Long Term Updates on SOS SC/Laminova IC?

[Blacknot]

~160 degs at WOT in those gears AND at that boost level is very good. Nice work.

Im seeing about 25-30 degrees of cooling with the water/meth and Im running 8lbs of boost making around 390whp. For $400 Im very pleased with the results. My tune doesn't rely on the meth and the kit has an LED so i know when its spraying or if my tank is low. Using the kit like i am you can't beat it. Now if you are trying to spray the meth to make power that's a different story. I bought this and set it up strictly for cooling. It funny the distilled water is costing me more than the methanol since Im running 80/20

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

I spoke to a tuner today who said tuning is an absolute must with CTSC. Don't even think of driving it out without a dyno tune and AEM or you may lose your SC. I didn't specify low or high boost but he implied all CTSC installs. I'm getting a bit confused now.

I am looking into a couple different options for SC install. One installer doesn't tune and the other does. I should go AEM route and get it tuned even if it's low boost?

The Comptech/CT Engineering supercharger system is a safe, effective, and proven supercharger system for the NSX. However, there is a good point in this. The instructions included with the kit do not say to dyno test the car after installation. This is absolutely crucial because the health of the engine relies on proper performance from the fuel system. It is very possible to have a poorly performing fuel system - either because of degradation of the fuel pump, fuel filter, etc, or an installation problem - that results in engine damage. This has nothing to do with the Comptech system - but something that is overlooked, especially when having the installation done by someone, like a dealership, which may not have much experience with performance work. It's my own experience that some of the dealerships that have installed the most superchargers systems on the NSX have never dyno tested any of the vehicles. We've had numerous instances of components like the factory fuel pumps, which the systems rely on, loosing strength.

Regardless of the forced induction system installed, verification should be done on a chassis dyno after installation - and on a periodic basis - to verify proper operation and reliability.

-- Chris

 

[Blacknot]

Here is my dyno sheet on a 2000 Nsx with only 42,000 on it at 6lbs of boost with I/H/E. I find it hard to believe that the fuel pump was weak but hey anything is possible. With an FMU if you add a fuel pump you still cant get a clean tune. Sure it works but so do drum brakes so why run disk brakes? FMU='s old technology and was all that was available when comptech released this kit. Now 2012 we have fuel management. Look at my A/F!!!!! That is asking for trouble. Notice how the ECU is pulling timing up top form being lean

Next is the same car with a 255 walboro added, Aem FIC, 550cc injectors, Aem water/meth(Cooling only no added power) and Cats removed on 8lbs of boost running 11.2-11.5 A/F on 8lbs of boost. Forget the power gains and look at the graph. From what you guys have told me the Nsx motor cost 17k to replace. So why cut corners? Why not dyno? Why do you think adding a fuel pump is going to fix a problem? Sure you can run around on maxed out stock injectors with a lean motor and it might now blow up. To me thats crazy. Its your car so its your choice

 

[RYU]

Blacknot - Can refresh my memory on why you guys stopped cooling below 20-30 degs? Was the 160deg the bottom ceiling in which even if you threw more water/meth at it the temps didn't go down any lower? Why didn't you guys go further into 120/130 range? Just asking because that seems to be the sweet spot for IATs so i'm guessing you've maxed out the cooling efficiency of the 80/20 mix at your boost levels and the few examples of Meth with the CTSC seems to stop cooling below 160-180degs.

Also, if you notice my graphs before. I'm running all the stock CTSC except I swapped out the OEM fuel pump with a Walbro 255. In my case i'm actually running rich which is the opposite of what I expected and is opposite of what others like yourself have noticed in their own setups. I also made sure my entire fuel system is good as new including injectors, fuel filter etc so perhaps Chris is right? Maybe there are tired components in play.

 

[Blacknot]

Blacknot - Can refresh my memory on why you guys stopped cooling below 20-30 degs? Was the 160deg the bottom ceiling in which even if you threw more water/meth at it the temps didn't go down any lower? Why didn't you guys go further into 120/130 range? Just asking because that seems to be the sweet spot for IATs so i'm guessing you've maxed out the cooling efficiency of the 80/20 mix at your boost levels and the few examples of Meth with the CTSC seems to stop cooling below 160-180degs.

