iPhone coming to Verizon?

And now with Android. All the various Android phone manufacturers can install their own front end or customized UI or adware and bloatware (Some that you can't even delete!!!) as they see fit. In short order this is going to be a confusing mess. This is one reason why MSFT is spending a lot of effort with Win Mobile 7 to validate all their 3rd party manufacturers and hold them to an enforceable minimum standard. With Google phones anything goes.

So, yes, I am restricted in some ways with Apple. If i really want a phone that has a physical keyboard, I'm out of luck.

But keep in mind that one reason for Apple's popularity with all their products is that the hardware and software just work and you don't have to fiddle-fart around.

And this notion that Apple's closed while all the other phones are "open" is nonsense, IMHO.

One more thing regarding profits and market share. Many of the GOOG and BB phones are being sold on BOGO plans. This is why Apple has a huge percentage of the profit with such a small percentage of the market. Just take a moment and ponder this chart...

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/09...ageous-share-of-the-mobile-industrys-profits/

.

You my friend have a very strong Apple bias.

Apple IS very closed. Do you know what open means? I have a Samsung Captivate and Samsung released the source code for my phone before most people owned it. Every phone can be rooted so you can do anything with it you want. If you know anything about Android you would know you got multiple releases of your phone's OS from your OEM and from people who decided to modify their own. How many versions of IOS do you have?

There are a lot of front ends and you can remove them all if you are just slightly technical. You can change just about anything with Android and yes, we can view flash websites. We have memory card slots. We have replaceable batteries. We have multiple form factors.

Windows 7 desperately needed requirements because you used to have non touchscreen phones, stylus phones, wimpy processors, all running Windows mobile and never getting updates. That's where Apple did it right. They decided they would come out with a decent hardware platform and support it well, Microsoft failed miserably with their mobile phones.

If Apple products just work, you can try explaining to me why I've got a Power Mac downstairs I'm upgrading to Leopard with the Apple and spinning thing for the last 5 hours. I can't even tell what the computer is doing because I can't see if the hard drive is moving or if the DVD drive is running. I can't even eject the DVD right now because there's no eject button. I'd love to know what that damn computer is doing right now... Not to mention the USB ports are unreliable because they worked their way loose off the motherboard and the computer is squealing louder than a Japanese pornstar.
 
(As for the others -- Blackberry is toast; only their legacy enterprise entrenchment keeps them going. Jury is still out on Windows 7, too new to tell. All other smartphone OSs will slowly disappear.)

All IMHO, of course.

I think you're spot on.
We were a blackberry only shop(up until a few months ago). Their devices are 100x more secure than iPhone/Android/Windows, but their devices just suck so bad in terms of anything outside of email. I had 3 different blackberries over the last decade and I just couldn't take it anymore.
The EVO is like having a full on computer on you. Completely different experience than a 'Storm' that takes 10 minutes to load a webpage.
 
I think you're spot on.
We were a blackberry only shop(up until a few months ago). Their devices are 100x more secure than iPhone/Android/Windows, but their devices just suck so bad in terms of anything outside of email. I had 3 different blackberries over the last decade and I just couldn't take it anymore.
The EVO is like having a full on computer on you. Completely different experience than a 'Storm' that takes 10 minutes to load a webpage.

What is the battery life like on the EVO?

What kills me more about my storm is the time it takes to reload. At least 5-10 minutes! WTF....

I got a great golf app... finally on par with the iphone version... too bad it keeps crashing in the middle of my golf round and I lose all my stats.:mad:
 
What is the battery life like on the EVO?

What kills me more about my storm is the time it takes to reload. At least 5-10 minutes! WTF....

I got a great golf app... finally on par with the iphone version... too bad it keeps crashing in the middle of my golf round and I lose all my stats.:mad:

The battery is the issue with the EVO. For me personally, coming from all blackberries, I was shocked at first. My storm could go several days without a recharge. Then again, to be fair, all I did was check email and surf the web(just a little). With the EVO, most nights I don't even pull out my laptop, I use it from the time I get home until the time I go to bed. I have 10 different tabs open in my web browser, I'm watching all my youtube blogs, etc, etc. So it gets 10x more usage.
With the 2.2 OS and a stock battery, you can expect 1 day of normal use out of it. Note, it doesn't burn the battery at night while you're sleeping(maybe 2-3%).
I've opted for the bigger battery(make the phone BIG), but I can go 3 days without a charge if needed.

