More NSX dishonesty......

[NSXY]

I don't see the VIN advertised on this Ebay ad, so I don't know if it's the same car. If it is the same car, note that the seller, richterenterprises, wrote: "The exterior finish of this NSX is just beautiful!! The finish is extraordinarily sharp, extremely clean, and has a wonderful factory gloss and shine! This NSX is in all original paint indicating the fact that there is no accident history whatsoever!! There are no dents no scratches or other unsightly marks at all!! The whole vehicle looks incredibly sexy and is in super condition!!"

If it is the same car, the above is clearly not true.

------------------
NSXY
95 NSX-T, 5 sp, Red/Tan, Tubi exhaust, Dali street anti-sway bars, Dunlop SP9000s

 

[lemansnsx]

Originally posted by NSXY:
I don't see the VIN advertised on this Ebay ad,
If it is the same car, the above is clearly not true.

Read D'ecosse's post, above.


------------------
Andrew Henderson
The NSX Model List Page

"We have long acknowledged that enthusiasm for things automotive is a sure
sign of emotional instability if not outright dementia" - Brock Yates

 

[D'Ecosse]

As I wrote above - This is the same car - Richter acknowledged pics on E-Bay were not of the actual car. He then sent me another e-mail of the actual car which are the exact same pics from the topic opener.
I have pointed out to him if he is innocent of this knowledge (which he no longer is as I have pointed him to this link) then he should now divorce himself from this transaction.
He says he is conducting sale for a family friend whom he trusted & if info is valid he will terminate auction.
Its still there however!

 

[NSXY]

I understand, but a photo is not proof of a VIN, which is the only missing piece of this puzzle.

------------------
NSXY
95 NSX-T, 5 sp, Red/Tan, Tubi exhaust, Dali street anti-sway bars, Dunlop SP9000s

 

[Joel]

I'm wondering, if someone tells you that the car is "perfect" (never having been in an accident or work done) and you find out later otherwise, what legal actions can you take to redeem the purchase? Can you tell a dealer that they lied and they need to give your money back? What if it's a person-to-person purchase?

I'm finding that I need to be more vigilant and wary of dealers than I do with individuals selling their NSX. With other cars, it's usually the other way around because there are federal regulations that dealers need to abide by to sell a car. No such regulations exist with private parties.

So, would you say private parties are GENERALLY more trustworthy about their NSX's than dealers?

 

[D'Ecosse]

On the slightly off-topic of salvaged title cars:
I think this thread is about (per the title) dishonest representation - there is nothing wrong with selling a salvaged title car if it is accurately portrayed.
This particular E-Bay listing is full of inaccuracies - no paint, no damage, early lease termination, not even the correct pictures of the car for sale.
If someone wants to buy a salvaged title car then that is their own business but they should be doing so in full awareness of the facts - it is one thing to just not know the history, but deliberate misrepresentation (lying) is a whole other matter.
So discussion of the viability of salvage title vehicles is not really the point of debate here.

 

[NSXY]

I have forwarded this page to the last bidder, Hendrix48, and asked for a reply. We'll see what happens.....

------------------
NSXY
95 NSX-T, 5 sp, Red/Tan, Tubi exhaust, Dali street anti-sway bars, Dunlop SP9000s

 

[D'Ecosse]

Re - VIN only piece missing:
Acknowledge that VIN has not been linked deinitively to the E-Bay car i.e Richter has not posted the VIN (invitation to Mr Richter, prove us wrong & give us the VIN of your posting!)
However - Posting on autobrokers intl did give up the VIN of their car to NSXY, which we know is "cleaned" title from Blurr's former car; the pictures sent by Richter where he acknowledges that they are the actual car for sale on E-Bay are the exact same pictures from autobrokers intl (unless they parked an exact same yellow NSX in exact same positions & took pics from exact same camera angles with exact same trash in the b/ground!)
So not much doubt in my mind.

 

[blurr]

Originally posted by mikec:
Why do they declare NSX's totaled so quickly? are they that expensive to repair? That roll-over car didn't seem damaged that badly.

The damages were quoted at something over $40,000. That is less than half of what the insurence deemed the value of the car was. Keep in mind that that was replacing everything with new parts from Acura.

I sold the car to ERZ. They deal in wrecked exotic cars. I would guess that they were able to repair it for far less money using a couple of the many salvaged cars they regularly get.



[This message has been edited by blurr (edited 17 July 2002).]

