 1995 when the 355 came out? Don't try to point my faults because you are very wrong.
As for the Porsche that is what I stated, for price of alittle over 100,000 close to the NSX's 90,000 you can have the turbo which is a far superior car than the NSX, (me personally I had one and am not a big fan of Porsche, don't like the feel of the car). So wher am I wrong in that.
As for OBDII yes it was passed in 1995 but you had till 1997 to change or update. That is why in 1996-1997 alot of cars saw changes. In 1995 OBDI was around because in my 355 I have as well as in the NSX it remained until I believe 1997 when there was jump from 3.0l to 3.2l. I may be wrong but I know that is why there was a jump.
As for the headlights they changed in 2002 but what i was stating was that throughout its life this was all that was done to the NSX as well as a 6 speed to better the car, which kinda falls short doesn't it? It well reflected in sales.
I have not knocked the NSX in anyway I am just stating my opinion and fact. You don't have to get all defensive now, take it easy, breathe in and out, breathe in and out and keep telling yourself:
Pins and needles, and needles and pins
A happy man is a man who grins
As for the Porsche that is what I stated, for price of alittle over 100,000 close to the NSX's 90,000 you can have the turbo which is a far superior car than the NSX, (me personally I had one and am not a big fan of Porsche, don't like the feel of the car). So wher am I wrong in that.
As for OBDII yes it was passed in 1995 but you had till 1997 to change or update. That is why in 1996-1997 alot of cars saw changes. In 1995 OBDI was around because in my 355 I have as well as in the NSX it remained until I believe 1997 when there was jump from 3.0l to 3.2l. I may be wrong but I know that is why there was a jump.
As for the headlights they changed in 2002 but what i was stating was that throughout its life this was all that was done to the NSX as well as a 6 speed to better the car, which kinda falls short doesn't it? It well reflected in sales.
I have not knocked the NSX in anyway I am just stating my opinion and fact. You don't have to get all defensive now, take it easy, breathe in and out, breathe in and out and keep telling yourself:
Pins and needles, and needles and pins
A happy man is a man who grins
If anyone on this board has sounded like a supra owner trying to make his car best creation since sliced bread it is you Nsxtacy. You are the one whining and crying ooh the NSx is this or is that, or the mr2 or 355 don't compare. Stop your whining boy!
For one thing, because a 911 Turbo will cost you $115,000 (I don't know about you, but I consider $15K more than "a little") and you can buy a new NSX for $75K. So, comparing the actual selling prices of the two cars, you will spend at least 50 percent more to buy the 911 Turbo.
As for your earlier statement about the "better car", were you talking about the 993 Turbo or the 993 NA? Your statement referred only to the 993. While it may have been true about the 993 TT, the 993 NA is (or was) most assuredly NOT better than the NSX.
The NSX complied with OBDII in 1995.
Blurr you are completely right about what you say about handling. I am sure most of the NSX owners (not here, in general) never saw a track in their life yet are willing to jump in front and say how awesome it handles and performs. As I have said numerous times the NSX is a great all around car and very fun to drive but it is underpowered. You don't reach the cars potential on the streets but you are able to see how it performs. When I first test drove the NSX I was a bit disappointed because I had bought into the notion that this car is superior to everything it is fast it handles great. It did almost all of the above except the being fast part. I bought one anyway because I liked the overall package of the car. But I like many were and still are disappointed with its performance. I have never driven a new one (97 and up) so I only speak for the older ones. Maybe I am missing alot by not driving the later ones and could sway me towards being blind to every car beside the NSX
ALLAN
Suspended
Uh you just said the 993 is not a better car than the nsx, so if is not better, therefore it is worse, therefore the nsx is better. that is the way i understand it. i was just rationalizing the complete porsche lineup to coincide with all the nsx model years.
this thread is very interesting and i must admit im adicted to it. but i miss go and quickly make love to my wife or ill be in the dog house or sleeping in the lambo!
so give me 5 minutes and ill be right back!!!!
this thread is very interesting and i must admit im adicted to it. but i miss go and quickly make love to my wife or ill be in the dog house or sleeping in the lambo!
so give me 5 minutes and ill be right back!!!!
