NSX Slow?
- Thread starter lazyboyz69
- Start date
Lots of people in this thread have clearly never had an NSX on a track (a real track, with turns, not 1/4 mile) an NSX on the track is absolutely fantastic.
But no, lets complain that it's underpowered and whether or not it's an "exotic" and make no mention of the handling.
But no, lets complain that it's underpowered and whether or not it's an "exotic" and make no mention of the handling.
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I have a few I'd love to have in my garrage if I had 2 lifts so I could park underneath. A 997.2 S - bet that's what you meant - although for me it would be a Targa 4S - the .2 referrence gets you the new DFI engine! That's the only one to get. All the others have potential issues and I don't care how slight the percentages are for getting the wrong one - I know I'd get it...
. The Ferrari - well I'd love to be able to afford to maintain one but that's not gonna happen. Hard enough to maintain a newer 911 - the tires alone are a huge difference over the NSX! But as I was reading: someone brought up the idea that all these folks talking the slow aspects of the NSX haven't had them on a track where the handling really shines. I can tell you I've driven my 993 around town on the same twisty roads I've taken the NSX on and the NSX is faster! It handles great so I can only imagine what having one on a track would be like. I'd love to do that this year - not to thrash to badly but just to experience driving without worry of lights, driveways, and mini vans. I did not buy my car to show it off so someone would say: "wow man, great car" - no - I bought my car to drive it and enjoy the thrill of driving around the twisty roads here in and around Atlanta and belive me it's more like mountain roads that I enjoy. I'm not a danger to others but I do pick my times for "spirited" excursions. Those that don't may not be comfortable driving like that - they may have only had one other sports car or not.
These guys with their Vipers and Vettes want to experience straight line power and burn outs or drifting or street light to street light madness - I knew guys like that in college and highschool. There are a lot of young "guns" on Prime now and they are consumed with "thrust" and rumpty rump v8s etc. I'm sorry - not dissing them particularly - but you see I grew up with my first car being a TR3 - went from there - I'm 60 now - been down the sports car route for a long time and I have a little different perspective on all this stuff than many. Not to mention I don't live in a flat area with bunches of grid type city layouts and straight roads - thankfully. Like many do - No Atlanta and our state in general is full of roads like the Dragons Tail. So sports car handling is something I've been after all my life - light, nimble, fun to drive handling cars - not big muscle or cars that have big V8s and have historically struggled to handle.
It's only been recently with few exceptions that our big muscle V8 "sports cars" have finally gotten to be good/great handling machines. In 91 - I dare say there just weren't any other than the cobra and it's derivitives on the track when they took on Ferrari and won. Still today we're doing well in those races. But most guys that have that raw power don't know how to handle it on the street. It can get you in trouble big time but the NSX and cars like that - 911s, R8s, and others, are made for tight courses and have been ever since they were built. In their class they, well 911s, set the pace along with Ferrari - then come along the NSX! Pretty damn amazing.
If we have to explain this to some - well that's fine but - it's history too. As the old saying goes and it's true to a certain degree - it's a whole lot more fun to drive a "slow" car fast than a real fast one slow. The diff between the NSX and a Viper for example. We can have all the fun we want in our NA NSX. That's the bottom line - if this isn't something that might occur to some then most likely they just may want to brag about what they have. Most don't get on tracks - so I ask you what the hell do you do with a Viper on the street or a Vette- with soft ole funky seats that don't support properly and ole funky interiors. Just to hear the power that you can't use? Waisted on me. And the NSX may be waisted on them.
^ well said 
You go Tim!
Excellent post,
I have a few I'd love to have in my garrage if I had 2 lifts so I could park underneath. A 997.2 S - bet that's what you meant - although for me it would be a Targa 4S - the .2 referrence gets you the new DFI engine! That's the only one to get. All the others have potential issues and I don't care how slight the percentages are for getting the wrong one - I know I'd get it...
But as I was reading: someone brought up the idea that all these folks talking the slow aspects of the NSX haven't had them on a track where the handling really shines. I can tell you I've driven my 993 around town on the same twisty roads I've taken the NSX on and the NSX is faster! It handles great so I can only imagine what having one on a track would be like. I'd love to do that this year - not to thrash to badly but just to experience driving without worry of lights, driveways, and mini vans. I did not buy my car to show it off so someone would say: "wow man, great car" - no - I bought my car to drive it and enjoy the thrill of driving around the twisty roads here in and around Atlanta and belive me it's more like mountain roads that I enjoy. I'm not a danger to others but I do pick my times for "spirited" excursions. Those that don't may not be comfortable driving like that - they may have only had one other sports car or not.
