RYU's "properly molested" NSX build thread

Youre talking about understeer on entry, then say it turns off throttle, then you're talking about understeer on throttle. What exactly is the issue?

You shouldn't be on throttle at corner entry.
 
I think RYU is talking about having understeer in steady-state condition. Is this what you meant RYU?
 
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Sorry for the confusion gentlemen and thank you for the response. I'm not the best at explaining these at all.

It happens at buttonwillow in the last section of the right-to-left kink in the esses. I start to accelerate at the exit of the right hander kink to prep for the quick left kink to gain straightline speed (this could be a totally wrong approach!) When I start accelerating at the [exit of the right/entry of the left] the steering wheel gets light for a quick second (I usually don't notice it at first) then it understeers away from the racing line and I'll slowly decrease throttle then the front tires will grab abruptly but I've already added a couple more degrees of steering angle. When it finally grabs it's kind of sketchy because all of the sudden you have front end grip and the car wants to swerve into a drift. I'd really like to feel the front end more here so I can let go of the throttle earlier and correct the steering angle. I know if I'm aggressive in this area then I can induce this behavior which is fine because I'm doing it on purpose. I just want to tone down this tendency a bit and eek out more performance so I can start my mild acceleration earlier. Is there a way to make this behavior more predictable for a crappy driver like myself or an I simply overdriving the car in this section? I feel like with the added rear traction from the LSD the car is like egging me on because the body feels so flat and stable in these conditions. The rear especially feels planted.

I will video a turn close to my house (in Mexico) which I can also easily induce the condition. The turn is an on ramp with a sight left (almost a kink) then another equal slight right too accelerate to Fwy speeds. It's a fun corner but a really easy way to upset the car if too aggressive.

Having said all that, as usual I think Billy is right. I shouldn't be hard accelerating through something like that which I'm not hard accelerating. However, I'd like to accelerate with 1/4 to 1/2 throttle though and have it still feel predictable. Is that possible? If so, what settings can I tinker around with? It feels like it should be a minor tweak in the dampers since it feels pretty good in most other conditions. It would be helpful to also know where the compromise is. For example if I make the front end feel more planted in this condition, what other grip will I give up elsewhere?

I've used your guidelines Billy and using it to tune out the mid entry front push, the skipping, etc. It was a really educational process.

If the problem in my example is my driving skills, I just need someone too tell me my car is setup right and it's doing what I need it to do and that I'm an idiot haha

Apologize for the long winded response.
 
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Almost all cars understeer there. Lift off the throttle earlier in the last left link to get the car to rotate, then back to power to stabilize the rest of the car and accelerate out of it.

Adjust the aggressiveness and amount of the throttle lift according to the cars balance to not cause the front to bite too much. An aggresive lift off throttle completely will cause the car to aggressively add front grip and possibly oversteer. So adjust your lift accordingly and then use the throttle to regain rear grip by inducing that on throttle understeer.

Work on driving technique because if you balance the car out on throttle with suspension or aero in that condition, then when you lift, you'll get way more oversteer. Since your car turns off throttle it sounds like you have a decent balance, and just need to work on driving.
 
stuntman said:
Almost all cars understeer there. Lift off the throttle earlier in the last left link to get the car to rotate, then back to power to stabilize the rest of the car and accelerate out of it.

Adjust the aggressiveness and amount of the throttle lift according to the cars balance to not cause the front to bite too much. An aggresive lift off throttle completely will cause the car to aggressively add front grip and possibly oversteer. So adjust your lift accordingly and then use the throttle to regain rear grip by inducing that on throttle understeer.

Work on driving technique because if you balance the car out on throttle with suspension or aero in that condition, then when you lift, you'll get way more oversteer. Since your car turns off throttle it sounds like you have a decent balance, and just need to work on driving.
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that's great news! I'm happy to hear that it's my driving that needs improvement.

As always, your contribution to our little community here is priceless man. Thanks so much.
 
Small update to keep this thread going :D

Getting closer on the damper settings. Still would be nice for a pro driver's feedback. Maybe one day.

I also updated my OEM 3 point seatbelt mounting points. I'm embarrassed to have driven it the way it was for so long. Thanks for [MENTION=27486]DreamPowered[/MENTION] for suggesting the right seat belt receptacle. It was virtually impossible to find these without his help. I have a properly setup 3 point now. I may actually change the bottom mounting point on the belt to move it from the slider to the harness bar. I have to measure if I have enough belt length to do that.

Pardon the dust...

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I started to document my build thread on youtube. Not sure if i'll transfer all future updates there or go back to this thread or maintain do both... we'll see how I feel about it. I have a few videos pending upload from my recent projects on the car. I also have videos planned for "FAQ" topics as I get enough PM's on the same topics; I can be more thorough on video. I'll probably be more active there than here but we'll see.

You can subscribe to it if you'd like.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTarT8hOQRYpRjxLeINBzsQ/videos
 
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Just finished watching your Track Day Prep and Getting Into the Zone video. Well done! Great reference for anyone prepping for their first (or many) track day. Thanks for putting this together.
 
RYU said:
Youtube video uploaded. This was taken with my cellphone inside my garage so the resonance is all screwy. Even my car sounds like it's idling like a v8. Keep in mind cellphones mics tend to be tuned to pick up the human voice range best. Not exhaust or noisy clutch frequencies lol.