One big trick with Androids is they're not locked down. Just like your windows PC, if you want to write an app and post it online, you can. This results in the possibility of poorly written apps that can hurt your battery.

But for IT/Tech guys, the EVO is the way to go. I was watching a video last night where a guy has gotten ubuntu linux to run on it. The community for the phone is just amazing...
 
Well Blackberry software only runs on Blackberry phones.
Nokia software only runs on Nokia phones.
I can't easily change the OS on my Android phone to something else, can I?
Isn't it odd that no one complains that these systems are CLOSED?

With Blackberry you can get a Curve, Bold, Storm, Torch and more. You can pick pretty much any carrier you want. Same with your other examples: you have options. With iPhone you have no options. You get one choice of phone on one choice of carrier.

With Google phones anything goes.

Again, many (including myself) see this as a major advantage of Android rather than a disadvantage.

But keep in mind that one reason for Apple's popularity with all their products is that the hardware and software just work and you don't have to fiddle-fart around.

The "just work" mantra is a Big Lie. I'll give you an example, just from yesterday. I was helping a client set up his iPhone to connect to his company's Exchange server. It didn't "just work". Indeed, it didn't work at all. I read through my notes on iPhone/Exchange setup (yes, it is sufficiently complex that I need to keep notes on it), and found that there are incompatibilities between Exchange and Gmail on iPhones -- basically, if you set up Gmail first, Exchange will never work. However, the other way 'round works fine. So I had my client remove his Gmail account, then set up Exchange (which worked fine now), and then re-add his Gmail. Does that sound like "just working" to you?

As an Apple fanboi, you will naturally blame Google or Microsoft or whomever, but in my view it's farking retarded that the order of installation of email clients is relevant in order to get them to work.

I'll go on -- even for the Exchange setup, we had to enter in the user's email address, user ID (which was different from his email address), domain name, password, and server name (which is seriously obscure). Same client, same systems, with an Android phone: Email address and password. Android figured out the rest on its own. Both iPhone and Android use ActiveSync to talk to the server, so there must be something that Android is doing much cleverer than iPhone, and if I cared longer than it will take to finish this sentence, I'd try to figure it out.
 
unless all the CDMA chips ordered were for iPads. :(

nevermind... no 3g.

True.

Good news you can get that MiFi device and connect, what, 4 devices.
Bad news, it's only good for like 4 hrs and you have to carry an extra device.
 
True.

Good news you can get that MiFi device and connect, what, 4 devices.
Bad news, it's only good for like 4 hrs and you have to carry an extra device.

Yeah, I am not sure why I would buy that on verizon. Can't you just go a mifi device to work with any ipad?

I would rather get ATT with 3g.
 
Bob,

We can all cite various anecdotal events, but when you look at recognized customer satisfaction studies...

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/09...er-satisfaction-survey-for-4th-year-in-a-row/

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/apple-dominates-pc-customer-satisfaction-hp-dell-acer-improve/39420

Obviously Apple is doing something right for a lot of people. And honestly, dont you think there's numerous "gotchas" and weirdnesses in Android?

And keep in mind in the case of the iPhone that's including the fact that AT&T is at the bottom of the customer satisfaction list.

We'll see how well the Android and MS phones do in the coming year as well as the impact of Apple branching out to multiple carriers here in the USA. And we shall also see how the legal challenges play out. Apple's patents are being granted almost daily and there are a number of patents that HTC and Google aped from Apple. Which is understandable since Google had "Eric the Mole" sitting on Apple's BOD for so long.

