What to do when someone lists your car for sale on ebay?

[JustPassingThrough]

if you don't like ebay don't use it, but don't knock it just because you didn't like your experience.

I've sold over 50 things and have bought much more than that and have never had a problem. People keep talking about ebay not doing enough to combat fraud but what about ebayers themselves taking some responsibility.

1. don't bid on an NSX when the seller has previously only sold $5 coins.
2. email the person asking for more info.
3. employ a service to go and actually check the car out. Or ask on a board if someone in the area would go look at it and make sure it's on the level
4. run a carfax

I'm pretty dumb and I thought of those off the top of my head.

I say if someone gets screwed on the deal with this car it's his own fault. Yes, the guy who hijacked the account needs to go to jail, but anyone who sends that kind of money should have done a little homework too and should share some responsibility.

 

[nsxtasy]

See what really pisses me off is out of those 64,000 complaints everyday

They don't get 64,000 fraud complaints a day, or 64,000 complaints a day. They get 64,000 e-mails a day. I'm sure they run the gamut:

"Someone hijacked an account and is selling my car"

"AT&T disconnected my e-mail address and I can't access my profile to change it"

"I forgot my password"

"My account was incorrectly billed for someone else's auction"

"I need to change my auction but I don't know how"

"I want to thank you for providing such a valuable service"

etc.

 

[nsxxtreme]

but don't you think this one stands out from the rest "Someone hijacked an account and is selling my car". It also should be of greater concern and dealt with appropiately. This should not be included in the general email or customer service department to begin with. Many companies have a fraud department. Ebay is a very large business that makes a profit. There is no reason to expect any less of ebay. Fraud can happen in a matter of seconds. They need a system they can respond to and act on immediately.

 

[Brian2by2]

ya, we're not talking about selling $5 coins...we're talking a $18-40k car...and we're talkin a guy taking wire transfers for $5,000 a pop!!! thats nuts

 

[VampNSXX]

After 45 minutes on hold with eBay, here's what I get:

"Nothing we can do, please email the complaint dept"

so typical when things like that happen to us. Some times it look like they are just giving criminals more rights and freedom to get away with it. The worst part is when they start treating you like you are the criminal.

 

[nsxtasy]

Re: someone asked "how did he hijack the account"?

Here's how (one way, at least). I got an email (link to picture of email) that looks exactly like it came from ebay asking me to update my info. I looked at the source and found this was the action on the "sign in" button:
-----------------------------------------
action=http://www.tachibana.co.uk/php.php method=post>
-----------------------------------------

That means if you put your username and password in and click the "sign in" button, it gets sent to "www(dot)tachibana(dot)co(dot)uk". They're using ebay graphics and actually pulling stuff in from pics.ebay.com to build the form...

Yup.

From today's Washington Post:

Online Identity-Theft Tactic Targeted

By Jonathan Krim
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, July 22, 2003; Page E01

A Los Angeles 17-year-old has settled charges that he used fake Web pages to lure consumers to provide credit card numbers and other personal data, the Federal Trade Commission announced yesterday in a crackdown on a growing form of Internet fraud.

The case against the teenager, who was not identified, is the first brought by the FTC that targets "phishing," a pernicious scam that marries e-mail spam with identity theft. The term is used by computer vandals who go fishing for information. The FBI and Justice Department also investigated the case.

The action comes as reports of identity theft are soaring. The FTC said it logged 161,886 complaints last year, and is on track to record more than 200,000 this year.

Separately, the business research group Gartner Inc. released a survey yesterday that showed the problem might be far bigger than the FTC numbers suggest. The Gartner survey estimated that 7 million U.S. adults were victims of identity theft in the year ending last month, a 79 percent increase over the previous year.

Most identity theft still occurs in the off-line world. But at a news conference yesterday, Internet service provider Earthlink Inc., the FTC, the FBI and the National Consumers League warned that phishing is a dangerous new trend.