Also, if you notice my graphs before. I'm running all the stock CTSC except I swapped out the OEM fuel pump with a Walbro 255. In my case i'm actually running rich which is the opposite of what I expected and is opposite of what others like yourself have noticed in their own setups. I also made sure my entire fuel system is good as new including injectors, fuel filter etc so perhaps Chris is right? Maybe there are tired components in play.

Yes i have maxed out the cooling capability of the kit. I'm using the smallest of 3 nozzles in the kit. My tuner told me this worked best. I ran the next size up nozzle and sprayed almost twice the amount and it had no effect on the cooling.

 

[NetViper]

Next is the same car with a 255 walboro added, Aem FIC, 550cc injectors, Aem water/meth(Cooling only no added power) and Cats removed on 8lbs of boost running 11.2-11.5 A/F on 8lbs of boost. Forget the power gains and look at the graph. From what you guys have told me the Nsx motor cost 17k to replace. So why cut corners? Why not dyno? Why do you think adding a fuel pump is going to fix a problem? Sure you can run around on maxed out stock injectors with a lean motor and it might now blow up. To me thats crazy. Its your car so its your choice

I am not sure what you mean by "look at the graph". It looks the same as the previous one only with more power and bizzare tq hiccup.

FYI, I have a 2000 and the fuel pump wasn't strong enough to keep my A/F where it needs to be. Added a Walbro 255 and now it holds in 11.5-11.8 to redline with the basic CTSC kit.

You don't need to justify adding an AEM to your car to us. You wanted to run more boost, I think you took the smartest approach to doing it.

Now, the question is, are you still planning to run 12lbs of boost.

 

[Blacknot]

I am not sure what you mean by "look at the graph". It looks the same as the previous one only with more power and bizzare tq hiccup.

FYI, I have a 2000 and the fuel pump wasn't strong enough to keep my A/F where it needs to be. Added a Walbro 255 and now it holds in 11.5-11.8 to redline with the basic CTSC kit.

You don't need to justify adding an AEM to your car to us. You wanted to run more boost, I think you took the smartest approach to doing it.

Now, the question is, are you still planning to run 12lbs of boost.

I wish i could run 12lbs. Right now the most i can hold is 8lbs. Not sure if have a boost leak. Also the top pulley will be too small to achieve that boost and i will have more belt slipping issues. Im not justifying anything. I was surprised that people are not wanting the best parts or proper parts on a car like the NSX. That was before i saw threads of guys putting knock off BBS wheels that cost $650 for 4 wheels great quality. Lol. Or lets put full coilover suspension for under a grand on a Nsx. Im sorry but this car is expensive and i wouldn't buy stuff like that for a Civic. Like i said to each their own

 

[CL65 Captain]

Or lets put full coilover suspension for under a grand on a Nsx. Im sorry but this car is expensive and i wouldn't buy stuff like that for a Civic. Like i said to each their own

+1

 

[RYU]

There you guys go equating $$ with quality again. I thought there was a reason you drive the cheaper Honda and not it's Italian counterpart :wink:

 

[CL65 Captain]

There you guys go equating $$ with quality again. I thought there was a reason you drive the cheaper Honda and not it's Italian counterpart :wink:

No, not necessarily. I have JRZ RS because I track the car and need (want) the adjust-ability and being able to run different spring rates without worrying about re-valving. It also offers a nice ride on stiff spring rates. However, that being said - if I was going to do it over again I would choose lowering springs before I would ever put cheap coilovers on. Even my JRZs offer a trade off of noise and harshness compared to OEM for better handling. If my goal was just looks (lowering) I would absolutely without a doubt go the route of lowering springs before I would put ANY coilover (including big $$$ ones).

I thought there was a reason you drive the cheaper Honda and not it's Italian counterpart

No, I drive the cheaper Honda because I enjoy driving to the track, passing a whole bunch of Porsches, and driving home.

