Comptechs Best NSX not near good enough (C&D)

[bill92nsx]

Same goes for anyone in the New York area. If you are interested to see how a Ferrari 355 or Testarossa, or a Lotus compares to an Esprit I will be more than happy to accomodate you. As you see I own a variety of cars and not go by marque or brand alone. I also have an 86 supercharged vette and a 500sl Mercedes. These for now are the cars that bring a smile to my face every time I slip behind the wheel. I had Porsches, supras, nissans before but I wasn't happy with them. Does that make them a lesser car? No they just didn't bring a smile to my face. As a matter of fact I actually preferred my 993 C2S over the 993 TT. To me it was a much better ride and much more fun minus the power. Does it make it better, no, just different. That is what we all have to understand, a car isn't better than another it's just different.

Netviper, dave never put down the NSX just everyone jumped down his throat when he tried to compare them. As a matter of fact he sounds like a very classy guy.

 

[bill92nsx]

Allan, you still didn't tell me what happened with the Viper guy. Post it on the Esprit list I don't think this is the right forum to get into it. Then we can attack the viper forum, they'll be dead meat

 

[ALLAN]

as for lap times, i found some nurburgring times, same driver for each car.
porsche 996 gt2=7.46
lamborghini diablo 8.09
ferrari 360 modena 8.09
dodge viper 8.10
porsche 996 8.17
ferrari 355 8.18
porsche 993 8.28
bmw m5 8.28
bmw m3 8.35
porsche boxster s 8.32
acura nsx 8.38
s2000 8.39
corvette 8.40
audi s4 8.42

 

[ALLAN]

bill i sent you an email.

 

[8000RPM]

Whew! What a thread... What was the original topic again?

Oh yeah... the C&D test.

For next year's test, we need to make sure that the best NSX this community has to offer is represented at the test. Both the Vette and Viper communities had multiple representatives in this year's test.

Since it is not likely that C&D will entertain multiple NSX entries, we need to make sure that we send our best. And considering the testing criteria used by C&D, Gerry and David's 500+hp turbo NSXs come to mind.

Who knows, considering the various FI options available now and the number of folks gunning for higher numbers, perhaps a year from now we will have a few more 500+hp samples to choose from.

 

[sjs]

Perhaps I missed it, but has anyone asked this obvious question “If you could pick either car A or car B to drive for the next few years, at no expense to you but you could only drive it not sell it, which would you pick?”. Now apply that to the NSX and a variety of other cars. The quicker and simpler that decision is, the further apart the cars are in your mind despite configuration or performance numbers. Using that test, the NSX and MR2 are very, very far apart stock With limited $ mods they still aren’t close, and with unlimited mods they get still further. (There are plenty of tuner bits for it.) Likewise the M3 and M Roadster, which is why I bought a used NSX. Some of the Porsches get to be a tougher decision with one or two turning the tables. Move up to an F355 pr F360 and the edge probably goes to them, but not because they cost more. Something like the Diablo becomes a simple choice just because it is so outrageous I couldn’t possibly turn it down even if I thought I wouldn’t really like it as well over time.

So forget everything else and try to apply this simple test as honestly (that’s the hard part) as possible. Although I have tried to support your posts David, I’m curious to hear what your choice would be and why. Of course, there are plenty of people who would honestly rather ride around in an SUV or on a Harley, so this test is a purely personal rating system. That’s why the “which is superior?” question seems so senseless to me.

 

[8000RPM]

I think we've thoroughly beaten this one to death.

We have already cast our vote and made our decisions with our own money.

So, let's move on...

 

[MAJOR STONER]

http://home.earthlink.net/~lucy4/_uimages/worms.jpg

 

[sjs]

Originally posted by 8000RPM:
I think we've thoroughly beaten this one to death.

We have already cast our vote and made our decisions with our own money.

So, let's move on...

The fact that we voted with our own money is my point. The choice is heavily influenced by that fact as stated many times by David. So my question to him was meant to have him remove that barrier and then see how tough the decision is. If it's a no-brainer to pick the NSX, then he needs to accept the fact that despite some common traits he too sees them as in a different "class".

 

[Zanardi 50]

Originally posted by RyRy210:
Okay, this is too long a thread for me to read from start to finish, so please don't mind this post if this has already been discussed.

I'm thinking that the NSX is underpowered just because of the 280hp restriction in japan.

I have a few properties in japan and the locals never have any complaints with the NSX being underpowered, because to them its the max they can get. I mean, some people say its a "gentlemen's agreement" that they impose on themselves, but no matter what, it still has an effect.

