Where are all the Production deliveries ??

[chrisn]

My understanding was that all dealers who agreed to get certified to sell the NSX would get one initial "coverage car" to be built roughly in a sequence determined by their size (biggest first). I had always assumed that dealers could use this "slot" as they chose: buy for owner of dealership, order on spec or commit to sell it to an end-customer (at MSRP or whatever was agreed).

As long as the production/delivery schedule is insensitive to whether car is to be sold on spec or at MSRP to an end customer, I feel like I can't complain and am not bothered at all by dealers trying to capture a "market premium" on their slot. At some level, I prefer to maximize the number of NSX-qualified dealers and service centers out there. If a dealership "on the fence" about the NSX convinces himself to go for it on the logic that he can get an extra $10/20/50K of pure profit out of his first unit, I say good for him! More locations for me to get my car serviced.

Now, on the other hand, if "spec" cars are jumping the production queue, then that would be a *REAL* scandal that should be exposed. Acura and their dealers have the right to do what they want, but should not mislead customers.

 

[JD Cross]

My understanding was that all dealers who agreed to get certified to sell the NSX would get one initial "coverage car" to be built roughly in a sequence determined by their size (biggest first). I had always assumed that dealers could use this "slot" as they chose: buy for owner of dealership, order on spec or commit to sell it to an end-customer (at MSRP or whatever was agreed). Now, on the other hand, if "spec" cars are jumping the production queue, then that would be a *REAL* scandal that should be exposed. Acura and their dealers have the right to do what they want, but should not mislead customers.

My understanding of the NSX sales program was each car made was to be "sold" to someone.
Dealers were given priority over direct sales.
This was so dealers would have a car for showrooms, drive around to cars and coffee etc. etc.
It was understood that the dealers might keep the car for themselves or resell the car if an opportunity might arise.
The whole purpose of having all cars "sold" before shipment was to avoid having unsold inventory sitting at a dealership.
Acura was trying to maintain exclusivity with no unsolds and a long waitlist.

However the execution of the plan went awry almost immediately.
Acura didn't assess the power of social media and internet marketing
A number of Acura dealers with a new NSX immediately put them on Cars.com etc. thinking they would pick up a tidy sum on a scarce car.
Unfortunately every Acura dealer with an unsold car did the same thing.
Now you've got a dozen or more NSX's unsold advertised nationally at various premiums.
And of course eBay where you've got 2 new NSX's, one used NSX and someone selling a place in the queue.
All of this creates an aura of plenty of NSX's available, and few are sold at premiums.

Meantime all the direct buyers, like Gadgetman watch all this unfold while they await delivery.
His comments today are likely typical of most with orders awaiting delivery.

 

[G.Irish]

However the execution of the plan went awry almost immediately.
Acura didn't assess the power of social media and internet marketing
A number of Acura dealers with a new NSX immediately put them on Cars.com etc. thinking they would pick up a tidy sum on a scarce car.
Unfortunately every Acura dealer with an unsold car did the same thing.
Now you've got a dozen or more NSX's unsold advertised nationally at various premiums.
And of course eBay where you've got 2 new NSX's, one used NSX and someone selling a place in the queue.
All of this creates an aura of plenty of NSX's available, and few are sold at premiums.

Meantime all the direct buyers, like Gadgetman watch all this unfold while they await delivery.
His comments today are likely typical of most with orders awaiting delivery.

Honestly I don't think the situation is that bad. Even now there are 8 458 Speciales and 13 911 GT3RS's listed on eBay and both are very exclusive models for manufacturers with large (relatively) and dedicated followings. The fact that there are about a dozen NSX's on sale from dealers isn't that big of a deal. There have been more than twice as many 570S's for sale at dealerships with several dealerships with 5 cars on the lot. Granted, Mclaren is looking to move more 570's but point is that the NSX isn't in bad shape as of yet.

Some dealers will hunt for their markups, some might get them, but it's not going to destroy the resale value to have 12 of these cars on sale nationwide.

 

[JD Cross]

Honestly I don't think the situation is that bad. Even now there are 8 458 Speciales and 13 911 GT3RS's listed on eBay and both are very exclusive models for manufacturers with large (relatively) and dedicated followings. The fact that there are about a dozen NSX's on sale from dealers isn't that big of a deal. There have been more than twice as many 570S's for sale at dealerships with several dealerships with 5 cars on the lot. Granted, Mclaren is looking to move more 570's but point is that the NSX isn't in bad shape as of yet.
Some dealers will hunt for their markups, some might get them, but it's not going to destroy the resale value to have 12 of these cars on sale nationwide.

I can see your point about the numbers of unsold NSX's not being large.
However you're ignoring the fact that there are customers who put down deposits years ago and have no car.

