17/17 and 17/18 Tire Choices - not much left.
- Thread starter stuntman
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hm...I just got my 050A set last week
The Bridgestone Potenza RE050A Pole Position is the tire that was made in a wide variety of sizes, for all vehicles. That tire has been discontinued in favor of the S-04 Pole Position. The Tire Rack only has the RE050A Pole Position in a few 19" and 20" sizes.
The Bridgestone Potenza RE050A was developed primarily as the OEM replacement tire for a number of vehicles. In North America, it is not available in any of the sizes normally used on either the front or the rear of an NSX. RE050A sizes available in North America are shown on Bridgestone's website here.
The Bridgestone Potenza RE050A was developed primarily as the OEM replacement tire for a number of vehicles. In North America, it is not available in any of the sizes normally used on either the front or the rear of an NSX. RE050A sizes available in North America are shown on Bridgestone's website here.
Shopping for 17/18s now. There's virtually nothing I can find in 215/40/17. Am I missing any brands?
Dunlop Z2 - Tire Rack exclusive so pricing pretty much monopolized.
Federal RS-R - 215s are on 3-4wk backorder
AD08R - Available but most expensive of the bunch
Yoko S-Drives - Super mediocre tire
Kumho LE - Another super mediocre tire
Sumitomo - I'd rather put bicycle tires on...
Boooooooooo!
Dunlop Z2 - Tire Rack exclusive so pricing pretty much monopolized.
Federal RS-R - 215s are on 3-4wk backorder
AD08R - Available but most expensive of the bunch
Yoko S-Drives - Super mediocre tire
Kumho LE - Another super mediocre tire
Sumitomo - I'd rather put bicycle tires on...
Boooooooooo!
In the supersticky "extreme performance" category, in addition to the Direzza ZII and Yokohama AD08/AD08R, there's also the Falken Azenis RT-615K. And for track use, the Kumho Ecsta V710 is available.
The Kumho Ecsta LE Sport is quite good also, the sole entry in the "max performance" category, a good choice for those willing to accept slightly less performance than the "extreme performance" tires in exchange for longer treadlife.
Funny that you should criticize the pricing of the Direzza ZII, which is less expensive than the AD08/AD08R.
I wouldn't diss Sumitomo. They make some good tires, such as the max performance HTR Z III. Unfortunately, that tire is not available in 215/40-17, and the one that is, the HTR Z II, is not very good at all.
I'm sure there are lots more tires in that size, but not in the top performance categories.
Still, that's not bad at all - three excellent extreme performance tires (without double-counting the AD08 and the AD08R), one excellent max performance tire, and one excellent track tire. That's five tires worth considering, which means five more than "virtually nothing".
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Thanks much! Pardon my tone. I try to be funny but it's really only funny in my own head.In the supersticky "extreme performance" category, in addition to the Direzza ZII and Yokohama AD08/AD08R, there's also the Falken Azenis RT-615K. And for track use, the Kumho Ecsta V710 is available.
The Kumho Ecsta LE Sport is quite good also, the sole entry in the "max performance" category, a good choice for those willing to accept slightly less performance than the "extreme performance" tires in exchange for longer treadlife.
Funny that you should criticize the pricing of the Direzza ZII, which is less expensive than the AD08/AD08R.
I wouldn't diss Sumitomo. They make some good tires, such as the max performance HTR Z III. Unfortunately, that tire is not available in 215/40-17, and the one that is, the HTR Z II, is not very good at all.
I'm sure there are lots more tires in that size, but not in the top performance categories.
Still, that's not bad at all - three excellent extreme performance tires (without double-counting the AD08 and the AD08R), one excellent max performance tire, and one excellent track tire. That's five tires worth considering, which means five more than "virtually nothing".
Will check on these options tomorrow! Thanks for vouching for the Kumho Ecsta LE Sport. That was next on my list for my "street set". I have the 615K's now and I'd prefer to try something else. They're not my favorite. Regarding the Sumitomos, I was referring to the HTR Z II but it's good to know the Z III are good. Will consider those for my other vehicle.
Guys, I have a track related question. Sorry for the OT. I've never tried mixing and matching tires on the track before. I'm preparing for a track day this Sunday. I'm going with the 255/35/18 Federal RS-Rs for the rear because my dealer has them in stock but they don't have a matching 215/40/17 for the front. I have a previous pair of Azenis 615K's for the front which i'm considering using for this casual HPDE while I wait for the matching RS-Rs to come in. What should I be prepared to experience? Different heat tolerances? Dangerous?
Regan how advanced are you? if you are in the novice run group and the conditions are sunny and dry you might be fine. If it gets wet or you are driving hard and fast as an experienced guy that's bad. Why don't you get the federals online?
There's a lot of "don't mix and match tires" out there but I think once you are a really experienced driver and know your car super well you can mix and match anything safely. Pads, sway bars, tires... most of those rules apply to the novice. Which granted, is like 99% of people out there. But I bet senna could mix tires and actually benefit from the difference. I am not recommending anyone mix and match. Let's be clear. I am just saying at some very high level it's probably fine.
