Anyone in the southeast want to help me out with this install. I have the kit and I have a spare regulator, but can't seem to find the time to install this. LOL 
Window regulators upgrade
- Thread starter Hugabuga
- Start date
Do you have any kits available for sale? I'm interested in a pair, could you please let me know when they will be ready? Thanks!
Hugo,
Please email me when these are available.
Thanks,
Ken
Please email me when these are available.
Thanks,
Ken
Anyone in the southeast want to help me out with this install. I have the kit and I have a spare regulator, but can't seem to find the time to install this. LOL
I'd be happy to do it for you if I were there, or if your car were here.
Anyone in the southeast want to help me out with this install. I have the kit and I have a spare regulator, but can't seem to find the time to install this. LOL
I would be interested in some kind of tech day for this upgrade on my 91. I think the regulator was replaced a few years back...need to check the service records...but the last owner had the tracks cleaned and re-lubed so I suspect the windows will be a problem soon if I don't fix things. I'm in Long Beach, MS...about two and a half hours from P'cola. There is another new '91 nsx owner over here who might want to participate. Of course both of us would have to order and receive kits before any get-together.
I will post a query on the southeast and south-central boards to see if anyone else in the P'cola/Mobile/Biloxi-Gulfport/New Orleans area might be interested.
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I need to get this kit (may as well get two so I can replace both side at the same time). I saw that Angus sells them in BC, but where in CA can I pick them up? (probably in this thread, but I went to the last page...and through the vendor page as well)
Track Addict: you have PM, I have available kits.
This is DIY section, there are no kits here :tongue:
Kits are in the vendor section thread, here: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136481
This is DIY section, there are no kits here :tongue:
Kits are in the vendor section thread, here: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136481
Many of you are getting impatient, so let me announce here that Teflon guides are ready yes, here is the my ultimate mod for the NSX WINDOWS REGULATOR, here are the first pictures :biggrin:
Guides are made of Teflon by mould injection process.
I choose not to add any coloration pigment, they have the natural color of Teflon that is why they are milky light blue :wink:
Because here is the DIY section, I will continue all the reasearch, testings and discussions of the KIT on the Vendors section,
here: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1413996#post1413996
Thank you
Guides are made of Teflon by mould injection process.
I choose not to add any coloration pigment, they have the natural color of Teflon that is why they are milky light blue :wink:
Because here is the DIY section, I will continue all the reasearch, testings and discussions of the KIT on the Vendors section,
here: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1413996#post1413996
Thank you
Don't mean to rain on this parade, but... in the past I have had poor results using Teflon to bush anything -- it tends to "cold flow" (distort) over time. Tried it for lots of things -- like anti-roll bar bushings for example -- never happy with the results. Material like Delrin offers similar "slippery-ness" but does not cold flow.
Just my $0.02... your mileage may vary.
Just my $0.02... your mileage may vary.
SFNSXGuy: any "rain" is welcome, we are here to discuss!
I went for Teflon ( or PolyTetraFluoroEthylene PTFE ) because it is known to have good behaviour especially over aluminium, one of its most well known application being used in welding torch liner for feeding aluminium wire, to reduce drag and prevent it from jamming.
If we search in wikipedia we can read: "PTFE has one of the lowest coefficients of friction against any solid". It also has high corrosion resistance that means it won't deteriorate over any grease like the OEM rubber guides, and primemembers tends to use and try many types of different greases to lub their tracks:biggrin:
It has also self-lubricant properties, this is way I decided to use it.
Its "cold flow" over time, if any, will always be much less than the one found in OEM rubber flexibility or deterioration due to grease
I am not too familiar of Delrin (or PolyOxyMethylene POM), from wikipedia POM is characterized by its high strength, hardness and rigidity...is a tough material with a very low coefficient of friction. However, it is susceptible to polymer degradation catalyzed by acids.
A too hard material may end up damaging the "soft" aluminium track to my opinion
Therefor, I was not looking for the most hard or rigid material like the one we would be looking for for the bushings, but one that reduces friction over aluminium, wich I believe Teflon is the best solution
I went for Teflon ( or PolyTetraFluoroEthylene PTFE ) because it is known to have good behaviour especially over aluminium, one of its most well known application being used in welding torch liner for feeding aluminium wire, to reduce drag and prevent it from jamming.
If we search in wikipedia we can read: "PTFE has one of the lowest coefficients of friction against any solid". It also has high corrosion resistance that means it won't deteriorate over any grease like the OEM rubber guides, and primemembers tends to use and try many types of different greases to lub their tracks:biggrin:
It has also self-lubricant properties, this is way I decided to use it.