Are there 458 Speciale and 911 GT3RS customers waiting on factory delivery?
Or are these cars being offered after all customers sales have been shipped?

 

[Bricks and Bio]

Score 1 for Chicagoland

McGrath of Westmont got a red one, serial # 046

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/677561254/overview/

I think a side trip after work early next week is in order

 

[G.Irish]

I can see your point about the numbers of unsold NSX's not being large.
However you're ignoring the fact that there are customers who put down deposits years ago and have no car.

Are there 458 Speciale and 911 GT3RS customers waiting on factory delivery?
Or are these cars being offered after all customers sales have been shipped?

The fact that some people ordered a car and haven't gotten theirs before the dealership got their coverage unit is definitely disappointing. I can see why Acura did it but it's a bit aggravating for someone who supported the brand by pre-ordering.

With Ferrari and the Speciale they're done making them now (so I hear), but when they were still getting made there were a few stories of people getting jerked around on their allocations. Some people were told they needed to load up their car with options, otherwise they'd get bumped in favor of someone who would order more bling on their car. Other people were exhorted to buy another F car like a FF to secure their Speciale. Nothing new from Ferrari really, and it's the kind of thing that varies from dealership to dealership.

With the 991.1 GT3RS, Porsche is still making them and going down their list of buyers, with some dealerships charging markups. There are some dealerships out there purchasing cars from owners and other dealerships to mark them up because the demand is so high. Haven't heard of any complaints about getting bumped from an allocation really. Just people bitching about not having a chance at a 911R, which 918 VIP's had first dibs on.

With the Speciale and RS there's a lot of flipping and stuff going on with those cars so the fact there are some on sale is partly a reflection of that. Acura dealers are hoping to cash in on mark ups too but I doubt they're going to get those big markups unless the NSX dominates in comparos or something.

 

[JD Cross]

The fact that some people ordered a car and haven't gotten theirs before the dealership got their coverage unit is definitely disappointing. I can see why Acura did it but it's a bit aggravating for someone who supported the brand by pre-ordering.

With Ferrari and the Speciale they're done making them now (so I hear), but when they were still getting made there were a few stories of people getting jerked around on their allocations. Some people were told they needed to load up their car with options, otherwise they'd get bumped in favor of someone who would order more bling on their car. Other people were exhorted to buy another F car like a FF to secure their Speciale. Nothing new from Ferrari really, and it's the kind of thing that varies from dealership to dealership.

With the 991.1 GT3RS, Porsche is still making them and going down their list of buyers, with some dealerships charging markups. There are some dealerships out there purchasing cars from owners and other dealerships to mark them up because the demand is so high. Haven't heard of any complaints about getting bumped from an allocation really. Just people bitching about not having a chance at a 911R, which 918 VIP's had first dibs on.
With the Speciale and RS there's a lot of flipping and stuff going on with those cars so the fact there are some on sale is partly a reflection of that. Acura dealers are hoping to cash in on mark ups too but I doubt they're going to get those big markups unless the NSX dominates in comparos or something.

I get that special editions from Ferrari, Porsche, and others are in heavy demand at launch and through production runs.
And I'm sure there are anomalies in how sales are handled with favoritism and so on.
And perhaps one day special edition NSX's will join that group.

I see quite a difference between special edition Ferraris and Porsches and a brand new NSX which is an unknown quantity.
The Ferraris/Porsches are variations on a theme
The base car is a known quantity and buyers are after the fastest/most special/rare edition of the base car.

NSX buyers on the other hand are taking quite a risk putting down a deposit years in advance and taking delivery of what may not be what they hoped for.
The new NSX buyer is a stakeholder in the new NSX venture and both Honda and the new NSX buyer have a lot at stake here.
If the car's value doesn't hold both Honda and the new NSX owner both take the hit financially.
The least Honda could do is respect those who have taken the risk and ship them a car.
Then if the NSX dealers want to play around flipping cars for short term gain at least the loyal buyer has a car.

On eBay today there's a new NSX that was "sold" to a dealer, then "sold" to someone else and has ended up with a used car dealer.
Now it's being offered as a used car on eBay while buyers await deliveries.

 

[Bricks and Bio]

I am not bitter because I understand that Acura is weak (incompetent) on the marketing side.

The rep has told me that they are not happy about what some of the dealers are up to but the way they wrote the program, the dealers have a loophole that allows them to order the car themselves.

The long period of time Acura is taking to get all the coverage units built plays into the dealers game as they can sit on the first car a long time before they need it to be sold, which will allow them to order the first regular allocation car.

My real hope at this point is that they are willing to increase their output towards the target of 8 cars per day so I can have my car before I need the snow tires (at least we learned this week that the Y spoke wheels are actually pretty low cost).

