Where are all the Production deliveries ??
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Honestly, if it were me I would leave the current specs where they are and lower the price down to $110 base MSRP and then ramp up options from there to get to a $180 price. The problem they have now with watering down the specs to water down the price is the badge on the front of the car. They aren't in an Apples to Apples game, Audi and Benz have been convincing the market for the past 20 years that they are superior brands and it works. Trying to step up your materials is going to take a while - the first step to that will likely be a return of the Acura Legend with a full V8 and an 85,000 MSRP. Start shedding their budget vehicles like the ILX (and fire the putz who proposed it), and bring in a Integra successor priced at $50k. Then you have some cross platform materials you can work with to expand out your options range.
Yep - an S2000 would do wonders for their lineup. I would also like to see the Prelude model return, but I am admittedly biased there. It also touches on the problems of the Acura/Honda blend. Do they make the S2000 a Honda again? That would work well if they are going to style it off the popular Civic Type R and not mark it as a "luxury" vehicle. Concepts though are making it look more like a baby NSX and I am sure they will be tempted to throw in hybrid handling technology which means it would fit in to the Acura line up, but that would require an $60-80k price tag which will likely be a big market failure.
The company needs to figure out how to properly divorce the two companies and that is an albatross that remains around their neck for all of their branding & imaging. They have tried to have their cake and eat it too and that simply hasn't worked out well for them. Lexus has entirely seperated from Toyota and Infinity has done the same, but Honda stubborness refuses to make a clean break and that seems to be a real problem.
The company needs to figure out how to properly divorce the two companies and that is an albatross that remains around their neck for all of their branding & imaging. They have tried to have their cake and eat it too and that simply hasn't worked out well for them. Lexus has entirely seperated from Toyota and Infinity has done the same, but Honda stubborness refuses to make a clean break and that seems to be a real problem.
[VOICE=Jeremy Clarkson] YEEEEEEEEEEEEESSS.[/VOICE]
Ye gods, yes. That needs to happen. I would consider buying one.
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Great analyses Blue M
I can't really see them dropping the base price as the program is already a money loser
For contrast, Porsche just has so many versions and customers supporting the brand
Check out this GT2-RS I saw on the way to pick up my car after it's oil change today, yellow with huge black stripes
I can't really see them dropping the base price as the program is already a money loser
For contrast, Porsche just has so many versions and customers supporting the brand
Check out this GT2-RS I saw on the way to pick up my car after it's oil change today, yellow with huge black stripes
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Competition is stiff. Comparing a drive in a 570gt and a Nsx, the performance “seems”the same until the 570 spools up. But the interior and styling in the Mc wins hands down.
But the McLaren 570 GT is $225-250K new....... That's $80-100K more than I paid for my NSX. I personally wouldn't pay the difference for such a small difference in performance.....
Just like the nsx, people are not paying msrp for the 570 either. The difference is, you can drive your 570 into the dealer, have them upgrade the exhaust, do an engine tune, leave with 700 hp, and still retain your warranty. I’d choose the Mac.
To each his own, no problem, I'm sure the performance is great, but the McLarens are still a bit out of my financial reach, and they really don't do much for me. I'd have a tough time buying an English car per horror stories about reliability. And yes, competition is stiff. The NSX is good for me, and I like having something different. I'm not going to knock any other cars or the folks who own/love them. It's amazing how many great cars are out there.......
I agree. Not knocking anyone here for buying one. I just hope for the sake of the car, Honda puts on the gloves and fights.:biggrin:
It's still all about price point...... I don't consider the car a failure, and I think Honda felt they built a great, albeit unique, supercar.
My first knowledge of the car was Nov 4th, 2017. I was immediately drawn to the car at a local car show, and my first impression was that this was a $100-125K car...... I was in the market for something new and different and I thought that if priced at that point I could sell a couple of cars out of my classic collection and buy one...... Well, I go home and research it and Damn, $200K????? NO WAY......
I think that there is a perception that a Japanese supercar should be cheap....... even if you provide Ferrari "like" performance, it will not command Ferrari prices.... I think Honda thought they could build that car and command those prices. But the market said NO....... It has been said that Honda used the F458 as their benchmark for the NSX, and I think that they equaled or exceeded that standard, but the problem is, the bar for supercar performance is ever rising, and by the time they brought the NSX to market, from a performance point of view it was already obsolete, and so was the 458....... Perhaps if they had brought the car to market 4-5 years earlier, it might have made a bigger impact.
It comes down to perceived value. People seem to only want to pay half the price of a Ferrari (or equivalent) for a Japanese supercar, again regardless of performance. I don't think this perception will ever change. If they come out with some bored out chipped up 800HP car, do you think it would really make a difference in sales? It's funny that when I look at my NSX, I never really think of it as a Japanese car...... Definitely supercar looks, more McLaren than Japanese. I just see an exotic.
