Would ya trade your NSX for a 348 TB ?

[Angelo08]

John@microsoft very well stated.
$1200 for an oil change
The most i have paid for an oil change on an fcar was $580 on a TR and $350 on the 355. Cant see why peopel complain about it being so damn expensive to change oil. Given teh cost of the filter and o-ring, the method is quite similar on all cars.
I would not trade in an NSX for a 348. That being said, nothing against the 348. This one is a beautiful example. The mileage is quite right. That being said from experience the more miles on a Fcar the more reliable it will be. Its when they sit that all the problems accumulate. However if those are the ebay Competition replica wheels i would stay away from them. They dont hold up for sh*t. Seen one come apart while on a run three years ago. Keep your NSX.

 

[pach]

If you like driving your car hard, NSX..

If you like cruising around, Ferrari.

That 348 would look much nicer with challenge wheels, something about those wheels doesnt seem right in diameter/offset.

 

[docjohn]

If you are you using cost as your major determinant then why ask?The 348 is awkward looking compared to 355,it is slow,the interior is held together with gnochi.:wink: You should do what you want.Why ask us about what seems to be an emotional personal trade purchase choice by you.If you have a split personality and the left brain is reading this now you will agree,trade up in $ to a 355:wink:

 

[Ski_Banker]

Personally, for me, NFW. Big time.

But since this isn't me, here's your solution:

Write a purchase contract with the F-car owner whereby you have the option to put his car back to him and repurchase yours in [3] months. Both agree to have all major maintenance items fixed (or identified) beforehand, and include in the agreement what happens if something serious blows up on his car under your watch.

Basically -- it's a 3 month test drive. Let us know how he reacts to that proposal.....

There's a reason he wants to dump his near identical looking Ferrari for an NSX, and it probably has little to do with "passion" and quite a bit to do with "headaches".

 

[drew]

Ultimately, you'll find that exotic car service is expensive because the owners can afford it to be and tend to be mechanically unsavory, not because it necessarily has to be more-so than anything else.

No, the oil changes are $1260 out in Los Angeles too, at least for a F360. Of course, there was a hundred or so dollars of add-on's, such as $7.50 for topping off the windshield wiper fluid (not like it ever got used, whatever).

This is the situation: If you perform scheduled service at a non-authorized shop, then your Ferrari is BLACKBALLED FOREVER. That means your F car cannot be accepted at any Ferrari dealership for trade-in or consignment.

Ferrari calls for the oil change every 3k miles or 6 mos. So you can most definitely expect to pay $2500 a year just for oil changes.

I suspect this 348 is already "soiled" so you can change the oil at Jiffy Lube and nobody will care.

I'd say to Greg Z: go ahead and buy the 348, it looks very well taken care of. At some point you will decide how valuable your time and money is....it will be a very fun two weeks though. (I suspect the reason is why your friend wants your NSX: Time > $.)

 

[sptrader]

As a current 308qv owner AND a recent 92' NSX owner, I can say they are very different cars and it depends what you are after in a car. Ferraris have a mistique that really should be experienced by every car enthusiast at some time in their life. The PO of my 308qv bought a 348 and had to tear the tranny apart during the 1st month of ownership. The 348 is known in the Ferrari community as being problem prone, esp with the tranny. When running properly, the 348 is a great car. A PPI by a Ferrari Specialist is a must, as well as a sizeable reserve for unexpected repairs. Things like oil changes are no different than any other car except they require much more oil. My 308qv holds 9 quarts. I do ALL of my own maintenance EXCEPT for the major service on my Ferrari, so ownership has been very cheap($700 for 2 years). Timing belt service on a 348 is an "Engine Out" proposition(expensive). If you love to work on cars, then it may be worth it, if you have to take it to a dealer for every little thing that goes wrong you'll need VERY deep pockets.
348's run $45-$50k, so it sounds like a pretty good deal BUT 348 maintenance is MUCH higher than on an NSX and has to be budgeted for.
NSX's have Honda reliability, great performance and styling but will never have that Ferrari mistique.
I have to go now, it's time to change my Ferrari's $200 thermostat.(no kidding-$200)

