No matter what else....will this keep you from owning the NSX?

[JD Cross]

Honorable, patriotic sentiment.

However, do you know the mentality of the Japanese workers? Do you know how seriously they take their job? It is not just a matter of slapping some pieces together between 8-5 for them. Their pride and dedication are legend. There is a reason Japanese cars are the most dependable cars in the world. That is the reason your '95 Brooklands Green Pearl has given you 72,000 miles of Smiles.

Do you want your fabulous 2015 Acura NSX with mind boggling technology and performance be put together by people who are trying [very hard] to be as good as the Japanese workers?

Do you want to know that the 99% of the car that you cannot see, the nuts and bolts and wiring and the thousands of details of assembly were done at each step by people who take their job as seriously as their life or by someone who used to be putting corvettes or vipers together and now has graduated to the NSX?

I've not been in the automobile industry, but I did manage manufacturing plants in the forest industry.
And while lumber is not as complicated as cars certain principles apply regardless.
One I learned is that the standard of manufacturing you will get in a plant is precisely what you'll accept.

I would expect the Honda Ohio complex has a number of senior Japanese managers.
I would also expect they will have had to convince the senior people in Japan that they are capable of delivering the NSX halo car to Honda world standards.
I believe that the NSX's coming out of Ohio will be what Honda will accept and no less.
I also believe the workers on the NSX line will understand that their ability/credibility is on the line and they wont want to be hearing that they aren't as good as their Japanese counterparts.
We shouldn't underestimate the competence of a motivated American worker.

 

[fastaussie]

I think what liftcontrol is asking, is does this dilute the soul of the NSX, now that in theory at least, the car won't be 100% Japanese? it's really a very good question. how many Vette buyers would still want to purchase their new Stingray if it were assembled in Thailand? even if Chevy imported American workers to assemble it? I hadn't thought about it before honestly, but I certainly wouldn't buy a Ferrari that wasn't made in Italy, or a Porsche or BMW that wasn't put together in Germany. it's a bit like asking the question, if both parents are Japanese, but their child is born in America, what nationality is the child?

 

[scammy]

The quality of discussion and argument on NSXPRIME is refreshing and confidence inspiring

Most here feel that where the next NSX is made will not matter to them.
Let me ask them this to see if they really mean what they are saying.

If the next NSX cost $130,000 of your hard earned money.
It was being made in Japan and the US at the same time for the same cost.
You had the choice to pick one.
Made in Japan by Honda Motor Company. Made in US by Honda Motor Company.

Which will you pick?

Japanese all day long if i really had to choose, my 245,000km NSX still has not missed a beat in 15yrs of ownership and it gets driven hard. it's obviously part of the reason why i want a new one.
Any other Jap car i have owned i could say the same maybe not to the same degree as the NSX but you get my point
Any american made car i have owned (3) just absolute rubbish compared to them, things may have changed since those cars, i really hope so but the rest of the world is looking and watching and going i hope they dont f$&k this up.
I will wait for a year or two and you guys can be the guinea pigs on the first ones before i pull the trigger and i hope Honda USA nails it and produces a great car.
In saying all of this the engine and drive train is being assembled in Japan and then shipped to Ohio according to Ted so how wrong can they get it.

 

[liftcontrol]

I think what liftcontrol is asking, is does this dilute the soul of the NSX, now that in theory at least, the car won't be 100% Japanese? it's really a very good question. how many Vette buyers would still want to purchase their new Stingray if it were assembled in Thailand? even if Chevy imported American workers to assemble it? I hadn't thought about it before honestly, but I certainly wouldn't buy a Ferrari that wasn't made in Italy, or a Porsche or BMW that wasn't put together in Germany. it's a bit like asking the question, if both parents are Japanese, but their child is born in America, what nationality is the child?

Yes. Well said and that is the point.

When you buy a Civic or an Accord you are not thinking about the "soul" of the car. You are thinking reliable , cheap personal transportation and who cares where it was put together.

Entirely different story with a car you buy because it speaks to you and makes you lay awake at night thinking you need to go back to the garage and look at it one more time! Such a machine is not just a bunch of lugs and bolts put together by "someone somewhere". It is more than the sum of its parts.

What fastaussie said about the corvette assembled in Thailand and how not right that is, is precisely the point.

I would pay a few thousand dollars more to acquire an NSX born at Toichigi or Suzuka as I am convinced will most who plan to buy the next NSX new. When you are ok with spending $130,000 you are already committed to the car and you can just as easily spend $140,000 or 150,000. More so perhaps because you are getting the real resurrection of a true icon from the land where it was born without any dilution in any way.

 

[N Spec]

This brings to question what soul really is and Ghost in the Shell comes to mind if there are any anime/manga fans here. The idea of the manga/anime/movie is that it is possible to transfer one's consciousness digitally to another body or machine to live forever essentially. Well, metaphorically speaking, the soul of Honda's strategy for design and engineering is being transferred to a different continent outside of Japan. Japan, Germany and Italy are all very small nations when considering their real estate. It's the reason why they went to war in the past and now they have decided it's more diplomatic to use economics to take over the world...