That's funny, because apparently you are misinterpreting my statement that "the MR2 is still an MR2" as making reference to its snob appeal, or lack thereof. I don't think of the MR2 as a car that lacks snob appeal, any more than I think of the NSX as a car that has snob appeal (and, if anything, I think that the NSX doesn't have snob appeal, but that's a separate topic - and BTW, the NSX has great seats).
When I say that an MR2 is still an MR2, I think of the MR2 as a reliable, relatively inexpensive, good-performing, unattractive (my personal opinion of the styling), fun to drive, nice "budget sports car for the masses". Same class as the CRX and the Miata. Hasn't been made for years (since 1995), so used ones are cheap, although most have high mileage and may have some rust. Perfect car for the college student or recent grad on a budget who wants to have some fun.
Snob appeal? I think of cars in terms of their capabilities and costs. I don't think of cars in terms of "snob appeal" or their "name". YOU'RE the only one that brought this into the conversation, and YOU'RE the only one thinking that way.
[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 18 August 2002).]
Yes that is what I stated most owners be it Ferrari, NSX, mr2, or pinto owners that absolutely insist and fall over themselves saying how their car outhandles everyone else has never seen a track in their lifetime. Those who have been on a track do not have to prove anything to anyone. It is these type of owners that I respect. I am not saying which category you fall into because I don't know you and am not judging you. How many of those cars were driven to their fullest on the track. I would probbly say about 10percent. The others just wanted to have fun. I have also been to Porshe and Ferrari events where most of the owners only like to get on the track and drive their cars to not even 7/10 of their limit. But that does not give them a right to say that their car handles better and have to be all defensive. I personally don't drive my car to 10/10 of its capability and actually don't even like going to the track much. To me the biggest factor in buying a car and choosing one is----the smile across my face when driving one.
Truer words have never been spoken.
...still, some mutual respect and decency would be welcome around here...
-- DavidV
www.boostedgroup.com
Hey Alan, no offense. I just realized I'm getting a bit rude. That's bad enough, but I've also come to think you're a pretty good guy based on your posts. For a rich guy that is.
[This message has been edited by sjs (edited 18 August 2002).]
[This message has been edited by sjs (edited 18 August 2002).]
OK, I CANT TAKE THIS ANYMORE!!! I have been following this from day one and now I am geting pissed off!
MR2... I dont give a flying F*** about your car! Please stop posting pics and looking for some form of recognition. Save it for the MR2 forum. Sure you have a modifed car... BFD, I do too! Guess what??? It is still an NSX just when I first bought it. I dont go to the Ferrari/Lambo forums and whine to them that my NSX is comparable to their cars. Who F-ing cares???
Make NO mistake, you own an MR2. Nothing more, nothing less.
SHOO FLY!!!
What compels people to post here if they do not, or have never owned an NSX? I thought this was still NSX PRIME.
MR2... I dont give a flying F*** about your car! Please stop posting pics and looking for some form of recognition. Save it for the MR2 forum. Sure you have a modifed car... BFD, I do too! Guess what??? It is still an NSX just when I first bought it. I dont go to the Ferrari/Lambo forums and whine to them that my NSX is comparable to their cars. Who F-ing cares???
Make NO mistake, you own an MR2. Nothing more, nothing less.
SHOO FLY!!!
What compels people to post here if they do not, or have never owned an NSX? I thought this was still NSX PRIME.
TheSwishh have you ever thought that this site might be a good source of information for someone thinking about buying an NSX? It sure as hell was for me. Does you owning an NSX make you any better than anyone else in this world? Everyone is entitled to an opinion and if you don't like this thread (I for one am sitting back and loving it) you can always just skip and not click on it. As the owner of the mr2 has stated he is a potential NSX buyer who right now owns an Mr2. Who knows, when he buys the NSX, he might end up being the biggest NSX fanatic and say Toyota mrWHO?
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