The scam artists send fraudulent e-mails to unsuspecting customers of service providers or retailers with whom consumers regularly do business. The e-mails are doctored to look like they came from the provider and claim that they need the consumer to verify his or her account information.

Consumers are asked to click on a link that directs them to a "phisher" page, which is designed to mimic the service provider's site. The page asks the user to re-submit his or her personal information for the account, sometimes including passwords and Social Security numbers.

The information is captured by the scam artist, who can use it to make purchases, invade bank accounts and otherwise steal someone's identity.

In the Los Angeles case, the teenager created a fake America Online member page. FTC officials said the youngster was able to run up about $8,000 in purchases using credit data he had obtained.

Other prominent firms, such as Earthlink, eBay, its payment subsidiary PayPal, and electronics retailer Best Buy all have been targeted.

Under terms of the settlement, the teen agreed to surrender $3,500 in ill-gotten gains, including his computer, and to never send spam again.

Officials at the news conference advised consumers to never respond to such e-mails. They said a prominent clue is when the e-mail claims the information is necessary because of a computer crash or other calamity.

"No reputable company will ask you for that kind of information" in that manner, said David Baker, Earthlink's head of public policy.

The Gartner survey, based on about 2,400 replies to a mailing of about 600,000 households, criticized the financial services industry for not doing enough to stop identity theft.

"They don't know the extent of the problem," said Avivah Litan, a Gartner vice president and the Stamford, Conn., company's research director. She said that when scam artists apply for credit using someone else's identity, financial institutions "just write it off as a credit loss. They have no reason to suspect it's identity theft."

Litan said financial service providers need to be tougher when people apply for credit.

Nessa Feddis, senior federal counsel for the American Bankers Association, was dubious about the Gartner numbers.

She said that although identity theft is not an overwhelming percentage of overall fraud, it is a top priority for banks.

"There's much more vigilance now," Feddis said. "It's gotten much more sophisticated."

FTC officials say they worry that too much identity theft still goes unreported.

Sidebar:

Avoiding E-mail and Internet Scams

-- Be wary of unsolicited e-mail that asks, either directly or through a Web site, for personal financial or identity information, such as a Social Security number or passwords.

-- Don't click on the links provided in such e-mail.

-- When updating account information use a familiar process, such as visiting the known Web address of a company's account maintenance page. Unfamiliar addresses for this probably are fake.

-- Make sure an Internet connection is secure -- with an icon of a lock visible on the Web browser -- before submitting personal information.

-- Monitor credit card and bank statements for unauthorized charges.

-- If an e-mail or Web site is in doubt, make sure the request is authentic by contacting the company directly by phone or through a Web site or e-mail address known to be authentic.

-- People victimized by a fraudulent e-mail or Web site should contact their local police department and file a complaint with the FBI and the FTC. Consumers also should report fraudulent or suspicious e-mail to their Internet service provider.

© 2003 The Washington Post Company

 

[sgt538]

Sorry to crash your forum guys, but someone posted a link to this thread on CorvetteForum. After the aution was closed I e-mailed the seller that I was interested if he had any other NSX's. He siad its still for sale and he wants my 5 grand. You are all correct that none of the law enforcement brances give a shit until there is a victim, and once there is you wanna bet they'd ever locate this offender?? Check it out:


Subj:__ Question from eBay Member

__Date:_ 7/21/2003 5:45:07 PM Eastern Standard Time

__From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>

__Reply-To:__ [email protected]

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From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Subject: Question from eBay Member
Date: 7/21/2003 5:45:07 PM Eastern Standard Time
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Car is stil available for sale to a serious buyer. i request a downpayment
for $5,000 by wire bank transfer. As soon as advance is received I will
start shipping process. you will have it in 5-7 days. after delivery you
must complete the balance. let me know your shipping address.

