Wireless Networking Gurus, I Need HELP!!!

[lemansnsx]

A router shouldn't have to be "powered down" should it? Especially when there is no on-off switch, right? Last night when I got home there was a message that a "new unit" will be mailed to me. I can only think that after my complaint to Dell, they concluded that the router is bad. The router is two weeks old. Is this common?

Yes, a router needs to be powered down and left off for a minute or so before powering back up - this is the first thing any level 1 tech support will have you do - even when you know that your whole neighborhood is down
Actually the procedure is to power down both cable modem and router, power up modem only, wait for it to sync, then power router, then power up any pcs.
Bad routers common? Not really but like anything else you can get a bad one. Many many routers are returned because of configuration errors - like one manufacturer - D-Link I believe - who has a default setting of 100Mbps when most home users have 10Mbps cable modems. They often don't talk to each other until the router is changed to 10Mbps.

 

[Yellow Rose]

Two Things

Yes, a router needs to be powered down and left off for a minute or so before powering back up

So if the Dell router does not have an on-off switch, power it down by pulling the plug? Simple enough, yet just a bit of a "hassle" because...........

Before the Linksys router (which also does not have an on-off switch) was replaced I never powered it down and each time the PC connected to the internet.

 

[lemansnsx]

Re: Two Things

Before the Linksys router (which also does not have an on-off switch) was replaced I never powered it down and each time the PC connected to the internet.

Yes it is a bit of a pain - especially since in my case it is located down in the basement! Luckily it very rarely needs to be done.

 

[nsxtasy]

Yes, a router needs to be powered down and left off for a minute or so before powering back up

So if the Dell router does not have an on-off switch, power it down by pulling the plug? Simple enough, yet just a bit of a "hassle" because...........

Before the Linksys router (which also does not have an on-off switch) was replaced I never powered it down and each time the PC connected to the internet.

What I was doing during my debugging process was powering off the cable modem (which has an on/off switch on the back) and briefly hitting the reset button on the router (on the back).

 

[nsxtasy]

Okay, I bought and installed the Hawking directional antenna. The reception was either good or very good before; now it stays very good most of the time.

Unfortunately, the client PC just lost all its IP address information, just like before. No connectivity, ipconfig shows an IP address of 0.0.0.0 again.

So the antenna really isn't making a difference.

 

[PHOEN$X]

Ken, are you able to obtain an IP address by issuing the "ipconfig /renew" command at the DOS prompt? You may also have to issue the "ipconfig /release" command before that. Sometimes you just have to tell the adapter to get a new IP address, especially when it has trouble getting one on its own.

 

[Lud]

I'm sorry if I'm duplicating any previous advice or things you have tried but I don't really have time to read the whole thread in detail. I skimmed it and a few things jumped out.

1. Make sure the USB wireless adapter is plugged directly into the USB port on the computer. Do not pass it through a USB hub or anything like that.

2. Make sure you have the XP USB update loaded: http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=822603

3. Verify that it is really a wireless problem. Get a long Ethernet cable or move your wife's computer and hard wire it to the router and verify that it works without any problems. Maybe there is some other problem with the computer that is affecting it's networking.

4. The lack of an external antenna was never the problem. 40 feet in a wood frame house is nothing. My wireless router is in a corner of my basement and I have good to very good coverage all over my house, even 50+ linear feet away and two floors up in my office.

5. If your house is very close to your neighbors, it is possible their 2.4GHz phones are causing intermittent problems. But if it's a constant problem that's probably not the cause. It could be their wireless routers though. Try changing the channel on yours.

6. If you've already been through multiple adaptors, verify that it's not your router that is the problem by connecting to it with some other wireless adaptor. I know several people who have had older 802.11 routers develop wireless problems but if you plugged into them with a cable they worked.

7. Some of these devices, particular the modems, want to be powered for for several minutes when new equipment is attached. I had to power down my cable modem for ~5 minutes before it would assign a DHCP address to a new router.

8. I know several people who have had nothing but trouble with older style wireless USB network adaptors. If you do not have a current generation model you may just need to upgrade. I would personally avoid USB networking on a desktop computer that wasn't going anywhere. WiFi network adaptor cards are cheap and easy to install.

