Apple iPad

Ilya, is there a specific app you're planning on using, or are you guys developing your own in-house?

The reason I'm asking is that I did a lot of work in this area a few years ago and have amassed a very thorough database of IR codes and devices. We also had a very good activity based design.

I haven't touched this project in some time, so the device mappings would have to be reworked, but given a good partner something like this could evolve into the defacto high end home automation and AV control SW for iPad. One of our big challenges a few years ago was developing a cheap WiFi+Blaster device. It seems like there are a few of these around now, and if you go to China, it would be even cheaper to mass produce your own. Thoughts? Given some of the established products out there, if you had a compelling and competitive product, what could you sell a turnkey solution for? $1000? $1500? $2000?

The manufacturers already have (or some will soon have) their own apps for their products. While knowing this generally hurts their touchpanel/remote sales, they realize they have no choice to embrace it or be left behind. So the app itself for each brand is not an issue, it's available. However, because the products themselves are custom, the app itself is simply a tool that allows the use of the IPAD as a remote. It doesn't do anything besides establish a connection with their product. Our job is to create the templates and designs and do the actual integration.

The idea of the wifi-ir isn't a bad one (I think one already exists for Iphone with app and all), but people who are still using direct IR for their system control do not have that kind of budget. If you are doing direct IR, it has to be cheap... like Logitech Harmony cheap and self programmable. It's something that manufactureres sell direct to consumer and specialty dealers like us generally won't touch because there is no profit in it on our end. It's an entry level solution. If you can design and manufacture them cheap, market and distribute them, there is certainly money to be made. It's such a popular idea that I'm surprised they aren't already flooding the market, so I guess the opportunity is still there.

However, anyone who can afford over 1k for an automation remote isn't in the direct IR category anymore. If someone were to design their own app for IPAD, I honestly believe the future is no longer in direct infrared signaling. It's a wifi device and it simply needs a wifi controller at the equipment location. The IR database is necessary of course, but the IPAD would communicate WiFi to that device, which in turn would execute all the commands. It's only a matter of time before TV and electronics manufacturers start creating apps of their own so you can control their device with your Iphone/IPAD.

It already exists for certain products. TVs already connect to the Internet and stream content, wired and/or wifi. It's not going to be too long before TVs and other electronics are streaming content directly from your home computer, along with Internet access and Netflix. Some already do it. Any of those manufacturers could release an app that communicates directly with their device over wifi. Some components like DirecTV boxes and certain new Samsung LEDs actually use RF remotes instead of IR. The next evolution happening right now is the move to WiFi control. There will be devices that can establish an ad-hoc connection directly between itself and the device over wi-fi without the need of any other wifi network. This will be how automation control happens in the future. In the meantime, it is already wi-fi, but since the devices don't have that functionality yet, we still have to rely on a processor firing IR codes via emitters to those same devices.

So unfrotunately I'm not currently working on any direct IR based solutions as I feel that is already coming from a lot of the "big boys" that us small guys can't compete with. It's going to be more of a commodity product, priced very low and sold at large volumes to make a profit. Fortunately, that kind of setup is still entry level and its simply replacing a small $100 IR remote with a fancier, more expensive IPhone or IPAD. It's going to get huge, no doubt, but its going to happen at the mass-market commodity level.

Fortunately, that kind of control still isn't playing in the big leagues with the kind of control systems we are working with, so its not a threat to our business model. Our business model is to integrate the IPAD with the control systems we use. That is also a game-changer in the sense you can use the IPAD instead of a remote at multiple times its price. Due to the power of the control system running the show in the background, the IPAD will have an enormous amount more capability than the entry-level solutions. It will require no line of sight, have full feedback capability from all devices, and will control home devices like lights/hvac/cams etc beyond just the AV. It will still require custom programming which is what we want, but it will save the client anywhere from 2-4K per remote.

I'm no Nostradamus, but what I see in the future for tablets is the same thing we have now, a multi-tiered system. You'll have the entry level stuff like the Logitech products now, the mid-tier stuff that is not IR based in the
1K+ range that is processor based, and the high-end stuff like Crestron/Savant/AMX which is still 20K+, but is now based around these tablets instead of their overpriced panels.

