The Official 2017 F1 thread

By the time Vettel pulled strongy to the left Kimi was ahead of Verstappen. Even if Kimi lifted he and Verstappen would have crashed because Verstappen was forced to the left too. Should Verstappen have lifted? Maybe yes, I guess he was trying to but by the time he was aware of the sandwich it was too late as the rear track is wider than the front of an F1 car.

F1 starts in wet conditions show much more variance (bad, average, rocket starts) than in dry conditions. Vettel knew he had an average start...so he should have expected that someone behind him was a tad faster (Kimi, Hamilton but not Alonso). His manoevre reminded me of Schumacher. Villeneuve stated it quite clearly: you don't take such a risk when you fight for the championship. Ergo: not a unlucky race incident but clearly Vettels fault 100%.
 
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solidol said:
Are you suggesting Kimi should have lifted? Or what do you think he should have done differently? Wall on the left, dutch sponge on the right - where to go?
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Yes, for sure as Max was ahead, Kim's was heading into a wedge....I have looked at the start several times....and it all started, with Kimi's car rear wheel hitting Max front.
Max did not move His steering wheel one bit....(BTW I don't like Max) Vettel, just when for the block

Have a look at it again.
 
Bram said:
Yes, for sure as Max was ahead, Kim's was heading into a wedge....I have looked at the start several times....and it all started, with Kimi's car rear wheel hitting Max front.
Max did not move His steering wheel one bit....(BTW I don't like Max) Vettel, just when for the block

Have a look at it again.
Click to expand...

Have you ever been on a starting grid? By the time Kimi was beside Verstappen, he wasn't going to be looking at braking out of there! And he wouldn't have been too aware of how dire the situation was becoming, because as they made contact he would have been focusing on where his braking point would be for that first corner. Same for Verstappen, by the time he realized he was in a sandwich it was too late, mainly because Vettel's chop was far too aggressive. But they all do it to some degree, so it is only a matter of time before it will happen again, wet or dry start.

Totally Vettel's fault and boy does he knows it. But it was a racing incident and that's where the matter rests. We all make mistakes, even 4 time World Champion drivers.
 
Bram said:
I guess everyone see it differently...
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maybe just you see it differently Bram? :wink:

Kimi was up the inside of everyone and in front of Verstappen, he can't have been at fault. and Verstappen was trapped between two cars, so he wasn't at fault. Vettel was going from one side of the track to the other. i think it's pretty clear who caused that pile-up...

p.s. a real bummer for Alonso. i'm annoyed about the wasted Honda/McLaren years, i can only imagine how he feels. :miserable:
 
Alonso hasn't fared well in his team choices since his last championship! Jumping over to McLaren, bouncing back to Renault, moving to Ferrari, jumping back to McLaren, hoping into bed with Renault again [in a manner of speaking]. It won't look good in the history books, but not quite as bad as Chris Amon!! How he's managed to keep his sanity the last 3 years is beyond me? I suppose his Honda salary might make things just a little bearable. Who's paying him next year??

The only thing that will add some shine back into his illustrious career is if he manages to win another Driver's Championship. At this stage I'm not liking his odds.......
 
Oh well we can all agree to disagree.... but this is what is great about Prime, and love it

Just so you Guys know, i like Kimi, the other two not so much.

Bram
 
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Totally Vettel's fault. Just one of several stupid moves he's made over the years.
Sad because he has real talent, but too short a fuse and the possible championship clouds his judgement.
Go Lewis!
 
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Serb was attempting to blok Max which may have worked if Kimi didn't have such a great start. It was max right front wheel that hit Kimi right near tire, thus producing the chain of events. It was pure racing.
 
Back in my F/Atlantic days (88-92) under FIA rules including standing starts, it was not acceptable for a front row driver to start moving towards the guy next door at the green. Drivers just did not do it. IMO it is Schumaker with his and Ferrari's clout who made it acceptabe in F1. The stewards overlooked it and It is now totally accepted as part of the "show". I still think it is not a fair practice and Vettel's version was the reason for the accident.
 
