Long Term Updates on SOS SC/Laminova IC?

[RYU]

We need more people measuring and posting their Intake Air Temps. All this speculation is driving me nuts.

I'm receiving my gauges and sensors this week so i'll have some good data to post by this summer. I'm only one test case though. Need more to eliminate anomalies.

 

[BATMANs]

We need more people measuring and posting their Intake Air Temps. All this speculation is driving me nuts......

That is the challenge with the NSX community where there are alot of "purists" that keep it stock and certainly NA and the high costs (due to limited production runs) of the forced induction solutions make it prohibitive for many.

 

[Blacknot]

Has anyone thought of spraying a mist over the inter-cooler at the front of the car to aid in heat removal?

How about thermal dissipation coatings for the very same IC?

I did the spray over my stock mount inter-cooler upgrade in the RX7 with awesome results. It's better than driving the car in the fog.

I but.a spray rail for nitrous on my Turbo car before they started selling them. I had 2 nozzles. One on each side of the intercooler. It did make 10whp on the dyno.

 

[Vega$ NSX]

I've lost engines from other projects due to high IAT temps.

+1 This is a common killer of engines and I've seen it be the direct cause of a few blown engines. It's also why it's important to constantly monitor the IAT and EGT on your gauges and why FI cars need gauges to begin with. Careful monitoring of IAT, EGT, AFR, Oil and Fuel Pressure with alarms will save engines all day long.

 

[RYU]

+1 This is a common killer of engines and I've seen it be the direct cause of a few blown engines. It's also why it's important to constantly monitor the IAT and EGT on your gauges and why FI cars need gauges to begin with. Careful monitoring of IAT, EGT, AFR, Oil and Fuel Pressure with alarms will save engines all day long.

Bingo! Lots of folks run cooling mechanisms but don't monitor them actively. That seems crazy to me.

 

[Blacknot]

We need more people measuring and posting their Intake Air Temps. All this speculation is driving me nuts.

I'm receiving my gauges and sensors this week so i'll have some good data to post by this summer. I'm only one test case though. Need more to eliminate anomalies.

I'm planning on monitoring my IAT myself so i can contribute. Also i have a friend that owns a shop over in Tampa (Induction Performance) who has alot of experience with water/meth injection and he is tuning my car and setting up the water/meth kit to spray as needed. So hopefully i can share what im learning from him. Any FI car really should have an intercooler or a way to cool IAT. I live in Fl so its a must.

 

[BATMANs]

Right now the only Supercharged car that I have that I can monitor is my GTO.

The IAT goes up pretty dam fast after several seconds of hard runs that I really can't imagine anyone or any scenario where you wouldn't need an IC.

It's just not worth the gamble.

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Chris, thanks for chiming in. Any reason why you folks haven't engineered a meth/water solution? I would definitely be in the market for that.

We have tested methanol/water injection systems in twin screw superchargers with little effect. The injection was done ahead of the compressor. Better results may be found by injecting in to the manifold, or to the individual ports, however, the plumbing would be a challenge due to the limited space.

-- Chris

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

It's just not worth the gamble.

I think this is not as complicated as it is being made out to be.

With a programmable engine management, the fuel mixture and ignition setting can be tuned for the conditions produced by the compressor. The standard non-intercooled supercharger output in air mass and temperature is in fact very consistent and well within the knock threshold of 91 octane fuel. If you are looking for a reliable setup, this system has several years of reliable use.

-- Chris

 

[Blacknot]

We have tested methanol/water injection systems in twin screw superchargers with little effect. The injection was done ahead of the compressor. Better results may be found by injecting in to the manifold, or to the individual ports, however, the plumbing would be a challenge due to the limited space.

-- Chris

Little effect meaning not making power or not cooling?

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Little effect meaning not making power or not cooling?

Little to no power gain.

 

[RYU]

I forgot I had posted about this...

http://nsxprime.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1475977&postcount=150

 

[BATMANs]

Bingo! Lots of folks run cooling mechanisms but don't monitor them actively. That seems crazy to me.

My thoughts are that the cooling solutions should be present. Under heavy and frequent use the IAT can raise up fast. And during racing or spirited driving you don't always have the luxury to keep your eye on the IAT and present countermeasures in time..

There's also the matter of gauges that don't read and transmit data in real time.

Throw all of those and perhaps some unforeseen factors I may have left out and you are on the ragged edge of safe or kaboom.

This is a realm of either you detonate or you don't. There is no semi-detonation grey-area.

 

[RYU]

My thoughts are that the cooling solutions should be present. Under heavy and frequent use the IAT can raise up fast. And during racing or spirited driving you don't always have the luxury to keep your eye on the IAT and present countermeasures in time..

Look into alarms

There's also the matter of gauges that don't read and transmit data in real time.

Stop buying cheap gauges.

Throw all of those and perhaps some unforeseen factors I may have left out and you are on the ragged edge of safe or kaboom.

This is a realm of either you detonate or you don't. There is no semi-detonation grey-area.

My small brain doesn't understand anything here. Instead of rebutting let me just say. ok

 

[jks32]

I am interested in this comment. In my experience, this type of screw charger is the quietest supercharger I have ever heard - including OEM supercharged applications. You should be able to *barely* hear it at idle, and it should be almost undetectable under load. This comment interest me, especially coming from a previously centrifigul supercharger (which tend to be the noisest available). Perhaps you can call and have me take a listen if you think this is a problem. Or, perhaps I misunderstood you - and you're comparing to a completely stock NSX?

cheers,
-- Chris

Sorry I was not very clear. I was commenting that the SC does add some additional background noise relative to a stock NSX and a turbocharger. It is minimal and certainly not an issue. However, it is noticeably louder at WOT, especially with my cantrell intake scoop.