 

[MashimaroNSX]

that's hard to believe

a ex-local NSXer had a 360 modena

ferrari tech's from DC drive 3.5 hours to go to his house and change his oil for around $400 I heard

Ferrari of Long Island does this whole oil change package deal, besides the oil change they top all fluids, inspect tire pressure, brake pad wear, and if I remember right they will also replace seals and gaskets. What a deal!:biggrin:

 

[hofffam]

I just don't like the 348 that much. The 355 is a different story but we know that's not the offer being considered.

If the goal is just to get a f-car in your lifetime of car experiences I wouldn't do it for a relatively nothing special 348.

Maybe instead keep the NSX and find a 308 as an additional car.....

 

[Synthesis]

i'm sorry - if you're paying 1200 bucks for an oil change, then you're PAYING TOO MUCH. i don't care how much money you throw around.... you (probably) don't make 1200 bucks an hour. (esp if you have an older ferrari.) that's a lot of money.

if you like cars enough to buy a ferrari, learn how to change your friggen oil. it can't be THAT complicated. buy some tools with your rich ass and spend an hour under there the first time to figure it out, and do it yourself from then on. shiit. (ESP if your car is out of warranty. i'm sure ferrari rips you off by saying an authorized ferrari place has to do all the maintenance while you still have the warranty, which I found out is 2year/unlimited miles)

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

No, the oil changes are $1260 out in Los Angeles too, at least for a F360. Of course, there was a hundred or so dollars of add-on's, such as $7.50 for topping off the windshield wiper fluid (not like it ever got used, whatever).

I said it was ridiculous, not that it wasn't plausible. I have no doubt they top off the headlight fluid in Paris's Bentley GT and do paperwork on a loaner car for Daniel Sadek while he is in too.

It's all about impressing the Paparazzi, looking good on the cover of Starz, and hey if you happen to line the pockets of some Beverly Hills dealer on service then it is whatever it takes.

Let's be candid here. Just because some businesses survive and make their bread and butter up-selling auto service to high rollers and celebs... doesn't mean the service otherwise legitimately costs that amount or reflects reality.

It simply means the customer is probably an idiot, or otherwise has so much money he no longer recognizes the value of it - and the business has no morale qualms about billing out whatever they can get out of the customer. Who here can't point to stories of ridiculous mark-up? There is a VIP sucker born everyday.

That said, sure LA and NYC would be the place to find those four digit oil changes and five digit dresses at boutiques.

I suppose there is no equally gratifying substitute in life for throwing money away needlessly simply to make yourself feel richer. LOL. :biggrin:

This is the situation: If you perform scheduled service at a non-authorized shop, then your Ferrari is BLACKBALLED FOREVER. That means your F car cannot be accepted at any Ferrari dealership for trade-in or consignment.

Ferrari calls for the oil change every 3k miles or 6 mos. So you can most definitely expect to pay $2500 a year just for oil changes.

I suspect this 348 is already "soiled" so you can change the oil at Jiffy Lube and nobody will care.

Here's my take.

Ferrari has a 24 month warranty unlimited mile warranty because they want you to drive them.

If your big concern in life is voiding it with an oil change outside of dealer channels or if your salesman will take your car back on consignment, then IMO it might be a good time to re-evaluate ones priorities.

I've shook the hand at the track of several Ferrari owners (many of whom are highly intelligent and successful enterprise business owners) over the years. Many could probably afford to pull anything they wanted out of the back of a truck/trailer. All actively drive, track, or even race them - some in challenge trim. All retain independent motor sports shops to service their fleet.

Tell them that above line, and you'll be forever checking the idiot box.

 

[PoohBEAR]

do it ...trade it and have fun. You have too many cars already...and you can afford the oil change I say, do it!!!!

