Ferrari makes this and we get the ASCC

[Silver F16]

Hondas sportcars have never been half ass and they've proven that. Don't they deserve the benefit of the doubt until the new car comes out and gets tested?

Your optimism is refreshing. I'm not as optimistic as you are. Honda showed the car in detroit and now you see videos of it lapping Nurburgring. This shows they are progressing along to making the Fat Pig a reality. It may get a face lift from what they showed in Detroit, but a hardcore, light weight sports car of Honda present and past it will not likely be.

Yes, Honda made good sports cars. I'm not convinced that will stay the same with the current management. Fukui is a different animal. A true NSX successor will come after Fukui is succeeded.

 

[TC]

That is why through out the history of Ferrari, they have came close of going out of business numerous time, until Fiat came to the rescue. I'm curious to see when the next major recession hits, how many cars can Ferrari sell. Sorry bro, if you want to make that kind of arguement, you should bring in every manufactures other than Ferrari and Lambo. Ferrarri might be pure, but their market segment was set the moment they manufacture cars. You can't compete with a company like that when they very much own the monopoly of that market. ASC or not, I much rather see Honda be the front runner of enviornmentally friend car manufacture. Don't forget, Honda is venturing into new area such as air plane and humanoid robots.

I never know if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me.

My point was if a company promotes and positions themselves to be a certain thing (within a market), it is very, very hard for them to sell a product that is the opposite of what they espose to be. Whether Ferrari fell on hard times in the past is [FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']irrelevant [/FONT]to Honda's ability to be the green/efficient family car company yet still manage to sell something to rival the F430. My point is that you can't be all things to all people - especially for products at two ends of the spectrum.

As for Honda's positioning - I agree that it is better/great business for them to be the green/practical company. I've said before that the proposed Honda V10 is downright silly and stupid, and not needed. A 450 hp V6 in a chassis akin to the NSX or HSC would serve well.

 

[nsxotic911]

I like that it doesn't have a glove compartment and instead a net, smart, it's less weight.. I am thinking about ditching mine

 

[BD]

I never know if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me.

My point was if a company promotes and positions themselves to be a certain thing (within a market), it is very, very hard for them to sell a product that is the opposite of what they espose to be. Whether Ferrari fell on hard times in the past is [FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']irrelevant [/FONT]to Honda's ability to be the green/efficient family car company yet still manage to sell something to rival the F430. My point is that you can't be all things to all people - especially for products at two ends of the spectrum.

As for Honda's positioning - I agree that it is better/great business for them to be the green/practical company. I've said before that the proposed Honda V10 is downright silly and stupid, and not needed. A 450 hp V6 in a chassis akin to the NSX or HSC would serve well.

Honda is known for trying out new stuff. Regardless how people think of it. I would like to think Honda is kinda like Sony in the electronic market, produce great product can't sell to people.

For example, we all know back in the days, the Betamax was better than VHS (NSX better than the 348/355), and mini disc was a wonderful idea (S2k), etc, etc. But no one really bought into their program. However, while trying out new stuff, they kept the standard product at a very high level.

This new FR V10 may not be most of our cup of tea, but it is going to be some thing new from Honda. A 450HP V6 in the HSC will simply position that car directly with Porsche TT; the fact that the NSX can't out sell the regular 911 is a good indication that the 450HP HSC will not sell well either. But again, that never happened, so we shall never know.

 

[WingZ]

Your optimism is refreshing. I'm not as optimistic as you are. Honda showed the car in detroit and now you see videos of it lapping Nurburgring. This shows they are progressing along to making the Fat Pig a reality. It may get a face lift from what they showed in Detroit, but a hardcore, light weight sports car of Honda present and past it will not likely be.

Yes, Honda made good sports cars. I'm not convinced that will stay the same with the current management. Fukui is a different animal. A true NSX successor will come after Fukui is succeeded.

Well actually Honda showed us a "concept" and said that this was the styling direction they were going in. People complained so they said back to the styling drawing board. Hopefully we'll see something more finalized at the Tokyo autoshow. Also we haven't seen any videos of it lapping just a stretched S2000 I'm honestly excited about seeing a real prototype in action ( if you go back you'll see I defended the fat pig..LOL ) I'm with you on wanting something lightweight ,but if I follow Honda history their sportscars are always lighter than their competition so there's hope that it won't be too heavy. I'm not excited about the SHAWD ,but I've never driven any of their SHAWD cars so maybe I'd like it if I gave it a shot.