I do wish that Apple would diversify their phone lineup by adding other models. For example, I'd like to see an iPhone optimized for photography. The iPhone 4 is a very good camera and I'm particularly enjoying the new HDR feature, but I would like to see more. I'm glad Apple doesn't play the "spec" game by including a very high pixel count camera - just to look good in the spec sheet comparison. But still I'd like to see them offer another model with improved photos and more features.
 
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Bob,

We can all cite various anecdotal events, but when you look at recognized customer satisfaction studies...

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/09...er-satisfaction-survey-for-4th-year-in-a-row/

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/apple-dominates-pc-customer-satisfaction-hp-dell-acer-improve/39420

Obviously Apple is doing something right for a lot of people. And honestly, dont you think there's numerous "gotchas" and weirdnesses in Android?

No, I don't. I've had my Droid 2 since it was released, and haven't encountered a single "gotcha" yet. (Not even sure what that means in this context.) To steal a phrase, it "just works".

As for the Cust Sat surveys, frankly, I don't believe them. There's a cult of Apple, and if you don't recognize that it's only because you're in it. I do IT support, and I can tell you straight up that Macs and iPhones encounter just as many problems as Windows PCs and other smartphones. But there's a crucial difference: whenever there's a problem with a Mac, the user always blames somebody else. It's never Apple's fault.

To whit: I have a client who was having trouble with Apple Mail connecting with their company's Exchange server. We researched it thoroughly, and determined that it was a documented bug in Apple Mail. We even showed the client the notes from Apple about it. Their response? "So when are YOU going to fix the bug?" What can you say to this kind of person? Even when Apple admits to a bug, they don't accept it and blame someone else. Their mail doesn't work, and yet I'd wager if asked about their Apple customer satisfaction, they'd give it top marks. Satisfaction for me, less so.

Please, don't take these comments the wrong way. I'm not a hater. I would actually own an iPhone, if there was one with a physical keyboard. For whatever it's worth, I can not type on a touchscreen keyboard. I've tried. I can't. I'm OK with this. The Droid 2 keyboard is an absolute dream to type on. My beef comes to people who proclaim Apple = Wonderful; Everything Else = Sucks. To my view, they're all mostly the same. I had a Mac from work for the longest time, and used it as my primary computer until they asked for it back. It was fine; I got stuff done. But I didn't have any sort of religious experience with it, and when it came time to return to my Windows PC, I didn't feel crestfallen over it either. They're just tools of my trade.
 
No, I don't. I've had my Droid 2 since it was released, and haven't encountered a single "gotcha" yet. (Not even sure what that means in this context.) To steal a phrase, it "just works".

I think Androids work better than the iphones.
iPhones have always been plagued with massive security flaws.
Right now, as of 10.15.10, iPhones are the only devices I'm having trouble with having sync with exchange. Apparently it's a known issue with Apples IOS 4.0 and can bring down the entire exchange server if left unchecked.
 
Well, as you might expect I disagree.

The problems that my friends (and they come to me because I'm the guy who knows computers) who have Android phones are much more prevalent than those who own iPhones.

They all complain about crappy battery life. ALL of them.

Screen registration off from where you touch it. Reboot fixes.

They routinely have 3g connection issues. Many of them.

SD Card issues/confusion - No apps on card?

Wifi fails to connect.

It's good thing you can remove the battery, because often that and a reboot is the only way to solve the problem.

And finally they are really disappointed with Flash. Doesn't work on many sites. Inconsistent. Poor performance. Jerky video. They often say, now i know why Jobs didn't want it.

Anyway, this thread is getting way off topic. It was about iPhone coming to Verizon. It will be interesting to see how many AT&T jump ship and how many new Verizon customers are added, and how many more iPhones are sold.


Disclaimer: I happen to like Apple products. I own a fair number of Apple products. I use a PC at least 8 hours a day. I have done systems consulting and integration for some of the largest companies in the world. I have taught classes on computer networking. I do not consider myself a fanboi for Apple or for Microsoft (since I use Windows most of my waking hours).
 
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With regard to the Exchange Server problem, well it seems that this is not an iPhone only problem. Some Android users were having similar problems.