Thanks and looking forward to your reply with decision.

regards,
Andy

<I missed the NSX auction. Are you a dealer or do you have any other NSX's
available? _I really want a white one. >

____________________________________________________Subj:__Re: Question from eBay Member

__Date:__7/21/2003 9:47:44 PM Eastern Standard Time

__From:__"Andy Young" <[email protected]>

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Subject: Re: Question from eBay Member
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Please reconfirm our agreement with the following questions:
1. do you know how much are you going to deposit tomorrow ?
2. do you know that shipping will take 5-7 days ?
Answering to these questions confirms that we have an agreement and I know
that you are serious.

I will forward wire instructions as soon as I hear from you.

Kind regards,
Andy

>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: Question from eBay Member
>Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2003 22:34:43 -0400

>Excellent! _I will take it. _Where do I wire the down payment? _ Do you
>have a shipper? Where is the car shipping from? I have used DAS in the
>past.


__________________________________________________


Subj: Re: Question from eBay Member

_Date: 7/22/2003 5:59:23 PM Eastern Standard Time

_From: "Andy Young" <[email protected]>

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Subject: Re: Question from eBay Member
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Please wire the money with the fllowing instructions:

Bank Name: Netbank
Bank address: P.O. Box 2368 ,Alpharetta, GA
Routing Number: 061091977
Account Number: 11002345756
Account name: Andy Yeung

I am looking forward to your reply with confirmation.

Because of the high amount of people who are trying to pay without notifying
me let me know who sent the money and from which bank ? If i don't hear from
you till morning I will have all wires returned back and no way to wire
anymore.

Thanks,
Andy

 

[AndyH]

rules of thumb....don't buy anything over $200 on ebay

 

[AndyH]

oh yeah.....always use your credit card.......you can alway call the credit card company to charge back

 

[Brian2by2]

hmm...interesteing....

The VIN he posted registers to a car now in Miami Florida...Thanks to ANYTIME for the carfax!!!



Year/Make/Model: 1992 ACURA NSX

Body Style: COUPE
Engine: 3.0L V6 PFI DOHC 24V
Fuel: GASOLINE
Driveline: REAR WHEEL DRIVE
Manufactured in: JAPAN
Safety Equipment: 4 wheel ABS, Driver front air bag/passenger side active (manual) belt

Standard Equipment: Power Windows, Power Steering, Air Conditioning, AM / FM Cassette, Power Brakes, Tilt Wheel





Total Loss Check:


GOOD NEWS! This 1992 ACURA NSX (JH4NA1157NT000794) has had no severe accidents or other total loss events reported to CARFAX from a Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV). This vehicle qualifies for the CARFAX Certified History, a guarantee worth up to $5,000.

No Salvage Title Reported No Loss Due To Fire Title Reported
No Junk Title Reported No Flood Damage Title Reported
No Rebuilt/Reconstructed Title Reported No Hail Damage Title Reported
No Dismantled Title Reported No Canadian Total Loss Record Reported

Other Accident Indicators:


This 1992 ACURA NSX (JH4NA1157NT000794) has had no accident indicators reported to CARFAX from its sources. This section checks for accidents and/or related damage reported from many public and private sources. Not all accidents are reported to CARFAX. A vehicle inspection completed by your dealer or professional mechanic is recommended.

No Salvage Auction Record Reported No Crash Test Vehicle Record Reported
No Fire Damage Record Reported No Airbag Deployment Record Reported
No Police Accident Record Reported No Damage Disclosure Record Reported


CARFAX depends on public and private sources for its accident data. Each one of these sources has different processing times. CARFAX can only report what is in our database on 21.Jul.2003 23:57:52. New data will result in a change to this report.

Accident Check FAQs:
How CARFAX Customers use this section | Insurance claims on CARFAX? | About accident reports | Accident statistics

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Truth-In-Mileage Check:


GOOD NEWS! This 1992 ACURA NSX (JH4NA1157NT000794) has had no odometer problems reported to CARFAX from a Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) under the Truth-In-Mileage Act. This vehicle qualifies for the CARFAX Certified History, a guarantee worth up to $5,000.

No Not Actual Mileage Title Reported No Exceeds Mechanical Limits Title Reported

Odometer Rollback Check:


CARFAX did not uncover any odometer rollbacks for this 1992 ACURA NSX (JH4NA1157NT000794).

