very well put!!!! i was gonna say the same thing 
nsxtasy said:
2005
- Thread starter Silver F16
- Start date
Hmmm... I agree with others here that it sounds like the new NSX will use a V6-- likely this same new 3.8L V6 being tested for the RL and MDX.
From looking at the more modern engine in the S2000 that puts out 120 hp per liter, could we expect a specially tuned NSX version of this 3.8L to put out around 456 hp? (asuming similar hp/liter ratio)
If so, I think that would be quite competitive against the V8 competitors. Especially when you consider how well the current NSX performs against cars with considerably higher horsepower ratings. Honda simply engineers their cars better than these high horsepower competitors.
However, I think the public may continue to reject the car because "it doesn't have a V8". A comon question I get asked about my '91 is, "how big of engine does that thing have". When I respond, "3 liter V6" they always act rather disappointed and surprised. "3.8 liter V6" doesn't sound much better.
From looking at the more modern engine in the S2000 that puts out 120 hp per liter, could we expect a specially tuned NSX version of this 3.8L to put out around 456 hp? (asuming similar hp/liter ratio)
If so, I think that would be quite competitive against the V8 competitors. Especially when you consider how well the current NSX performs against cars with considerably higher horsepower ratings. Honda simply engineers their cars better than these high horsepower competitors.
However, I think the public may continue to reject the car because "it doesn't have a V8". A comon question I get asked about my '91 is, "how big of engine does that thing have". When I respond, "3 liter V6" they always act rather disappointed and surprised. "3.8 liter V6" doesn't sound much better.
Porsche does not seem to have a problem selling a 6 cylinder engine as high performance. Most Porsche fans do not like V8's - the 928 did not replace the 911. It's the power, torque and fun in the car that matters!
mc-ca said:
I 100% agree !
Why it isn't a problem when buying a 996 TT? Isn't it too expensive a car for such minimal number of cylinders?
Get the perf numbers and reliability and this will make forget about the cylinder numbers!
If the news is correct, it seems that the direction is the one that was most voted in my poll of a couple weeks ago! 
mc-ca said:
Good point about Porsche-- I didn't think about them. However, I still feel not having a V8 turns many potental customers away. Porsche is a more prestigous name than Honda in most people's mind. Trouble is Honda *has* to be a lot better and can't simply ride on their name as much as other brands can.
The overall package matters. This new NSX may have the performance and technology, but not the prestegious name or engine type expected for the price while many competitors have all/more of the above. That has to hurt sales somewhat-- not all customers are as logical about this as the typical reader on this forum.
BB said:
3.8 liter V6...
450+ horses... 
Why should displacement and cylinder number matter if it performs?
Zuerst said:3.8 liter V6...
Why should displacement and cylinder number matter if it performs?
I agree. However, there are a surprising number of buyers out there that like braging rights.
Anyone remember the TV ad for the Toyota Camary V6 when it first came out in the US about 10 years ago? The guy is driving up this long hill to the top, passing everyone with ease. At the top of the hill someone says something to him and he says "Because it has a V6!"
Or how about the the Honda Accord V6? From what I read, Honda had a more poweful 4 cylinder engine version in Japan at the time. But instead they sold a less powerful V6 version in the US because they said that's what consumers were expecting and that consumers wouldn't pay top dollar for a high output 4 cyclinder version. This commentary came straight from a Honda marketing guy.
Also notice how for many years the Accord and Camery V6 models proudly say "V6" on the back. Hmmmmm....
Then there's the comments I've read on other message boards about the NSX... Something along the lines of "$90,000 and only a V6... I feel sorry for them".
I don't think this is fair either, but those are my observations.
Wait for the Frankfurt auto fair (IAA) in september. As I wrote some weeks ago Honda has reserved space for a secret model - not even the dealers know details.
And: The former info posted here about a NSX sequel with a V 6 engine (announced by german mag "auto, motor & sport") seems to be still true.
And: The former info posted here about a NSX sequel with a V 6 engine (announced by german mag "auto, motor & sport") seems to be still true.
How much torque would a 3.8L V6 put out? Assuming it is like the S2000, it would be close to 300 lbs feet. That would be a noticeable improvement in the seat of the pants category.