 

[D'Ecosse]

Seller just posted ammendment on E-Bay as written below

"HELLO, THERE HAS BEEN SOMETHING THAT HAS JUST BEEN BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION. THE TITLE IS CLEAN AND THERE IS NO ACCIDENT HISTORY BUT SOMEONE HAS SAID THAT THIS CAR MIGHT HAVE BEEN IN A MINOR ACCIDENT THAT DID NOT INVOLVE ANY FRAME DAMAGE. I AM CHECKING INTO THIS RIGHT NOW BUT I AM GETTING NOWHERE RIGHT NOW. I WILL POST AN UPDATE AS SOON AS I KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON. OTHER WISE AS FAR AS THE RECORDS GO THIS CAR HAS A CLEAN TITLE AND IS FOR A GREAT PRICE. IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO RETRACT YOUR BID PLEASE DO SO NOW. THANKS"

Still not quite accurate but a start maybe ...

 

[lemansnsx]

Originally posted by D'Ecosse:
Re - VIN only piece missing:
Acknowledge that VIN has not been linked deinitively to the E-Bay car i.e Richter has not posted the VIN (invitation to Mr Richter, prove us wrong & give us the VIN of your posting!)

Mr. Richter has supplied the VIN in response to my e-mails and, in return, I have supplied him with links to this discussion.

It is the same car.

Edit: just looked at his auction again and he has updated it twice more. Once to give the VIN and once more to state that "The Vin Number Is jh4na2169yt000265 this car was not from the Mt. Palomar light rollover. THE TITLE IS CLEAN********************CARFAX CHECKS OUT". Guess we're mistaken.

------------------
Andrew Henderson
The NSX Model List Page

"We have long acknowledged that enthusiasm for things automotive is a sure
sign of emotional instability if not outright dementia" - Brock Yates

[This message has been edited by lemansnsx (edited 17 July 2002).]

 

[DocL]

This is one good example why I would NEVER purchase a car via an e-bay transaction.

Furthermore, I never expected this thread to get so much attention.

Do I get a McGruff Sherriff Badge????

 

[NSXY]

Originally posted by Dr.Lane:
This is one good example why I would NEVER purchase a car via an e-bay transaction.

Furthermore, I never expected this thread to get so much attention.

Do I get a McGruff Sherriff Badge????

I just sent the Ebay seller the following email:

"Michael:

I see that you've changed your Ebay ad to say "The Vin Number Is jh4na2169yt000265 this car was not from the Mt. Palomar light rollover. THE TITLE IS CLEAN" Why would you write that it's NOT the same car, when in fact is IS the same car? This VIN was listed as a TOTAL by the previous owner who rolled it over in CA. In fact, it IS the MT. Palomar rollover!!!!!!!!!!. Want evidence? See the second to last car listed on http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Reference/totalledvin.htm The photos of the car are there for you to see, because the owner who rolled it posted them, anticipating your type of false advertising. Have fun in the legal shit can, and don't ask me for anymore help. You're on your own."

This guy is a real case.....

------------------
NSXY
95 NSX-T, 5 sp, Red/Tan, Tubi exhaust, Dali street anti-sway bars, Dunlop SP9000s

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by Joel:
would you say private parties are GENERALLY more trustworthy about their NSX's than dealers?

Not necessarily. There are some private parties you can trust, and there are some you can't. Just like dealers.

Originally posted by blurr:
The damages were quoted at something over $40,000. That is less than half of what the insurence deemed the value of the car was. Keep in mind that that was replacing everything with new parts from Acura.

Then they gave you a heck of a deal, since you could have bought a brand new one for less than their settlement, it appears.

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

Originally posted by blurr:
The damages were quoted at something over $40,000. That is less than half of what the insurence deemed the value of the car was. Keep in mind that that was replacing everything with new parts from Acura.

I sold the car to ERZ. They deal in wrecked exotic cars. I would guess that they were able to repair it for far less money using a couple of the many salvaged cars they regularly get.
(edited 17 July 2002).]

From your description, even though the car deemed total by the insurance, it does not necessarily salvage title since the cost of repair don't reach 75% value of the car.