Anwser me this one thing. How come people don't call the Skyline or LF-A fat azz cars as both will be heavier by DNA than the NSXs replacement?:biggrin:

 

[Silver F16]

We call ASCC a fat pig because it will be Fat and all that fat will make it corner like a PIG.:biggrin:

I guess when a company discontinues a lightweight sports car and shows a car such as the ASCC as it successor, one can only compare to its predessor. GTR was never about light weight and all Lexus are heavy. So we can call them all FAT Pigs if you insist. I must say the LF-A body appeared much more composed in Nuburgring compared to the Honda test mule.

Yea Honda went back to re-style it. But is likely a re-skin, not a platform change from FR to MR. The test mule has similar proportions and size as the ASCC.

 

[rasir_x]

This New Lotus Esprit doesn't look half bad either.

<img src="http://www.lotusespritworld.com/images/NewEsprit/Car_May06/Car_May06_02.jpg">

 

[sotiri]

well you say the LF-A was more composed... but isnt it supposed to be FR too?
I thought I saw where Lexus confirmed it was FR, not MR.

 

[awsomr1]

Now if I can only afford both...

 

[NSXGMS]

We call ASCC a fat pig because it will be Fat and all that fat will make it corner like a PIG.:biggrin:

I guess when a company discontinues a lightweight sports car and shows a car such as the ASCC as it successor, one can only compare to its predessor. GTR was never about light weight and all Lexus are heavy. So we can call them all FAT Pigs if you insist. I must say the LF-A body appeared much more composed in Nuburgring compared to the Honda test mule.

Yea Honda went back to re-style it. But is likely a re-skin, not a platform change from FR to MR. The test mule has similar proportions and size as the ASCC.

I don't think there were too many people criticizing the ASCC until Honda officially confirmed it as the NSX successor, which was a joke. That's when people got really upset, especially on Prime. Early criticism came after the car mags wouldn't stop using "NSX successor" when discussing it but I for one never thought in a million years that Honda would actually claim that pig or anything like it as an NSX successor.

Let the ASCC stand on it's own. I have no problem with Honda introducing the ASCC or a V-10 or whatever they want to do. But when they tried to sell us the bill of goods that it was the NSX successor, meaning it would embody the same philosophy, that's what really made no sense and outraged everyone.

Honda's lack of respect for the customer, Fukui's misleading statements, the lack of statements and his previous track record of letting both the NSX and S2K die slow, painful, undeserved deaths and his use of the NSX and what it stood for solely for the purpose of selling his new project car make him public enemy #1. I have no problem with Honda focusing on Civics but come out and say so, don't mislead and string us along for years.

Based on the lack of info on the ASCC or the V-10 and that patched-together S2000 mule I don't think Honda has anything planned, certainly not for 2009. If we don't hear anything definitive by the end of this year 2010 is unlikely as well.

 

[DocL]

Honda should just wait until 2011 and then release a 20th Aniversary Edition NSX. By then hopefully they'll get their heads out of their a$$e$.

 

[BioBanker]

yeah this car looks to be awesome, but it wouldnt serve my purposes nearly as well as my NSX does.

I still lust for it. It would be painful to own (for me) though. Id not be able to do the things I love to do in my car, in that.

 

[dave22]

The new model is a special series based on the F430 and is aimed specifically at Ferrari's most passionate and sports-driving oriented clients.

Their most passionate sports-driving oriented clients don't want a clutch pedal?

Wow.

 

[WingZ]

Their most passionate sports-driving oriented clients don't want a clutch pedal?

Wow.

Faster shifts plain and simple. F1 technology is only good for everything ,but how you engage the clutch

yeah this car looks to be awesome, but it wouldnt serve my purposes nearly as well as my NSX does.

I still lust for it. It would be painful to own (for me) though. Id not be able to do the things I love to do in my car, in that.

Nutshell!

 

[NSXGMS]

Their most passionate sports-driving oriented clients don't want a clutch pedal?

Wow.