The big question is... can we fit this 3.8L engine into our current cars
Also, if they make a 3.8 with 450 HP, that would rule. But just think about that with a comptech SC on top
The big question is... can we fit this 3.8L engine into our current cars
Also, if they make a 3.8 with 450 HP, that would rule. But just think about that with a comptech SC on top
I said the same thing about them doing a refresh on the NSX in 2002. Given the sales volume, it made absolutely no sense to make the investment in a refresh. (I realize that the cost of a refresh is in seven figures and that of a redesign is probably close to nine, but still...) They did it anyway.pbassjo said:
The same thing was true of the 1997 enhancements, which probably cost eight figures to develop and introduce, at a time when annual U.S. sales were already only in the hundreds.
I am convinced that there is someone at or near the top at Honda Motor Co. Ltd. for whom the NSX is a high priority, regardless of the lack of financial justification. Otherwise it would have been cancelled long ago.
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Automotive news is less likely to make speculations on unsubstained information. They are a weekly publication, so info does come out faster than a monthly magazine. Furthermore, there has been many instances where information from the Industry top official is first fed to Automotive news and is then spread thru the internet. Example, Mr. Yoshino, the ex-president of Honda, during his Automotive news interview earlier this year, indicated that IMA is not suitable for NSX application due to excessive weight and that fuel economy is not a priority for NSX consumers. Hence, these are strong hints from Honda's top that IMA is out for NSX.
The auto industry does have first hand knowledge of new product information. And if you rely solely on Corporate released information, well that news is usually pretty late release stuff. It is confirmed news. Somewhere between wild rumors and confirmed corporate news is where industry insider news comes in.
Industry folks are aware because Honda have suppliers that makes the steering wheel, the radio, air bags, switches, instrument panels, and many other equipment. These suppliers are developing these products at least 3 years prior to production launch. If there is a 2005 NSX, put your dollars up because you can bet that 85% of the design has been finalized and a go decision has already been made. During this development time, engineers, business manager, Sales, testers, and purchasing agents within the supplier company are very well aware which product line this is for (NSX). These suppliers are supposely sworn to secrecy, but it never happens in practice
When a program is a go, there are simply too many hands including those of suppliers that need to come together to deliver a new vehicle. It is naive to think that an OEM can hide this from the general public.
The auto industry does have first hand knowledge of new product information. And if you rely solely on Corporate released information, well that news is usually pretty late release stuff. It is confirmed news. Somewhere between wild rumors and confirmed corporate news is where industry insider news comes in.
Industry folks are aware because Honda have suppliers that makes the steering wheel, the radio, air bags, switches, instrument panels, and many other equipment. These suppliers are developing these products at least 3 years prior to production launch. If there is a 2005 NSX, put your dollars up because you can bet that 85% of the design has been finalized and a go decision has already been made. During this development time, engineers, business manager, Sales, testers, and purchasing agents within the supplier company are very well aware which product line this is for (NSX). These suppliers are supposely sworn to secrecy, but it never happens in practice
When a program is a go, there are simply too many hands including those of suppliers that need to come together to deliver a new vehicle. It is naive to think that an OEM can hide this from the general public.
This statement is absolutely false, based on the amount of information that has been published prior to the introduction of almost every model by Honda/Acura in the past twenty years. Maybe information leaks with some other brands, but not with Honda/Acura. It just doesn't happen. The same thing is true of spy photos. Ever wonder why there are always spy photos of the next gen German or American cars, but never ones of the next Honda/Acura? Because H/A is better about keeping its information private until it is ready to release it.Silver F16 said:
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Of course Honda does a better job keeping information private. They have no outside suppliers. Honda makes the following products themselves within the closed doors of Tochigi:
Windows, Bose radios, Nippon Saki instrument panels, NGK spark plugs, Yokomaha tires, and will soon manufacture Brembo brakes.
In fact, Honda breeds their own orange cow inside Tochigi for their superb orange leather seats.
Windows, Bose radios, Nippon Saki instrument panels, NGK spark plugs, Yokomaha tires, and will soon manufacture Brembo brakes.
In fact, Honda breeds their own orange cow inside Tochigi for their superb orange leather seats.
One of the best pieces of advice I have ever learned in business, yet one of the most difficult to follow.nsxtasy said:
nsxtasy said:
What is this you say? Are you implying that a group of people can keep something very important a secret?
In another thread last week, someone on NSXPrime made a point that there is no way a large group of people (numbering perhaps a few dozen) could keep a big secret. I can't remember who it was that said that....
