Oil change nightmare?

They had just put in Mobil 1 and also I put prolong in 8K ago.

Is anyone going to answer my question about:

If Acrua gives it a clean bill of health with no fixes, would you buy today?

I know it's a tough one...but be honest. :confused:
 
Stiddy said:
They had just put in Mobil 1 and also I put prolong in 8K ago.

Is anyone going to answer my question about:

If Acrua gives it a clean bill of health with no fixes, would you buy today?

I know it's a tough one...but be honest. :confused:
Click to expand...


Depends which Acura Dealer, if it was Davis Acura, or Bridgewater Acura, yes, I don't know that dealer or their rep, so unless I did, the answer wouldn't be yes!!!!!! JMHO
 
Stiddy said:
...If Acrua gives it a clean bill of health with no fixes, would you buy today?...
Click to expand...

If you wanted to be honest and tell a buyer what happened, and if that buyer was me, I'd pass on buying the car. Sorry. :frown:
 
i would have to agree... i wouldnt be so prone to purchase today, but rather over time after its proven that the motor is alright
Chris
 
Stiddy said:
They had just put in Mobil 1 and also I put prolong in 8K ago.

Is anyone going to answer my question about:

If Acrua gives it a clean bill of health with no fixes, would you buy today?

I know it's a tough one...but be honest. :confused:
Click to expand...
If you truly idled down the moment the light came on, quickly shut it down after that, and the top end exam comes back fine, then I would buy it without hesitation.

If you weren't up above 5000 rpms when the light came on, and you shut it down right away, I wouldn't sweat it at all. I've had loss of oil pressure events happen to three of my vehicles over the years (luckely not while pushing them hard), and drove each of them 50k to 120k miles after each event without a problem. I agree with some of the people above, in that if you were riding it hard at the time of the event, you may be looking at a top end rebuild at the least and a full rebuild at the most.

Forget the Prolong, but as long as you were using Mobil 1 Synthetic and shut it right down, then I honestly wouldn't be too worried about this at all. I'd be totally pissed at myself for going to that place to have my oil changed, but I wouldn't be too concerned about major engine damage. Let's not forget one of the reasons many of us chose an NSX over other sport/exotic cars, "Its a Honda, and Hondas always take a ton of abuse and still keep on running like a top." :wink: JMHO
 
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I agree with dnicho05. I once broke an external oil cooler line on my Cuda during a quarter mile race, back when my oil pressure light was a little less than adequate. I don't know how many seconds the light was on during the race, but I shut the engine off once I saw it. Well, being a relatively poor kid, I just repaired the line, put oil back in it with a new filter, and started driving and racing it again. Granted Stiddy, I may have shut off the car sooner than you did upon seeing the oil light, but I was under full load and high rpms when it happened, and my hard-driven 440 is still fine to this day (12 years later). I've had my valvetrain apart since then, and it looked perfect.

I know, the NSX engine is different from my 440. But oil adherence behavior should be similar for both engines, all applicable factors being equal, and despite the specific application of the metal substrates.

In summary, I believe your car will be fine. And for God's sake, take your car to my house to change the oil, instead of some minimum wage non-enthusiast lube place. I would be happy to teach you how to do this maintenance step yourself. :smile:
 
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I have a very bad, silly advice, but It might save thousands of troubles that anyone encouter this situation...

If you took your car for oil change, once you stop the car and found out that oil leaking from drain plug, oil filter...etc etc... keep driving it or revving it until the engine die... So They will get you the new engine... I'm sick and tired of these people can't even do these simple things right. Not to mention I have seen they put lowest grade inadequet oil filter and drain plugs, they don't tightened it with torque wrench... oh wait, I forgot, they don't even tight it with their oily fingers. :mad: They must have been trained and have procedures for changing oil, it blew my mind that they must "screw" the plug back by hand, or tools, how hard is it to tighten it???

STiddy, seems like the acura dealership did enough damage to your situation. Finger pointing wars might have already been started... I will at least have the oil change company pay for your top end inspection, and then forcing your dealership doing a through inspection job. Simply putting oil and claim it sounded "fine/ Ok" is ignorant. Again, I'm sorry to hear your mishap.
 