Sorry for the off topic... now back to SC. :wink:

 

[RYU]

No, not necessarily. I have JRZ RS because I track the car and need (want) the adjust-ability and being able to run different spring rates without worrying about re-valving. It also offers a nice ride on stiff spring rates. However, that being said - if I was going to do it over again I would choose lowering springs before I would ever put cheap coilovers on. Even my JRZs offer a trade off of noise and harshness compared to OEM for better handling. If my goal was just looks (lowering) I would absolutely without a doubt go the route of lowering springs before I would put ANY coilover (including big $$$ ones).

Sorry for the off topic... now back to SC. :wink:

But the assumption is all "cheap" coilovers are bad. Anyway, maybe you can't teach an old dog new tricks? JK Cap!

Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

 

[NetViper]

However, that being said - if I was going to do it over again I would choose lowering springs before I would ever put cheap coilovers on.

Having just done that, I can tell you your logic is flawed. But, I don't track the car.

 

[kookoo4nsx]

Maybe someone can explain to me how Blacknot's motor survived with AFR's in the 13+ range under 6lbs of boost?

 

[Blacknot]

Maybe someone can explain to me how Blacknot's motor survived with AFR's in the 13+ range under 6lbs of boost?

Luckily my car had less than 4,000 miles on it with the supercharger. Driving it home from Rhode Island i ran it hard twice. I have had alot of fast cars and turbo/Nitrous and im a firm believer in dyno's and proper tuning. Probably why i was able to run 32lbs of boost for several years making 700+whp. Anyways after i got the car home the very next weekend i took the car to the dyno and saw the A/f and couldnt believe it. Once the car hit 7,000 rpm the motor pulled timing from being so lean. The fact that i have guys on here like NetViper so convinced that 12lbs will blow a motor and guys keep saying Meth/water injection doesnt work just kills me I can promise you with a proper tune with is KEY and very important. The motor wont blow. You have to trust your tuner. Netviper is so fixed on i did all this to my car to make more power. Thats not the case. 400 or even 450whp just keeps up with todays Corvettes and cars. I had a car that trapped 146mph in the 1/4. I didnt buy my Nsx to go fast. I'm just tryinmg to help out and give good advice. Nobody sells turbo kits or Superchargers today with FMU's. Why someone would buy a Comptech kit when SOS sells a kit that that is so much better is beyond me. Not only does adding an AEM or FIC get a nice A/F but you can adjust timing. If you dont have access to a dyno or tuner than you better ship the car somewhere or dont go FI. My car is a prime example of what happens when you add a "bolt on kit" and hope for the best and dont dyno. FYI todays bolt on kits flash the ecu or come with a tuning solution not something like an FMU that was designed 10 years ago

 

[NetViper]

Luckily my car had less than 4,000 miles on it with the supercharger. Driving it home from Rhode Island i ran it hard twice. I have had alot of fast cars and turbo/Nitrous and im a firm believer in dyno's and proper tuning. Probably why i was able to run 32lbs of boost for several years making 700+whp. Anyways after i got the car home the very next weekend i took the car to the dyno and saw the A/f and couldnt believe it. Once the car hit 7,000 rpm the motor pulled timing from being so lean. The fact that i have guys on here like NetViper so convinced that 12lbs will blow a motor and guys keep saying Meth/water injection doesnt work just kills me I can promise you with a proper tune with is KEY and very important. The motor wont blow. You have to trust your tuner. Netviper is so fixed on i did all this to my car to make more power. Thats not the case. 400 or even 450whp just keeps up with todays Corvettes and cars. I had a car that trapped 146mph in the 1/4. I didnt buy my Nsx to go fast. I'm just tryinmg to help out and give good advice. Nobody sells turbo kits or Superchargers today with FMU's. Why someone would buy a Comptech kit when SOS sells a kit that that is so much better is beyond me. Not only does adding an AEM or FIC get a nice A/F but you can adjust timing. If you dont have access to a dyno or tuner than you better ship the car somewhere or dont go FI. My car is a prime example of what happens when you add a "bolt on kit" and hope for the best and dont dyno. FYI todays bolt on kits flash the ecu or come with a tuning solution not something like an FMU that was designed 10 years ago

You are right. I have had 2 FI NSX and you have had one for a month, but you know everything. I don't care what happens to your car at this point.