You should compare the volume of my engine/exhaust at idle and at rpm compared to the sound of the floating clutch. I will say that the circumstances in this video make the clutch sound louder than it is (honestly speaking). For comparison my exhaust valves are closed in this video and in this config its slightly quieter than a Taitec GTLW on stock cats. http://youtu.be/51OMJtsOae0 I start depressing the clutch pedal at 18secs and progressively continue to do throughout the vid.

Around 46 secs you can see the responsiveness of the LWFW. It could be better but its perfect for a street driven NA car imo. I'm CTSC so it's a little slower recovering.
Click to expand...

Wow what a thread!

Do you still have the OS Clutch? I'm considering it
 
It's quite flattering you think the underbelly is clean! I drive it in whatever Socal weather throws at me but I do like to keep it fairly tidy before pulling it into the garage. If you think that's clean, you ought to see some of the NSX's in Socal that are suspected to melt in the rain :) :) :) haha
Hass said:
^ Awesome, I watched it from beginning to end. Very informative, I learned a lot. How often do you wash the underbody? Looks cleaner than my engine bay
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Nice video!

Too bad that other guy had to go on knocking the new NSX. It's hard to believe he was introduced as an engineer... I'm pretty sure any true engineer appreciates all of the work and accomplishments of the new NSX team.

Did you stop using your exhaust? My latest design I've been happy with for the past three years now utilizes titanium, aluminum, SS, and CS. The entire thing is wrapped too. I love it.
 
Thanks guys. I'm uploading more videos on youtube in the effort to share the knowledge I've learned. A lot of that was coached by @Mac Attack himself.

I sold my exhaust to another owner. I had it for maybe 5yrs. It was time to try something else. I miss it. I want to build another valvetronic unit at some point. It would have been fun to go thru that on the MotoIQ video.. if only the timing worked out.
 
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prym8 said:
Loved the video [emoji106]especially all the details shown with your NSX on the lift. It is packed with great info and your car just gets more awesome!

FWIW my OS Giken diff has had Motul 75/140 for a while which works for me, living with a little noise in parking lots and sharp turns from a stop. I know I could have it quieter going heavier on the fluid but this is my sweet spot preserving my synchros. I am curious what your special sauce you come up with so please keep posting here.

Last thing in the Farah review where he says the other white NSX rode smoother, were you on 9k/9k springs? (This is from memory but I can post the timestamp.) Anyway I am on Swift 9k/7k on KWV3 and I like how that works for me on PSC2 tires and admittedly some wannabe racecar delusions. The suspension stuff will always be intriguing especially when you can learn from others experience.

Thanks again for the terrific video.!
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prym8 said:
I have used it for about 6k miles.. only 3 track days but lots of twisties.

Any chance you'd be able to compare (like at nsxpo or a track day) with a someone's diff that's been WPC treated?
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Hi @prym8 - continuing our convo over here. hope you don't mind.

Hope to answer your questions properly here. So I mentioned on the other thread i'm going to try the thinner Redline gear oil. I'm even considering adding some synchromesh with the OSG LSD after @Mac Attack confirmed it was fine on his stock LSD. However, I don't have any support from OSG on this "cocktail". That's when they basically blackballed me and won't respond to any of my emails.. bastards. For the most part i'm fine with the performance of my Motul 75/140 (about 2.5k miles but i'd say 25% track use) but i'd like a bit less thumping on some street slow turns. I'd also like just a tad smoother shifting. Again, this is just fine tuning my car. Most people wouldn't even notice the things owners notice.

Let's talk springs. During the /DRIVE video with Matt Farah I was either on 12k/9k or 11k/9k. I don't recall exactly but the car was setup stiff and sticky. It was also lower with more front neg camber. It was more track prepped than even when I usually do HPDEs. So the car was a bit harsh, no body roll, R-comps, etd... Let's talk about the street settings which is where my car is 90% of the year. I've been bouncing around 9k fronts but either 7k-9k rears. I'm not yet sure where I like my rears to remain going forward. This is where someone like Billy Johnson could really help me. I find pros/cons with it. I liked being on 9k/9k as a street setup for a while but during the shock dyno session last year with JRZ we noticed one of my rear dampers was inconsistent with the other 3. The banjo swivel joint thingy was leaking. So JRZ rebuilt it and we concluded that I should go back to the 9k/7k config and start from scratch again. With this config... I still have a bit of on-throttle understeer but it's better so I know the rebuild helped. I can neutralize the understeer a bit with firming up the rear dampers but that messes with the balance and ride elsewhere (i.e. pros/cons). I don't have any high speed understeer only low speed/on-throttle. I attribute some of this to the extra grip from the OSG LSD. However, with the softer 7k rear springs and the heavier CTSC.. the rear end weight transfer is slightly too much for me. I really don't know and I could be completely talking out of my ass. I didn't experience nearly as much rear squat (i.e. front end lift) with the 9k/9k setup. I think i'm going to try 9k/8k and see how that goes and will stick with this for a while. I'm ordering a Twin Busch scissor lift at some point this year so it might be a while. I can't seem to get a shipper to want to go into my long driveway and into the garage! Worse case, I keep it at 9k/7k. I can still do fairly controlled burnouts with it so still fun.

https://youtu.be/TD7SFGfD5L4

I'm not sure who at XPO will have a WPC LSD. Even if there was one I feel there would be too many variables (Horsepower, Tires, gear ratios, etc) for my small brain to process. However, i'll keep it in mind and see what I can conjure up. Are you going to XPO this year?
 
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