I'm not a complete car idiot. I know how to change oil in a car. As for the place I went to...the nearest Acura or Honda dealer is 40 min. away. I really thought these guys were ok. I've taken my NSX there before.

NSXDreamer2 said:
"I will at least have the oil change company pay for your top end inspection, and then forcing your dealership doing a through inspection job. Simply putting oil and claim it sounded "fine/ Ok" is ignorant. Again, I'm sorry to hear your mishap."

They are paying for the inspection, however, if I had said nothing, I am certain Acura would have let me drive the car home. I know... it steams me too.

Regarding this talk about frying the engine being the answer to all my problems. Your right, it may have made things easier, but I would not be able to live with all the lying I would have to do. Call me what you will, I don't like lying. Fortunately for me (and I hope it doesn't come to this) I am in the entertainment/media business and have many contacts in the area. Several millions of dollars was spent airing my commercials last year. I can make one phone call and a news crew would be on this "oil changers" doorstep.

Let's hope everyone involved does the right thing. Let's hope I can figure out what the right thing is!

An update on the car:

They've taken the valve covers off and looked. Everything seems to be ok there. Next, they're digging a little deeper. Thanks to "NSXTech" for his suggestions. I forwarded them to the dealer. They will remove the pan, etc. A friend of mine suggested I take the oil filter in a plastic bag and send to a place to analyze the oil. That is the best way to know if there is any metal.


This may sound strange but my biggest fear is that they find nothing wrong. Based on some of the posts here, something (however unlikely) could happen several thousand miles later. Not to mention, the many people who would not buy the car even if Acura gives it a clean bill of health.

I'll know more tomorrow or Monday. I would like to add to my question.

"If Acrua gives it a clean bill of health with no fixes, would you buy today?"

If you would buy, what kind of discount, if any, would you want?

I'm trying to prepare myself for the oil changers' insurance adjuster calling on Monday.
 
One more thing I forgot to mention which I find quite funny.

While at the dealer the service tech said to me:

"Make the insurance company buy yours, and buy the brand new blue one on the showroom floor"

These car guys have a one track mind. :biggrin:
 
I am a claims manager for an independent adjusting firm and we do a lot of business with commercial general liability carriers, so we get these sort of claims from time to time.

The last one was on a 94 sentra with like 140k miles on it, oil change place put the wrong filter on there and a mile down the road it blew off. Claimant only got about a mile from the oil change place when it happened. She pulled over right away when the light came on. Towed to a dealership. They inspected the engine and found no damage. The carrier paid the 500 or so bucks for the inspection, but she was insistent that the engine was totaled inspite of her own dealer telling her there was no damage. Her claim for the new engine was denied, so she has filed suit in small claims court, so we'll see how that goes.

The latest one we had was for a Mitsubishi Fuzo(delivery type truck) Claimant says the insured failed to put the seal on the oil filter, 4500 miles later the low pressure light comes on and there is only about 2 quarts of oil. Motor was pretty toasted, 12k in damages. Investigation still pending on that one since there is some fishy stuff involved.

If the oil change place has been good on paying the bills to date that is good, if not you need to file a claim with their carrier.

Hope everything works out.

Charlire
 
Stiddy said:
"If Acrua gives it a clean bill of health with no fixes, would you buy today?"

If you would buy, what kind of discount, if any, would you want?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't buy now nor later nor at any discount unless I could purchase a lifetime warranty in which I would be 100% confident that an engine failure would be covered.
 
Regarding this talk about frying the engine being the answer to all my problems. Your right, it may have made things easier, but I would not be able to live with all the lying I would have to do. Call me what you will, I don't like lying
Click to expand...
. nothing wrong with that :) I Admired you. Yes, that's why I called my suggestion silly and bad.

It really depends on how you see it, should you not know this much about the low oil level light, (a lot of people drives their car only "look" at the speedo, and I bet if my wife's car had a check engine light on, she would have kept driving it until she find time to call me and ask me what's up with that.) In those cases, the car would be driven until the engine's fried or even at the point of having/ causing accidents. Seems like the additional knowledge you have panalyzed you and potentially leads you to a potential big financial loss, more importantly taking you time to deal with all these... That's where I'm from, that's all.
 
