That's why it's difficult to effectively cool supercharged cars, but the Hellcat does and it has a MASSIVE and heavy aftercoolers.
RYU's "properly molested" NSX build thread
- Thread starter RYU
- Start date
Exactly!
I've played around with a variety of mock-ups on engine's here in the shop and superchargers, reversing there locations, LS9 style layouts and such.
A better idea would be a charger mounted in the valley pushing upward trough a cooler towards the velocity stacks.
Packaging it between a NSX cylinder banks is near impossibly with out a fully bespoke casting which is still tricking in the size constraints.
Then you'd have the issue of the rear coolant bridge interference, discussing with my engineer we even contemplated a charger running off the waterpump axle (custom pump).
Again no way of properly getting the casing of the charger to fit.
Methanol is still the easiest way of controlling IAT like Regan is doing.
Sandwiching a big cooler that has a meaning full effectiveness (like Regan pointed out the surface area issue) is tricky and would make it all very tall.
That would in turn add leverage to the crankshaft that is already being ever so slightly lifted by belt tension from the CTSC, can imagine your main bearings liking the idea.
I think the Hellcat has the inverted supercharger design you are talking about for that exact reason. And it works!
We'll the only Honda V6 that works on is a SOHC C engine i've mocked it up but that does requires a LS9 style housing with front intake which isn't easy to come by.
Packaging still tricky (longitudinal engine), in theory would make a awesome torque monster but not applicable to the NSX.
Yes I did, with lots of help from Ryu and install/tune by AutoWave! I'm running the phenolic spacers from AS Motorsport and an AEM injection kit. It's controlled by an AEM Infinity. I have 2 maps, 1 map kicks in if there is an error with the injection. The only issues I've had with the injection were related to a small adjustment needed for the map or if the tank was not 100% full and I was taking fast turns. First track day was at Thunderhill, ambient temp was approx. 95 degree. It's so fun to hit a straight after coming out of the pits and see the IAT drop from 170 to 130 as you accelerate. The only think you need to keep in mind is you carry extra fluid to top up your tank. It's a really simple and easy solution that will never heat soak and help you make more power. Mike @ Autowave guessed them methanol in my mix is good for 15-20 hp. I'm using Boostjuice, which is 50/50 water and meth.
2017 First Track Day (Buttonwillow) Update.
I was living out of a suitcase for all of 2016 and moved to a new home in 2017. I believe my last track day was at Sonoma Oct 2015. The rustiness showed bigtime this weekend. I didn't break 2:13 in 3 sessions @ Buttonwillow (13CW). I'm usually around 2:05-2:10 which is my fun zone. Granted those were on DOT R-comps. I was on 18/19 PSS tires and it's probably going to be my go-to all around setup from now on. The PSS's were great on track. They stayed consistent and didn't chunk. They didn't overheat quickly like I've read online but i'm really not that fast to know yet. Had a blast though. They seem to have gotten louder on the drive home.. so i'll look into the tread wear closer.
It might be close to 2+ yrs since I was last at BW and on my last setup I recall significant understeer around Riverside and the Sweeper. With [MENTION=16531]stuntman[/MENTION]'s help in suggesting a more neutral 9k/9k spring setup and after installing the Type R front undertray the car was much more neutral and FUN (maybe slower?). I had to get use to the PSS's and had hot pressures of 35 psi all around. The tires never really got greasy but the level of grip was noticeably lower but communication better also. Overall, I was a little uneasy with the car because I felt my damping was just too softly set and body movements were slow and delayed. I went out with my street damper settings and the car was wallowy and felt quite floaty especially off the berms, Cotton Corner, and over Phil Hill. It was comfortable and predictable at a certain pace. Once I pushed harder the dampers almost felt slow almost like OEM suspension... then it became NOT confidence inspiring. I only stayed for 3 sessions and on the 3rd session I stiffened up the rebound and it was getting better. The JRZs have a lot of range and this is when the tuning really pays off. More track tuning mandatory... sigh.