Abslolutely not. F1 shifting is the fastest, most efficient method of shifting available today. Manual transmissions have become obsolete.

Anyone that claims they still prefer a manual tranny over an F1 tranny simply doesn't care about going faster than the next guy. I'll take the F1 tranny all day long. It even allows for left foot braking.

 

[TURBO2GO]

My point was that this car pictured is just oozing with style. Its got so much style that style is coming out its ass. It makes the R8 look butt ugly. I look at the ASCC and it doesn't do much for me. I just wanted an updated NSX... not this ASCC thing that doesn't make any sense.

I look at this Ferrari and its like seeing a super hot woman.... you want it, but you know that its going to just kick your ass with annoyances. I drive my NSX... can I drive that thing? no. Not without major headaches. That's why I want something from Honda. Am I asking too much? I don't need the Ferrari name, just a really EXCITING car from Honda. Does anyone there know what that word means anymore?

 

[CarCrazed4Life]

That is a fantastic car... But the reason why it became a Honda bash was:

1) we have an NSX that WAS priced at Porsche 911 C2 Money and competed with Ferrari's 328. It was a bargain. Not Now.

2) Lotus's new Esprit will have a High revving V8 from BMW, doing 400hp and weigh in at 3300lbs. Price will be right at $100,000.

3) Audi is doing the samething with good success with the R8 (not based of number sold yet, but off comparison in magazines)

4) Honda could have done the same. Honda had prototype engines out in 2000-2002 with 2 s2000 motors pushing 4.4 litters and 460hp. Even today, Honda has not denied the development of a V8 using 2 4cylinders with a common crank similar to the TSX/RDX/RSX motors. And we know the RDX is capable of a Turbo, so a twin turbo V8 is also doable... Using mainly parts already in the parts department.

And with a Rear Wheel bias SH-AWD installed on an Acura Mid Engine Layout sports car, wth the reliabilty and engine choices of a 3.x V6 ~ 350hp, 4.x V8 wit ~ 450hp, and a TT V8 ~ 550hp... The NSX range would be just as competetive with the Porsche 911 range price wise, while beating Audi, Lotus, Ferrari, and Lambo at their range.

But Honda wanted Volume. They see the 6-series, SL, and Corvette. They wanted that volume in their line up. What they don't realize is that just like the RL was a compromise, the next NSX might be also if it isn't done properly. And Honda can't afford to make a mistake this time. Not if it wants to catch up to Toyota/

 

[6spdterror]

That is a fantastic car... But the reason why it became a Honda bash was:

1) we have an NSX that WAS priced at Porsche 911 C2 Money and competed with Ferrari's 328. It was a bargain. Not Now.

2) Lotus's new Esprit will have a High revving V8 from BMW, doing 400hp and weigh in at 3300lbs. Price will be right at $100,000.

3) Audi is doing the samething with good success with the R8 (not based of number sold yet, but off comparison in magazines)

4) Honda could have done the same. Honda had prototype engines out in 2000-2002 with 2 s2000 motors pushing 4.4 litters and 460hp. Even today, Honda has not denied the development of a V8 using 2 4cylinders with a common crank similar to the TSX/RDX/RSX motors. And we know the RDX is capable of a Turbo, so a twin turbo V8 is also doable... Using mainly parts already in the parts department.

And with a Rear Wheel bias SH-AWD installed on an Acura Mid Engine Layout sports car, wth the reliabilty and engine choices of a 3.x V6 ~ 350hp, 4.x V8 wit ~ 450hp, and a TT V8 ~ 550hp... The NSX range would be just as competetive with the Porsche 911 range price wise, while beating Audi, Lotus, Ferrari, and Lambo at their range.

But Honda wanted Volume. They see the 6-series, SL, and Corvette. They wanted that volume in their line up. What they don't realize is that just like the RL was a compromise, the next NSX might be also if it isn't done properly. And Honda can't afford to make a mistake this time. Not if it wants to catch up to Toyota/

Well said.

I work for honda/acura and everyone knows they have 5 year lifespan on all their cars before a major update. All their cars except the NSX and S2000. Those 2 cars pretty much remained the same from birth to death. They need to update their sports cars just like the do the accords and civics etc.