Your right, ignorance in this case could have saved me and cost them thousands. I am so sick of hearing people say "What can you prove in court" when they already know the truth.

The problem has been around a long time but It seems to have gotten worse after hearing the Clintons seeming to say on a daily basis during his administration:

"We're going to wait and see how the facts turn out."

How convienent. The FACT is:

Had I not gone to this place I wouldn't be having this problem. Some would also argue I should have never posted this problem on NSX Prime. Now every one knows and there's no hiding if I should decide to sell. Not telling a potential buyer what has happened, I find disgusting. The people on this site are amazing and should I decide to sell my car, I want the person buying it to enjoy it as much as I have. I'm just not sure I can enjoy my NSX as much now not knowing enough about just how serious this is. Maybe someone with a better understanding could drive the car with no worries. I am not there yet.

Today has worn me out. I'm tired of dealing with people I feel I can't trust. I can't tell you how many times I heard "I don't know" at the Acura dealership today. Those of you following this thread can see I am far from an NSX expert. Can you imagine me asking a service guy a question and him saying "I don't know" Is this the world we live in or is it just California?

I'm done venting...good night
 
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you should have them drop the oil pan as well as a top end inspection, the first area to starve for oil will be the main bearings and connecting rod bearings above the drian plug, they are the first to go dry due to the lack of oil. The last inspection I had performed this kid with an rsx brought his car in with a knock in the engine we found no oil in the motor #1 bearing was intact #2 bearing didnot exist it was in the bottom of the pan #3 bearing was very blue and starting to spin # 4 bearing slight discoloration also main bearings and caps were blue closest to the drain plug all indication of overheating consistant with lack of lubrication, also note inspectioin of the top end showed slight wear on the cam lobe as well but the most damage was done to the bottom end any oil in the pan would have been picked up by the pump and distributed to the top end and the bottom end to go dry first.

I would not be satisfied until I was completly sure there was no engine damage and a guarantee from the shop and the insurance carrier that they will accept liabilty if there should be some sort of engine failure resulting from the shops negligence. the later part will be more difficult to achieve than it sounds but we are not talking about a toyota camry or a Honda Accord.
 
Stiddy said:
This may sound strange but my biggest fear is that they find nothing wrong. Based on some of the posts here, something (however unlikely) could happen several thousand miles later. Not to mention, the many people who would not buy the car even if Acura gives it a clean bill of health.
Click to expand...
If it were my car, and an Acura dealer with a lot of NSX experience (Niello?), I would be delighted if they found nothing wrong. I would just move on - forget about it, and continue to enjoy the car. S**t happens, but you just need to get over it.

In a similar vein, I had some road debris cause a dent resulting in a hood replacement on my car. It was no longer "pristine"... but I didn't let it prevent me from enjoying the car. And I don't agonize over whether its market value may have been reduced. The NSX is for enjoyment, not for worrying about!

Stiddy said:
"If Acrua gives it a clean bill of health with no fixes, would you buy today?"
Click to expand...
Today? Probably not. In six months? Sure, absolutely.

Stiddy said:
Today has worn me out. I'm tired of dealing with people I feel I can't trust. I can't tell you how many times I heard "I don't know" at the Acura dealership today. Those of you following this thread can see I am far from an NSX expert. Can you imagine me asking a service guy a question and him saying "I don't know" Is this the world we live in or is it just California?
Click to expand...
It's the world we live in. Often, things are not just cut and dried. It's quite possible that they really DON'T know something, until they open up the various parts of the engine (per Mark's advice). There may be things they still don't know after that. We are talking about a very complex machine. And sometimes there are probabilities; something might happen, but it might not. A good mechanic recognizes that, and tells you when there's something he's not sure of.

Relax, and stop worrying about it. Let them see if they can find anything wrong. If they can't, it's over. Go for a long drive on a country road, and start smiling again.
 
Stiddy said:
update:

Left the car at the dealership.