Sometimes I think, what if they had no silly agreement to begin with? Would a type R NSX have changes other than lighter parts, better suspension, and aerodynamics? What if this 280hp agreement was a global agreement? Can you imagine what it would feel like to drive a Z06 with 280hp? Or any other high end sports car with only 280 hp?

The NSX is a japanese sports car, not a European or American powerhouse. As far as japanese sports car goes, its still the one of the best.

From the looks of this thread, I know I will be flamed one way or another, but this is just my 2 cents and was not meant to offend in anyway.

RyRy210,

It's nice to know that there are others besides me who sees this 'NSX vs. Other Car' comparison from OUR perspective. I've always wondered from day one what the NSX (and other Japanese supercars) could've been if Japanese automakers never imposed these limitations to themselves. If there were never such restriction on the NSX in terms of power when compared to the global supercar community, OR, should the whole world, not just Japan, embraced the idea of restricting HP on sports cars to Japanese level (280HP), I think this thread would've died a long long time ago, simply because there are NOTHING left to argue over except one car's ability to outhandle another ( most of us here on this NSX fuorum would agree which car will come out on top in most cases

). But unfortunately, such is obviously NOT the case so the argument continues 'til eternity....
My 2 cents.

[This message has been edited by Zanardi 50 (edited 18 August 2002).]

 

[nsxtasy]

For those of you who thought the "chat" function on NSXprime was no longer operational, you were wrong; it's right here.

 

[Z18]

Originally posted by bill92nsx:
z18 the 355 is in a class above the NSX. Engine, handling, active suspension, performance, need I really go on? The 360 is even better than the 355 but I honestly think it looks like a supra on steroids.

Well, I guess we're at an impasse then. Based on personal experiences, reviews, Best Motoring Videos, and opinions from other respected individuals, I'd have to assert pretty much the opposite, especially if the NSX is a Zanardi, Type S, or S Zero.

The 3.2l vtec V6 in the later NSXes is superior to the 355's V8 in everything except sound. More torque in the mid range, and faster overall. Not to mention the 355's powerband is very much like the S2000's: there's nothing until the very end. (Sure, the official 'numbers' say otherwise (375hp, etc.))

Handling and active suspension? Maybe a little better than a regular NSX, but not in the same class as a Zanardi, Type S, or S Zero. Is this comparison then unfair? Perhaps, but then just about every enthusiast who buys an NSX changes their suspension such that it performs similarly.

Anyway, that's my experience, and that's what I've heard from people whom I respect. There's not much more that can be said if we still disagree.

*shrug*

-Z18

[This message has been edited by Z18 (edited 18 August 2002).]

[This message has been edited by Z18 (edited 18 August 2002).]

 

[nsxtasy]

i also disagree on the nsx being in the same class as the 355. the 355 is definatley a notch above.

Originally posted by bill92nsx:
couldn't agree with you more

I don't think it's a notch above. I consider the two cars (the F355 coupe with the five-speed 3.0-liter NSX coupe) pretty even. The NSX is superior in some ways (ergonomics, reliability, fit and finish, shifter); the F355 is superior in some ways (exhaust sound, leather smell); and the two cars are pretty even in some ways (engine/acceleration, brakes, handling). The F355 is more like the NSX than any other car I have ever driven; the two cars have a lot more similarities than differences.

Bill, since you voted twice, I figured I could vote twice, too.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 18 August 2002).]

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by ALLAN:
as for lap times, i found some nurburgring times, same driver for each car.
porsche 996 gt2=7.46
lamborghini diablo 8.09
ferrari 360 modena 8.09
dodge viper 8.10
porsche 996 8.17
ferrari 355 8.18
porsche 993 8.28
bmw m5 8.28
bmw m3 8.35
porsche boxster s 8.32
acura nsx 8.38
s2000 8.39
corvette 8.40
audi s4 8.42

What! No MR2? No Eclipse Turbo? No Eagle Talon?

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by RyRy210:
What if this 280hp agreement was a global agreement?

Then all the high-end sports cars would have 280 hp, and we would be comparing curb weights and bragging about the one that weighed the least.

 

[anvil]

Thanks to nsxtasy and all the others before him(/her?) who have tried to inject some non-agressive humor into this epoch discussion. I, for one, appreciate the attempt to remind us that we are, after all, entertaining and educating ourselves, ... it ain't WW3.

"T&A" ... that's good!

anvil

 

[Tom Larkins]

Originally posted by 8000RPM:
Whew! What a thread... What was the original topic again?