The real limitation is the IR devices. Once the industry shifts to wifi, you can literally create an app that communicates using macros across all devices in a system.... all without any wires, emitters, controllers or components. Then a single app requiring no additional hardware besides the devices themselves can truly be the killer app. Imagine the TV, receiver, bluray player, lights, thermostats, even the fridge all use wifi control. You have a home with all your electronics already "wifi-control" ready and based on a standard that any device with a wifi connection and an app can control. It's coming a lot sooner than people think. Not yet, but before this decade is out. I'm excited about it and in the meantime we have to bridge the gap between the new tech and the old standards.
 
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The manufacturers already have (or some will soon have) their own apps for their products. While knowing this generally hurts their touchpanel/remote sales, they realize they have no choice to embrace it or be left behind. So the app itself for each brand is not an issue, it's available. However, because the products themselves are custom, the app itself is simply a tool that allows the use of the IPAD as a remote. It doesn't do anything besides establish a connection with their product. Our job is to create the templates and designs and do the actual integration.

Oh I see. Sorry if I wasn't clear, I wasn't talking about direct-IR. It doesn't make sense to be carrying a giant iPad around and pointing it at the device you want to control. The idea was that you'd have a wifi device with emitters connected to the AV equipment, and you would control this over WiFi without line of sight from the iPad.

There is a solution that exists today for the iPhone but it's pretty crappy, and not activity based. Rather than build the IR DB in the blaster at the equipment location, I was thinking that the DB would be on the iPad (and hence "always connected" and always updated) and would send the raw IR sequences downstream to the emitter.

Once new TV's or other home automation devices come out that can natively accept commands over WiFi, this app/device would be ready to adapt to it immediately.

That is also a game-changer in the sense you can use the IPAD instead of a remote at multiple times its price. Due to the power of the control system running the show in the background, the IPAD will have an enormous amount more capability than the entry-level solutions. It will require no line of sight, have full feedback capability from all devices, and will control home devices like lights/hvac/cams etc beyond just the AV. It will still require custom programming which is what we want, but it will save the client anywhere from 2-4K per remote.

Yes, this is exactly what I'm talking about, but a complete solution that eliminates the crestrons and AMX's from the equation entirely. This is not just a front-end to their controllers -- this IS the controller. You go in and sell the solution based around this.

I know the technical side of things, but I have zero experience working on high end installations. I think if there's money to be made in this, I need to connect up with an established installer and figure out what the killer product and price-point need to be. I'll send you a PM so we can take this discussion offline rather than derail this thread :)
 
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Hadn't seen this posted yet:

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I'm thinking of picking one up today, so what's the consensus here...worth having or wait? :confused:
 
Speaking of Flash...

Here is Steve Jobs open letter to industry on why he's not keen on Flash.

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/


Apple has a long relationship with Adobe. In fact, we met Adobe’s founders when they were in their proverbial garage. Apple was their first big customer, adopting their Postscript language for our new Laserwriter printer. Apple invested in Adobe and owned around 20% of the company for many years. The two companies worked closely together to pioneer desktop publishing and there were many good times. Since that golden era, the companies have grown apart. Apple went through its near death experience, and Adobe was drawn to the corporate market with their Acrobat products. Today the two companies still work together to serve their joint creative customers – Mac users buy around half of Adobe’s Creative Suite products – but beyond that there are few joint interests.

I wanted to jot down some of our thoughts on Adobe’s Flash products so that customers and critics may better understand why we do not allow Flash on iPhones, iPods and iPads. Adobe has characterized our decision as being primarily business driven – they say we want to protect our App Store – but in reality it is based on technology issues. Adobe claims that we are a closed system, and that Flash is open, but in fact the opposite is true. Let me explain.

First, there’s “Open”.

Adobe’s Flash products are 100% proprietary. They are only available from Adobe, and Adobe has sole authority as to their future enhancement, pricing, etc. While Adobe’s Flash products are widely available, this does not mean they are open, since they are controlled entirely by Adobe and available only from Adobe. By almost any definition, Flash is a closed system.

Apple has many proprietary products too. Though the operating system for the iPhone, iPod and iPad is proprietary, we strongly believe that all standards pertaining to the web should be open. Rather than use Flash, Apple has adopted HTML5, CSS and JavaScript – all open standards. Apple’s mobile devices all ship with high performance, low power implementations of these open standards. HTML5, the new web standard that has been adopted by Apple, Google and many others, lets web developers create advanced graphics, typography, animations and transitions without relying on third party browser plug-ins (like Flash). HTML5 is completely open and controlled by a standards committee, of which Apple is a member.

