Long Term Updates on SOS SC/Laminova IC?

[RYU]

I think you need:
1. larger injectors
2. AEM
3. Smaller Pulley

You also remove parts of the low boost kit if you are going AEM.

You don't HAVE to use AEM. Many high-boost don't, but I would.

I would also look into a fuel pump swap. For a short time CT sold a high-boost upgrade kit for their CTSC. IIRC it had 330 Honda Injectors among other things. Not ideal but they did sell it for a while.

From my observation from reading various threads on prime, it seems like for sc cars with similar boost, cars with meth injection make slightly more hp than cars with aftercoolers. Is it a correct statement or am I just talking out of my azz?

I'll be going with meth/water to cool down the IATs during hot long sessions in lieu of an aftercooler. I do not expect to gain any power. I'm simply trying to ward off the affects of heatsoak. Aside from the cost the issue I have with the aftecooler (i.e. Laminova, Driving Ambition, etc) is that they cool the air charge all the time. You can't just install one on a stock CTSC low boost kit...well, you can but you probably shouldn't. I'd want to run an EMS or FIC if I went with a aftercooler setup so the EMS can keep tabs on the timing.

Meth has the effect of increasing octane and can richen the mixture by .5-1 point on the AFR (ymmv). You can theoritically tune for this and run more timing, boost or what not but if your tune depends on this then when you run out of the mix, your EMS better have the ability to switch to a different "safe" map.

If you run meth on the stock CTSC tune I believe the goal is to not cool down the charge too much or you will start to knock due to the stock timing. There's a thread I started on this. I'm hoping to put some of those theories to practical use this year.

Here's an old article on water injection on a CTSC. It's tuned by Jon who's one of the most well respected tuners around.
http://www.importtuner.com/tech/imp...performance_stage_2_boost_cooler/viewall.html

 

[Blacknot]

For the summer heat this statement is more appropriate. IC is good until it gets heat soaked.

I've taken the liberty to ceramic coat the end tanks of my IC to minimize engine compartment heat from radiating into the IC. 50%~ heat reduction.

I will be taking the front mount IC and have that coated with a thermo dissipation coating that have worked in the STi community.

Meth and/or water injection will give more of a consistent performance related to where you are going with this.

My concerns with Meth are:

1. extra weight
2. what happens when u run out and someone worth like an Aventador is next to you?
3. just one more thing that can go wrong (from installation or just going bad) to deal with
4. pretty toxic stuff (inhalation and absorbs through skin)

The weight is not an issue to me. The 1 gallon tank lasts longer than you think and you can have a 3 or 5 gallon tank if you want. Like any chemical you should be careful when handling it. For me the fact that is cools IAT so effectively and ands some safety its a great option over. $2,500 intercooler.

 

[jks32]

Not many people have the Laminova IC. Batmans had one, but now uses the Driving Ambition one.

Mase just finished tuning a SOS SC car (3.0) and it put down 347rwhp on dyno dynamics.

That was my car. 1992 SOSCT with Laminova. 357 rwhp
Not the full story though....My pump output (salvaged from my prior BBSC) is a trickle at the laminova input. I am not sure yet if its is just an anemic pump or there is a kink in a line. Furthermore, my front heat exchanger is also from the BBSC; this was a school bus heater core. Needless to say, the laminova is not really in the equation yet. My IAT at WOT was over 200 and the Mase tune was correspondingly conservative.

Also, Mase has the more conservative dyno.

 

[RYU]

Jks- mind if I ask how and where are you measuring IAT? Are you using the stock sensor?

 

[jks32]

Jks- mind if I ask how and where are you measuring IAT? Are you using the stock sensor?

I had SOS drill and tap the SC intake manifold (prior to shipping) for an AEM Air temp sensor. This was position next to the stock sensor. The stock wiring is cut and connected directly to the AEM wiring. The stock sensor is not used on my vehicle. I have an AEM ECU which reads the IAT directly from the stock harness.

