Semi-DIY Mild Engine Build for FI

Ellsworth is great. When I worked at a shop(Mt. View) in my younger days all of our engine machine work went to them including my race bike engine stuff. Never had a problem with any of their work.
 
EdinKali said:
Ellsworth is great. When I worked at a shop(Mt. View) in my younger days all of our engine machine work went to them including my race bike engine stuff. Never had a problem with any of their work.
Click to expand...

I've yet top find ANY stories of their work to be subpar. They really have a solid reputation.

My engine builder was telling me that the yelp mafia called them a few times to have them pay something like $300/month so that they can push or make the"bad"reviews down or make them invisible.

He laughed at them and told them that they have been i'm business longer than their oldest employee. He said it takes allot to erode 4 decades of reputation with the internet reviews.

Click
 
As far as costs go, it's the same old "it all depends."

If this engine fires up and runs for the next 100k miles, then I "saved" a lot by:

- Removing the engine and doing all of the disassembly myself

- Limiting the rebuild scope by not doing some of the things like rod bolts (need extra rod align bore and different rod bearing sizes), main caps (need block align bore and different main bearing sizes), no aftermarket cams (no need for the expensive adjustable cam gears and no need to degree them in), and no real head porting (I'm just doing like Batmans did on sharpening the valve divider walls).

- Engine reassembly and installation

As far as machining costs, all of the places I called and talked to were all "in the ballpark" of each other. ERL, King Motorsports, and locals. If you want extensive headwork, look at Portflow, Endyn, and RLZ (if you can get a hold of RLZ).


Obviously, if you don't have any mechanical knowledge, know when to question something if it doesn't look right, or are in a hurry, you shouldn't attempt to do this. This is the first engine I've ever worked on, and hopefully I don't screw it up. I've learned a lot, and there are a lot of helpful folks watching over me while I do this. I'm very grateful for that.


So, the short answer is that for basically the same engine parts and services as SOS, I save about $2k doing this myself (but mine includes the rotating assembly balance where theirs does not for the "base" build). That's just the difference in actual engine rebuild costs - engine removal and reinstallation are extra. With that ~$2k saved, I put it back in with all new sensors on the engine (temp, knock, CPS, TPS, etc), new crank dampener, a new locking TB pulley (new OEM one from Honda and then a $3 turnbuckle from Lowes), Dali billet oil pump gear, valve springs and components, and a few tools to do the job.


If you go into the engine for a refresh, you're going to spend at least $8k to get you a reliable platform for 500WHP IMO.


Dave
 
RYU said:
Not sure if the pricing is sensitive info but it would be really great if you guys can give us lookie-loos an idea of how much this all costs and how they price these things (i.e. by job, by hour, by scope of work?)
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Yes. I can share my pricing. there's a few things that ive amended along the way so remind me when im finished with the project and my engine is running.
 
Alright, head is fine, valves are in great shape and will be cleaned, decarboned, polished, cut, and reused.

Valve springs are within spec, but look a little weak. I've been checking into them and have asked for a quote of new OEM ones (along with new keepers, seats, and retainers) from Acura of Augusta.

I'm also checking into the Supertechs:
http://www.kingmotorsports.com/p-3376-supertech-valve-springs.aspx

or single-spring ones by KMS:
http://www.honda-performance.com/info-lv2.asp?id=418

Eibach valve springs (that Comptech and DA seem to use):
Part #20402.224, but same as H22 Honda engine and the springs are a lot stiffer than even the Supertechs. $450 for the springs and you can use the stock retainers. Not sure I'd want to with this stiffness though. They seem to be well-engineered.


Not sure I need the increased seating and opening pressures for my application... I'm checking with Comp Cams now to see if they have an equivalent product I can use.....
 
Mac Attack said:
Alright, head is fine, valves are in great shape and will be cleaned, decarboned, polished, cut, and reused.

Valve springs are within spec, but look a little weak. I've been checking into them and have asked for a quote of new OEM ones (along with new keepers, seats, and retainers) from Acura of Augusta.

I'm also checking into the Supertechs:
http://www.kingmotorsports.com/p-3376-supertech-valve-springs.aspx

or single-spring ones by KMS:
http://www.honda-performance.com/info-lv2.asp?id=418

Eibach valve springs (that Comptech and DA seem to use):
Part #20402.224, but same as H22 Honda engine and the springs are a lot stiffer than even the Supertechs. $450 for the springs and you can use the stock retainers. Not sure I'd want to with this stiffness though. They seem to be well-engineered.


Not sure I need the increased seating and opening pressures for my application... I'm checking with Comp Cams now to see if they have an equivalent product I can use.....
Click to expand...
What do you have to be mindful about when running stiffer springs? Valve retaining ring might not be strong enough? Increased wear on the cams?

I haven't really looked into this area so thanks for the education!
 
Both of those concerns and it also saps power. With Rob's experience breaking retainers, I'd be even more hesitant to run the stiffer Eibachs. Maybe that was the problem with docjohns comptech engine.

Like anything, there's a lot of engineering and testing that (should) happen for valvesprings. Eibach gives a little overview of what they do on their website.
 
Thanks for the feedback on those. I'm pretty sure they are the Supertech springs and titanium retainers - they both have the exact same specs comparing SOS and Supertech webpages.

If new OEM ones are outrageously priced and Comp Cams doesn't have an offering, I'll go with the Supertechs.
 
Hi,

BATMANs said:
All of my current and past engine builders recommended against titanium valve parts if engine longevity is a paramount concern.
Click to expand...

i have to agree with that when it comes to retainers... had JUN titanium retainers on my Civic B18 engine and after about 60000kms (37000 miles) almost all of them were thinner than paper just barely holding the spring... one even failed holding the outer spring and it was all holded down by the inner spring (here the retainer is thicker)

So, after this, if i use different springs, i plan to keep using OEM retainers.

Thanks,
Nuno
 
I knew this would generate some good discussion!

FYI - KMS even sells aluminum retainers for Hondas.

It's interesting how some people wear out their titanium retainers at 10k miles, 20k miles, or 30k miles. I think some of that was inferior titanium grade, and/or improper fit between the valve and retainer. Titanium is softer than steel or chromoly, but these titanium retainers should be lasting at least 50k miles easy.

Everyone recommends regular inspection, but I have no desire to take off my valve covers and inspect these things every 10k miles.

The high-performance engine builders recommend if you want to run Ti retainers, use the stronger harder (but more brittle) Ti-17 or Ti-6Al4V alloys. Make sure the springs will not rotate, and also go ahead and de-burr the springs edges. Make sure the springs have as much contact area as possible.
Also, make sure the retainers are designed to work with the valve keepers (angles are consistent).

Hopefully, I can still get new OEM retainers and valves (and they're about the same cost as aftermarket ones). If not, then I'll have to go with the supertechs. If this is what SOS puts in their nicer engine builds, then there should be a good population of these running around now with some miles on them.
 
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Mac Attack said:
Sounds like an awesome wife.

I've stooped to convincing mine that twin turbos are necessary components in an engine rebuild :redface: That and stand-alone engine management will increase my fuel economy.

J/K! My wife is pretty cool too.

Dave
Click to expand...


You better be careful. She can spice up the soup next time if she finds out.
 

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