 

[Blacknot]

You are right. I have had 2 FI NSX and you have had one for a month, but you know everything. I don't care what happens to your car at this point.

Just because you have owned 2 FI Nsx doesnt have anything to do with. FI and fuel management apply to any engine. Different engines have strong and weak points. I have owned alot of different Hondas. The Nsx motor is much stronger than most other Honda motors. It even has titanium rods. The weak point is the cast pistons. Well S2000's along with all other honda motors use cast pistons and they seem to hold plenty of power. I can post many stories. Even a wimpy single cam motor can hold 12lbs all day long and then some. Most of the Nsx i have seen with blown motors is from cracked rings. Rings crack from cylinder pressure. Cylinder pressure rises from detonation . More boost with detonation the pressure can multiply 8X's. These Nsx motors are blowing on 10lbs from detonation and poor tuning. Yet im telling people to get the proper parts to make thier car run as safe as possible and you are arguing with me FI cost 10k and a motor cost 17k and you are suggesting that its basically a waste of money to do things right. I'm not trying to be a jerk to you but thats unacceptable in my eyes and im not going to sit here and let you tell someone that is going to add a supercharger to thier expensive Nsx that he will be fine running like it is. Because even if there is a 20% chance that his car could run lean like mine was then he should know the options out there. I'm sorry if this offends

 

[NetViper]

Just because you have owned 2 FI Nsx doesnt have anything to do with. FI and fuel management apply to any engine. Different engines have strong and weak points. I have owned alot of different Hondas. The Nsx motor is much stronger than most other Honda motors. It even has titanium rods. The weak point is the cast pistons. Well S2000's along with all other honda motors use cast pistons and they seem to hold plenty of power. I can post many stories. Even a wimpy single cam motor can hold 12lbs all day long and then some. Most of the Nsx i have seen with blown motors is from cracked rings. Rings crack from cylinder pressure. Cylinder pressure rises from detonation . More boost with detonation the pressure can multiply 8X's. These Nsx motors are blowing on 10lbs from detonation and poor tuning. Yet im telling people to get the proper parts to make thier car run as safe as possible and you are arguing with me FI cost 10k and a motor cost 17k and you are suggesting that its basically a waste of money to do things right. I'm not trying to be a jerk to you but thats unacceptable in my eyes and im not going to sit here and let you tell someone that is going to add a supercharger to thier expensive Nsx that he will be fine running like it is. Because even if there is a 20% chance that his car could run lean like mine was then he should know the options out there. I'm sorry if this offends

1. I never said you were wasting your money with the fic or meth. I seriously considered it with my set up, but after talking with shad it didn't seem worth if if my air fuel was ok. After the new fuel pump it was fine. If I was going to go 8lbs, I would do the same setup you did. It looks like it is working well.
2. NSX motor costs 28k, not 17k. But you can get a used one for much less.
3. I did say and still say it is not smart to try and run 12 lbs.

That's all I have to say about this.

 

[ozone]

If you are going to have engine management (AEM) with either CTSC or SOS SC are you basically at the same level of complexity? Or does the added HP of SOS with fuel pump/injector upgrades, etc add more points of failure?

I know that if you just bolt-on a CTSC it should be simpler--but once you've reached the tuning phase is there any more benefits to the CTSC in terms of less complexity?

 

[BATMANs]

If you are going to have engine management (AEM) with either CTSC or SOS SC are you basically at the same level of complexity? Or does the added HP of SOS with fuel pump/injector upgrades, etc add more points of failure?

I know that if you just bolt-on a CTSC it should be simpler--but once you've reached the tuning phase is there any more benefits to the CTSC in terms of less complexity?

replacing fuel pump and injectors isn't what I would consider adding more points of failure. I talk from experience in the FD, GTO and NSX. Never been an issue down the road.

The key in this whole equation is using the right parts the first time and tuning it properly the first time.

Once that's set in place then there shouldn't be any surprises with a NSX making around double of what the factory NSX does...