 

[drew]

If your big concern in life is voiding it with an oil change outside of dealer channels or if your salesman will take your car back on consignment, then IMO it might be a good time to re-evaluate ones priorities.

It is not *about* the warranty, you can do the oil changes at Jiffy Lube or even yourself and the warranty must be honored. There is no doubt about that.

However, if you have a $1.2M Enzo, it will be worth quite a bit less once you get a scheduled oil change outside of the dealer network. The savings of a $1200 oil change may cost you $200K on resale/trade-in...the math isn't hard.

People will most definitely pay more, a lot more, for a car coming from lets say from Beverly Hills Ferrari (where the Prince of Dubai has his F360 flown in and serviced) than Independent Ferrari of [City], even if it is the identical car.

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

However, if you have a $1.2M Enzo, it will be worth quite a bit less once you get a scheduled oil change outside of the dealer network. The savings of a $1200 oil change may cost you $200K on resale/trade-in...the math isn't hard.

My data point is that neither of the two Enzo owners I've met could probably care less what the resale on their car is. For starters, just to get on the list to buy one means that they are sitting on a pretty posh collection of cars to begin with. Most ordered them well in advance.

Two, the only math that matters in most all of these cases is: "I want it so I'll be by to pick it up".

While obviously I have no way to know what every owner thinks about Ferrari authorized service, from what little I've seen so far I feel pretty confident that the last thing on their mind is losing money on re-sale or voiding factory warranties. To the contrary, the best I can tell on the high end it is service first, and if their local dealer can't deliver or is treating them unfairly they absolutely and most certainly will take it somewhere else- in network or not.

Across the wider segment... being as most quickly fall out of warranty anyway; it seems in no way uncommon to see 355's, 360's and even 430's tucked in for service at any number of specialty motorsports shops- really no different than with an NSX, Lotus, etc...

Yes, you can always point to an exception. There are probably die hard collectors that play that game. What else is there to say but every enthusiast communitity has its share of collector weenies. Chances are if it has more than a few grand on it or its a grey market car they won't want it anyway. What else is there to say- these types do not represent the majority of owners, so just let them be.

 

[Ski_Banker]

My data point is that neither of the two Enzo owners I've met could probably care less what the resale on their car is. For starters, just to get on the list to buy one means that they are sitting on a pretty posh collection of cars to begin with. Most ordered them well in advance.

Two, the only math that matters in most all of these cases is: "I want it so I'll be by to pick it up".

While obviously I have no way to know what every owner thinks about Ferrari authorized service, from what little I've seen so far I feel pretty confident that the last thing on their mind is losing money on re-sale or voiding factory warranties. To the contrary, the best I can tell on the high end it is service first, and if their local dealer can't deliver or is treating them unfairly they absolutely and most certainly will take it somewhere else- in network or not.

Across the wider segment... being as most quickly fall out of warranty anyway; it seems in no way uncommon to see 355's, 360's and even 430's tucked in for service at any number of specialty motorsports shops- really no different than with an NSX, Lotus, etc...

Yes, you can always point to an exception. There are probably die hard collectors that play that game. What else is there to say but every enthusiast communitity has its share of collector weenies. Chances are if it has more than a few grand on it or its a grey market car they won't want it anyway. What else is there to say- these types do not represent the majority of owners, so just let them be.

John has it so so right.

 

[flaminio]

If you're only comparing dollars to dollars, pick whichever car has the higher market value.

IMHO, in terms of car greatness:

348 < NSX
355 = NSX
360 > NSX

So to answer your question: No way. I wouldn't even do it for a 355.

A straight up trade for a 360, however, would be tough to resist...

 

[steveny]

No, the oil changes are $1260 out in Los Angeles too, at least for a F360. Of course, there was a hundred or so dollars of add-on's, such as $7.50 for topping off the windshield wiper fluid (not like it ever got used, whatever).

This is the situation: If you perform scheduled service at a non-authorized shop, then your Ferrari is BLACKBALLED FOREVER. That means your F car cannot be accepted at any Ferrari dealership for trade-in or consignment.