 

[NSXY]

In response to my email (above) the seller sent me the following, presumably to indicate that we are wrong, he is right, and only the CarFax report counts:

Vehicle Description JH4NA2169YT000265
TitleCheck 0 records found
ProblemCheck 0 records found
OdometerCheck 0 records found
Vehicle Information 0 records found
Full History 1 records found

--------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------


VIN: JH4NA2169YT000265
Year: 2000
Make: Acura
Model: Nsx NSX-T
Style/Body: 2 Passenger 2 Dr Coupe
Engine: 3.2L V 6 NA OHV Gas EFI
Country of Assembly: Japan

Key: = No Problem Found = Problem Found = Information Found

Your Vehicle Checks Out! AutoCheck's results for this 2000 Acura
Nsx NSX-T(JH4NA2169YT000265) show no significant Title events. When found,
events often indicate past automotive damage or warnings associated with the
vehicle title.
Problems Checked: Results Found
Abandoned No Abandoned Record Found
Damaged No Damaged Record Found
Fire Damage No Fire Damage Record Found
Grey Market No Grey Market Record Found
Hail Damage No Hail Damage Record Found
Insurance Loss No Insurance Loss Record Found
Junk No Junk Record Found
Odometer Problem No Odometer Problem Record Found
Rebuilt/Rebuildable No Rebuilt/Rebuildable Record Found
Salvage No Salvage Record Found
Water Damage No Water Damage Record Found

Your Vehicle Checks Out! AutoCheck's database for this 2000 Acura
Nsx NSX-T(JH4NA2169YT000265) shows no historical events that indicate a
significant automotive problem. These problems can indicate previous car
damage, theft, or other significant problem.
Problems Checked: Results Found
NHTSA Crash Test Vehicle No NHTSA Crash Test Vehicle Record
Found
Fire Damage Incident No Fire Damage Incident Record Found
Frame Damage No Frame Damage Record Found
Major Damage Incident No Major Damage Incident Record Found
Manufacturer Buyback/Lemon No Manufacturer Buyback/Lemon Record
Found
Salvage Auction No Salvage Auction Record Found
Theft No Theft Record Found

Your Vehicle Checks Out! For this 2000 Acura Nsx
NSX-T(JH4NA2169YT000265)no indication of an odometer rollback or tampering
was found. We determine odometer rollbacks by searching for records that
indicate odometer reading that are less than a previously reported value.
Other odometer events can report events of tampering, or possible odometer
breakage.
Date Reported Odometer Reading
No odometer records were found for your vehicle.

Your Vehicle Checks Out! AutoCheck shows a clean record for this
2000 Acura Nsx NSX-T(JH4NA2169YT000265). For some cars, past vehicle
information may give indication of excessive wear and tear, such as police
cars or taxi use.
Problems Checked: Results Found
Accident Data No accident data available
Corrected Title No Corrected Title Record Found
Driver Education No Driver Education Record Found
Duplicate Title No Duplicate Title Record Found
Emission/Safety Inspection No Emission/Safety Inspection Record
Found
Fleet No Fleet Record Found
Lease No Lease Record Found
Lien No Lien Record Found
Livery Use No Livery Use Record Found
Government Use No Government Use Record Found
Police Use No Police Use Record Found
Rental No Rental Record Found
Repossessed No Repossessed Record Found
Taxi Use No Taxi Use Record Found

Below are the historical events for this vehicle listed in
chronological order. Any discrepancies will be in bold text.
VIN JH4NA2169YT000265 2000 Acura Nsx NSX-T
Event Date Event Location Odometer Reading Data Source Event
Detail
05/04/01 IRVINE, CA MOTOR VEHICLE DEPT. DMV TRANSACTION


Experian's Privacy Statement

AutoCheck Vehicle History Report Disclaimer:
Experian's AutoCheck Vehicle History Report is compiled from
multiple sources. It is not always possible for Experian to obtain complete
discrepancy information on all vehicles, therefore, there may be other title
brands, odometer readings or discrepancies that apply to this vehicle that
are not reflected on this report. Experian searches data from additional
sources where possible but all discrepancies may not be reflected on the
AutoCheck Vehicle History Report.

THESE REPORTS ARE BASED ON INFORMATION SUPPLIED TO EXPERIAN BY
EXTERNAL SOURCES BELIEVED TO BE RELIABLE BUT NO RESPONSIBILITY IS ASSUMED BY
EXPERIAN OR ITS AGENTS FOR ERRORS, INACCURACIES OR OMISSIONS. THE REPORTS
ARE PROVIDED STRICTLY ON AN "AS IS WHERE IS" BASIS, AND EXPERIAN FURTHER
EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING ANY
IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE
REGARDING THIS REPORT.

Experian shall not be liable for any delay or failure to provide
an accurate report if and to the extent which such delay or failure is
caused by events beyond the reasonable control of Experian including,
without limitation, acts of God or public enemies, labor disputes, equipment
malfunctions, material or component shortages, supplier failures, embargoes,
rationing, acts of local, state or national governments, or public agencies,
utility or communication failures or delays, fire, earthquakes, flood,
epidemics, riots and strikes.