I may be out there with my comparison, but the argument for soul is about as tangible as my comparison of a political themed anime versus real world issues.

Either way, I thought it was pretty clear that the powertrain is being developed in Japan, by mostly Japanese staff if that matters. It's only going to be assembled and shipped from the US instead of Japan to maximize efficiency for costs and profits. I don't see the difference between American or Japanese quality control workers as robots are going to be the doing the heavy lifting and assembly.

 

[liftcontrol]

Japanese all day long if i really had to choose, my 245,000km NSX still has not missed a beat in 15yrs of ownership and it gets driven hard. it's obviously part of the reason why i want a new one.
Any other Jap car i have owned i could say the same maybe not to the same degree as the NSX but you get my point
Any american made car i have owned (3) just absolute rubbish compared to them, things may have changed since those cars, i really hope so but the rest of the world is looking and watching and going i hope they dont f$&k this up.

In saying all of this the engine and drive train is being assembled in Japan and then shipped to Ohio according to Ted so how wrong can they get it.

Scammy, if Honda has so much confidence in their Ohio plant, why not assemble the engine and transmission in Ohio instead of shipping it from Japan?

If the answer is, oh that is the heart of the NSX and must be as perfect as possible, then what about the suspension, steering, brakes, wiring, lights, seats, trim etc. etc.... is it ok if those are just good enough but not necessarily on par with the engine and transmission?

You know, you and I and people on this forum respect the near perfection and bullet proof reliability of the Honda super car. That is why we are anal about things like (for example) wanting the wire harness under the dash which has 9 clips to be secured with the 9 clips by someone who is just as anal about it and not think 8 clips are enough because the 9th fell into the dash and cannot be located and will later drive you or me crazy due to the slight on off buzz it will produce at just the right RPM now after numerous trips to the Acura service department who think you are a pain in their a$$ for worrying about a little rattle and finally tell you that Bubba in the service will take apart the dashboard of your beloved to isolate the sound. You think long and hard and look at Bubba as he gulps down the biggie fries and wipes his hands on his sleeves will he find the problem and actually more importantly will he be able to put the dash back together the way Jake put it together in OHIO where he neglected to put all nine harness clips as he was told and taught by Mr. H. Onda who had come from Japan to teach him and others like him why the smallest details are the most important and whose lecture he was paying some attention to between texting his girlfriend and keeping up with the football score

Scammy, you ask "how wrong can they get it?".....while the answer to that question scares me as I am sure it does Honda executives, what bothers me even more is something different.

- - - Updated - - -

I may be out there with my comparison, but the argument for soul is about as tangible as my comparison of a political themed anime versus real world issues.

Maybe so but I sure did enjoy it nevertheless

 

[GT-N]

This thread is awesome. Let me get some popcorn while I read through the rest of it.

 

[N Spec]

To answer your question though, if the 458 or GT3 were designed and made in America, but arrived at the Same Exact result of what they now currently, I would think no different about giving the praise or lust that I give them now. So I am waiting to judge the new NSX based on the final product's results, not on where and who made it. We all know companies rise and fall with times. Look at Ford back in the heydays when they were competing with Ferrari. Look at them in the 80s, then 90s and look at them now. They are not consistent at all. Honda has been stumbling recently, but they are much more consistent than others IMO.

If Honda wasn't Honda and the NSX as we know right now was made by Hyundai, then I suppose I would be a Hyundai fan right now. However, the NSX result was only possible because of Honda's pedigree so it is somewhat a double edge sword. The same can be said for the GT3 or 458 also in reality versus hypothetical situations.

 

[Hothonda]

Go on over to the "Corvette Forum"....C7 discussion.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c7-general-discussion-142/

The all new C7's are being delivered to dealers (Oct/13) for customer sold units. Some (many, but not all) new owners
are not pleased.

GM is having some issues & it's dealer network continues to live up to the reputation of being incompetent.

 

[heySkippy]

Honorable, patriotic sentiment.

However, do you know the mentality of the Japanese workers? Do you know how seriously they take their job? It is not just a matter of slapping some pieces together between 8-5 for them. Their pride and dedication are legend. There is a reason Japanese cars are the most dependable cars in the world. That is the reason your '95 Brooklands Green Pearl has given you 72,000 miles of Smiles.

I disagree. The reason my car has given me over 100,000 miles of smiles is primarily because of my own dedication to maintenance and repairs. Certainly the dedication of the assemblers is important, so are the engineering team, the inspectors, the corporate culture, the quality of materials, and so on. There's nothing special about it being built in one country versus another if equal attention is being paid to the other elements.

 

[liftcontrol]

I disagree. The reason my car has given me over 100,000 miles of smiles is primarily because of my own dedication to maintenance and repairs.

I must disagree. Take a '95 Corvette and see if your dedication to maintenance and repairs is enough to give you the same amazing reliability as your '95 Honda icon:wink:

 

[Bram]

Here is my experience with Built in Japan vs USA.

Owned a 1990 Accord Built in the Japan....600,000Km and 12 years later, everything worked including the antenna, no rattles etc.

Owned a 2000 Accord Built in US....400,000 KM and 12 years later, 3 transimssions, entire front suspension (ball joints and control arms etc), some work on the rear suspension and electronic parts failing, engine using some oil.