 

[RYU]

If you are going to have engine management (AEM) with either CTSC or SOS SC are you basically at the same level of complexity? Or does the added HP of SOS with fuel pump/injector upgrades, etc add more points of failure?

I know that if you just bolt-on a CTSC it should be simpler--but once you've reached the tuning phase is there any more benefits to the CTSC in terms of less complexity?

I feel like we've answered this question many times in different ways but here goes... Just make a decision and enjoy the car already :tongue::smile:

If you're planning to simply street drive your car and want the simplicity of a true bolt-on get the CT kit. Granted, it's a conservative system and the "built-in" tune uses components that aren't very precise. However, it's a safe, reliable, and headache free system IF you don't track the car (imho). Though some folks have tracked this setup heavily and haven't had any issues.

If you're going thru all the trouble of changing all the parts to upgraded versions - especially employing a EMS or F/IC then you're better off with the SOS kit. However, the entire system is only as good and as reliable as your tuner. Get a bad tuner and be ready for a potential KABOOOM! ok.. i'm exaggerating.... or am I? BATMANs can probably share his experience here. At the end of the day the SOS unit is a fine piece of kit as well and more up-to-date though lacking the CARB certs (if we want to get technical).

 

[peiserg]

1. I never said you were wasting your money with the fic or meth. I seriously considered it with my set up, but after talking with shad it didn't seem worth if if my air fuel was ok. After the new fuel pump it was fine. If I was going to go 8lbs, I would do the same setup you did. It looks like it is working well.
2. NSX motor costs 28k, not 17k. But you can get a used one for much less.
3. I did say and still say it is not smart to try and run 12 lbs.

That's all I have to say about this.

Dave, do you know anyone who actually purchased an OEM motor if it wasn't covered by insurance? Having just had my motor rebuilt, i can tell you it was $14700 including a new crank, and forged parts.
Not cheap, (unless you make Netviper money, which i don't). Quite painful, actually.

Anyhoo, I'm dissapointed oki-boy hasn't posted his favorite video yet showing an NSX doing a dyno pull.:frown:

 

[BATMANs]

.....If you're going thru all the trouble of changing all the parts to upgraded versions - especially employing a EMS or F/IC then you're better off with the SOS kit. However, the entire system is only as good and as reliable as your tuner. Get a bad tuner and be ready for a potential KABOOOM! ok.. i'm exaggerating.... or am I? BATMANs can probably share his experience here. At the end of the day the SOS unit is a fine piece of kit as well and more up-to-date though lacking the CARB certs (if we want to get technical).

I approve this message......

 

[NetViper]

Dave, do you know anyone who actually purchased an OEM motor if it wasn't covered by insurance? Having just had my motor rebuilt, i can tell you it was $14700 including a new crank, and forged parts.
Not cheap, (unless you make Netviper money, which i don't). Quite painful, actually.

Anyhoo, I'm dissapointed oki-boy hasn't posted his favorite video yet showing an NSX doing a dyno pull.:frown:

No I don't know anyone who has actually done it. I bought a 3.0 for $4500 back in the day. I haven't rebuilt one, but $14,700 would kill me.

Pretty sure netviper money is fraction of peiserg money though.

Sent from my BlackBerry Runtime for Android Apps using Tapatalk

 

[superk]

Here is an interesting read for those using meth/water injection as a replacement for a good intercooler.

http://blog.perrinperformance.com/your-sti-doesnt-need-an-intercooler-right/

Meth/water injection is a great addition to an intercooler as it lowers combustion temperatures and raises octane to prevent detonation, however it does not provide a cheap substitute for a intercooler. It should be injected after the turbo/supercharger where the compressed air is heated and will benefit the most from the cooling properties of the amount of heat energy absorbed to evaporate the mixture.

 

[peiserg]

No I don't know anyone who has actually done it. I bought a 3.0 for $4500 back in the day. I haven't rebuilt one, but $14,700 would kill me.

Pretty sure netviper money is fraction of peiserg money though.

Sent from my BlackBerry Runtime for Android Apps using Tapatalk

idk about that. have you ever visited my profile to read up about me?