 

[jadkar]

8. I know several people who have had nothing but trouble with older style wireless USB network adaptors. If you do not have a current generation model you may just need to upgrade. I would personally avoid USB networking on a desktop computer that wasn't going anywhere. WiFi network adaptor cards are cheap and easy to install.

Just to reiterate what I said way back. I'm assuming (and hoping) there is a real good reason that you are sticking with a USB adapter. IMO it's not worth the headaches.

 

[nsxtasy]

Ken, are you able to obtain an IP address by issuing the "ipconfig /renew" command at the DOS prompt? You may also have to issue the "ipconfig /release" command before that. Sometimes you just have to tell the adapter to get a new IP address, especially when it has trouble getting one on its own.

Okay - this is VERY useful information, that is new to me. I did not know that this is the way to get all the IP addresses assigned. It only goes partway - more on that in a moment - but this is the way to get past the IP address showing 0.0.0.0 Thank you!

Unfortunately, this does not yet assign the IP address 192.168.1.xxx for the computer as part of the network. When I do the /renew, it gives me the following error message:

No operation can be performed on a Local Area Connection while it has its media disconnected.
An error occurred while renewing interface Wireless Network Configuration: unable to contact your DHCP server. Request timed out.

However, it DOES get as far as assigning my IP address (not the 192.168.1.xxx IP address, but rather, it assigns my external IP address as "Autoconfiguration IP Address". At least it's not 0.0.0.0 and I assume this is partway to where I want to be.

So to sum up: The reception is very good, and the connection to the network is being recognized (the connection finds the network name and I can enter the WEP). However, it does not recognize the network as the one for my LAN, so I still don't have e-mail or internet connectivity.

Incidentally, the reception with the external antenna is definitely better; the signal is shown as 93-100 percent now instead of 70-90 percent. It's consistently "very good".

I'll reply to Lud's comments separately.

 

[nsxtasy]

1. Make sure the USB wireless adapter is plugged directly into the USB port on the computer. Do not pass it through a USB hub or anything like that.

Correct.

2. Make sure you have the XP USB update loaded: http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=822603

I'll do that as soon as I get internet connectivity established. (It was connected before, without that patch, so I assume it will get connected again.)

3. Verify that it is really a wireless problem. Get a long Ethernet cable or move your wife's computer and hard wire it to the router and verify that it works without any problems. Maybe there is some other problem with the computer that is affecting it's networking.

That's not easy to do. But it's pretty clear that the problem is in the network connection. In fact, it works some of the time... and not others.

4. The lack of an external antenna was never the problem. 40 feet in a wood frame house is nothing. My wireless router is in a corner of my basement and I have good to very good coverage all over my house, even 50+ linear feet away and two floors up in my office.

If I get this straightened out, and the antenna turns out to be unnecessary, I'll return it.

5. If your house is very close to your neighbors, it is possible their 2.4GHz phones are causing intermittent problems. But if it's a constant problem that's probably not the cause. It could be their wireless routers though. Try changing the channel on yours.

I've done that. The current channel (1) seems to be better than others.

6. If you've already been through multiple adaptors, verify that it's not your router that is the problem by connecting to it with some other wireless adaptor. I know several people who have had older 802.11 routers develop wireless problems but if you plugged into them with a cable they worked.

It's possible it's the router, but if it were the router, I don't understand why it wouldn't just say that there was no reception. Reception continues to be there, just not recognition that that is where the internet and e-mail connection should look for the local area network. SOME of the time.

7. Some of these devices, particular the modems, want to be powered for for several minutes when new equipment is attached. I had to power down my cable modem for ~5 minutes before it would assign a DHCP address to a new router.

But it's not new equipment. It's stuff that DID work, but now doesn't. Besides, my modem (it's a DSL modem) is the one thing that has never had any problems.

Anyway, I'm trying this right now, just to rule it out.

8. I know several people who have had nothing but trouble with older style wireless USB network adaptors. If you do not have a current generation model you may just need to upgrade. I would personally avoid USB networking on a desktop computer that wasn't going anywhere. WiFi network adaptor cards are cheap and easy to install.