 

[davidf]

I just can't get enough of that start button on the steering wheel. Oh and maybe them seats too!:tongue:

 

[WingZ]

That is a fantastic car... But the reason why it became a Honda bash was:

1) we have an NSX that WAS priced at Porsche 911 C2 Money and competed with Ferrari's 328. It was a bargain. Not Now./

Actually that was the 348 and the Ferrari didn't really surpass the NSX until the F430. The NSX was still competitive with the F360

2) Lotus's new Esprit will have a High revving V8 from BMW, doing 400hp and weigh in at 3300lbs. Price will be right at $100,000./

Lotus can't mantain good reliability on a car with an engine from Toyota:biggrin: Also the Lotus is supposed to be priced more along the lines of $170K not $100K

3) Audi is doing the samething with good success with the R8 (not based of number sold yet, but off comparison in magazines)/

Audi R8 is heavy AWD and costs more than it's competition. Both of those things are very un-NSX

4) Honda could have done the same. Honda had prototype engines out in 2000-2002 with 2 s2000 motors pushing 4.4 litters and 460hp. Even today, Honda has not denied the development of a V8 using 2 4cylinders with a common crank similar to the TSX/RDX/RSX motors. And we know the RDX is capable of a Turbo, so a twin turbo V8 is also doable... Using mainly parts already in the parts department./

Honda never had a prototype of two S2000 engines that was just an idea one of the magazines suggested. Turbo in a truck is okay to Honda ,but not in a sportscar they've always disdained turbos.

And with a Rear Wheel bias SH-AWD installed on an Acura Mid Engine Layout sports car, wth the reliabilty and engine choices of a 3.x V6 ~ 350hp, 4.x V8 wit ~ 450hp, and a TT V8 ~ 550hp... The NSX range would be just as competetive with the Porsche 911 range price wise, while beating Audi, Lotus, Ferrari, and Lambo at their range./

I don't know why Honda has never done a V8. That would've seemed a more logical choice than the V10 ,but maybe they felt they would have to do this someday anyway. Unless it's just to copy Toyota Honda seems to want a big powerful engine which is very un-Honda at the moment so maybe their is some change going on internally.

But Honda wanted Volume. They see the 6-series, SL, and Corvette. They wanted that volume in their line up. What they don't realize is that just like the RL was a compromise, the next NSX might be also if it isn't done properly. And Honda can't afford to make a mistake this time. Not if it wants to catch up to Toyota/

LOL All car companys want volume can't blame them for that. We don't won't Honda to catch up to Toyota because doing that is what seems to be causing some old Honda buyers to not like their current offerings. Also Honda can afford to make mistakes. Their sales keep going up and some models are selling as many as they make so they have quite a bit of breathing space as they continue to make their bread and butter cars better every generation.

 

[Spooler]

Lbb

 

[my1stnsx]

Lbb

OMG...Blue is 100 times better!!!:smile:

 

[dave22]

Abslolutely not. F1 shifting is the fastest, most efficient method of shifting available today. Manual transmissions have become obsolete.

Anyone that claims they still prefer a manual tranny over an F1 tranny simply doesn't care about going faster than the next guy. I'll take the F1 tranny all day long. It even allows for left foot braking.

"The most passionate sports-driving oriented" people shouldn't be the ones willing to sacrafice the fun just to save a few clicks on a stopwatch, should they?

Since when is passion about a clock?

I bet all the whiz-bang paddle shift jockeys can't wait until the steering wheel is obsolete. That way they can just strap in and let their cars race each other around the track.

 

[WingZ]

OMG...Blue is 100 times better!!!:smile:

Say it loud say it proud:biggrin:

Lbb

OMG now it's perfect

 

[WingZ]

"The most passionate sports-driving oriented" people shouldn't be the ones willing to sacrafice the fun just to save a few clicks on a stopwatch, should they?

Since when is passion about a clock?

I bet all the whiz-bang paddle shift jockeys can't wait until the steering wheel is obsolete. That way they can just strap in and let their cars race each other around the track.

LOL you guys just don't want to give up pushing in a clutch pedal:biggrin:

Honestly Dave it's still a manual and won't change gears unless you let it and when you shift it's rocks just like a manual your just doing it with your finger tips. It's a lot of fun.