These guys with their Vipers and Vettes want to experience straight line power and burn outs or drifting or street light to street light madness - I knew guys like that in college and highschool. There are a lot of young "guns" on Prime now and they are consumed with "thrust" and rumpty rump v8s etc. I'm sorry - not dissing them particularly - but you see I grew up with my first car being a TR3 - went from there - I'm 60 now - been down the sports car route for a long time and I have a little different perspective on all this stuff than many. Not to mention I don't live in a flat area with bunches of grid type city layouts and straight roads - thankfully. Like many do - No Atlanta and our state in general is full of roads like the Dragons Tail. So sports car handling is something I've been after all my life - light, nimble, fun to drive handling cars - not big muscle or cars that have big V8s and have historically struggled to handle.
It's only been recently with few exceptions that our big muscle V8 "sports cars" have finally gotten to be good/great handling machines. In 91 - I dare say there just weren't any other than the cobra and it's derivitives on the track when they took on Ferrari and won. Still today we're doing well in those races. But most guys that have that raw power don't know how to handle it on the street. It can get you in trouble big time but the NSX and cars like that - 911s, R8s, and others, are made for tight courses and have been ever since they were built. In their class they, well 911s, set the pace along with Ferrari - then come along the NSX! Pretty damn amazing.
If we have to explain this to some - well that's fine but - it's history too. As the old saying goes and it's true to a certain degree - it's a whole lot more fun to drive a "slow" car fast than a real fast one slow. The diff between the NSX and a Viper for example. We can have all the fun we want in our NA NSX. That's the bottom line - if this isn't something that might occur to some then most likely they just may want to brag about what they have. Most don't get on tracks - so I ask you what the hell do you do with a Viper on the street or a Vette- with soft ole funky seats that don't support properly and ole funky interiors. Just to hear the power that you can't use? Waisted on me. And the NSX may be waisted on them.
The NSX is not slow its deceivingly fast. There is no kick in the ass just solid acceleration from 2500 - 8000 RPM when you look down and say how the hell did I get going that fast.
The NSX is also very reliable and the maintenance cost is quite low even comparing to the like of Porsche and BMW.
I take my NSX out on track fairly regularly (though not as much as I would like to at the moment) and it IS fast and fun! To be honest though, I have been passed by race civics and miatas. Are they faster? Apparently. Would I trade my NSX for someones Spec miata? Never in a million years.
Driving my NSX on track and on the street is one of the most special feelings for ME. I love cruising the streets up and down CA enjoying the level of comfort and luxury that the NSx offers as well as its ability to stick the long orange needle to 90+ without my girlfriend (or myself) noticing. Is the NSX for everyone? This forum has answered that one hundred thousand times over; No. The NSX is a unique and irreplacable car for some very particular drivers, I feel that I am one of those lucky drivers.
I need the precision, power and balance that Honda built the NSX with to really try, improve and enhance my driving experience. I strive with every mod and adjustment that I make to my '92 to maintain that balance and worry that one day I will have gone too far.
For ME, the NSX was my perfect automotive match. Decide for yourself.
Driving my NSX on track and on the street is one of the most special feelings for ME. I love cruising the streets up and down CA enjoying the level of comfort and luxury that the NSx offers as well as its ability to stick the long orange needle to 90+ without my girlfriend (or myself) noticing. Is the NSX for everyone? This forum has answered that one hundred thousand times over; No. The NSX is a unique and irreplacable car for some very particular drivers, I feel that I am one of those lucky drivers.
I need the precision, power and balance that Honda built the NSX with to really try, improve and enhance my driving experience. I strive with every mod and adjustment that I make to my '92 to maintain that balance and worry that one day I will have gone too far.
For ME, the NSX was my perfect automotive match. Decide for yourself.