Apple even creates open standards for the web. For example, Apple began with a small open source project and created WebKit, a complete open-source HTML5 rendering engine that is the heart of the Safari web browser used in all our products. WebKit has been widely adopted. Google uses it for Android’s browser, Palm uses it, Nokia uses it, and RIM (Blackberry) has announced they will use it too. Almost every smartphone web browser other than Microsoft’s uses WebKit. By making its WebKit technology open, Apple has set the standard for mobile web browsers.

Second, there’s the “full web”.

Adobe has repeatedly said that Apple mobile devices cannot access “the full web” because 75% of video on the web is in Flash. What they don’t say is that almost all this video is also available in a more modern format, H.264, and viewable on iPhones, iPods and iPads. YouTube, with an estimated 40% of the web’s video, shines in an app bundled on all Apple mobile devices, with the iPad offering perhaps the best YouTube discovery and viewing experience ever. Add to this video from Vimeo, Netflix, Facebook, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, ESPN, NPR, Time, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Sports Illustrated, People, National Geographic, and many, many others. iPhone, iPod and iPad users aren’t missing much video.

Another Adobe claim is that Apple devices cannot play Flash games. This is true. Fortunately, there are over 50,000 games and entertainment titles on the App Store, and many of them are free. There are more games and entertainment titles available for iPhone, iPod and iPad than for any other platform in the world.

Third, there’s reliability, security and performance.

Symantec recently highlighted Flash for having one of the worst security records in 2009. We also know first hand that Flash is the number one reason Macs crash. We have been working with Adobe to fix these problems, but they have persisted for several years now. We don’t want to reduce the reliability and security of our iPhones, iPods and iPads by adding Flash.

In addition, Flash has not performed well on mobile devices. We have routinely asked Adobe to show us Flash performing well on a mobile device, any mobile device, for a few years now. We have never seen it. Adobe publicly said that Flash would ship on a smartphone in early 2009, then the second half of 2009, then the first half of 2010, and now they say the second half of 2010. We think it will eventually ship, but we’re glad we didn’t hold our breath. Who knows how it will perform?

Fourth, there’s battery life.

To achieve long battery life when playing video, mobile devices must decode the video in hardware; decoding it in software uses too much power. Many of the chips used in modern mobile devices contain a decoder called H.264 – an industry standard that is used in every Blu-ray DVD player and has been adopted by Apple, Google (YouTube), Vimeo, Netflix and many other companies.

Although Flash has recently added support for H.264, the video on almost all Flash websites currently requires an older generation decoder that is not implemented in mobile chips and must be run in software. The difference is striking: on an iPhone, for example, H.264 videos play for up to 10 hours, while videos decoded in software play for less than 5 hours before the battery is fully drained.

When websites re-encode their videos using H.264, they can offer them without using Flash at all. They play perfectly in browsers like Apple’s Safari and Google’s Chrome without any plugins whatsoever, and look great on iPhones, iPods and iPads.

Fifth, there’s Touch.

Flash was designed for PCs using mice, not for touch screens using fingers. For example, many Flash websites rely on “rollovers”, which pop up menus or other elements when the mouse arrow hovers over a specific spot. Apple’s revolutionary multi-touch interface doesn’t use a mouse, and there is no concept of a rollover. Most Flash websites will need to be rewritten to support touch-based devices. If developers need to rewrite their Flash websites, why not use modern technologies like HTML5, CSS and JavaScript?

Even if iPhones, iPods and iPads ran Flash, it would not solve the problem that most Flash websites need to be rewritten to support touch-based devices.

Sixth, the most important reason.

Besides the fact that Flash is closed and proprietary, has major technical drawbacks, and doesn’t support touch based devices, there is an even more important reason we do not allow Flash on iPhones, iPods and iPads. We have discussed the downsides of using Flash to play video and interactive content from websites, but Adobe also wants developers to adopt Flash to create apps that run on our mobile devices.

We know from painful experience that letting a third party layer of software come between the platform and the developer ultimately results in sub-standard apps and hinders the enhancement and progress of the platform. If developers grow dependent on third party development libraries and tools, they can only take advantage of platform enhancements if and when the third party chooses to adopt the new features. We cannot be at the mercy of a third party deciding if and when they will make our enhancements available to our developers.