- - - Updated - - -

A 130R white car showed up in Fort Worth

Note the low serial # 034. Again this points to the bonkers lack of a system regarding moving the cars from the warehouse to the dealerships.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/677575085/overview/

58 pics to enjoy

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-...mt=[ACURA[NSX[]][]]&listingId=436859793&Log=0

 

[nosirrahx]

Cant wait to see where my original #22 shows up

 

[Bricks and Bio]

A poster called TLuder on NSXfoums, a guy with a car on order said that serial #s 061 and 062 were at Monterey car week and folks (on a special list) got test drives. Two additional cars (unknown if these were prototypes or production units) were on display, and the GT3.

 

[RSO 34]

A poster called TLuder on NSXfoums, a guy with a car on order said that serial #s 061 and 062 were at Monterey car week and folks (on a special list) got test drives. Two additional cars (unknown if these were prototypes or production units) were on display, and the GT3.

Yes they were at Quail and some members of the NSXCA were guests of Acura and were able to test drive them.

 

[Bricks and Bio]

Perfect place to do test drives.

Kind of funny that the NSX specialist wasn't informed.

I asked twice about it and he had nothing.

 

[chrisn]

Yes they were at Quail and some members of the NSXCA were guests of Acura and were able to test drive them.

I hope they publicly post their impressions.

 

[RSO 34]

NSXCA with Dario Franchitti at Quail

 

[Bricks and Bio]

Some one needs to reach out to this Mary Lee person.

She provided a teaser on NSXCA and that they each got 20 minutes on the road with the car.

 

[RSO 34]

Some one needs to reach out to this Mary Lee person.

She provided a teaser on NSXCA and that they each got 20 minutes on the road with the car.

May Lee aka "Ms Purple" is our VP for the NSXCA

 

[Bricks and Bio]

I know that, this was you opportunity to say, I will chase her down

 

[RSO 34]

I know that, this was you opportunity to say, I will chase her down

We will be publishing an article about the event in our magazine.

 

[Gadgetman]

Gadgetman,

My apologies if my posting of available cars is leading to anguish.

I am just keeping tabs on production and letting folks see what the dealers are up to

I went into this expecting the dealers to attempt to collect some monopoly rent on these cars.

I will say that Acura is keeping tabs on which dealerships are behaving in this way but I doubt they will really do anything. Like I have said before, Acura is married to these folks. We can go to another brand.

On the brand topic, I completely agree that Acura is bungling big time. When I spoke to the NSX rep yesterday, I asked him to watch the yahoo finance video interview of the Bentley rep at Monterey as an example of what they should be doing to support the marketplace.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-bentley-focus-past-helps-000000589.html

B&B
No issue on anguish as you didn't create any.
It is something I think we all expected some dealers might do if they could get away with it.
With so many anxious buyers, including myself, I just figured I'd vent a little and move on.
I'd like to think there are some corporate ACURA reps (with right credentials) looking around and watching public things this forum. And if so I'd hope might pass our concerns on through the right channels.

- - - Updated - - -

I can see your point about the numbers of unsold NSX's not being large.
However you're ignoring the fact that there are customers who put down deposits years ago and have no car.

Are there 458 Speciale and 911 GT3RS customers waiting on factory delivery?
Or are these cars being offered after all customers sales have been shipped?

JD
I totally agree with your point related to early deposits.

Acura could have done a little research and made early "routine" deliveries... (post Rick's #001 , Jay and Jerry etc) to those who did early deposits based on buyer faith. Somewhat an Proper and Ethical repayment/compensation for those who took a risk and put their money and commitment to buy based only on "Blind" Faith of what would be built? Instead, they insulted us (in many cases) and said thanks for your money and loyalty, BUT now just go to the rear of the bus and act like a mushroom.

 

[chrisn]

We will be publishing an article about the event in our magazine.

[More softballs for you]

1. What is "NSXCA?"
2. How does one subscribe to your magazine?

- - - Updated - - -

Instead, they insulted us (in many cases) and said thanks for your money and loyalty, BUT now just go to the rear of the bus and act like a mushroom.

Is there any evidence for this? I mean, is there evidence that "coverage cars" are being produced and delivered in a sequence determined other than the original ranking of dealers by sales volume? Are you claiming that the coverage car for the 70th biggest dealer (or whatever) will be delivered sooner or later depending on the mix of "straight to end customer" versus "held by dealer for sale to highest bidder" cars amongst cars #1 through #69 ?

I have heard no evidence of that.

Perhaps you are making the more nuanced claim that if coverage cars were *REQUIRED* to be sold straight through to end-customers at MRSP (prob illegal to require this in US, BTW) that this would speed delivery to "real customers?" To believe this, you'd have to assume that end customers are geographically indifferent as to the location of the dealer selling them the car and had perfect information on the sequence of allocations to all dealers.

From my perspective: I am #1 at my local dealer. He'll get the car when he gets it. Why should I care who got the cars delivered before mine?