And of course, you probably think that Honda has no confidentiality agreements with its outside suppliers, either.Silver F16 said:
Again, I have been reading (and subscribing to) Car and Driver, Motor Trend, Road & Track, AutoWeek, and Automotive News for over twenty years, and I have not seen any difference in the reliability or timeliness of the reports among any of these publications over the course of those twenty-plus years. Sure, sometimes they pick up reports from each other (with or without attribution), and sometimes they share information. But Automotive News is no more reliable or timely than its AutoWeek sister; the monthly mags tend to be somewhat less timely (not just because of the lower frequency of issues, but also because they have longer lead times) but every bit as reliable as Automotive News - which means sometimes reliable, but not always.
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Confidentiality agreement is accomplished by:
1. Keeping the orange cows and the blue cows in separate farms.
2. Honda makes thousands of employees from each supplier get high by sniffing NSX exhaust fumes, hence achieving ecstasy and pledging to never share any information.
1. Keeping the orange cows and the blue cows in separate farms.
2. Honda makes thousands of employees from each supplier get high by sniffing NSX exhaust fumes, hence achieving ecstasy and pledging to never share any information.
V6 VS V8
As to the question of the V6 vs V8, I mostly agree that performance is the key factor, except that I do think V8s sound much better than V6s. That rhythmic V8 rumble just stirs the soul for me, more than even a Tubi-enhanced NSX V6, especially at idle.
I was at the Concours d'Elegance concept lawn on Saturday night when the concept cars were being put in place. There was an ugly Lexus concept being driven into place which however sounded absolutely incredible. I felt like Homer Simpson with drool coming out of my mouth -- "mmmmmmmmm sweet engine".
Funny thing is I asked the Lexus rep what was under the hood, and he said it was the standard Lexus V8, but for the concept they just hadn't muffled it. So now I am debating keeping my Lexus the quiet cruiser in contrast to by Tubi-equipped NSX vs. trying to hear that sweet unmuffled purr by changing the exhaust. You cannot believe how beautiful that engine sounded -- and unfortunately there is no way to make a V6 sound like that.
Chip
As to the question of the V6 vs V8, I mostly agree that performance is the key factor, except that I do think V8s sound much better than V6s. That rhythmic V8 rumble just stirs the soul for me, more than even a Tubi-enhanced NSX V6, especially at idle.
I was at the Concours d'Elegance concept lawn on Saturday night when the concept cars were being put in place. There was an ugly Lexus concept being driven into place which however sounded absolutely incredible. I felt like Homer Simpson with drool coming out of my mouth -- "mmmmmmmmm sweet engine".
Funny thing is I asked the Lexus rep what was under the hood, and he said it was the standard Lexus V8, but for the concept they just hadn't muffled it. So now I am debating keeping my Lexus the quiet cruiser in contrast to by Tubi-equipped NSX vs. trying to hear that sweet unmuffled purr by changing the exhaust. You cannot believe how beautiful that engine sounded -- and unfortunately there is no way to make a V6 sound like that.
Chip
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here's a 3.5 Liter White w/ black roof....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2428945759&category=5337#mainImage
how do they expect to sell these cars w/out even knowing the particulars...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2428945759&category=5337#mainImage
how do they expect to sell these cars w/out even knowing the particulars...
Bilulan said:here's a 3.5 Liter White w/ black roof....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2428945759&category=5337#mainImage
Does this one seem a little fishy? It looks like a real coupe, as I do not see a break in the window weatherstrip. I have not worked out the VIN, but if it truly is a 2001 coupe, I may be trading soon
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In everyday life too.
VIN is for a coupe.ncdogdoc said:I have not worked out the VIN, but if it truly is a 2001 coupe, I may be trading soon
That is the same VIN as the white '01 coupe that Greenwich Acura and Hunting Ridge Motors were trying to sell for so long. And the white '01 coupe is still listed on Greenwich Acura's website.
Gary, if you're really interested in buying an '01 coupe, I would call Greenwich Acura. I wonder if the eBay seller is associated with them, or if it's a fraud of some sort.
BTW, the eBay seller claims the car is in Lud's area...
Gary, if you're really interested in buying an '01 coupe, I would call Greenwich Acura. I wonder if the eBay seller is associated with them, or if it's a fraud of some sort.
BTW, the eBay seller claims the car is in Lud's area...
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