Its "cold flow" over time, if any, will always be much less than the one found in OEM rubber flexibility or deterioration due to grease
I am not too familiar of Delrin (or PolyOxyMethylene POM), from wikipedia POM is characterized by its high strength, hardness and rigidity...is a tough material with a very low coefficient of friction. However, it is susceptible to polymer degradation catalyzed by acids.
A too hard material may end up damaging the "soft" aluminium track to my opinion
Therefor, I was not looking for the most hard or rigid material like the one we would be looking for for the bushings, but one that reduces friction over aluminium, wich I believe Teflon is the best solution
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shawn110975
Suspended
Hugo, again your the man. and any " Rain " I am sure you would develop an auto up Umberella and shrug off the non followers.
you def do your research before you post a thread like most including myself.
you def do your research before you post a thread like most including myself.
Hi Hugo
I have paypal you the money for the window fix but have not heard back from you since I have sent it. Did you get the money? Do you know when you will be able to send out the fix?
Thanks
I have paypal you the money for the window fix but have not heard back from you since I have sent it. Did you get the money? Do you know when you will be able to send out the fix?
Thanks
When I opened up my door panels to work on my slow windows, I found some of the black regulator guides lying at the bottom. They had obvious wear marks from being abraded away by the aluminum tracks they slid up and down on.
Edit - this is what they look like:
You can see notches filed into the tops which aren't there in Hugo's pictures above. The grease that was applied in the factory got sticky over time and the increasing friction seems to have pulled the guides off the regulator, letting them drop to the bottom of the door.
The guides should be made of a material that has low friction against aluminum and is not damaged by petroleum products. However, it seems to me that the softer the material, the higher the likelihood that it will abrade quickly and that the guides will get levered off the regulator by aging grease. So maybe the material shouldn’t be too soft, either.
How about a PTFE-filled Delrin? Any materials scientists out there? Did Honda choose to make the OEM guides out of that black material for sound engineering reasons and if so, what were they?
Edit - this is what they look like:
You can see notches filed into the tops which aren't there in Hugo's pictures above. The grease that was applied in the factory got sticky over time and the increasing friction seems to have pulled the guides off the regulator, letting them drop to the bottom of the door.The guides should be made of a material that has low friction against aluminum and is not damaged by petroleum products. However, it seems to me that the softer the material, the higher the likelihood that it will abrade quickly and that the guides will get levered off the regulator by aging grease. So maybe the material shouldn’t be too soft, either.
How about a PTFE-filled Delrin? Any materials scientists out there? Did Honda choose to make the OEM guides out of that black material for sound engineering reasons and if so, what were they?
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Diveboy: you have PM! Thanks for the payment, I sent you the kits on Monday, Tracking is: LX500699215PT.
Here is the DIY section, so please no kits here, just technical discussions:biggrin::biggrin:
Greenberet: the guides usually fall because they also crack on the fixing part to the lever. I saw many nsx without any guides left, and the lever incredibly stayed on trakcs, hold by the cables
I took model on a good unused guide I had to build the mould (not a worn out like the one in your pictures :wink
and choose Teflon for all the reason I mention.
I took the idea on the NSX window tracks guides and the S2000 regulator guides, none of them are made of soft rubber material, so that could only be a(nother) fault on the NSX regulator design, and of course rubber against aluminium can only cause too much friction.
I was also afraid of vibration noises if I replace rubber by an harder material, but truth is that there is none, the window is not fixed to the lever but hold in a lose plate, so operation remains as quietly as before.
Now that the mould is built, I can make guides in any material, all I need is to replace the powder before the injection but Teflon has always be the n.1 solution I was looking for.
Here is the DIY section, so please no kits here, just technical discussions:biggrin::biggrin:
Greenberet: the guides usually fall because they also crack on the fixing part to the lever. I saw many nsx without any guides left, and the lever incredibly stayed on trakcs, hold by the cables
I took model on a good unused guide I had to build the mould (not a worn out like the one in your pictures :wink
and choose Teflon for all the reason I mention. I took the idea on the NSX window tracks guides and the S2000 regulator guides, none of them are made of soft rubber material, so that could only be a(nother) fault on the NSX regulator design, and of course rubber against aluminium can only cause too much friction.
I was also afraid of vibration noises if I replace rubber by an harder material, but truth is that there is none, the window is not fixed to the lever but hold in a lose plate, so operation remains as quietly as before.
Now that the mould is built, I can make guides in any material, all I need is to replace the powder before the injection but Teflon has always be the n.1 solution I was looking for.
Hi guys!
Today it was holiday here in Portugal, so I had time to shoot the movie about the Teflon guides benefits
I bought a "pocket balance" to measure the friction of the guides over a totally cleaned and 0% greased track.