The brake fluid has also had better days. Pedal is now pretty spongy. I'll be swapping BBK's soon so I was hoping the years old brake fluid would hold up one last track day - it didn't. The engine and cooling systems were bulletproof yet again. IATs peaked at only 110F under max boost - COOL! Oil temps maxed at 250* with the oil cooler ducting and using NanoProMT additive so i'll have to look into this. 250 is a little high but not worrisome. Engine tune running a tiny bit rich but not sure I want to adjust maps yet. I have a dyno "tune up" session this summer. The audible redline buzzer thingy that Dali Racing use to sell worked great. Why did I wait so long to install that. The S2000 cluster was much easier to drive also vs the old sweep gauges as well. Too bad Harry's Lap Timer could never pair with the GoPro so i'll have to fiddle with that again later. Wheel Alignment felt good and even though i'm rolling over the front tires a little (see pics below). I can only achieve max neg front camber of 1.6* it still didn't understeer... though perhaps i'm net slower because the rear felt looser. I also removed the front compliance clamps. One last note... The OS Giken LSD was amazing. I use to get a lot of inside rear wheel spin coming out of the Off Ramp (T2) but I can pretty much drift that exit on demand there's so much control and was gaining a lot of speed coming out of the turns. I was getting more comfortable putting power down earlier and harder here. This is where I usually catch up with folks I let pass me everywhere else on the track. T2 is my favorite turn at BW.
A lot more track tuning needs to be done... double sigh. Hope Billy can be kind enough to help me/us later this year after the racing season. BTW, We're rooting for you Billy! Bummer about Silverstone pal but good team result!
Front Tire shoulder wear:
Rear Tire shoulder wear:
Best mod, Leftover Pizza warming oven:
Until the next update primates!
I was living out of a suitcase for all of 2016 and moved to a new home in 2017. I believe my last track day was at Sonoma Oct 2015. The rustiness showed bigtime this weekend. I didn't break 2:13 in 3 sessions @ Buttonwillow (13CW). I'm usually around 2:05-2:10 which is my fun zone. Granted those were on DOT R-comps. I was on 18/19 PSS tires and it's probably going to be my go-to all around setup from now on. The PSS's were great on track. They stayed consistent and didn't chunk. They didn't overheat quickly like I've read online but i'm really not that fast to know yet. Had a blast though. They seem to have gotten louder on the drive home.. so i'll look into the tread wear closer.
It might be close to 2+ yrs since I was last at BW and on my last setup I recall significant understeer around Riverside and the Sweeper. With [MENTION=16531]stuntman[/MENTION]'s help in suggesting a more neutral 9k/9k spring setup and after installing the Type R front undertray the car was much more neutral and FUN (maybe slower?). I had to get use to the PSS's and had hot pressures of 35 psi all around. The tires never really got greasy but the level of grip was noticeably lower but communication better also. Overall, I was a little uneasy with the car because I felt my damping was just too softly set and body movements were slow and delayed. I went out with my street damper settings and the car was wallowy and felt quite floaty especially off the berms, Cotton Corner, and over Phil Hill. It was comfortable and predictable at a certain pace. Once I pushed harder the dampers almost felt slow almost like OEM suspension... then it became NOT confidence inspiring. I only stayed for 3 sessions and on the 3rd session I stiffened up the rebound and it was getting better. The JRZs have a lot of range and this is when the tuning really pays off. More track tuning mandatory... sigh.
The brake fluid has also had better days. Pedal is now pretty spongy. I'll be swapping BBK's soon so I was hoping the years old brake fluid would hold up one last track day - it didn't. The engine and cooling systems were bulletproof yet again. IATs peaked at only 110F under max boost - COOL! Oil temps maxed at 250* with the oil cooler ducting and using NanoProMT additive so i'll have to look into this. 250 is a little high but not worrisome. Engine tune running a tiny bit rich but not sure I want to adjust maps yet. I have a dyno "tune up" session this summer. The audible redline buzzer thingy that Dali Racing use to sell worked great. Why did I wait so long to install that. The S2000 cluster was much easier to drive also vs the old sweep gauges as well. Too bad Harry's Lap Timer could never pair with the GoPro so i'll have to fiddle with that again later. Wheel Alignment felt good and even though i'm rolling over the front tires a little (see pics below). I can only achieve max neg front camber of 1.6* it still didn't understeer... though perhaps i'm net slower because the rear felt looser. I also removed the front compliance clamps. One last note... The OS Giken LSD was amazing. I use to get a lot of inside rear wheel spin coming out of the Off Ramp (T2) but I can pretty much drift that exit on demand there's so much control and was gaining a lot of speed coming out of the turns. I was getting more comfortable putting power down earlier and harder here. This is where I usually catch up with folks I let pass me everywhere else on the track. T2 is my favorite turn at BW.