- Joined
- 14 March 2011
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Excellent posts from the NSX owners. I am shopping around for one and think the NSX is a work of art (and excellent car). I lost all the desire for excessive power after having a vehicle like that and then realizing I never did anything remotely close to requiring that much power, or much power at all. I drive normally and do not get on tracks. The point being brought up that the NSX does not give you that kick or whiplash feel is actually a plus for the NSX, in my opinion.
Thanks for the great forum everyone!
Thanks for the great forum everyone!
whoa whoa now your going on the total opposite of the spectrum. We never said that it didn't matter if the nsx was fast or not. We just mentioned that the nsx is more than fast enough for us esp for the ones who take it on the track. The car at its limit is higher than what most normal people ( non professional racers ) can reach. Esp with choice mods such as modern tires in larger sizes.
^ what Tat said! Amen. It is fast in my book - just not a torque monster. I dare say most cannot drive the car anywhere near it's potential - surely not like the racers on Youtube. The guys that are professionals - like Senna - man we all wish we could drive like that! Most of us aren't even anywhere remotely within that reach. This car will give you all you can handle - well for most of us that is. Heck all those great times at the ring - remember they're all with an NA car.....not sc'd or tc'd. So if you can't drive like Senna - guess maybe having a little more straight line ooomph might help you against the other amateurs with more hp. If you can really drive - you don't need it. Spend your money on driving instruction if you ever want to get somewhat serious. That's what I hope to do someday - get some real race instruction. Learn how to heel toe properly - make sure to not overshoot the arc with too much speed. Stuff like that. Those are the things that get you in trouble.
The difference that I notice when your comparing the pro drivers such as Billy Johnson and the Pros you see in the Japanese Best Motoring videos are that they are almost always on the throttle. They can control the car so well that they get on the throttle almost immediately. Its like they have no fear, they drive aggressive yet smooth. When you see a amateur video of people driving NSX, they spend a lot more time coasting or just doesn't seem to drive with as much commitment.
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+1. And I would add that Billy Johnson has clocked an absolutely incredible 1:18.5 lap time at Willow Springs Int'l Raceway (the big track, not Streets) in the FX time attack NSX. I doubt if anyone has run a Porsche or Ferrari within 5 seconds of that time. It's an open wheel race car lap time.
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I know that the NSX is plenty fast. I was not intending to mean that it was not. :smile: I am not here to bash the NSX. I am a fan of it.
Well I was referring to Billy driving his personal nsx which is near stock lol. The Japanese pro driver's are drive the stock NSX quit hard in the super lap battles ( of course most the races are rigged anyways so I'm only basing the speed on fastest lap time ). Of course his Factor X time attack car is a beast and the fastest 2WD unlimited car there is.
Here is Billy in his personal near stock NSX he is a beast
<iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640" height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Kzq-Itme0s4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
non of us can drive our nsx like that so until we can, I don't think there is a need to add more power.
He ran a 2:01 in Buttonwillow Config 13, remember this is one and only lap. He probably could have gone faster if he had a few more.
here are the lap times his car is competitive with according to http://www.fastestlaps.com/tracks/buttonwillow_configuration_13.html
Lap times (11)
Pos Make / Model Time Year Power (hp) / Weight (kg) Driven by
1. Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR 1:55.70 '08 600 / 1536 Car and Driver
2. Nissan GT-R 1:56.90 '08 479 / 1740 Steve Millen Road &T
3. Porsche 997 GT2 1:59.70 '07 530 / 1440 Car and Driver
4. Noble M400 2:00.40 '05 425 / 960 Car and driver
5. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 2:01.00 '05 513 / 1437 Car and Driver
6. Porsche 997 GT3 2:01.50 '06 415 / 1395 Car and Driver
7. Chevrolet Corvette Grand Sport C6 2:02.09 '10 436 / 1542 Car and Driver
8. Porsche 997 Turbo 2:02.10 '06 480 / 1585 Road and Track
9. Honda S2000 2:03.50 '99 239 / 1260 Charles Ng
10. Porsche Cayman S(facelift) PDK 2:05.01 '08 320 / 1375 Car and Driver
11. Lotus Evora 2:07.00 '10 280 / 1398 Car and Driver
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Here are bunch more times that show cars like a C5 Z06 with a 1:54, another C5 Z06 with a 1:57. Most would agree that the new Z06 is a much faster car than the C5. The only way you could get a lap time that would be comparable between cars would be to have equal drivers in them on the same day (equal conditions). I know from our local track days that a 997 GT3 would walk all over a stock NSX at the track - so would a 997 Turbo. Stock vs Stock.