 

[jks32]

That was my car. 1992 SOSCT with Laminova. 357 rwhp
Not the full story though....My pump output (salvaged from my prior BBSC) is a trickle at the laminova input. I am not sure yet if its is just an anemic pump or there is a kink in a line. Furthermore, my front heat exchanger is also from the BBSC; this was a school bus heater core. Needless to say, the laminova is not really in the equation yet. My IAT at WOT was over 200 and the Mase tune was correspondingly conservative.

Also, Mase has the more conservative dyno.

Opps- I mean SOS SC.
I also have an AEM ECU and the car was tuned by Steve Mase. The SOS kit was very complete and install (by me) easy. I have been driving the car now for a few weeks. So far, no glitches or hassles. Personally, I believe that the SC is superior for the 6-9 lb boost goal. Very drivable, immediate throttle response, and less hassle/fiddle factor. Downsides are SC is noisy and limited in max power. I also have Short gears and a CT 4.55 which gives me a lot more low end acceleration and faster revs for the SC.

My rwhp is less than advertised; however, my laminova aftercooler is not really being adequately utilized. Mase's dyno reads~ 30-40 less than SOS. So that would put me in the 400 range if I were on the SOS dyno. Plus, all dynos can vary substantially between runs, ambient temp, engine heat, etc.

If you want more than the 400-420 hp, you are into more boost, need a turbo, a low compression engine build ($8K more) and more hassle.

 

[ozone]

SC is noisy? Is it a bad noisy? I thought one of the benefits of supercharging was the whine.

 

[Ric]

It's noisy in a good way.

 

[NetViper]

SC is noisy? Is it a bad noisy? I thought one of the benefits of supercharging was the whine.

If you like the whine. I think the motor sounds much better than the whine.

 

[jks32]

If you like the whine. I think the motor sounds much better than the whine.

Its moot with my RM exhaust sans cats. You really only notice the SC at WOT and that is when you want to hear it.

 

[ozone]

Do Acura dealers still support/service the NSX if it is has an aftermarket FI system in it?

 

[NetViper]

Do Acura dealers still support/service the NSX if it is has an aftermarket FI system in it?

My savannah one would not work on it with a BBSC on it. I think they would with a comptech. Probably so with a SOS since they are similar.

 

[BATMANs]

Do Acura dealers still support/service the NSX if it is has an aftermarket FI system in it?

fluid flush.....

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

My rwhp is less than advertised; however, my laminova aftercooler is not really being adequately utilized. Mase's dyno reads~ 30-40 less than SOS. So that would put me in the 400 range if I were on the SOS dyno. Plus, all dynos can vary substantially between runs, ambient temp, engine heat, etc.

Thank you for your feedback.

Please keep in mind, that the only way to gauge the performance of the supercharger is to complete a baseline prior to installation. The advertised power gain with the supercharger alone (non-intercooled) is 140 whp, which we have found to be relatively conservative - gains from customer installations at our facility and around the world have been at or greater than 140 whp. Intercooled installations are greater. You can not compare one dyno to another, since they vary. The dynamometer is a relative instrument, and a baseline will tell you what the gain actual is. There are about 30 ScienceofSpeed supercharged / intercooled NSX in the market - one of the nice aspects about the systems is they are very repeatable - usually within 5 hp gain from baseline. If your gain is more than +/- 5 whp, I suggest further investigation to determine what the difference is caused by.

Downsides are SC is noisy and limited in max power. I also have Short gears and a CT 4.55 which gives me a lot more low end acceleration and faster revs for the SC.

I am interested in this comment. In my experience, this type of screw charger is the quietest supercharger I have ever heard - including OEM supercharged applications. You should be able to *barely* hear it at idle, and it should be almost undetectable under load. This comment interest me, especially coming from a previously centrifigul supercharger (which tend to be the noisest available). Perhaps you can call and have me take a listen if you think this is a problem. Or, perhaps I misunderstood you - and you're comparing to a completely stock NSX?

cheers,
-- Chris

 

[ozone]

Chris,

Do you recommend the intercooler for the SOS or is it purely optional? I read one of your posts that it is for squeezing the "nth" amount of power out but on your site it advertises 10%, which I think is substantial.