Date: Mileage:
02/02/1995 18,605
04/12/1996 31,729
11/22/1999 70,000
09/20/2000 76,437
04/11/2002 89,188
07/24/2002 90,352
02/26/2003 91,456 Reported on 02/25/2003

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GOOD NEWS! This 1992 ACURA NSX (JH4NA1157NT000794) has had no Manufacturer Buyback (LEMON) reported to CARFAX from a Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV). This vehicle qualifies for the CARFAX Certified History, a guarantee worth up to $5,000.

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Ownership History:


CARFAX estimates that this 1992 ACURA NSX (JH4NA1157NT000794) has had 4 owner(s). CARFAX analyzed this vehicle's title history and other supporting events to identify potential ownership transfers. In compliance with the U.S. privacy laws, CARFAX does not collect or report owner names or addresses.

Estimated Owners: Date: Location:
1st owner No data No data
2nd owner 04/04/2002 Arizona
3rd owner 10/01/2002 California
4th owner 02/26/2003 Florida

Types of Owners:


This 1992 ACURA NSX (JH4NA1157NT000794) was checked for 9 types of registrations.

No Private Use Registration Reported No Fleet Registration Reported
Lease Registration Reported No Commercial Registration Reported
No Rental Registration Reported No Non-Profit Registration Reported
No Government Registration Reported No Built to Non U.S. Standards Record Reported
No Taxi Registration Reported

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ACURA does not report recall information for specific vehicles to CARFAX.
Go to the CARFAX SAFETY & RELIABILITY REPORT for recalls issued by the National Highway Traffic Safety Association for the 1992 ACURA NSX. You can also contact an authorized dealership or ACURA at 1-800-999-1009 to find out if this 1992 ACURA NSX (JH4NA1157NT000794) still has recalls that require repair.

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CARFAX searched over 2.16 billion records from over 4,000 different public and private sources and found 10 record(s) for this 1992 ACURA NSX (JH4NA1157NT000794).

Date:
Odometer Reading:
Source:
General Comments:


02/02/1995 18,605 Arizona
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Fort Mohave, AZ
Title #J5O3950330096
Title or registration issued
Loan or lien reported


04/12/1996 31,729 Arizona
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Peoria, AZ
Title #H8GY961030243
Title or registration issued
Loan or lien reported


11/22/1999 70,000 Arizona
Inspection Station
Passed emissions inspection


09/20/2000 76,437 Arizona
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Phoenix, AZ
Title #A44551C263512
Registration issued


04/04/2002 Arizona
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Santa Ana, CA
Title #A55471E094051
Registration issued
New owner reported
Registered as lease vehicle


04/11/2002 89,188 Auto Auction
Sold at auction
in Pacific Southwest Region
Listed as
a fleet vehicle


06/21/2002 Auto Auction
Sold at auction
in Pacific Southwest Region
Listed as
a dealer vehicle


07/24/2002 90,352 California
Inspection Station
Manhattan Beach, CA
Passed emissions inspection


10/01/2002 California
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Miami Beach, FL
Title issued
New owner reported


02/26/2003 91,456 Florida
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Pompano Beach, FL
Title #0087468030
Title issued
New owner reported
Odometer reading recorded on 02/25/2003

 

[ajnsx]

lost faith in the justice depatrment years ago, house broken into stolen goods, after my own sleuthing, found the guys address, my stolen goods in a pawn shop, positive identifcation, police didnt care............hand out any type of revenge i go to gaol.
i dont have words for how angry this makes me, so here's a piccy instead

 

[Ojas]

From ebay

from ebay (Tue 7/22/2003 9:28 PM CST):
Hello,

Thank you for writing to us.

I wanted to let you know that the account you reported was compromised and used to list unauthorized items.

We have since secured the account and contacted the true owner. Additionally, the account has since been restored and control given back to the true owner.

We appreciate your email, and wish you the best in your eBay activity.

Regards,

Bastion
eBay SafeHarbor
Investigations Team
...