Originally posted by jadkar
Just to reiterate what I said way back. I'm assuming (and hoping) there is a real good reason that you are sticking with a USB adapter. IMO it's not worth the headaches.

Well, right now I am trying with a new Netgear USB adaptor (802.11G). If this doesn't do the trick, then I may as well take it back and try a card instead.

 

[nsxtasy]

Anyway, I'm trying this right now, just to rule it out.

So, I tried powering down the DSL modem for a few minutes, then powered it back up. Then I went to the client PC, and lo and behold, it has the proper IP address for the local network (192.168.1.xxx) and it has full internet and e-mail connectivity.

Is this the root of the problem? I don't know. It doesn't explain why it loses the connectivity, but at this point I will be happy to settle for a way to restore it. So... I'll put in that patch now, and we'll see. (No, I doubt that this is the end of it, but once it's working, it's time to just keep a watchful eye on things - this topic is a good way to record all the steps for future reference.)

Thanks again to everyone for all the assistance.

 

[PHOEN$X]

Unfortunately, this does not yet assign the IP address 192.168.1.xxx for the computer as part of the network. When I do the /renew, it gives me the following error message:

No operation can be performed on a Local Area Connection while it has its media disconnected.
An error occurred while renewing interface Wireless Network Configuration: unable to contact your DHCP server. Request timed out.

However, it DOES get as far as assigning my IP address (not the 192.168.1.xxx IP address, but rather, it assigns my external IP address as "Autoconfiguration IP Address". At least it's not 0.0.0.0 and I assume this is partway to where I want to be.

So to sum up: The reception is very good, and the connection to the network is being recognized (the connection finds the network name and I can enter the WEP). However, it does not recognize the network as the one for my LAN, so I still don't have e-mail or internet connectivity.

Hmm, so Windows recognizes the network card (the USB adapter), but it can't find the DHCP server. However after rebooting the DSL modem, it is able to find and connect to the DHCP server? That is just bizarre. Sounds like something is flaky with the software driver for the USB adapter, or the router itself is unstable. If this happens again, it might be a good idea to power down all the equipment, then startup the modem, router, and PC in that order. Then issue an "ipconfig /all" command to make sure you have an IP address before trying to access the web.

Good luck, I hope it stays stable for you.

 

[nsxtasy]

2. Make sure you have the XP USB update loaded: http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=822603

When I go to that web page, and I click on "Download the 822603 package now.", it takes me to a web page called "Update for Windows XP (KB822603)". On that page, under Overview, it says, "A more recent critical security update is now available. To find the latest security releases for you visit Windows Update and click 'Scan for updates.'"

So, I visited Windows Update and installed all the relevant security updates (basically, everything except a few things that I know are irrelevant because they are for software we don't use). I assume that is sufficient for the USB update functionality and no additional steps are needed...?

 

[PHOEN$X]

So, I visited Windows Update and installed all the relevant security updates (basically, everything except a few things that I know are irrelevant because they are for software we don't use). I assume that is sufficient for the USB update functionality and no additional steps are needed...?

I would think so, unless you encounter further problems. Hopefully that will not be the case.

Also, I forgot to mention, sometimes you have to reinstall the drivers as they can become corrupt. I have a Netgear MA521 wireless PC card that started causing my Windows 2000 laptop to experience the blue screen of death recently, and only uninstalling and reinstalling the driver restored stability of the device.

YMMV.

 

[nsxtasy]

I went through this same sequence of events when I powered up the client PC this morning. It started out like this:

it DOES get as far as assigning my IP address (not the 192.168.1.xxx IP address, but rather, it assigns my external IP address as "Autoconfiguration IP Address".

And then this happened:

I tried powering down the DSL modem for a few minutes, then powered it back up. Then I went to the client PC, and lo and behold, it has the proper IP address for the local network (192.168.1.xxx) and it has full internet and e-mail connectivity.

Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action.

We'll see if this continues to be the required series of events. If so... we'll worry about that when we get there.