Top 40 Buttonwillow #13 CW Lap Times
1:45.247 (Billy Johnson; FX750 NSX; A048; ~600whp/~2800lbs w/driver; Nov 09; Video)
1:50.003 (Tim Kuo; Evasive Evo9; R888; 535whp/3100lbs w/driver; Nov 08)
1:51.49x (Dieter Heinz; C-Spec Tuning Evo8; R888; ~550whp/~2976lbs w/driver; Jun 08)
1:53.481 (Charles Ng; RENNSPEC E46 M3; Nitto NT01; 440whp/~3240lbs w/driver; Nov 10; sheet)
1:54.004 (Nils Leufven; Robispec/RRE Evo9; R888; ~335whp/3050lbs w/driver; Mar 10)
1:54.07x (Matt Andrews; 97 Eclipse FWD; NT01; 400whp/2880lbs; Mar 10)
1:54.471 (Emilio Cervantes; 99 Miata Kraftwerks Rotrex; A6; 230whp/2220lbs; Jan 10)
1:54.634 (Brent Bauman; 07 Exige S; A005; 222whp/~2100lbs w/driver; Sept 09)
1:54.848 (Oli Thordarson; C5 Z06 T1; V710; 380whp/3330lbs; Apr 10; Sheet)
1:54.8xx (Amir H.; FC3S; A6/R6; 420whp/2350lbs; JAN)
1:55.804 (Andrew Kidd; '94 Trackspeed Engineering Miata; Hankook C71; 350whp/~2030lbs; Sept 10; timesheet)
1:55.930 (Gordon Jennings; 94 Miata; Hankook C71; 400whp/2300lb w/driver; Sep 10)
1:56.155 (Bill Brinkop; C5 Z06; A6; 366whp/3230lbs (w/driver); Sept 25, 2010; Sheet, Video)
1:56.443 (Andy Kern; Lotus 211; A6; 220whp/1860lbs w/driver; Mar 10; Video)
1:56.461 (Eric Islas; 06 Evo9; NT01; 378whp/~3300lbs w/driver; Jan 10)
1:56.640 (Manly Kao; Elise; R888; 165whp/~1800lbs; Nov 09; Sheet)
1:56.749 (Jack Fried; 08 Lotus 211; A005; 255hp/1800lbs w/ driver; Jan 10)
1:57.053 (AJ Latteri; 06 Lotus Exige; R888; ~270whp/~2100lbs w/driver; Mar 2010)
1:57.372 (Ryan Cashin; 01 Z06; A6; 370hp/3270lbs; Oct 09; Sheet)
1:57.478 (Patrick O'Neill; Lotus 211; A005; 255hp/1885lbs w/ Driver; Jan 10)
1:58.189 (Tim Thai; ExigeS; Yoko Slicks; Power?/~2100lbs; Month?)