Regardless, Apple has posted a fix/workaround here...

http://support.apple.com/kb/TS3398

-J
 
Jimbo you are wrong on so many levels and as NetViper once correctly pointed out before I realized it, you are huge apple fanboi. The Exchange problem did not happen with Android. You CAN have apps on SD cards. 3G connection issues are problems with all phones and usually not OS related. Ditto with wifi connections. Flash works fine for me with all websites I visit. Battery issues are phone dependent, you can get extended life batteries for phones that have poor battery life. Some phones have great battery life from the box.

The funniest thing about all the stuff you're complaining about is that they are/were all complaints about the different versions of the iPhone with the exception of Flash which the iPhone doesn't have.

Anyhow, Apple's got a similar problem to Antennagate brewing with the back glass cracking when you use slide on cases. It seems if certain types of debris gets trapped back there it rubs and leads to the glass on the back cracking. About 4% of users have also experienced cracked back glass (not just from this).
 
You're just wrong, MR.

There was indeed problems with Exchange on Android and it is documented. Apple had issues too and have released a workaround as I mentioned.

The 3g and Wifi problems seen by certain Androids users was also indeed real and documented, and it wasn't just typical connection problems.

Battery life is a known Android phone complaint. Some are worse than others.

Hey, you don't have to believe me, just go on any of the Android forums and you'll see many people with the problems I cited. Although I guess it's easier calling people names.

Can we get back on topic instead of having Apple-haters and name callers crash all iPhone threads?
 
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I do read the Android forums, xda developers, etc. You're bringing up a lot of anecdotal and baseless claims. Most have little or nothing to do with the Android OS so much as user error or faulty hardware. I've had mobile e-mail users on Android since way back when it first came out in addition to Apple iPhones. We never had an issue with Exchange server until recently the new iOS bogged the Exchange servers down. This is both with my hosted Exchange accounts and servers that I maintain. Our Exchange host blocked the iPhones when this problem occurred.

Sorry to digress but you're just spewing nonsense and I don't think you're technically strong enough engage in this discussion. I run a business supporting Macs, PCs, network equipment and these peripherals and I used to lead a fortune 100 company doing similar things. I get my hands dirty all the time, every day, it's what I do. I just repaired 2 Macbook Pros and 2 Power Macs this week and it's fixing these stupid problems with them that make me love to rain down on your Mac parade. It's clear to me that you aren't as involved and you're just slamming Android because you, like Apple, are hearing and fearing it's uprise. I do have a bias against Apple because I have to fix the lamest issues with them and hate how difficult they make it to fix things because they dumb up the whole computer. One Power Mac had the USB ports work loose off the motherboard which I've never seen before with a PC. I've done several of these BGA repairs on dead Macbook Pros over the last few months, it's just poor design. But I won't complain too much because for a computer that has 10% of the market, it makes up for about 20% of my business. I can say with absolute certainty they have more problems, more stupid problems, more expensive problems than PCs.

Anyhow, I apologize for digressing. There is some on topic stuff at least. :)
 
I run a business supporting Macs, PCs, network equipment and these peripherals and I used to lead a fortune 100 company doing similar things


Wow, MR. I had no idea to whom I was talking with. So, that must of been some F-100 company that allowed their CEO or President the time to fix PCs. Most impressive.

Anyway...

http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/android/thread?tid=11a0167b2ed64c3b&hl=en

I like what this guy says from the above link (although I think he's really an Apple fanboi, don't you)...

"...I own htc legend for 2 months. I have the same problem here. Android sucks!!! I dont understand why i-phone and winmob user can easily sync with exchange, but not android. I'm surely buy i-phone 4 once it enter the market and throw my legend into dustbin. arghhhhhhh"

And then there's this...

http://www.droidforums.net/forum/te...suggestions/31690-exchange-server-issues.html

I don't get it. These guys must have missed MR's lecture that clearly states there are no Android-Exchange problems, just Apple fanbois looking to start trouble. Buahaahahaa!!

Anyway, if you Google "Android problems exchange server" you'll see pages and pages of people having similar problems.

