What a track weekend/Rotor question

more pics:

8071P1010106a-med.jpg


8071P1010105a-med.jpg


sure it's just another cracked rotor but still.. tada..

anywho.. i got my 'duralast' rotors in... under inspection i notice that they both have the same vein pattern/design...

guess we'll see this weekend and so on..

Oh yeah.. design on the ducting and comments from the man himself:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19326&highlight=brake

x
 
Yeah.. his do go a lil further.. :redface:

Guess if there's no difference I know the error... :tongue:

x
 
Not to hog the thread but, has anybody else take on the front rotor hats/splash guards and seen any difference positive or negative on their temps. I was planning on replacing my rotors in the summer and wanted to get a consensus on what to do with the rotor hats.

TIA.
 
Some people keep the rotor hats there to keep a thermal barrier between the rotor and ball joints. Seem people take them out and let the thermal barrier be damned. And some put reflective tape around the ball joints to maintain the thermal barrier.

FYI, I'm sure you know this but just to put it out there...it's a great idea to duct your brakes but you'll want to be certain that the ducting is as close as possible to the center of the rotor, that the ducting is as straight as possible with minimal vertical bends, and that the addtion of ducting doesn't take your brake pads out of the optimal temperature.
 
NSXLuvr said:
Not to hog the thread but, has anybody else take on the front rotor hats/splash guards and seen any difference positive or negative on their temps. I was planning on replacing my rotors in the summer and wanted to get a consensus on what to do with the rotor hats.

TIA.
Click to expand...


In fact, almost all who go with BBK or aftermarket brakes for tracking remove them, at least on the fronts. If you don't intend to track your car, then you really don't need to remove them. I removed my fronts only after I progressed enough where I needed to start cooling my rotors and change my rotors ...... I think the ball joint issue is more critical on the rears where cooling options are less. But I have yet to see some real data as to whether the fronts get as much heat damage as the rears when taken off, and after how many hard track days/miles. Sometimes you need to take these concerns in the context that they are offered.

And yes, you will see differences in temps as posted in this excellent thread:

http://www.nsxsc.com/html/article9.html

Removing the front shield will lower it by 100F-125F. It did on mine.
 
Ponyboy said:
Some people keep the rotor hats there to keep a thermal barrier between the rotor and ball joints. Seem people take them out and let the thermal barrier be damned. And some put reflective tape around the ball joints to maintain the thermal barrier.
Click to expand...

If you track your car you should take the dust shield off. Not only it reduces the air going colling the rotor, it also isolate the heat to the rotor area thus more cooling time is needed.

If you worry about the ball joint boot, just wrap the ball joint with aluminum foil.
 
VBNSX said:
All opinions would be GREATLY appreciated..
Click to expand...

All opinions? Well, here I am!

It's "common knowledge" on honda-tech that for Road Race/HPDE, the best rotors in the world are the cheap ones you can find at Autozone. Duralast and Aimco are specifically two of the "known good" brands.

They are disposable. They take a beating before cracking. They don't seem to warp often. Some people use the warranty, some don't (I don't.)

I use them on my 295 WHP Integra with no issues for HPDE. Brake pads are hit-or-miss though. Carbotech XP9's glazed after two days at Road America, but Cobalt Spec VR's are working great so far.

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=181691
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=970453
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=397525
 
*Update*

Just got in from the track again today.

*notes*
VIR - South course = 1.64 miles
VERY technical with grade changes, blind, off camber turns and many deep braking zones.

Checkerd flag is probably given and you probably have about 1 mile of slow speed. Plus two laps around the paddock.. (400ft total about)..