They put oil in it and started the engine. Said "sounds fine" recommended inspecting top end.

Contacted oil change place... they have accepted responsibility... for now. Have offered to pay top end inspection, but mentioned if engine needs work investigation will have to be done...
Click to expand...


Be sure and get a FULL internal inspection of that engine done. DO NOT just take the 'sounds fine' answer as a final judgement. A couple of years ago on my '91 NSX we had a slight noise coming from the engine. It was very slight, but I noticed it. The car was taken to the dealer, they did a very surface inspection and said 'sounds fine'. BIG MISTAKE!! Within a year I was back with no oil pressure, my engine was messed up, and I left with a bill for OVER $10,000!! They would not cover the repairs eventhough they admitted it was probably caused by the noise I had them inspect before. ARGH!! :mad:
 
Stiddy said:
I'm just not sure I can enjoy my NSX as much now not knowing enough about just how serious this is. Maybe someone with a better understanding could drive the car with no worries. I am not there yet.
Click to expand...

You have had your image of perfection shattered and that is hard to get back. The first time a car lets you down (or the people who work on it), it takes a while to get the confidence back.

Speaking from experience, the feeling does come back, but it takes time. I had the top end of my engine rebuilt about 12k miles ago, and it honestly feels stronger than it was before, but it took some time for me to get used to it.

Of course, my confidence is greatly increased by the quality of the folks who work on my car (the incomparable John Vasos and Acura of Brookfield). Find service like that and you will sleep easier.
 
Skiddy, I have alot of additional important info for you on this, based on
dozens of NSX motors overhauled, and at least a dozen Honda motors of all ages, sizes, colors, creeds, and sexual identities which were paid for by the insurance companies of Speedy Lube, Minute Lube, You Lube, I Lube, and of course, We Sometimes Lube.
Seriously, I have a bit of experience on this, but I type sooo slowly and am very busy. Hopefully, I will find time soon to share it with the group , but you need to know it now.

shop- 480 968 8010
cell- 602 312 6877,
if you would like to talk.

Good Luck,
MB
 
MIKE5261 had a good point about inspecting the bottom end if that's a likely location for damage due to no oil. The insurance co. has already agreed to pay for a top-end inspection and it shouldn't take much to convince them that a bottom-end inspection is needed too. If the inspection finds no sign of damage, it would seem reasonable that no significant damage has been done. I can't imagine that an insurance company (or any business owner) would agree to pay for undetectable / undocumented damage in the thousands of dollars.

Obviously intentionally running an engine after it has triggered is going to be expensive but if the damage is certain before the switch is triggered, I have to wonder why Honda didn't include other safeguards. They could have set the switch at 20 psig instead of 5, or they could have included a low level switch. The intent of any failure instrumentation is to make the operator stop the engine immediately. Stiddy did that.

Stiddy, good luck with things and hope they turn out to your satisfaction.
 
Latest Update:

I cannot thank fellow NSXers here on Prime enough. I had to learn a great deal in a short amount of time. A special thanks goes to NSXTech for talking with me this morning to give me a quick education of what may have happened and how to check. He also educated me on rod bearings, the unique characteristics of them in NSX's, etc.

Had I not put this post on NSXPrime, I may have driven my car home after the Acura crew put oil in it and said "it sounds fine",only to have it blow up several thousand miles later. That's right I finally have an answer.

Due to the inspection I requested, or should I say demanded, by your recommendations, a problem was found. Some bearings showed signs of oil starvation. So, most certainly, there will be other signs to come. The top end inspection did not show any problems. Without you, I know I would not have had the lower end inspected. Thank you, Thank you, Thank you.

I will now begin the process getting this fixed. It as been recommended I get my car out of Acura ASAP and take it to Comptech, which is in my area.

But first, I have to deal with the oil changers insurance.

I'll keep you posted.

Many, Many, Many thanks,

Stiddy :smile:
 
Stiddy, I'm so happy for you that you seems to get the whole thing straighten out!!!

Big Thank You to nsxtech, seems like he is just one of another person I found to respect; it's people like you who make this society so special, and, I'm proud of being one of the nsx prime family...
 

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