Ferrari calls for the oil change every 3k miles or 6 mos. So you can most definitely expect to pay $2500 a year just for oil changes.

I suspect this 348 is already "soiled" so you can change the oil at Jiffy Lube and nobody will care.

I'd say to Greg Z: go ahead and buy the 348, it looks very well taken care of. At some point you will decide how valuable your time and money is....it will be a very fun two weeks though. (I suspect the reason is why your friend wants your NSX: Time > $.)

That's just nuts! I just spoke to Brian Crall the Ferrari Mechanic who performed the maintenance on the 360 I just purchased. He told me to change the oil on my 360 every 10k miles or once per year and it is only a few hundred dollars to do it.
Where are you guys getting this info from. Can someone post some receipts to back up the claims?

 

[goldNSX]

Selling the NSX is one thing, buying a Ferrari instead another. Even if I have to go through some repairs this year I always find myself being spoiled by the reliability of the 'Japanese Ferrari' as nothing happened in the past 6 years. Hearing stories about what things and and at what costs can happen to a Ferrari the trade would never be an 'all-else-the-same'-scenario.

IMO if some things don't happen people forget that they CAN happen (in terms of reliability). :wink:

 

[Ski_Banker]

Lets not forget -- that black Ferrari POS looks like KIT from Knight Rider. Bridge & Tunnel anyone?

 

[dlynes]

Tough call Greg only you can make....
If you've grown tired of your NSX and want something different, then why not. Been there and done that several times in my life.
Having owned 3 Ferrari's over the years, they are wonderful cars, but they can be finicky and very costly for maintenance, never mind is something major breaks.
I owned a 246 Dino, a 308 GTB and then finally a 512TR. No doubt after owning the 512 if I ever got another Ferrari, it would have to be a 12. The 8's are rather slow all things considerd.
Supercharge or Turbo your NSX and the only 348's you'll see is in your rear view mirror.
Would I give up my NSX for a 348, not a chance.
Best of luck in whatever you decide.

Isnt a stock 348 and stock nsx close performance wise?

 

[heySkippy]

Isnt a stock 348 and stock nsx close performance wise?

Conventional wisdom around here will have the NSX beating the 348 handily.

If someone wants to let me drive their 348 so I can weigh in with an informed opinion, just let me know. I'd be delighted!

 

[tosugrad]

Maintenance will KILL you.

I just spent the last month researching 355s. I walked away deciding the maintenance was too much to handle. You PRAY nothing goes wrong.

The 348 is even worse. Don't look at the $50k purchase price. Look at the Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) over 1, 3, 5 years and you will be out big bucks.

 

[steveny]

Maintenance will KILL you.

I just spent the last month researching 355s. I walked away deciding the maintenance was too much to handle. You PRAY nothing goes wrong.

The 348 is even worse. Don't look at the $50k purchase price. Look at the Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) over 1, 3, 5 years and you will be out big bucks.

precisely why I went with the 360. Well that and the 348-355 interior is straight out of the 80's. another reason why the NSX is so great, the interior is still pretty much up to date IMO.

 

[ImolaOrange03]

I found this posting on the BMW forums about someone wanting to trade for a new M3. You should read this as to why. The costs of the maintainance and repairs.....

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-16424.html

 

[steveny]

I found this posting on the BMW forums about someone wanting to trade for a new M3. You should read this as to why. The costs of the maintainance and repairs.....

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-16424.html

Wrong information again. The engine does not need to come out of the 360 for the belts to be changed and it is closer to 15k miles when it needs to be done. Furthermore the service for belts, tensioners, etc...is less than 5k.

As for the insurance, mine will be $500 every 6 months which is ~$100 less than the SL55 is.

 

[WASIAN]

NO, i looked at one to buy and i would not look to buy one again. . .NSX has cheaper and more common parts. The 348 on the other hand has darn expensive parts and the performance is not the best either. U could buy it fot the name I guess. . . .