 

[Ojas]

if the ip you got ends in .20 then you got the right one. otherwise...it's the wrong one

Well, there is not necessarily one "right" IP, that makes all other "wrong." I have a different IP, which ends in .15. He could certainly have used more than one IP (from another ISP, dial-up account, tunnel, VPN, dynamic IP, or any number of other means), but I am 99.99% sure the IP I have is from the computer he used Sunday, July 20, 2003 around 10:00 PM CST when checking his MSN email.

If the authorities decide to get involved, any IP used by this guy could help track him down.

 

[Tom239]

I buy smaller items on Ebay, but I would never touch Ebay motors. There's too much shenanigans going on there.

And I don't think the rules are fair. If a buyer makes a bid, he is on the hook. But a seller is allowed to terminate a car auction at any time if he happens to have sold the car outside of Ebay. I think this is uncool; I wrote to Ebay asking them about this, and their response was... nothing. I never heard back.

 

[QWKSLVR]

if you don't like ebay don't use it, but don't knock it just because you didn't like your experience.

I've sold over 50 things and have bought much more than that and have never had a problem. People keep talking about ebay not doing enough to combat fraud but what about ebayers themselves taking some responsibility.

1. don't bid on an NSX when the seller has previously only sold $5 coins.
2. email the person asking for more info.
3. employ a service to go and actually check the car out. Or ask on a board if someone in the area would go look at it and make sure it's on the level
4. run a carfax

I'm pretty dumb and I thought of those off the top of my head.

I say if someone gets screwed on the deal with this car it's his own fault. Yes, the guy who hijacked the account needs to go to jail, but anyone who sends that kind of money should have done a little homework too and should share some responsibility.

I think there are some valid points being made both ways here and like everything else there are pros & cons and catch 22's to ebay. But I was just wondering if some of you guys have actually read the first post of this thread? The problem (at least not at the start of this thread) wasn't that somebody just got screwed out of a $5,000 wire transfer for a car that doesn't exist (as suggested by the 4 points above). NSXnBRLA was not scammed out of money, but he was pissed b/c his intellectual property was hijacked or violated when his car's pics & info were used in a scammer's ad. This was a case where the actual owner of the car spotted the ad placed by the scammer BEFORE the actual transaction was completed. I would guess that most frauds involving the sale of nonexistent cars actually transpire w/o detection until the money is gone and there's nothing to show for it. The point here is that the clock was ticking and the crime could have been prevented, but ebay & the authorities could do nothing but let the auction continue it's course, that's what's frustrating!

 

[Brian2by2]

The only problem with that qukslvr is that too many people tried to purchase the car outside of ebay...all getting the same "I require a $5,000 deposit wired to my account".


I highly doubt ebay scam artists that sell "cars" make most of their money through the actual ebay auction, but rather through inquiring minds that try and do it off to the side.

 

[Ojas]

Hm...

 

[KGP]

How to get him

Sorry for not being able to respond sooner, but I am in the midst of moving my office, and into a new home, but this thread is right up my alley.

I am a partner in a company who provides wire transfer services, as well as other elctronic financial transactions services, so I think I might be able to assist.

All financial transactions have risk, and in this case the risk lies totally with the initiator of the wire tranfer, period. So, don't anyone send a wire to the guy without knowing exactly what you are doing (duh). A "sting" could be setup, but it would require that help of the RDFI (receivers bank), FBI, and might also need some assistance from the originating institution. The key would be to have everything setup before the transfer took place, making the guy expose himself to collect.

An after the fact effort will land anyone who tries with absolutely nothing....trust me, I've been there...and for a whole lot more money than 5K. After 9/11 anything under 250K is peanuts to the FBI. Banks have certain regulatory requirements that make it very difficult to find out where the money has gone (he will wire it out as soon as he gets it), which hand-cuffs the law enforcement community. We actually hired two ex Navy Seals turned private investigators (Vito and Guito we could call them ) to track our guy down, and still got nowhere.