1:58.373 (Jim Tway; Honda S2000; NT01; 230whp/2800 w/driver; Oct 10, Video)
1:58.592 (Ed Nazarian; Evo9; R6; ~335whp/3210lbs w/driver; APR; Video; sheet)
1:58.839 (Mike Bonanni; Berk BMW 135i; RS3; ~400whp/~3179lbs; Mar 10)
1:59.108 (Jeff Tyler, HP Autowerks 335i 4-door, AD08s, 380whp/3600lbs, Apr 10; Video)
1:59.177 (Ed Lee; S2k; NT01; 240whp/~2880lbs; Oct 10; Video)
1:59.201 (Clint Boisdeau; 05 Focus, NT01; 250whp/2750lbs; JAN 11)
1:59.227 (Michael Tsay; 00 S2k; NT01; 220whp/2800lbs w/driver; Jan 10)
1:59.337 (Sonny W.; 04 MS Miata; NT01; 253whp/~2650lbs w/driver; Jan 10; Video)
1:59.3xx (Mark Tsai; 02 S2k; NT01; 200whp/2850lbs w/driver; Jun 09)
1:59.649 (Alex Peng; 07 S2k; RS-3; 210whp/2900lbs w/driver; Oct 10; Video)
1:59.702 (Owen Guo; AP1 S2k; Hoosier R3S03; 198whp/2650lbs w/driver; Jan 10)
1:59.709 (Ricky Kwan; 09 Nissan GTR; R888; 580hp/4050lbs; Oct 10)
2:01.311 (Zhong Cheung; 06 Evo IX; NT01; ~294whp/~3300lbs w/driver; Jan 2010)
2:02.311 (Kenny Chieu; KINOD MR-S; R1R; 190whp/2300lbs w/driver; Mar 10)
2:02.413 (Ben Rigaud; 03 S2000; Z1; 237HP/3000lbs+; Oct 10)
2:02.436 (Jason Katman; 92 Honda Civic hatch; RA1; 228whp/2305lbs w/driver; Jul 10)
2:02.468 (Matt Dennison; '06 Evo IX; NT05; 330whp/?lbs; Mar 09)
2:02.718 (Ryan Rush; '91 Acura NSX; NT01; 266whp/3020lbs w/driver; Jun 10)
2:02.858 (Brent Jackson; 09 GT-R; Dunlop SP600; 540awhp/4000lbs w/driver; Mar 10)
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Billy in the time attack NSX is 5 seconds ahead of the second place car. That's ginormous!!!!! :biggrin:
IMO lap times reflect more on handling and driver than power of the car. I can take a Z06 on a track and get beat by a geo metro with the right driver.
And an AWD car at that, ridiculous.
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Those high performance speed demons are selling on ebay in upwards of $5,000 with 250,391,594,100 miles on the clock. Yes I'm talking about Geo Metros... What's wrong with people?
I am glad you posted this - you make the point which imho is different than you suggest. Just because Billy can drive fast as hell - beat out his comp in a super powered NSX racer and the fact that he in any of the cars listed there may be able to best the times in their cars means absolutly nothing for that average driver.
What I mean is that if you or any other "tracker" got in those cars the differences in the times would, again imho, surprise the hell out of you. Put those cars in the hands of a professional - maybe they'd beat out Billy's own car and maybe they wouldn't. That's fine they're all race cars or souped up to one extent or another but the times of these guys, whoever they are are really varied. Take for example the guy in the Miata having better times than other cars obviously with more HP and torque and maybe better handling but they couldn't beat out a Miata with 230 hp.
What that tells me that in the hands of most of these guys here on Prime the numbers would be all over the place but mostly what you'd find, I think, is that the times wouldn't vary that much. They'd be a lot closer than the spread in your list of times because the difference in most of us is that we're not good enough to ring the most out of anything and our times would be very close whether we had 600 hp or 230 hp. The skill level makes so much difference. So that means that whether a regular guy on prime takes out his NA NSX or an SC'd NSX the times would be so close as to make one wonder why they spent all the money to make their cars faster. It would imho be almost comical.
All these wanna be racers - man give me a break - big bragging rights over my car is better and faster than yours stuff - makes little difference on a track if you don't have the ability to ring out the power effectively. Again - save your money and get some lessons. You don't become a "Billy the racer" without lots of training, inate ability, and time on the track.
I am sure I can have just as much fun on a track in my 91 NSX NA as anyone. Could I take a new 911 Turbo out there and best my time by 24 seconds - yea but who the hell cares. Is it worth the additional 100k - not to me. It would make me feel cool but it wouldn't improve my skills. :wink:
Who cares about numbers, at an amature level (i.e. doing it for fun, no sponsors, no prizes, etc.) all that they are good for is a bench racing cirlce jerk on the internet.
Get out and enjoy your car, get it on the track, learn how to extract as much performance as you can out of it. Eventually you'll be fast enough that people start saying things like "damn you ran that fast in THAT" to me that's way better than being faster than everybody in a car that just compensates for my own slowness.
That and running down Vipers and GTRs at HPDEs in an "underpowered" car is just fun.
Get out and enjoy your car, get it on the track, learn how to extract as much performance as you can out of it. Eventually you'll be fast enough that people start saying things like "damn you ran that fast in THAT" to me that's way better than being faster than everybody in a car that just compensates for my own slowness.
That and running down Vipers and GTRs at HPDEs in an "underpowered" car is just fun.
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To quote the old adage:
It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.
It's more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.
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