This becomes even worse if the third party is supplying a cross platform development tool. The third party may not adopt enhancements from one platform unless they are available on all of their supported platforms. Hence developers only have access to the lowest common denominator set of features. Again, we cannot accept an outcome where developers are blocked from using our innovations and enhancements because they are not available on our competitor’s platforms.

Flash is a cross platform development tool. It is not Adobe’s goal to help developers write the best iPhone, iPod and iPad apps. It is their goal to help developers write cross platform apps. And Adobe has been painfully slow to adopt enhancements to Apple’s platforms. For example, although Mac OS X has been shipping for almost 10 years now, Adobe just adopted it fully (Cocoa) two weeks ago when they shipped CS5. Adobe was the last major third party developer to fully adopt Mac OS X.

Our motivation is simple – we want to provide the most advanced and innovative platform to our developers, and we want them to stand directly on the shoulders of this platform and create the best apps the world has ever seen. We want to continually enhance the platform so developers can create even more amazing, powerful, fun and useful applications. Everyone wins – we sell more devices because we have the best apps, developers reach a wider and wider audience and customer base, and users are continually delighted by the best and broadest selection of apps on any platform.

Conclusions.

Flash was created during the PC era – for PCs and mice. Flash is a successful business for Adobe, and we can understand why they want to push it beyond PCs. But the mobile era is about low power devices, touch interfaces and open web standards – all areas where Flash falls short.

The avalanche of media outlets offering their content for Apple’s mobile devices demonstrates that Flash is no longer necessary to watch video or consume any kind of web content. And the 200,000 apps on Apple’s App Store proves that Flash isn’t necessary for tens of thousands of developers to create graphically rich applications, including games.

New open standards created in the mobile era, such as HTML5, will win on mobile devices (and PCs too). Perhaps Adobe should focus more on creating great HTML5 tools for the future, and less on criticizing Apple for leaving the past behind.

Steve Jobs
April, 2010
 
Wasn't thinking of picking one up since I already have an iPhone. But I got to play with one over the past weekend.. i like it! But I don't think I really need it just because i have a laptop. The wifi version would be cool if i was just chilling at home and doing some casual surfing. The 3G version would be better since I could go online pretty much anywhere and not worry about trying to find a wifi connection. But eh..i'll save my money for now and stick with the iPhone for now..I just need a new laptop! Damn powerbook is 6 years old! :tongue:
 
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Its a 15 min video, but his best line is that If Flash is no good on a mobile device, then let the customer decide. If it sucks, nobody will use it. Makes sense to me.
could you point me to where, exactly, jimbo endorsed sj's statement, please?

based on sj's position that security is an issue, once that cat is out of the bag, it's gone. (s/he who has the gold makes the rules and since apple owns the product, they make the rules.)

customers and "the market" will adapt. flash devs who are unable / unwilling to comply w/apple's terms are those who are grousing / will lose the most: evolve or die.
 
The problem with letting the customer decide is most customers won't blame Flash or Adobe. All they'll know is the battery life now and they'll blame Apple.

I'm not totally sure I'd have made the same choice as Apple here, but I do understand their reasoning. They are determined to keep control of the quality of the customer experience with this new class of devices.
 
The problem with letting the customer decide is most customers won't blame Flash or Adobe. All they'll know is the battery life now and they'll blame Apple.

I'm not totally sure I'd have made the same choice as Apple here, but I do understand their reasoning. They are determined to keep control of the quality of the customer experience with this new class of devices.

Honestly if the iPhone never got flash, I could care less... BUT the iPad should have it. If it is meant to give you an excellent browsing experience, it has to support it.

Hopefully Google will make a tablet based on android and I will get that.
 
Picked up an iPad 3G 64GB. Had to stand in line for an hour but it's a pretty cool toy.

Dave, don't be a hater and I won't be a fanboi. Deal? :-)
 
I've been using mine to stream video from Netflix to the iPad. Sitting on the lanai with my feet up on the bar and the gizmo on my knees with headphones makes for a pretty damn good viewing experience.

Because of that, I can heartily recommend a pair of zombie movies that are so vile and disgusting that no one should watch them (but I did ;) ).

Die You Zombie Bastards

Dead Snow
 
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