 

[ozone]

You don't need an aem for high boost ctsc, I think you need aem for any SOS sc.

It is probably a good idea to run aem on a high boost ctsc though.

I spoke to a tuner today who said tuning is an absolute must with CTSC. Don't even think of driving it out without a dyno tune and AEM or you may lose your SC. I didn't specify low or high boost but he implied all CTSC installs. I'm getting a bit confused now.

I am looking into a couple different options for SC install. One installer doesn't tune and the other does. I should go AEM route and get it tuned even if it's low boost?

 

[RYU]

I spoke to a tuner today who said tuning is an absolute must with CTSC. Don't even think of driving it out without a dyno tune and AEM or you may lose your SC. I didn't specify low or high boost but he implied all CTSC installs. I'm getting a bit confused now.

I am looking into a couple different options for SC install. One installer doesn't tune and the other does. I should go AEM route and get it tuned even if it's low boost?

Take a step back for a moment. Who cares what anyone says on this site or elsewhere. Take a look at the number of reported cases of stock low-boost CTSC setups that have caused engine failure. Of the hundreds sold you'll be lucky if you find even 5. Granted there may be failures not documented.. but still.

IMHO you're tuner is simply ill informed or is looking to have you help pay his monthly bills.

 

[RYU]

I also practice what I preach so here are my own recent IAT measurements.

I'm definitely going Meth/Water because i'm looking for at least 30 degs of cooling, but the IATs didn't rise as high as I expected. Then again, it's fairly cool still in the year and I was not tracking the car where it really gets hot. Both "runs" were decently heatsoaked but not near what a 20 min track session would do I think.

Sea Level @ 70 deg ambient. 1-2-3rd WOT pull @ 6.5-7lbs of boost

5000ft @ 60 deg ambient. 1-2-3rd WOT pull with a slight uphill @ 6lbs of boost (due to altitude)

Notes: I'm running the stock RRFPR with a Walbro 255 on stock injectors and the boost-a-pump. I'm going to try to remove the boost-a-pump and possibly mess with the RRFPR. I'm surprised my current setup isn't running lean (like many i've read). I was actually counting on it to run lean so I can add Meth to richen it up w/o messing with the stock comptech fueling. I still have to remove my restrictive exhaust and put in place a free-flowing one. That should lean it up a bit and free up some HP. Still some tuning left in my setup to do but i'm trying to add an extra buffer of safety for the track. If this was a street only car i'd have called it a day months ago with the stock CTSC setup...

 

[peiserg]

We have tested methanol/water injection systems in twin screw superchargers with little effect. The injection was done ahead of the compressor. Better results may be found by injecting in to the manifold, or to the individual ports, however, the plumbing would be a challenge due to the limited space.

-- Chris

I looked extensively into meth injection for the FGT with its twin screw. The consensus was injection after compression was the only way to realize coolant effect.

 

[NetViper]

I spoke to a tuner today who said tuning is an absolute must with CTSC. Don't even think of driving it out without a dyno tune and AEM or you may lose your SC. I didn't specify low or high boost but he implied all CTSC installs. I'm getting a bit confused now.

I am looking into a couple different options for SC install. One installer doesn't tune and the other does. I should go AEM route and get it tuned even if it's low boost?

If that were true, ct-engineering would include the AEM in their kit. Find another tuner -- well, with a 6lbs kit you don't need a tuner anyway.

 

[Blacknot]

I looked extensively into meth injection for the FGT with its twin screw. The consensus was injection after compression was the only way to realize coolant effect.

mine seems to be working great. Have taken the car up to 150mph and can't get the IAT temp to rise more than 20 degrees over normal driving temp.

 

[RYU]

mine seems to be working great. Have taken the car up to 150mph and can't get the IAT temp to rise more than 20 degrees over normal driving temp.

That's great news! Roughly what are your ambient temps there in your side of FL? 80s? Has the humidity gotten yet?

Normal driving temp is probably around 140* right?

 

[Blacknot]

I spoke to a tuner today who said tuning is an absolute must with CTSC. Don't even think of driving it out without a dyno tune and AEM or you may lose your SC. I didn't specify low or high boost but he implied all CTSC installs. I'm getting a bit confused now.

I am looking into a couple different options for SC install. One installer doesn't tune and the other does. I should go AEM route and get it tuned even if it's low boost?

You can defiantly run the car as is on low boost. Alot of people do. With how hard i drive my car and how lean it was i personally wasn't comfortable without fuel management. After spending 10+k on a supercharger why not spend another $1,500 and make it right?

 

[Blacknot]

That's great news! Roughly what are your ambient temps there in your side of FL? 80s? Has the humidity gotten yet?

Normal driving temp is probably around 140* right?

Yes outside temps have been 80 and i have been in 46% humidity. One the car is heat soaked my IAT is 140 under normal condition. The water/meth isn't going to cool as well as an intercooler but it is cooling and working. To do a full pull 3rd 4th and all the way through 5 th and only see a 20 degree change is good

 

[RYU]

Yes outside temps have been 80 and i have been in 46% humidity. One the car is heat soaked my IAT is 140 under normal condition. The water/meth isn't going to cool as well as an intercooler but it is cooling and working. To do a full pull 3rd 4th and all the way through 5 th and only see a 20 degree change is good

~160 degs at WOT in those gears AND at that boost level is very good. Nice work.