Oh, by the way MR what degrees do you have? Just so, that I can figure out if I'm "technically strong" enough to engage in this discussion?

Oh, I had a thought, maybe your business is small enough where you're just not seeing the level of traffic to make a statistically meaningful conclusion?
 
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Wow, MR. I had no idea to whom I was talking with. So, that must of been some F-100 company that allowed their CEO or President the time to fix PCs. Most impressive.

2 separate jobs, are you reading?

http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/android/thread?tid=11a0167b2ed64c3b&hl=en

I like what this guy says from the above link (although I think he's really an Apple fanboi, don't you)...

"...I own htc legend for 2 months. I have the same problem here. Android sucks!!! I dont understand why i-phone and winmob user can easily sync with exchange, but not android. I'm surely buy i-phone 4 once it enter the market and throw my legend into dustbin. arghhhhhhh"

These people are having isolated incidents syncing with Exchange. My phone works on 2.1 and 2.2 with the built in mail client and with Touchdown. Do you see some comments that Touchdown works? What does that tell you? It's not the OS, it's the mail client on that device. There are so many little things that can screw up whether or not it works like how they tweaked their phone or how they setup their server and network. What you're doing is digging up a few complaints and doing no in depth research to figure out why the problem exists. What you learn after working in tech is that most problems are caused by user error. I'm not saying that some phone problems don't exist with crappy phones like the HTC Legend, but this is no fault of Android because I use it without issues and I have it deployed large scale without issues. The only problem with e-mail that I hear about is they don't like the native mail app so we use Touchdown instead.

And then there's this...

http://www.droidforums.net/forum/te...suggestions/31690-exchange-server-issues.html

I don't get it. These guys must have missed MR's lecture that clearly states there are no Android-Exchange problems, just Apple fanbois looking to start trouble. Buahaahahaa!!

Again another isolated incident as my Droid users have not had issues. But the big issue you have is that you don't realize the difference with Apple's exchange problem. I haven't really brought up all the issues they had synching mail before, they exist, but it's trivial. The problem is that iOS 4 had was that it caused the Exchange server to crash. This is much different that a mail client failing to sync. It worked fine before iOS 4 but Apple thought they would change the code and make it check more and hold the connection without letting it go.

Oh, by the way MR what degrees do you have? Just so, that I can figure out if I'm "technically strong" enough to engage in this discussion?

Oh, I had a thought, maybe your business is small enough where you're just not seeing the level of traffic to make a statistically meaningful conclusion?

UCLA Econ with specialization in computing
MCSE NT 3.51, NT 4, Windows 2003
Citrix Certified Enterprise Administrator
HP & Dell server trained
I have tons of other certs from things like Netapp, TrendMicro, HP SIM, Legato, Exchange, Cisco, VMWare, all kinds of weird software you never heard of, etc. I worked at IBM Corporate and most recently Amgen, you ever heard of them? They sent me to a ton of training, seminars, conferences... But the thing you need the most for troubleshooting these things is to grow up on a diet of 2600.

But anyhow, I don't need to know your education to recognize you're just being a fanboi and don't have any real world experience. Certs and education don't make for a good technician, any tech will tell you that. I've worked with high school dropouts, no certs, that will outperform an Ivy leaguer with tons of certs. When push comes to shove in this discussion, I got my hands on all these phones and support them everyday, this is what counts and makes my statements relevant.
 
I love how you flip it off by saying these are isolated incidents. It wouldn't matter how many of these "isolated incidents" I would post, you would still dismiss them.

Just like Bob's refusal to believe independent 3rd party satisfaction studies.

There's also several independent IT studies that prove that Mac support costs are significantly lower than Windows but i didn't bother posting those because these would be dismissed out of hand as well. It's hard to have a discussion with people when they selectively dismiss facts without reason.

You see, even when I show specific examples of Exchange Server problems (even from Google's own web site) these get dismissed too. I and posted these instances because Bob and you refused to acknowledge that Android had any Exchange Server problems at all. Then, when I clearly show there were problems, all you can say is that these were "isolated". Some companies had a 30% rate of Exchange server problems with their Android phones, so if that's isolated....