True. I think Dutchman had a lot to loose actually: finish race, finish race on the podium given how good he is in wet.
 
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bboxer said:
Back in my F/Atlantic days (88-92) under FIA rules including standing starts, it was not acceptable for a front row driver to start moving towards the guy next door at the green. Drivers just did not do it. IMO it is Schumaker with his and Ferrari's clout who made it acceptabe in F1. The stewards overlooked it and It is now totally accepted as part of the "show". I still think it is not a fair practice and Vettel's version was the reason for the accident.
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*like button*
 
bboxer said:
Back in my F/Atlantic days (88-92) under FIA rules including standing starts, it was not acceptable for a front row driver to start moving towards the guy next door at the green. Drivers just did not do it. IMO it is Schumaker with his and Ferrari's clout who made it acceptabe in F1. The stewards overlooked it and It is now totally accepted as part of the "show". I still think it is not a fair practice and Vettel's version was the reason for the accident.
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Yes. Since the FIA has not said it isn’t allowed, it is now acceptable. I think Schumacher started doing it before joining Ferrari, but either way, the FIA should have made a statement.
 
We're talking Ferrari here.. and he knows it. They always get special treatment. Without redheads there's no F1.. don't remember who said it but it's kind of true.
 
Ferrari and the fia/f1 brass have always had a much closer relationship than the other teams...It will be interesting to see how the engine supplier shuffle will work out next year...
 
As has been said, "Without Ferrari, there is no Formula1."
But we digress.
I took another look this morning and I think Verstappen was so focused on Vettel he didn't look to his left and never saw Raikonen. A racing accident that could have been prevented by all three.
 
Miner said:
As has been said, "Without Ferrari, there is no Formula1."
But we digress.
I took another look this morning and I think Verstappen was so focused on Vettel he didn't look to his left and never saw Raikonen. A racing accident that could have been prevented by all three.
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I'm really sorry to say this, as you're entitled to your opinion, but you have shown your ignorance of what it's like to be in a racing car on the starting grid of a race! It all happened very quickly in real time, and Verstappen would have had no time in to which he could have reacted, applied the brake and then given the car enough time to "not be there"! Both Raikkonen and Verstappen did absolutely nothing wrong, nor should they have done anything different! They were racing towards the first corner of an F1 race, if they had dilly daddled up to the first corner they wouldn't deserve their Super Licences.

The one you could blame is Vettel, for he is the one who moved a long way over to cover Verstappen, but in the modern F1 era, he did nothing "technically" wrong, for which we can blame Michael Schumacher and his aggressive style off the line. But that's modern racing, so it was always going to be a "racing incident" and left at that.

I could also add I find it supremely ironic that Verstappen is the aggrieved driver in an incident that concerned a driver chopping over to cover an opponent approaching the braking area of a corner! :)
 
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sadlerau said:
I'm really sorry to say this, as you're entitled to your opinion, but you have shown your ignorance of what it's like to be in a racing car on the starting grid of a race! It all happened very quickly in real time, and Verstappen would have had no time in to which he could have reacted, applied the brake and then given the car enough time to "not be there"! Both Raikkonen and Verstappen did absolutely nothing wrong, nor should they have done anything different! They were racing towards the first corner of an F1 race, if they had dilly daddled up to the first corner they wouldn't deserve their Super Licences.

The one you could blame is Vettel, for he is the one who moved a long way over to cover Verstappen, but in the modern F1 era, he did nothing "technically" wrong, for which we can blame Michael Schumacher and his aggressive style off the line. But that's modern racing, so it was always going to be a "racing incident" and left at that.

I could also add I find it supremely ironic that Verstappen is the aggrieved driver in an incident that concerned a driver chopping over to cover an opponent approaching the braking area of a corner! :)
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Perhaps you are right!
 
Has anyone else seen the article that Daniel Kvyat is out and Pierre Gasly is in?

I read on the 3 leg 4 wheels podcast that they are sitting him out so he doesn't get any other penalty points. I am just wondering if they are pushing Rocket man out sooner then later.
 

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