Now, these cars are not NSX's, but doing the same type of driving and maintenance you can see the differances....I believe the local supplies play's a great part in the quality of the overall car.

Just another opinion

Bram

 

[simplife]

Real or imagined, there is perceived value here.

 

[liftnot]

The Japanese culture, work-man's pride, attitude...etc. is much different than the West.

My long time Japanese friend who is a marketing manager for Nissan in Tokyo told me he goes to work every morning to make money for his company. How many of the workers in the West think like that? Most of us work for food or work for benefits.

As the Yen rises or falls, everyone at Nissan knows exactly how much they are making or losing daily. He also told me Nissan was in big $$$ trouble back in the '90 of having too many engines, in order to stream line the supply chain to save money, economy of scale was a must which meant having the same V6 in as many models as possible(Sentra, Altima, Z, trucks etc) but that would also require to fire many mangers and workers that were in charge of different models of engines which the previous Japanese CEO was not able to do due to possible culture back lash, bad press and losing face.

Rumor has it when Honda was knee deep in F1 during the Senna era, the telemetry of their F1 engine was also monitored in real time by a team of engineers in Japan watching every rpm in action just in case.

My experience working with the Japanese is that they care more and they are very detail minded compare to the US workers.

 

[scammy]

Here is my experience with Built in Japan vs USA.

Owned a 1990 Accord Built in the Japan....600,000Km and 12 years later, everything worked including the antenna, no rattles etc.

Owned a 2000 Accord Built in US....400,000 KM and 12 years later, 3 transimssions, entire front suspension (ball joints and control arms etc), some work on the rear suspension and electronic parts failing, engine using some oil.

Now, these cars are not NSX's, but doing the same type of driving and maintenance you can see the differances....I believe the local supplies play's a great part in the quality of the overall car.

Just another opinion

Bram

Yeah America dont take it personally but your record is not flash, if i had a choice between a car made in my country and one in Japan the answer would still be Japan.
If it was a boat then NZ all day long but cars especially this car Japan!

 

[popeye]

This is all kind of humorous ; bottom line when they allow buyers to test drive the new NSX in 2015 or 2016 please drive your current NSX there and then drive the new NSX on your favorite "stress reliever " ribbon of asphalt and then decide

 

[Snoopy]

This car sounds fantastic and would like to drive one before deciding. Lack of a true manual may keep me from buying, and with speculation of a manual GT3 in the future, that may sway me.

 

[WingZ]

Another reason why a American built NSX is a good thing

http://news.yahoo.com/once-decade-typhoon-threatens-japanese-capital-103925754--finance.html

 

[heySkippy]

I must disagree. Take a '95 Corvette and see if your dedication to maintenance and repairs is enough to give you the same amazing reliability as your '95 Honda icon:wink:

Amazing reliability? I just finished transferring 8 1/2 years of receipts into an Excel spreadsheet and looking at the totals was eye-opening. Certainly my car has been reasonably reliable, but amazing? No, not so much, especially when simple parts like a radiator, window regulator, antenna mast, or even door handles cost multiples of what the same part costs on a more ordinary car. I'm not complaining, but let's be honest about it.

 

[liftcontrol]

Amazing reliability? Certainly my car has been reasonably reliable, but amazing? No, not so much,

A merely reasonably reliable NSX! That is amazing in itself

 

[fastaussie]

there was that little problem of a snap ring in the early models...

 

[liftcontrol]

Cars like the 911 have been in production for so long that the bugs have been pretty much worked out and the best qualities of the ( flawed ?) chassis and drivetrain have been honed to the latest state of perfection; nowhere as clearly seen as in the brilliant new GT3. The engineering prowess of HONDA is a given but to expect a brand new NSX to be introduced without teething pains is highly unlikely. It would be prudent for would be buyers to show patience and prudence.

 

[BD]

A porsche specialist told me that the companied hired Honda as their consultant in the mid 1990's to update their outdated facility, which help them solved lots of problems. However, they still had some issues with 997 engine blocks, certain seals will break off. I have told this story several times, I was with a friend who had a regular 2005 997 and the engine froze half way on the free way because a seal broke at 20k miles cause it to run dry.

Also Ferrari did just that after Honda left F1 in 1992. Honda's F1 engineer Osamu Goto was with Ferrari/Sauber for years.

 

[liftcontrol]

A porsche specialist told me that the companied hired Honda as their consultant in the mid 1990's to update their outdated facility, which help them solved lots of problems. However, they still had some issues with 997 engine blocks, certain seals will break off. I have told this story several times, I was with a friend who had a regular 2005 997 and the engine froze half way on the free way because a seal broke at 20k miles cause it to run dry.

Also Ferrari did just that after Honda left F1 in 1992. Honda's F1 engineer Osamu Goto was with Ferrari/Sauber for years.

Very true. Makes me want to puke thinking that Honda took their own sports car program and flushed it down the toilet while other sports car companies that it was competing with at one time and beating, took Honda's talent to improve their own products.

The decision to can their own sports cars was and will go down as the most shameful and ill conceived in the history of Honda.