A lot more track tuning needs to be done... double sigh. Hope Billy can be kind enough to help me/us later this year after the racing season. BTW, We're rooting for you Billy! Bummer about Silverstone pal but good team result!
Front Tire shoulder wear:
Rear Tire shoulder wear:
Best mod, Leftover Pizza warming oven:
Until the next update primates!
What were the comp and rebound settings from full soft?? IE: comp 8/12 & rebound 10/16
And what do u run in the street?
And what do u run in the street?
Wait so you're running identical spring rates f/r similar to the kw v3 and cs's for our cars? I'm getting mixed feedback, some prefer a higher rate spring up front for a neutral car and some prefer even.
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Street/canyon settings I'm within + 1-2 clicks of rebound of the below street/canyon settings depending on the terrain. See Session 2 below. I normally don't touch compression. These are the settings that feel the most compliant, have reduced bounce, zero harshness above 35mph. Its a very very nice ride and even better than a 12C in normal mode. It's also the settings that feel as if the front stroke frequency is the same as the rear. I really struggle with harmonizing front and rear dampers as it relates to body movement. So I really would love a trusted 2nd opinion.
At BW here's what occured.
Session 1: I went off all 4 wheels coming over Phil Hill... On lap 2. Part of it was completely misjudging my entry speed and poor line selection. I basically straight lined it and had zero traction coming over the hill. Instead of putting the car in a bad situation I just rode it into the dirt and found a clean line out. No damage done except to ego but I was black flagged and session was done. I later found out the front passenger damper was at full open 0/0 rebound/compression after its last service at JRZ. This session was in the garbage.
Session 2:. I reset the dampers to my preferred street setting. This is when I confirmed suspension felt floaty and lethargic on track.
Front R/C
7/2
Rear R/C
8/4
Session 3:. Improved a bit with the slightly stiffer settings below but car still didn't feel as responsive. It was still like a Cadillac on the berms say... In the esses. Still felt in control and quite nice if I kept the speed in check. Body movement felt too slow to inspire me to go faster and toss the car around more aggressively. Steering felt great though so I can't say it's alignment.
Front R/C
9/3
Rear
10/5
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All I can say is... When you're fine tuning you can only use what others say as a baseline. I started with 11k/9k. Then 9k/7k. Now 9k/9k feels pretty good without sacrificing ride quality. Tire selection, sway bars, springs, dampers, your cars overall weight, and weight bias.... everything matters. Spring rate is just one piece of the puzzle.
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Absolutely, but gota get into the right ballpark to avoid wasting time with fine tunning in the wrong area. That rate seems close to Cs range. Have you run your current setup on sticker tires like sportscup2?
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Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
I've been in the "ballpark" for 5yrs or more 
It's a big ballpark
It's a big ballpark
Project car problems... Everytime I get done with a mod and adjustments, I gain another level of respect for the OE engineers.
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Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
Please give me the range of adjustment. IE:
FRONT
Compression: 5/10 means setting 5 out of 10 possible settings
Rebound: 7/12 means setting 7 out of a range of 12 clicks.
REAR
Compression: 4/10
Rebound: 5/12
Do the above for your street and track settings.
FRONT
Compression: 5/10 means setting 5 out of 10 possible settings
Rebound: 7/12 means setting 7 out of a range of 12 clicks.
REAR
Compression: 4/10
Rebound: 5/12
Do the above for your street and track settings.
I have nothing to contribute but thanks for Ryu for giving me a ride in the infamous car. It feels great. I love the power and debating on adding FI to my car at some point.