Anyway, I do believe that if Honda had rolled the car out with a $120-125K MSRP, their sales would most certainly have been different. No question that the car is different and not for the mainstream traditional supercar buyer, but if priced lower in the beginning it might have been a different story. At the end of 2017, Honda repriced the car with the $30K rebate and sales reached near 90 per month. When the backlog of cars was reduced and the rebate dropped off, sales dropped off to nothing. After negotiating $43K off sticker, I decided to pull the trigger and take a chance, for better or for worse. But I really am having a great time owning the car, regardless of all the negativity this car has received.
And I know that a lot of traditionalists have panned the car for the hybrid technology, but I think that this is what makes the car so uniquely unique. The technology employed in this car is amazing, and you just have to experience it to understand....... I'm keepin mine!
My first knowledge of the car was Nov 4th, 2017. I was immediately drawn to the car at a local car show, and my first impression was that this was a $100-125K car...... I was in the market for something new and different and I thought that if priced at that point I could sell a couple of cars out of my classic collection and buy one...... Well, I go home and research it and Damn, $200K????? NO WAY......
I think that there is a perception that a Japanese supercar should be cheap....... even if you provide Ferrari "like" performance, it will not command Ferrari prices.... I think Honda thought they could build that car and command those prices. But the market said NO....... It has been said that Honda used the F458 as their benchmark for the NSX, and I think that they equaled or exceeded that standard, but the problem is, the bar for supercar performance is ever rising, and by the time they brought the NSX to market, from a performance point of view it was already obsolete, and so was the 458....... Perhaps if they had brought the car to market 4-5 years earlier, it might have made a bigger impact.
It comes down to perceived value. People seem to only want to pay half the price of a Ferrari (or equivalent) for a Japanese supercar, again regardless of performance. I don't think this perception will ever change. If they come out with some bored out chipped up 800HP car, do you think it would really make a difference in sales? It's funny that when I look at my NSX, I never really think of it as a Japanese car...... Definitely supercar looks, more McLaren than Japanese. I just see an exotic.
Anyway, I do believe that if Honda had rolled the car out with a $120-125K MSRP, their sales would most certainly have been different. No question that the car is different and not for the mainstream traditional supercar buyer, but if priced lower in the beginning it might have been a different story. At the end of 2017, Honda repriced the car with the $30K rebate and sales reached near 90 per month. When the backlog of cars was reduced and the rebate dropped off, sales dropped off to nothing. After negotiating $43K off sticker, I decided to pull the trigger and take a chance, for better or for worse. But I really am having a great time owning the car, regardless of all the negativity this car has received.
And I know that a lot of traditionalists have panned the car for the hybrid technology, but I think that this is what makes the car so uniquely unique. The technology employed in this car is amazing, and you just have to experience it to understand....... I'm keepin mine!
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I look at it this way - lets say they spent 100 million to get the NSX project rolling with facilities, marketing, design costs and everything else. That is money already spent just to get the car from proposal to the road. That money isn't already coming back. Now it is just a matter of how much value you are going to get for that 100 million that you have already spent. You can take a conservative route and say "I'm not going to lose any more money, lets try to get as much back as we can". I see that as foolish though, that money is spent and you want to maximize the value you get for it. Acura has a brand problem and the NSX is supposed to be adding value by enhancing that brand. Unsold cars do nothing for that goal, so if you need to drop the price to move inventory, you drop the price. Your goal from the NSX isn't to make a few thousand per car, but rather it is to justify spending the 100 million in the first place. The difference in a MSRP of 110k vs 150k is 40k per car. If you are selling less than 200 cars/year (which is what they are on track to do), you are looking at a loss of 8 million/year which is nothing compared to how much they have lost building the factory, engineering the car, marketing, etc.
That's how I look at the problem at least.
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The NSX isn't going to solve the brand problem.
Better, more competitive vehicles across their line up is the main need.
The new RDX is a nice start.
I kind of doubt they will be successful in the sedan space, particularly where the RLX plays.
I work in big pharma/biotech and one of the popular words is precedent. I can't recall a car maker dropping a list price in a similar manner as proposed ($159K to $110-$120K). Honda is a conservative bunch so I don't see it happening here.
It is and is going to be a rare car on the street.
878, new Ferrari prices are like $300K these days. The NSX is an entry level super car with a much lower price point. Ferrari is using their brand equity to move pricing up, up, up.
Better, more competitive vehicles across their line up is the main need.
The new RDX is a nice start.
I kind of doubt they will be successful in the sedan space, particularly where the RLX plays.
I work in big pharma/biotech and one of the popular words is precedent. I can't recall a car maker dropping a list price in a similar manner as proposed ($159K to $110-$120K). Honda is a conservative bunch so I don't see it happening here.