There's a lot of "don't mix and match tires" out there but I think once you are a really experienced driver and know your car super well you can mix and match anything safely. Pads, sway bars, tires... most of those rules apply to the novice. Which granted, is like 99% of people out there. But I bet senna could mix tires and actually benefit from the difference. I am not recommending anyone mix and match. Let's be clear. I am just saying at some very high level it's probably fine.
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Worst case scenario you will have some understeer as the Federals push the front around a bit, i have had this issue before as i couldnt get my front tyres to match the rears and the track day was the next day so had some lesser tyres on the front with Falkens on the back.
It actually was a lot of fun (read slow lap times) but hard work in the corners with massive understeer at times, i dont think your mix in match selection is as bad as mine was, so it wont be as severe just dont expect to hit that apex.
The good thing about it i actually learned a lot that day about setup
It actually was a lot of fun (read slow lap times) but hard work in the corners with massive understeer at times, i dont think your mix in match selection is as bad as mine was, so it wont be as severe just dont expect to hit that apex.
The good thing about it i actually learned a lot that day about setup
I agree, somewhat. The key to mixing tires is to know what the differences are and to be prepared to deal with them. More specifically, tires within the same performance category usually behave pretty much the same as each other, so mixing them will rarely cause any problems. But tires in different performance categories are likely to have different levels of traction (and they can depend on surface conditions, such as extreme performance tires which are really sticky on dry pavement, not very sticky at all on wet pavement). Mixing tires in different performance categories means that some will be giving better traction than others. As a result, for example, you may encounter severe understeer (if the rear tires are stickier) or oversteer (if the fronts are stickier). If you're prepared to accept that and deal with such handling anomalies, that's fine. But as a general rule, I think your best bet is to avoid mixing tires in different performance categories. Mixing tires in the same performance category will rarely be a problem; I would avoid it where possible, but not worry about it where necessary (such as to use up a pair of tires with decent tread when changing over to a different tire, then eventually getting four tires to match when that pair is worn out).
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Incidentally, by "good" and "not good", I was referring to how those tires compare within their performance category. For example, you would expect a decent "maximum performance" tire to be better than a decent "ultra high performance" tire, just because the category represents a higher level of performance. The HTR Z III is a max performance tire and offers performance similar to other good tires within that category. The HTR Z II is an ultra high performance tire whose performance is significantly worse than other ultra high performance tires. By contrast, the Yokohama S.drive is one of the better ultra high performance tires; the S.drive is not a mediocre tire within its category, but buying any ultra high performance tire is generally not a good choice for an NSX, except perhaps for someone who is willing to make a substantial sacrifice in performance for some savings in the purchase price of the tire. Hope that makes sense.
All the extreme performance tires are very competitive. So while one can argue, for example, that the ZII is or isn't stickier than the AD08 or the RE-11A, all are very very sticky and great tires, and differences among them are subtle.
The question is which Continental and Bridgestone tires you have. For example, if you have a Continental ExtremeContact DW (a maximum performance tire) in front, it would probably work fine with another maximum performance tire like the Bridgestone Potenza RE050A Pole Position in the rear. But if you have the ExtremeContact DW in front and the Bridgestone Potenza RE-11A (extreme performance) tire in the rear, you can expect that combination to understeer when cornering.
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Incidentally, for those who aren't overly familiar with the handling terms...
Understeer occurs when the front tires have less traction than the rear tires. This is a handling condition in which, when you turn the steering wheel to corner, the car seems to not want to corner as much as your steering inputs would make you expect. As the car tends to go straight ahead, it has a tendency to "plow".
Oversteer occurs when the front tires have more traction than the rear tires. This is a handling condition in which, when you turn the steering wheel to corner, the car seems to want to corner more than your steering inputs would make you expect. It feels like the rear end wants to swing around on you, and in extreme cases, that's exactly what happens, causing the car to spin.
Many cars are designed with a slight bias towards understeer, as its consequences are considered safer than oversteer.
Let me ask a question a different way.
For the street, I'm happy to stay within the performance confines of the NT-05 (in 235 prior but i can only do 215s now) to the Dunlop Z1s. I have tried them both and I know what to expect. I'd like to stay within this performance range.
I'm not made of money and I see myself going thru more and more tires in the coming years. It's difficult to ignore the value proposition of the Federals so i'm now considering them for the street; bad idea? At this time I'm considering the Kumho LEs or the S.Drives for the street but not if the performance is significantly less than the Z1s. I'm currently leaning towards the Z2s only because I don't know any better and have not tried these other ones.
I liked RE11a's on a different car. Loved them but I think the value of the Z1s was better. It's tough when you experience them on different cars.
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Would you have any recommendations?
I haven't used the Federals and haven't seen any comparison tests of them, so I don't really have any opinion of them, one way or the other.
To me, the choice between the LE Sport and the S.drive is a no-brainer: Get the LE Sport. It's less expensive than the S.drive ($97F/$176R in 215/40-17 and 255/35-18, less a $50 rebate, vs $119F/$191R with no rebate for the S.drive, current Tire Rack prices) and offers a higher level of performance. It did okay in Tire Rack testing against three other max performance tires (here).