Thanks for your help Billy.
These JRZs have the following range of "clicks". 0 = full soft/open, 10 (compression) or 22 (rebound) is full firm/stiff
Compression 0-10 clicks
Rebound 0-22 clicks.
NOTE: The detents appear to be evenly spaced out and they feel a little wider compared to the Ohlins on my S2000.
Session 2: Street Settings
Front Compression - 2 out of possible 10
Front Rebound - 7 out of possible 22
Rear Compression - 4 out of possible 10
Rear Rebound - 8 out of possible 22
Session 3:
Front Compression - 3 out of possible 10
Front Rebound - 9 out of possible 22
Rear Compression - 5 out of possible 10
Rear Rebound - 10 out of possible 22
Glad you had a good time! As you can see i'm pretty cautious out there
(my excuse for being slow)You did help me test the new front bumpstops I installed. No more front tire rub and it didn't seem to upset the suspension with over +400lbs of human in the car! So thanks for your help there Richard.
He hasn't given me settings yet
hahaI'm on the Dali Track front bar. Zanardi rear bar. The overall balance of the car feels great from a weight transfer and understeer/oversteer point of view. Though on the later, i'm not sure if my setup is the fastest and I guess I don't really care too much about being the fastest as I prefer playful and predictable instead. My issue at the moment is the response of the chassis on track. In the canyons/street it's got a great balance of compliant comfort and predictability/toss-ability. It feels too floaty and slow to be confidence inspiring at the track however - frankly I was surprised how different it felt this time around. I'm almost certain it's the damper settings but i'm also not doubting my rusty driving skills. I'm down about 5 secs of my PB on prior stiffer springs and DOT R-comps..
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During this process I realized my setup is different enough from most NSXs. My car is roughly 2800lbs but that's with a full air lift kit, Recaros, valvetronic exhaust, and heavy blower so my weight balance is likely different enough.
Glad to hear you're enjoying her Regan!
Have you tried disconnecting the rear sway bar yet? It just takes a few minutes to unbolt and tie everything out of the way. With a little fiddling, you may like it. Or not.
Have you tried disconnecting the rear sway bar yet? It just takes a few minutes to unbolt and tie everything out of the way. With a little fiddling, you may like it. Or not.
I really am having a lot of fun with the NSX. More than ever actually. Lots of happy all around.
No, I haven't tried disconnecting the rear bar but my last mod (stiffer rear springs) I actually liked more than prior (softer rear springs). Do you think i'd still like disconnecting? Wouldn't that make my prior understeer problems much worse? I'm so anti getting under the car during track days haha.
I don't recommend initially doing it during a track day - just a fun run through the mountains where you can adjust dampening a bit too. Then you can determine if its a track-worthy experiment.
It's probably best not to make a dissertation here on vehicle dynamics and then others jump in and start arguing on why I'm wrong. Let's just say there have been some fast track NSX setups without rear sways. Fast Elise/Exige's too.
Just try it. It's quick and won't cost you anything!
It's probably best not to make a dissertation here on vehicle dynamics and then others jump in and start arguing on why I'm wrong. Let's just say there have been some fast track NSX setups without rear sways. Fast Elise/Exige's too.
Just try it. It's quick and won't cost you anything!
I simply mean that the work it takes to fine tune each component on a car particularly something as pivotal to handling dynamics and Driver engagement as suspension tunning. The seat time and expertise required to do it well instills a new level of respect.
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Who valved your dampers?
If it's a typical JRZ valving, you should be over the half way mark on track. Your likely way under damped and your floaty comments seem to confirm this.
I would set your compression at 7/10 front and rear and rebound at 15/22 front and rear and then adjust accordingly.
Entry oversteer? - go down on rear rebound
Exit oversteer? - go down on rear compression
Front end "skipping"? - go down on front compression
Understeering mid corner? - go down on front rebound
It's likely you're slower a little bit from the tire, but probably more from being under damped and having the car move around and not be as precise as your stiffer spring setup. Try those settings and you'll have a lot more platform and security and it should be a lot more responsive, stable, and predictable with less perceived roll.
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