Front rotor temp: 700F
Rear rotor temp: 410F
:eek:

amazing... oh yeah.. my front rotors are dead now.. you can't go 1/4 inch anywhere on the surface without seeing some sort of stress crack....

rear autzones.. not even a single stress crack yet.. :biggrin:

good stuff...

just more fyi.

x
 
Re: *Update*

VBNSX said:
Front rotor temp: 700F
Rear rotor temp: 410F
Click to expand...
That's sounds like the relation I would have expected and doesn't sound as too hot IMO. Of course I can't calculate the cooling speed. Front stock rotors can have about 1,100 F when measured immediately after some hot laps. Rears have usualy about 850 F.
 
Even after the cool down laps???

I thought they'd be lower.. i mean i take my cool down laps VERY slow..

Have to correct myself on my previous post.. there's 1, 1/4inch crack on the left rear rotor... :tongue:
x
 
I'm in the same boat with my stock size brakes. I'm going through rotors every 2-3 events. I'm running R compounds and the traction is outperforming the brakes. I'm running Type R suspension and all the non compliance stuff. My brakes have stainless lines, ATE Bule fluid, Carbotech XP8 pads and Dali deflectors. I'm running Powerslot rotors as well. I'm getting the brakes so hot that I'm smearing brake material across the entire rotor and it still hasn't come off after 400 after-track street miles. The brakes shudder after my events (Yes, I properly bed my brakes/pads when new and before events). The Carbotech XP8's are a track pad that can supposedly withstand temps of up to 1100 degrees. Apparently my brakes are going beyond that, because the pads are smearing and I'm wearing grooves in the rotor face after 1 event and large hairline cracks after two events. I'm going to try to salvage these new rotors tomorrow at Autovave and have them turned. Proper ducting is not an option, since I do not want to loose my AC. I think I must bite the bullet and get a Big Brake Kit. I officially do not believe that the stock brakes are trackable with R compounds. Sorry wallet.
 
ryneen said:
I'm in the same boat with my stock size brakes. I'm going through rotors every 2-3 events. I'm running R compounds and the traction is outperforming the brakes. I'm running Type R suspension and all the non compliance stuff. My brakes have stainless lines, ATE Bule fluid, Carbotech XP8 pads and Dali deflectors. I'm running Powerslot rotors as well. I'm getting the brakes so hot that I'm smearing brake material across the entire rotor and it still hasn't come off after 400 after-track street miles. The brakes shudder after my events (Yes, I properly bed my brakes/pads when new and before events). The Carbotech XP8's are a track pad that can supposedly withstand temps of up to 1100 degrees. Apparently my brakes are going beyond that, because the pads are smearing and I'm wearing grooves in the rotor face after 1 event and large hairline cracks after two events. I'm going to try to salvage these new rotors tomorrow at Autovave and have them turned. Proper ducting is not an option, since I do not want to loose my AC. I think I must bite the bullet and get a Big Brake Kit. I officially do not believe that the stock brakes are trackable with R compounds. Sorry wallet.
Click to expand...


Some people on this forum have done sufficient brake ducting while keeping their AC.... Ken's ducting is one of my first thoughts.. do a search.

x
 
VBNSX:
Your best bet for cooling your front rotors is not use them on your cool down lap. Also keep your speed at touring level if possible, you'll still should being able to make all the turns without using your brakes. Keep your NSX in third gear, the engine back pressure will slow the car without brakes.You need the air flow from speed (about 50-60 mph) to be effective for cooling. Driving slow on the cool down and driving around the paddock won't do squat.
I won't let my students use their brakes on cool down at all. It also helps build their confidence.
 
Good point, Peter! I was also wondering why he drives a "very slow" cool down lap when you need much airflow to cool down the brakes. Regarding to this habit I guess his brakes where indeed not hotter than usual immediately before the cool down lap.
 
Hrm.. good point... i usually go slow though just for that perspective though... so I don't have to use my brakes anywhere on the course on my way in... maybe i'm going too slow.. :tongue: kinda odd on the south course.. the infamous oak tree turn.. kinda have to go slow for that one...