 

[MarkB]

I have XP Media Center edition and thought I would chime in here.

At one of the many hotels in which I have stayed, the WiFi provider used was GoldenTree. I attempted to connect to the web and was unable to do so. I had, according to Windows, a strong signal, so I decided to call GoldenTree support.

I was told by the folks there that XP has been problematic since it came out. They suggested I get the WiFi unit available at the front desk and install it. Voila! The connection was great.

My suggestion, based on my experience with XP/WiFi, is to install a 3^rd party adapter and bypass XP by using the driver supplied with the adapter. This solution may not be the cleanest, if your machine has built in wireless support, but at least it works and is consistent.

 

[nsxtasy]

Okay, now ipconfig shows that the proper IP addresses are configured, but any connection request (e-mail or internet) simply times out. Reception continues to be very good.

I think I'm going to get a long network cable. That will rule out any problems with the computer, as well as providing a working, albeit ugly, workaround. Given that the current hard-wired computer works without any problems whatsoever, there shouldn't be any problems with the DSL modem. That means either (a) the router is defective (I can verify by replacing it), (b) the USB adapter technology doesn't work (I can verify by replacing it with a wireless card), or (c) wireless technology is simply "not ready for prime time" entirely. Given how common my experience seems to be, I'm betting on (c).

 

[Yellow Rose]

I am betting on A and / or C, with emphasis on the latter. If my router replacement works, great. However, if the wireless adapter acts up again I'm getting a 50' CAT-5 ethernet cable and hardwiring my wife's computer into my router’s LAN 2 port, via the attic. Fortunately, the two PCs are on the same floor and attic space is easy to access over the two rooms in question.

 

[PHOEN$X]

Okay, now ipconfig shows that the proper IP addresses are configured, but any connection request (e-mail or internet) simply times out. Reception continues to be very good.

I think I'm going to get a long network cable. That will rule out any problems with the computer, as well as providing a working, albeit ugly, workaround. Given that the current hard-wired computer works without any problems whatsoever, there shouldn't be any problems with the DSL modem. That means either (a) the router is defective (I can verify by replacing it), (b) the USB adapter technology doesn't work (I can verify by replacing it with a wireless card), or (c) wireless technology is simply "not ready for prime time" entirely. Given how common my experience seems to be, I'm betting on (c).

That's unfortunate. The problem could lie with any of the possibilities you mentioned, or with Windows XP itself. There are just too many layers of technology (ISP, router firmware, Windows XP USB driver, wireless adapter driver, Wireless Zero Configuration, etc.) that makes troubleshooting difficult. As some people have pointed out, the built-in Wireless Zero Configuration utility isn't all that great. Hopefully it will improve with the delayed Service Pack 2. As some others have done, I also disabled WZC on my XP machine and am using the wireless card's included software to manage my wLAN connection instead.

I didn't see this link posted before, so I'll included it in case you hadn't read it:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=313242

Another possible solution, if you're inclined to give Wi-fi one more try, is to use a wireless ethernet bridge. That would remove the burden of configuring wireless connectivity from Windows XP entirely, which should eliminate many of the issues you are experiencing.

If you do resort to using a long network cable, please be careful you don't trip over it!

 

[nsxtasy]

I didn't see this link posted before, so I'll included it in case you hadn't read it:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=313242

Yeah, I went through that, discovered that everything is apparently configured properly. I got to the end of the article, where it says:

Strong signal

If you still have trouble connecting but the signal strength is good, a different network configuration issue may be preventing communications. To resolve this issue, use standard TCP/IP troubleshooting techniques.

That's me. Right now, everything looks like it's configured correctly, but internet and e-mail still time out.

Another possible solution, if you're inclined to give Wi-fi one more try, is to use a wireless ethernet bridge. That would remove the burden of configuring wireless connectivity from Windows XP entirely, which should eliminate many of the issues you are experiencing.

That might be a solution. I want to first get a cable (so I can use the client computer) and return the things that didn't solve the problem (the Netgear adapter and the external antenna), and then I'll go from there.

 

[nsxtasy]

Since I was getting excellent reception with or without the external antenna, I removed it.