It is and is going to be a rare car on the street.
878, new Ferrari prices are like $300K these days. The NSX is an entry level super car with a much lower price point. Ferrari is using their brand equity to move pricing up, up, up.
I get the idea that Honda/Acura has no idea what to do about the NSX "predicament"? Somebody posted annual sales for Honda or Acura and their profit was in the billions if I remember correctly? So a 100 million hit isn't such a big deal. But they have done a poor job of marketing the car in my opinion and failed to gain any significant recognition for their efforts in producing their halo car. I did see an Acura TV ad recently where there was a flash of an NSX. You'd think some TV ad time might help out?? And BTW, the car looks great flashing across the TV screen.....
Hard to know or even guess where it goes from here?
Hard to know or even guess where it goes from here?
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Interesting thoughts. But I wonder how much better the car will sell with additional incentives. My guess is that in late 2017 the $30K discount tipped the die hard fans over to purchase a vehicle instead of sitting on the sidelines window shopping. I believe that all those hard-core fans now have their NSX's and any additional sales will still be limited despite additional incentives (unless they are ridiculous incentives).
I agree that the NSX is an entry level supercar. I am an entry level supercar first time owner......
The $20-30k rebates were essentially a price reduction??? Sort of like pleading "No Contest"....... So MSRP becomes $126K (plus options). It's accounting magic. They show sales at retail, and bury the rebates in another column......
I still think it's a performance bargain, and if Honda gives up on it, then it will indeed be rare.......
And didn't the Gen 1 only sell 200 or less per year for most of it's life cycle??? Yet it was revered and considered this huge success. But if the Gen 2 NSX sells 200 per year it's a failure? Different world I guess......
The $20-30k rebates were essentially a price reduction??? Sort of like pleading "No Contest"....... So MSRP becomes $126K (plus options). It's accounting magic. They show sales at retail, and bury the rebates in another column......
I still think it's a performance bargain, and if Honda gives up on it, then it will indeed be rare.......
And didn't the Gen 1 only sell 200 or less per year for most of it's life cycle??? Yet it was revered and considered this huge success. But if the Gen 2 NSX sells 200 per year it's a failure? Different world I guess......
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Neigbor just bought a used 2017 570S 206 msrp for 154k (3600 miles)
Used NSX are 132-142k that are selling
for the small price difference used i'd take the 570.
when the lease returns come in on NSX in about 18 months and they are around 100k used
i'm in for a great used car
90% of mclaren performance and looks with better reliability
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But I'd guess a lot of those lease returns will have 30K miles on them??? Had I leased one with 10K miles per year, I damn sure would drive every allotted mile! But I'm sure that there will be some with lesser allotted miles. I also think a lot of dealers will be buying them back on lease return or on trade in, and will put them on the floor to resell at a profit. Dealers like leasing as it guarantees customers come back at lease end, and they will have the first crack at buying the lease returns.....
And if prices hold up a bit, many guys will buy their car out of lease.
And if prices hold up a bit, many guys will buy their car out of lease.
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fastaussie
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i'd say you're pretty spot on. i think Acura banked on poaching a lot of R8 and 911 owners, and that didn't materialise in the manner they'd hoped. and as nsx_2k just stated, there was already a small market of loyal Honda fans who wanted the car regardless of how it performed, but not at it's original price. and now that those guys have bought their cars (at significant discounts), there are very few left, hence the 5 or 6 sales per month...
is it really the tech in the car that traditionalists don't like? you hear nothing but praise for the Hypercars, and the technology is virtually identical. just different outputs and price tags for the most part. many people have likened the NSX to a mini 918 at 1/8th the price. i can't say i've ever heard anyone pan the LaFerrari, P1 or 918...
you reckon? that would be a hell of a drop off...
100% agree with this. A well selling NSX is *part* of the solution, but by no means the entire pie.
The RLX plays in a losing market - sedan sales are way down in that sector from my admittedly limited understanding. I believe that the more spacious sedans are simply being replaced with SUVs and mini-vans. Either need to go luxury/performance sedan or get out of that market space (leave it for Honda Accords).
Again, completely agree. I don't think Acura management has the balls to do this. Nothing they have done so far has indicated that they are high risk and willing to go all in on a change.
The sky is the limit for the brands that managed to win in the brand war. It is amazing how well these companies (Apple, Porsche, Ferrari) have bedazzled their consumers to drop any amount of money to have their products. Their numbers are enviable, selling around 1,000/year for their primary sports car.
I agree, mostly a brand issue..crowded space with better brand recognition of sports cars.also agree that smaller suv/sav have hurt sedan sales....the current crop of performance/luxury suv handle and perform better than many traditional sedans.I think the way baby boomers view personal transportation is very different from millennials/gen-x-y
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