Oh yeah... the C&D test.

Since it is not likely that C&D will entertain multiple NSX entries, we need to make sure that we send our best.

One heck of a long thread over a test in which were not sure how good a driver was behind the wheel and was not done in a proper setting IMO. It wasn't even a road course that they ran on!! I'm not bias to any car here, but let them run some laps on a purpose built track. Then let them run a 1/4 mile and a top speed run. Until they do that, the article is toilet paper and just another test, which of course well vary.

 

[bill92nsx]

NSXtasy not to throw fule on the fire here, but have you ever driven or been in a 355? It is far superior than the 3.0l 5 speed and a small step above the 3.2l 6 speed. Not a huge step but a small one nonetheless. They say third time is a charm so my vote again goes for the 355.

It doesn't make it any better than the NSX just completely different experience. One that in my book everyone should experience once in their lifetime, you will not regret it

 

[bill92nsx]

I have to say that this thread has been very entertaining at least for me and has given me something to do on what was rather a dull weekend for me. No hard feelings towards anyone OK? I hope this thread isn't on its way down we're only 600 posts away from hitting 1000, which should be some sort of record.

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by bill92nsx:
NSXtasy not to throw fule on the fire here, but have you ever driven or been in a 355?

Yes, I've driven one, rather hard in fact. (Didn't you read the part where I said that it was more similar to the NSX than any other car I have driven, and described how the engine, handling, etc compared?) It's a nice car. Better in some areas than the NSX, worse in others, overall pretty comparable. I don't consider it a notch above.

BTW, I believe it's called the F355, not the 355. And the newer model is called the 360 Modena, not the F360.

 

[bill92nsx]

hell I would use the NSX. Would be a great donor car wouldn't it?

 

[ALLAN]

there is also another video on that sight of a type r nsx vs a type s nsx, and both ran the quarter mile slower than the ferrari 355. since we have concluded that the best motoring videos are a reliable source of info, wouldnt it be safe to say that since both the type r and type s nsx are faster than our normal nsx's whether they be 3.0 or 3.2 that the 355 is safely faster in a straightline?

 

[NetViper]

Originally posted by ALLAN:
there is also another video on that sight of a type r nsx vs a type s nsx, and both ran the quarter mile slower than the ferrari 355. since we have concluded that the best motoring videos are a reliable source of info, wouldnt it be safe to say that since both the type r and type s nsx are faster than our normal nsx's whether they be 3.0 or 3.2 that the 355 is safely faster in a straightline?

Allan, In BMI 4 the NSX S-Zero ran a 12.64 in the 1/4 .. which is faster than any 355 I have ever seen.

BTW, thanks for the boobs

If I was flat broke (kind of like now) and I couldn't get an NSX, I would get an MR2 and put the JDM package on

.... just kiddin...

I would probably get a 91 esprit for under 20K. Then, after it breaks, I will sell it and get a 94 vette.

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

Originally posted by BoostedMR2:
Hey Andrie,

I actually met you at the Basch Boost day in Daly City. I recall your spectacular entrance (bottoming the car out as you pulled up). I’ve driven Thunderhill three times so far -- each time with Bay Area Club Z. However, I've only driven it once since the motor swap.

I'd love to join you guys on November 24th if the price is right. Are you guys planning on running the full track? I really dig the back half.

Anyway, I can't say I have any lap times to compare against you guys. For one thing, I don't use a lap timer and Bay Area Club Z (the guys I have gone up with in the past) don't time laps at their events. More importantly, I know for a fact that you are a far better driver than I. Maybe I'll just let you try my car out instead and you can tell me what you think (I get to ride shotgun when you do -- I'd love to pick up some pointers on improving my line).

Thanks for the invite.

-- DavidV

Hey Dave, I remember you. I remember we talked briefly too in the parking lot next door. I took pics of your car as well.

We will be running the full 3 mile course. It is priced very well (check out our website), and I'm anticipating great crowd as well.

You ought to get a lap timer. This is the best bang for the buck tool to improve your driving skill. Of course, assuming you are fairly experience on the track.

I ran with ClubZ once, and it was fun. But I promise you our event will be as fun, if not more

I'm hesitating to ask to drive, but if you insist....

We will have our online registration up and running soon. Hope to see you there.

 

[huckster]

well, i think this thread must be proof positive that the old saying "when you laugh, the world laughs with you, and when you cry, you cry alone" is patently false.

in any event, i've thoroughly enjoyed this thread. let me know when it's time to sing kumbaya.