------------------
NSXY
95 NSX-T, 5 sp, Red/Tan, Tubi exhaust, Dali street anti-sway bars, Dunlop SP9000s

 

[lemansnsx]

Ok, the seller sent me the same Experian report, twice in fact! He didn't attach any comments or anything so I'm assuming that he thinks that it speaks for itself and is all the evidence anyone could need. Whatever.

How do titles get washed, exactly? Could anyone "in the biz" explain this properly? How do the previous records (when Blurr titled his car, etc.) just disappear? Since the VIN is a unique identifier I would have thought that *all* records would follow it forever. Bottom line: how does the prior history just disappear like this?

------------------
Andrew Henderson
The NSX Model List Page

"We have long acknowledged that enthusiasm for things automotive is a sure
sign of emotional instability if not outright dementia" - Brock Yates

 

[NSXY]

As I recall, Florida is somehow capable of this title cleaning crap, but I don't know the legal basis. It should definitely be stopped, because it's clearly fraudulent in most other states.

------------------
NSXY
95 NSX-T, 5 sp, Red/Tan, Tubi exhaust, Dali street anti-sway bars, Dunlop SP9000s

 

[mr bigglesworth]

Vehicle Description JH4NA2169YT000265
TitleCheck 0 records found
ProblemCheck 0 records found
OdometerCheck 0 records found
Vehicle Information 0 records found
Full History 1 records found



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




VIN: JH4NA2169YT000265
Year: 2000
Make: Acura
Model: Nsx NSX-T
Style/Body: 2 Passenger 2 Dr Coupe
Engine: 3.2L V 6 NA OHV Gas EFI
Country of Assembly: Japan

Key: = No Problem Found = Problem Found = Information Found



Your Vehicle Checks Out! AutoCheck’s results for this 2000 Acura Nsx NSX-T(JH4NA2169YT000265) show no significant Title events. When found, events often indicate past automotive damage or warnings associated with the vehicle title.
Problems Checked: Results Found
Abandoned No Abandoned Record Found
Damaged No Damaged Record Found
Fire Damage No Fire Damage Record Found
Grey Market No Grey Market Record Found
Hail Damage No Hail Damage Record Found
Insurance Loss No Insurance Loss Record Found
Junk No Junk Record Found
Odometer Problem No Odometer Problem Record Found
Rebuilt/Rebuildable No Rebuilt/Rebuildable Record Found
Salvage No Salvage Record Found
Water Damage No Water Damage Record Found



Your Vehicle Checks Out! AutoCheck’s database for this 2000 Acura Nsx NSX-T(JH4NA2169YT000265) shows no historical events that indicate a significant automotive problem. These problems can indicate previous car damage, theft, or other significant problem.
Problems Checked: Results Found
NHTSA Crash Test Vehicle No NHTSA Crash Test Vehicle Record Found
Fire Damage Incident No Fire Damage Incident Record Found
Frame Damage No Frame Damage Record Found
Major Damage Incident No Major Damage Incident Record Found
Manufacturer Buyback/Lemon No Manufacturer Buyback/Lemon Record Found
Salvage Auction No Salvage Auction Record Found
Theft No Theft Record Found



Your Vehicle Checks Out! For this 2000 Acura Nsx NSX-T(JH4NA2169YT000265)no indication of an odometer rollback or tampering was found. We determine odometer rollbacks by searching for records that indicate odometer reading that are less than a previously reported value. Other odometer events can report events of tampering, or possible odometer breakage.
Date Reported Odometer Reading
No odometer records were found for your vehicle.



Your Vehicle Checks Out! AutoCheck shows a clean record for this 2000 Acura Nsx NSX-T(JH4NA2169YT000265). For some cars, past vehicle information may give indication of excessive wear and tear, such as police cars or taxi use.
Problems Checked: Results Found
Accident Data No accident data available
Corrected Title No Corrected Title Record Found
Driver Education No Driver Education Record Found
Duplicate Title No Duplicate Title Record Found
Emission/Safety Inspection No Emission/Safety Inspection Record Found
Fleet No Fleet Record Found
Lease No Lease Record Found
Lien No Lien Record Found
Livery Use No Livery Use Record Found
Government Use No Government Use Record Found
Police Use No Police Use Record Found
Rental No Rental Record Found
Repossessed No Repossessed Record Found
Taxi Use No Taxi Use Record Found



Below are the historical events for this vehicle listed in chronological order. Any discrepancies will be in bold text.
VIN JH4NA2169YT000265 2000 Acura Nsx NSX-T
Event Date Event Location Odometer Reading Data Source Event Detail
05/04/01 IRVINE, CA MOTOR VEHICLE DEPT. DMV TRANSACTION




Experian's Privacy Statement

AutoCheck Vehicle History Report Disclaimer:
Experian's AutoCheck Vehicle History Report is compiled from multiple sources. It is not always possible for Experian to obtain complete discrepancy information on all vehicles, therefore, there may be other title brands, odometer readings or discrepancies that apply to this vehicle that are not reflected on this report. Experian searches data from additional sources where possible but all discrepancies may not be reflected on the AutoCheck Vehicle History Report.