This is also NOT an eBay issue as one might think. If it were a Paypal/eBay tranfer via the ACH network that would be a different issue. In fact, if the guy is greedy enough, a "buyer" might be able to talk the guy into originating an ACH debit to the buyers account, leaving the buyer with a safe-guard as the risk then lies with the ODFI bank, in this case the sellers bank. But, he has most likely done all this before.

By the way, I checked my routing number databse (live to the Fed) and the routing number of "061091977" comes back as invalid. If I had the correct RTN I could pass on the contact in the Banks wire transfer department. I suspect that Netbank uses a correspondent relationship with another bank, maybe that is why it shows up as invalid. If it's important enough I could trace it down.

 

[CentralCoaster]

I'm from CorvetteForum.com. We've been watching this thread also. I use eBay often, and was checking out a $250 item. This is a wake up call to me. I might consider trying to purchase the car just to join in the fun. I'd snap if this happened to me.

Keep us posted.

Have you contacted LOCAL news agencies yet? That's one way to get it passed to the national news networks. And anything relating to eBay has been newsworthy as of late.

 

[NSX Prime]

WOAH THERE....that's MY VIN NUMBER! It's posted here in the new owners section, and also it's still in Autotrader. I need to remove that!

SR

 

[JustPassingThrough]

But I was just wondering if some of you guys have actually read the first post of this thread? The problem (at least not at the start of this thread) wasn't that somebody just got screwed out of a $5,000 wire transfer for a car that doesn't exist (as suggested by the 4 points above). NSXnBRLA was not scammed out of money, but he was pissed b/c his intellectual property was hijacked or violated when his car's pics & info were used in a scammer's ad.

I've read every post and if he mentioned being pissed about his pictures/descriptions being used, I missed it. I thought he was doing this to be a good citizen and try to stop someone from getting ripped off... just like if I saw someone casing a store's cash register I'd tell the store owner, I 'got' that he was hoping to keep an innocent person from losing $5k.

If he's going through all of this because someone used his pictures and stole a description he freely put on a public website then he has a warped sense of how important his car is.

So, sorry but I think you're wrong. I can understand him involving ebay if someone is using his pictures/description but if he's involving the local police, banks, and the FBI just because "he was pissed b/c his intellectual property was hijacked or violated" then he should send everyone involved a letter of apology now.

NSXnBRLA, please clear this up... why are you going after this guy exactly?

 

[NSXnBRLA]

NSXnBRLA, please clear this up... why are you going after this guy exactly?

Same reason you would contact the police if you were parked outside of a bank, and saw three guys donning ski masks in the parking lot. That sums it up. I like this country very much, and any opportunity I see to help keep scum like this from stealing from another fellow citizen, I will jump on it. To answer your other question about the pictures. I do not care one bit that they were my pictures, but since they were, i'm stepping up to help. I, more than anyone else, could prove BEYOND a reasonable doubt, that his intentions were to commit fraud. After all, that car is sitting in my carport, titled to me. Id not feel too good if NSXPRIME had a new thread surface, with pictures of my car attached, and some ticked off 'buyer' looking for any information on 'this car' because he got scammed on eBay by the owner. Anyone that doesnt know me directly, would at least draw one thought about whether or not i'm a crook.

 

[JustPassingThrough]

that's what I thought and that's what I hoped.

thanks for clearing it up for QWKSLVR.

 

[Brian2by2]

Woah...i'm a little confused...

are you saying it would have been OK if he used someone else's pictures??? ouch! We're a close knit community and I don't want someone trying to join our community by purchasing an NSX (more for themselvse than to "join" the community but they'd become a member none the less)...we watch out for each other...and I can't stand people that don't want to go out there and do a little work for their money...this guy is just gonna cheat people and thats not cool.

 

[Brian2by2]

WOAH THERE....that's MY VIN NUMBER! It's posted here in the new owners section, and also it's still in Autotrader. I need to remove that!

SR

Well if its in the autotrader, we still have hope that the culprit doesn't know about nsxprime....but new owners section isn't good!