However, the extreme performance tires are going to give you significantly better performance than the LE Sport (and any other max performance tire), but at the expense of purchase price and treadlife. That's the trade-off. If you're using the car as a daily driver with a lot of miles so treadlife and cost is a concern, then you might be better off with the LE Sport. If you're only putting on low miles each year, then you'd probably be better off with the ZII. (Incidentally, I have the ZII on my Integra Type R, and so far they seem really really sticky.)
Thanks very much for the helpful insight.
Will go with the ZIIs for the NSX.
Can you help me compare the Kumho Ventus V12 with the Hankook LE Sport? I'm looking to get some new year-round (for Los Angeles) rubber for my BRZ and i'm decently satisfied with the wear to performance compromise of the Ventus V12. Also feels ok in the wet. However, your comments on the LE Sport opens up that option. I'd like to prioritize quietness.
EDIT: I found this comparison on Tirerack between 4 Max Performance Summer tires. Very interesting. If you have any feedback in terms of value i'd appreciate it. This will go on a 2800lb RWD Subaru BRZ driven in year round SoCal weather (30% wet but mostly sunny/dry all year).
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=149
I can see why you like the Sumitomo HTR Z III. Looks like a great tire.
Will go with the ZIIs for the NSX.
Can you help me compare the Kumho Ventus V12 with the Hankook LE Sport? I'm looking to get some new year-round (for Los Angeles) rubber for my BRZ and i'm decently satisfied with the wear to performance compromise of the Ventus V12. Also feels ok in the wet. However, your comments on the LE Sport opens up that option. I'd like to prioritize quietness.
EDIT: I found this comparison on Tirerack between 4 Max Performance Summer tires. Very interesting. If you have any feedback in terms of value i'd appreciate it. This will go on a 2800lb RWD Subaru BRZ driven in year round SoCal weather (30% wet but mostly sunny/dry all year).
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/testDisplay.jsp?ttid=149
I can see why you like the Sumitomo HTR Z III. Looks like a great tire.
That Tire Rack test - same one as in the link in my previous post - speaks for itself. The two are very similar, but the Kumho tested slightly better for most attributes, both dry and wet. It's a pretty close call, but I'd lean towards the Kumho LE Sport.
Did you switch the names of the two brands/models intentionally?
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I am shopping for tires for OEM 02+ wheels 17/17. I have looked on tire rack and discount tire and the choices in matching tires is VERY limited. I am looking for the grippiest street performance tire I can find. Are there any new tires that came out recently or any new tires on the way to market before the spring?
I run 235/40r17 & 285/35r18 and never looked back.
ONly tires that I care about after my NT05 runs out will be the Z2.
ONly tires that I care about after my NT05 runs out will be the Z2.
for those of you wanting to know about the Dunlop Z11 long term, i just got back from a track day where i drove 4 hours there and back and tracked hard all day.
it was pissing down rain all the way there, dryed up for the first session then some drizzle and cold temps for the next two sessions then for the afternoon it was bloody hot. (summer in NZ)
the tyres took it all, i just had to keep inflating or deflating the pressures as required for the different temps.
this was the 7th track day on this set and i still have plenty of tread, they have handled every condition and yesterday i got it all in one day the only thing that was about to give up grip was me by the time i got home
it was pissing down rain all the way there, dryed up for the first session then some drizzle and cold temps for the next two sessions then for the afternoon it was bloody hot. (summer in NZ)
the tyres took it all, i just had to keep inflating or deflating the pressures as required for the different temps.
this was the 7th track day on this set and i still have plenty of tread, they have handled every condition and yesterday i got it all in one day the only thing that was about to give up grip was me by the time i got home
I'm not sure why you say that. There are three excellent "extreme performance" tires available in 215/40-17 and 255/40-17:
Dunlop Direzza ZII
Yokohama Advan Neova AD08R
Falken Azenis RT-615K (not available at Tire Rack)
All three of these are extremely sticky. The ZII and the AD08R are both new on the market. I'd lean towards either of those (not because they're newer, but because they're better). Of the two, the ZII offers slightly more traction on dry pavement, while the AD08R is slightly better on wet, but they're both pretty close. You can look at a side-by-side comparison test including both of these on the Tire Rack website here. Those looking for the grippiest street performance you can find can't go wrong with either one of these.
Does anything come in that size other than Hoosiers?
Perhaps he meant 225/45-17's. I'm curious if that particular size will have any issues ( rubbing inner fender liner/ hitting outer lip) on a 8" +37 wheel. This size would definitely be a better wheel fit over the 215 size.
The thing is that with a 225/45R17 in front and a 275/35R18 in back, your rear is only 2.4% bigger than the front. Although that might be fine for TCS, it starts to push things. And I don't think you want a bigger rear tire because the 275/35R18 is already almost 3.5% oversize from OEM. Plus you start to get a taller sidewall in front than in back, which seems odd to me.
225/45-17 will definitely rub on the wheel wells, as well as raising the possibility of TCS problems.
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