I spent a good week tracking down my friend's problem and hanging on customer services lines for hours. It was eventually fixed, but during this escapade and through the research I did, I knew there was a real problem and Google knew about (PS: I have several friends who work at Google). And yes, there was also a problem with iOS too and I dealt with that as well. I submitted two bug reports to Apple on the problem. Unlike you, at least I'm able to view the situation without bias. I mean you've already admitted to hating Apple products and I think that's clouding your vision.

I don't have a degree in economics, but mechanical engineering and computer science, so I figure I'm more than competent to hang in there with you on any technical discussion you care to have. Yeah, so no, I'm not a repair guy nor do I work for the Geek Squad, but I've actually designed and built products and systems at the hardware and software level.

But most of all, I just love how you make unfounded accusations and assumptions about my education, training and experience, and claim I have no real world experience. LOL. These are things which you have no idea of which you speak. Rather than debate FACTS, you would rather make these half-baked assumptions and try to demean me.

So that alone tells me an awful lot about how your thought processes work. It shows that you're willing to make definitive statements about things which you have zero knowledge on. That really tells anyone everything they need to know, and that shortcoming trumps education all the time.

PS: It must really tee you off that Apple is doing so well these days, huh?
 
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Jimbo, I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you but you're like the typical Mac user. You think you're technical when you're not. Honestly, you're bringing up anecdotal evidence from discussion forums and I could do the same thing. Hell if I Google exploding iPhone I bet you I'd find results but I'm intelligent enough to know it's isolated. My evidence all comes from experience and I could introduce you to my clients that can concur what what I'm saying. Experience always trumps a book reader. I lead the Mac to PC migration at Amgen and we saved huge on it as well as created a standard we could live with. Along the way I ran into a lot of fanbois like yourself who wouldn't let go and I'm very familiar with the Mac user community. I remember the arguments that their Mac was faster when it wasn't, then when they started using PC hardware that conversation just disappeared. Funny thing was during my tenure there I was offered a position at Apple in Santa Monica, CA to work on their server product. To say you have no bias is ridiculous but it's clear you have no experience. My small businesses have tons of these devices which I work with on a regular basis. You can say your friend has this your friend has that but I seriously doubt you've even touched an Android phone let alone worked with one. I've got gobs and gobs of e-mails from dealing with the iPhone issues, I just searched my mail. Anyhow, I love Apple's 10% of the PC market, like I said, I prosper from their poor hardware design and failures. I made a ton of money exporting the iPhones when they first came out.

At any rate, it's better to end this conversation at least from my side it's clear the only experience you have is your iPhone and what Jobs tells you.
 
Jimbo, I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you but you're like the typical Mac user. You think you're technical when you're not. Honestly, you're bringing up anecdotal evidence from discussion forums and I could do the same thing. Hell if I Google exploding iPhone I bet you I'd find results but I'm intelligent enough to know it's isolated. My evidence all comes from experience and I could introduce you to my clients that can concur what what I'm saying. Experience always trumps a book reader. I lead the Mac to PC migration at Amgen and we saved huge on it as well as created a standard we could live with. Along the way I ran into a lot of fanbois like yourself who wouldn't let go and I'm very familiar with the Mac user community. I remember the arguments that their Mac was faster when it wasn't, then when they started using PC hardware that conversation just disappeared. Funny thing was during my tenure there I was offered a position at Apple in Santa Monica, CA to work on their server product. To say you have no bias is ridiculous but it's clear you have no experience. My small businesses have tons of these devices which I work with on a regular basis. You can say your friend has this your friend has that but I seriously doubt you've even touched an Android phone let alone worked with one. I've got gobs and gobs of e-mails from dealing with the iPhone issues, I just searched my mail. Anyhow, I love Apple's 10% of the PC market, like I said, I prosper from their poor hardware design and failures. I made a ton of money exporting the iPhones when they first came out.

At any rate, it's better to end this conversation at least from my side it's clear the only experience you have is your iPhone and what Jobs tells you.


hehe, I like your new avatar. :tongue:
 
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