Friction with OEM rubber guides goes upto 5Kg in the movie ( about 2kg at the moment I took the picture)
With Teflon guides, I found ZERO 0,0 KG friction, lever simply "glides" by its own weight and gravity, this is absolutely impossible with OEM guides, and remember there is NO GREASE on the track/guides!
As Teflon is plastic, and lever ends gliding over the track:
I choose a classic hit french song from Plastic Bertrand, called "ca plane pour moi", means "it glides for me"...have fun! :biggrin::biggrin:
"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uYrtj48JZ_I?hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344">
Oh no, not that water bottle again!! :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin: (I only used it to check the calibration of the balance...)
Today it was holiday here in Portugal, so I had time to shoot the movie about the Teflon guides benefits
I bought a "pocket balance" to measure the friction of the guides over a totally cleaned and 0% greased track.
Friction with OEM rubber guides goes upto 5Kg in the movie ( about 2kg at the moment I took the picture)
With Teflon guides, I found ZERO 0,0 KG friction, lever simply "glides" by its own weight and gravity, this is absolutely impossible with OEM guides, and remember there is NO GREASE on the track/guides!
As Teflon is plastic, and lever ends gliding over the track:
I choose a classic hit french song from Plastic Bertrand, called "ca plane pour moi", means "it glides for me"...have fun! :biggrin::biggrin:
"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/uYrtj48JZ_I?hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344">
Oh no, not that water bottle again!! :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin::biggrin: (I only used it to check the calibration of the balance...)
shawn110975
Suspended
Hugo,
you better send me a set damn it man can I just send you a bunch of money and when you come out with the next mod just ship me the first one LOL
def send me one.
will check the vendors section
cool ass mod.
I saw the video I thought oh no another water bottle test. LOL
loved the music to I could listen to it even thought I dont speak it.
you better send me a set damn it man can I just send you a bunch of money and when you come out with the next mod just ship me the first one LOL
def send me one.
will check the vendors section
cool ass mod.
I saw the video I thought oh no another water bottle test. LOL
loved the music to I could listen to it even thought I dont speak it.
Hey man.. get in line. He promised me the first set! jk haha
I always love Hugo's music selections.
Hugo - Is there any significant "play" between the rails and the new guides? The nearly 0 resistance is wonderful but also kind of worries me if it's too loose in there? I'm assuming it doesn't wobble about?
shawn110975
Suspended
RYU I dont think it will wobble its just a track that it slide up and down on.
as long as your cables are wound up tight per Hugo's instructional video
the window will FLY up and down with both upgrades
I wonder how fast the window would go up with new motor, hugo guides and hugo pulley
I bet 3-4 sec max thats fast
as long as your cables are wound up tight per Hugo's instructional video
the window will FLY up and down with both upgrades
I wonder how fast the window would go up with new motor, hugo guides and hugo pulley
I bet 3-4 sec max thats fast
There is enough guides for everyone I am sure, shawn1975 and RYU you will both be the first ones :biggrin:
RYU: yes, you have a point, there is some play to have zero resistance, I was afraid it could perhaps make a "crunck" sound but the weight of the glass prevents the lever from "shacking". If you compare the 4 guides of the window track have even more play and are also made of plastic!
Problem I found so far is with earlier 91-93 really deformed levers (the ones where the white thingy part already broke), the 4 guides are not aligned anymore! I will soon post a solution for that case.
Although guides are made of teflon, greasing the track is still needed to prevent wear of parts including the aluminium track itself of course!
RYU: yes, you have a point, there is some play to have zero resistance, I was afraid it could perhaps make a "crunck" sound but the weight of the glass prevents the lever from "shacking". If you compare the 4 guides of the window track have even more play and are also made of plastic!
Problem I found so far is with earlier 91-93 really deformed levers (the ones where the white thingy part already broke), the 4 guides are not aligned anymore! I will soon post a solution for that case.
Although guides are made of teflon, greasing the track is still needed to prevent wear of parts including the aluminium track itself of course!
Hugo,
What are these guides going to cost per window? When will they be available?
Way to go,
Brad
What are these guides going to cost per window? When will they be available?
Way to go,
Brad
Brad: you can find all the commercial info of the kits here
Is Ben Kingsley talking about the Window kit? :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
">
Have fun!
Hugo<object width="425" height="344"></object><object width="425" height="344">
<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/302O62ht9VE?hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>
Is Ben Kingsley talking about the Window kit? :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
">
Have fun!
Hugo<object width="425" height="344"></object><object width="425" height="344">
<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/302O62ht9VE?hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>
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