THESE REPORTS ARE BASED ON INFORMATION SUPPLIED TO EXPERIAN BY EXTERNAL SOURCES BELIEVED TO BE RELIABLE BUT NO RESPONSIBILITY IS ASSUMED BY EXPERIAN OR ITS AGENTS FOR ERRORS, INACCURACIES OR OMISSIONS. THE REPORTS ARE PROVIDED STRICTLY ON AN "AS IS WHERE IS" BASIS, AND EXPERIAN FURTHER EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE REGARDING THIS REPORT.

Experian shall not be liable for any delay or failure to provide an accurate report if and to the extent which such delay or failure is caused by events beyond the reasonable control of Experian including, without limitation, acts of God or public enemies, labor disputes, equipment malfunctions, material or component shortages, supplier failures, embargoes, rationing, acts of local, state or national governments, or public agencies, utility or communication failures or delays, fire, earthquakes, flood, epidemics, riots and strikes.

 

[NSXY]

Originally posted by mr bigglesworth:

Vehicle Description JH4NA2169YT000265
TitleCheck 0 records found
ProblemCheck 0 records found
OdometerCheck 0 records found
Vehicle Information 0 records found
Full History 1 records found

Yo mr bigglesworth:

So what's the point to your contribution here?



------------------
NSXY
95 NSX-T, 5 sp, Red/Tan, Tubi exhaust, Dali street anti-sway bars, Dunlop SP9000s

 

[lemansnsx]

Originally posted by mr bigglesworth:

Vehicle Description JH4NA2169YT000265
TitleCheck 0 records found
ProblemCheck 0 records found
OdometerCheck 0 records found
Vehicle Information 0 records found
Full History 1 records found

Was there some point to reposting the Autocheck report with no comments????

------------------
Andrew Henderson
The NSX Model List Page

"We have long acknowledged that enthusiasm for things automotive is a sure
sign of emotional instability if not outright dementia" - Brock Yates

 

[steveny]

Originally posted by blurr:
yeah that was my car... upside down and all. They never sent me my sway bars back either =(

It had ~5500 miles on it at the time of the crash. Who knows now. If anyone is actually looking at this car as a purchase I can send you the quote from the body shop to fix it before it was declared totaled so that you know what was wrong with it.

-matt

I originally found this car after Blurr wrecked and sold it. It Is the same car. The car still had Blurr's license plates on it. Blurr told me confidentially what he sold the car for. I can tell you that Eco car is making a ton of cash on this deal. I am not sure but I think I also posted in the early topic pertaining to this car the process that is used to wash salvage titles. The car is transferred between another state and Florida, somehow this cleans the title. It really is unfortunate that the seller is not being straight forward. But knowing what I know about e bay the buyer will more than likely not follow through anyways. Hence the seller will reap no reward for his misrepresentation.

 

[NSXY]

It's pretty clear that Experian's CarFax report may not be worth the space it's printed on, becuase of these wrongly cleaned titles in FL.

------------------
NSXY
95 NSX-T, 5 sp, Red/Tan, Tubi exhaust, Dali street anti-sway bars, Dunlop SP9000s

 

[mr bigglesworth]

I am simply a middle man. I did the carfax and it checked out. That's all I ever do when I purchase cars for myself or other people. If what you say about the car is true how come the title is clean. Maybe your friend never really had the car in the first place or someone decided to make the vin number match that of mine. That makes allot more sense than all of the records being wrong. I have read all of the little posts by people with nothing better to do than post messages about things they don't know about and I bet half of the members don't even own an NSX. Don't be nasty to me, if I wanted I could come after the person that contacted the highest bidder which is not legal. But I had already contacted him so for now our two worlds wont collide. . The buyer of the car will know the history of the car and just like any other of my auctions if they do not want it they don't have to keep it. I also am a Ebay square trader and Ebay can will and have been the middle man in a number of my auctions a number of years ago. In addition Ebay would help out the buyer with legal help or reimbursement if a problem should arise. Thats all for now Boys and Girls. Thanks for your (help) or threats whatever you want to call it

 

[flaminio]

Unbelievable...

-Bob