Since I am having the same problems with the Netgear 802.11g USB adapter as with the Linksys 802.11b USB adapter, I removed the Netgear one and went back to the Linksys one.

So where I am now is no different from where I was with the external antenna and the Netgear adapter. Through an ipconfig, I can see that the client PC is assigning the correct network IP address to itself. However, while it is apparently recognizing the network's existence (based on the IP address assignment), it isn't recognizing the network as the place to go for the internet and e-mail connection (since neither function works).

I am stumped.

Can anyone suggest steps I can take to TRY getting internet and e-mail to recognize the network connection? Otherwise, my only options appear to be to (a) try replacing the router (I'm not sure this is going to do anything, based on the fact that the disconnect appears to be in the client PC), (b) try hard wiring the client PC to the router, or (c) try replacing the USB adapter with something else (like the bridge that PHOEN$X suggested) (which offers more hope IMO because it goes through the RG45 ethernet jack in the PC rather than the USB port). Whichever wireless solution I try - (a) or (c) - is going to cost me $50-100 for 802.11b, or $100-150 for 802.11g and is only going to duplicate the function of the Linksys equipment I already have. Grrr...

Incidentally, what's up with the prices on network cables? I found the following prices for a 100 foot network cable:

Circuit City $70 (in store or internet)
Best Buy $70 (in store or internet)
CompUSA $70 (in store), $30 (internet only)
Sam's Club $13 (internet only)
PCH Cables $6 (internet only) (found via shopping.yahoo.com)

So I can pay $70 by walking into a store, or $6 by having it shipped to me. Gee, tough choice.

 

[lemansnsx]

This thread has dragged on so long I may have missed a few things but I don't recall you mentioning:

1. Shutting off the perfectly useless Microsoft Zero Configuration Wireless service - I mentioned this and someone else repeated it but I didn't see you respond.

2. Replacing any Microsoft built-in drivers with the latest from the manufacturer's web site for whichever adapter you are currently using.

I repeat, yet again, my objections to USB network adapters.

If this was anything besides XP at this point I would be suggesting nuking ALL of the network components (drivers, protocols, services) and re-installing. XP doesn't let you delete TCP/IP per se, but it does let you run a repair. You might also want to run system file checker and see if any system files have been replaced.

Regarding the cables - there is some variation, obviously, in quality and make sure that you are comparing apples to apples but cables and accessories are a huge source of profit for the big box stores.

 

[nsxtasy]

1. Shutting off the perfectly useless Microsoft Zero Configuration Wireless service - I mentioned this and someone else repeated it but I didn't see you respond.

Tried it. Didn't help.

2. Replacing any Microsoft built-in drivers with the latest from the manufacturer's web site for whichever adapter you are currently using.

I've been using the ones that the Linksys installed itself with.

I repeat, yet again, my objections to USB network adapters.

I hear you. Hence my statement regarding replacing the USB adapter with something else - either a wireless PCI card, or a wireless ethernet bridge. (Although the more I read about the latter, the more it sounds like they are designed more for games and printers and other accessory devices.)

If this was anything besides XP at this point I would be suggesting nuking ALL of the network components (drivers, protocols, services) and re-installing. XP doesn't let you delete TCP/IP per se, but it does let you run a repair. You might also want to run system file checker and see if any system files have been replaced.

I've tried repairing the network connection. Didn't help.

Thanks again...

 

[lemansnsx]

Shutting off the ZCW service by itself does nothing. I should have expanded on the topic: shut off ZCW. Delete the hardware adapter in device manager. Restart. Re-install from the latest Linksys drivers - not what came with it and not what Windows XP tries to use - you must tell it to look for the new drivers. Or at this point judge it to be a waste of time and go for a PCI adapter.

 

[nsxtasy]

Shutting off the ZCW service by itself does nothing. I should have expanded on the topic: shut off ZCW. Delete the hardware adapter in device manager. Restart. Re-install from the latest Linksys drivers - not what came with it and not what Windows XP tries to use - you must tell it to look for the new drivers.

Tried it. Didn't work.

go for a PCI adapter.

I guess that's next...