I will concede that a car in a showroom is a car NOT in someone's garage-- but who cares? The slot was allocated in an agreed sequence, and I am behind that slot in the agreed sequence. Who's to say to you or I don't buy our cars and then flip them on Ebay? Not my intention, but would be my right--- and I haven't hurt anyone (other than the manufacturer's ability to tightly control the aftermarket to *artificially* boost resale value in order to overcharge for new cars-- I'm looking at you, Ferrari).

 

[JD Cross]

[More softballs for you]
1. What is "NSXCA?"
2. How does one subscribe to your magazine?

Chris
The NSXCA is the NSX Club of America.
https://nsxca.org/
Every year the Club hosts NSXPO a gathering of as many as 200 or more owners for a gala weekend and driving school.
With membership comes our quarterly magazine which RSO 34 referred to.
I've belonged for years.
Good idea to join.

Jim

 

[powdbyrice]

Perfect place to do test drives.

Kind of funny that the NSX specialist wasn't informed.

I asked twice about it and he had nothing.

If they read their intranet...

but i suspect it wasn't widely broadcasted as it was invite only. i tried to get invites for customers who are legitimately interested in buying, but was unsuccessful. i know 2 people who went. Ms purple as mentioned above, and 1 other friend.

 

[JD Cross]

If they read their intranet...but i suspect it wasn't widely broadcasted as it was invite only. i tried to get invites for customers who are legitimately interested in buying, but was unsuccessful. i know 2 people who went. Ms purple as mentioned above, and 1 other friend.

I think Chris Willson from Science of Speed was the other person who had a drive.

 

[Gadgetman]

[More softballs for you]

1. What is "NSXCA?"
2. How does one subscribe to your magazine?

- - - Updated - - -



Is there any evidence for this? I mean, is there evidence that "coverage cars" are being produced and delivered in a sequence determined other than the original ranking of dealers by sales volume? Are you claiming that the coverage car for the 70th biggest dealer (or whatever) will be delivered sooner or later depending on the mix of "straight to end customer" versus "held by dealer for sale to highest bidder" cars amongst cars #1 through #69 ?

I have heard no evidence of that.

Perhaps you are making the more nuanced claim that if coverage cars were *REQUIRED* to be sold straight through to end-customers at MRSP (prob illegal to require this in US, BTW) that this would speed delivery to "real customers?" To believe this, you'd have to assume that end customers are geographically indifferent as to the location of the dealer selling them the car and had perfect information on the sequence of allocations to all dealers.

From my perspective: I am #1 at my local dealer. He'll get the car when he gets it. Why should I care who got the cars delivered before mine?

I will concede that a car in a showroom is a car NOT in someone's garage-- but who cares? The slot was allocated in an agreed sequence, and I am behind that slot in the agreed sequence. Who's to say to you or I don't buy our cars and then flip them on Ebay? Not my intention, but would be my right--- and I haven't hurt anyone (other than the manufacturer's ability to tightly control the aftermarket to *artificially* boost resale value in order to overcharge for new cars-- I'm looking at you, Ferrari).

I think you missed my point which was...
Acura could have looked into which dealers had loyal Acura buyers who placed deposit very early ( 3 yrs early in my case) and considered rewarding them for their faith for good PR before rewarding dealers based on sales volume or in concert with that. I don't think there were a lot of very early adopters doing such. But could be wrong.

 

[chrisn]

Ok Gotcha. I agree with the spirit of what you are saying, but very difficult to implement.

I've been trying to put a deposit down for years, but no one would take it. In California, deposits are fully refundable by state law, so it just ends up being a paperwork hassle for dealer. From Acura's perspective, nobody put a deposit down until they started accepting orders (and perhaps not even then--- AFAIK, the deposit is held by the dealer), the first batch of which weren't locked until March 2016. I got my dealer's #1 slot in part because I had bought two MDX's from him.

And there's the problem of incentive alignment. Acura's "customers" are it's dealers. It is in Acura's best interest to incentivize SALE VOLUME to DEALERS. Brand loyalty of end-customers is related to this, but one step removed. With the possible exception of Ferrari, I am pretty sure allocations of "hot" cars are always done by dealer sales volume.

Here's an idea: for the "allocations" (which don't start until after the one-per-dealer "coverage cars") what if Acura gave an "extra" allocation to any dealer selling to a customer who was the original (and current) owner of a prior NSX (provided that the new NSX is registered in that person's name). That might be a fun way to reward "super fans" and get some good PR. That way, any qualified superfan could approach any NSX-certified dealer and basically jump the line (without reducing the number of cars that dealer gets allocated). There can't be too many people in that bucket (bought and never sold a Gen 1 NSX and want to buy a Gen 2). If there are, maybe they have to cap at first 100 or something.