Is the goal of the intercooler just performance or does it help prolong the life/reliability of the SOS SC system?

 

[BATMANs]

Chris,

Do you recommend the intercooler for the SOS or is it purely optional? I read one of your posts that it is for squeezing the "nth" amount of power out but on your site it advertises 10%, which I think is substantial.

Is the goal of the intercooler just performance or does it help prolong the life/reliability of the SOS SC system?

ALWAYS have an intercooler......

 

[RYU]

ALWAYS have an intercooler......

I would respectfully disagree with "ALWAYS".

 

[NetViper]

I would respectfully disagree with "ALWAYS".

+1. I agree.

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Chris,

Do you recommend the intercooler for the SOS or is it purely optional? I read one of your posts that it is for squeezing the "nth" amount of power out but on your site it advertises 10%, which I think is substantial.

Is the goal of the intercooler just performance or does it help prolong the life/reliability of the SOS SC system?

It is purely optional. The system functions absolutely fine with out it. More than 80% of the NSX with the system are non-intercooled. If the increase of 25-30 hp is worth the cost to you, it is certainly worth considering.

-- Chris

 

[RYU]

It is purely optional. The system functions absolutely fine with out it. More than 80% of the NSX with the system are non-intercooled. If the increase of 25-30 hp is worth the cost to you, it is certainly worth considering.

-- Chris

Chris, thanks for chiming in. Any reason why you folks haven't engineered a meth/water solution? I would definitely be in the market for that.

 

[BATMANs]

Chris, thanks for chiming in. Any reason why you folks haven't engineered a meth/water solution? I would definitely be in the market for that.

I researched the meth/water inj. solutions and it's a bit challenging to get an even distribution of the meth/water post top mount blower.

Ideally before the blower will ensure a more even distribution and atomization of the molecules, but that is another challenge since the compression cycle in the blower will heat up the molecules along with the air.

For some blowers that aren't KB/autorotor anodized finish there is the concerns of stripping some of the coatings if the meth is presented in the blower.

 

[Blacknot]

Chris, thanks for chiming in. Any reason why you folks haven't engineered a meth/water solution? I would definitely be in the market for that.

I'm getting my car finally tuned tomorrow with water/Meth kit since I'm using it just to cool IAT I'm going to run 20/80. You really should run an intercooler or water /Meth. Heat creates detonation. So Batman is right. Maybe he should have said "The right way" instead of that its a must

 

[Blacknot]

I researched the meth/water inj. solutions and it's a bit challenging to get an even distribution of the meth/water post top mount blower.

Ideally before the blower will ensure a more even distribution and atomization of the molecules, but that is another challenge since the compression cycle in the blower will heat up the molecules along with the air.

For some blowers that aren't KB/autorotor anodized finish there is the concerns of stripping some of the coatings if the meth is presented in the blower.

This is why I'm tuning for cooling and not going to try and make power on it. There is no way to insure all cylinders get equal Meth. The blower does break it up well and plenty of people are successful with making power this way. I just don't want to risk it

 

[BATMANs]

...... So Batman is right. Maybe he should have said "The right way" instead of that its a must

To me the right way is a must.

I've lost engines from other projects due to high IAT temps.

I suspect that most of the people that bought the NSX are in it for a "RELIABLE" exotic/sports car experience.

If they weren't into the reliable factor then there are soooooo many more options out there, starting with the used F and L cars.

So in the spirit of the NSX it ONLY makes sense to have a MUST for the intercooler solution.

I would support meth/water injection that is properly delivered.

 

[BATMANs]

Has anyone thought of spraying a mist over the inter-cooler at the front of the car to aid in heat removal?

How about thermal dissipation coatings for the very same IC?

I did the spray over my stock mount inter-cooler upgrade in the RX7 with awesome results. It's better than driving the car in the fog.