I'm gonna add some ducting (somehow... my front tray diffuser makes it difficult to route stuff under there)... and hopefully with the combination of better track-in procedures and cooling it will help them last...

I think these rotors lasted... perhaps.. maybe 10 events.. i guess that rather good now that i think about it.

x
 
VBNSX said:
Some people on this forum have done sufficient brake ducting while keeping their AC.... Ken's ducting is one of my first thoughts.. do a search.

x
Click to expand...

I was hoping that I could add ducting without removing my A/C evaportator. I did do a search and saw Ken's ducting. I bought the NACA ducting and all related materials. However, upon inspection I realized that one side would not be very effective. The hose gets too compressed and is not functional. I also had Autowave try to install the hoses and ducting. They said it wouldn't be functional as well. On our cars we have two choices to solve overheating brakes; remove the A/C to add functional ducting or get Big Brakes. Apparently there is no way around overheating the stock brakes if you drive hard.
 
ryneen said:
On our cars we have two choices to solve overheating brakes; remove the A/C to add functional ducting or get Big Brakes.
Click to expand...
I've made both! :biggrin: (Ken would comment: That's ideal for morons who brake too much or false on the track :wink: )
 
ryneen said:
I'm running Type R suspension and all the non compliance stuff. My brakes have stainless lines, ATE Blue fluid, Carbotech XP8 pads and Dali deflectors. I'm getting the brakes so hot that I'm smearing brake material across the entire rotor.....Apparently my brakes are going beyond that, because the pads are smearing and I'm wearing grooves in the rotor face after 1 event and large hairline cracks after two events.
Click to expand...

I have the same suspension but don't use R-compound. I assume you have graduated up from Carbotech Panther Plus which I still use. You obviously know that it is normal for race brake pads to smear pad materal onto the rotors - that's how they work - and some shudder may result because of uneven application of brake material. The Carbotech XP8 with their greater bite may be responsible for the grooves. The Panther Plus don't seem to groove my rotors. I could suggest that you use Motul brake fluid since it has higher dry and wet temperatures than ATE.

I have gone with 1997+ front and rear brake calipers and slotted rotors with Dali air deflectors and find this much superior to the pre-1997 setup. After selling my old front calipers and mounts for $350 and the slightly used front rotors for $100, my total cost for the used 1997+ brakes and rotors was $900 - it's a significant upgrade for not much money. They will fit the 1994 and later 16 and 17 inch wheels.
 
Last edited:
Just a follow up on the 'duralast' rotors.

The left rear lasted exactly 10 events. But I must note that some events were 1 day events and since I was instructing I only got a couple (literally) runs on them.

Time to go see how the follow up on their 'warranty' is. :tongue:

x
 
I'm new here, and this is an interesting thread.

I would like to mention, have you checked out RacingBrake rotors? They have upgraded from OE straight vane to curved vanes. Curved vanes pump more air and keep disc cooler over straight vanes. These rotors are "directional" meaning left and right discs are different and requires two sets of tooling, instead of just one set in the case of staight vanes.

They also have two-piece rotors (center-mount), which is lighter and is true-floating which allows the disc to expand and contract freely without stressing the hat therefore prevents the disc from warping or cracking.

VBNSX:
It seems you are looking for something better, well I invite you to checkout the website and read what we got (racingbrake.com). We recently just released an article on how important your brake rotors are located here:
Importance of Brake Rotors

Daliracing offers our rotors as well, and he has information about it on his website.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks :biggrin:
 
VBNSX said:
Even after the cool down laps???

I thought they'd be lower.. i mean i take my cool down laps VERY slow..

Have to correct myself on my previous post.. there's 1, 1/4inch crack on the left rear rotor... :tongue:
x
Click to expand...
You mustn't take your cool down laps "VERY" slow. It is even better to take the cool down lap as fast as possible (if possible without braking). The rotors are vented and need at least 50 mph to let the vents work. Below that speed the rotors won't cool down in the way you want.
 

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