I nominate this for thread of the year! :smile:
And your avatar for avatar of the year! :biggrin:
And your avatar for avatar of the year! :biggrin:
Window regulators upgrade
- Thread starter Hugabuga
- Start date
- Joined
- 7 February 2010
- Messages
- 618
Have you had a chance to open up the inside of the motor itself?
I am wondering because I've been wanting to open a nsx window motor up. In my ford F250 pickup, I had a failing power door lock motor. The motor felt weak and couldn't even turn the motor strong enough to open or close the locks. Turned out, it uses something a tiny piece of metal that I've heard is called a "thermal resistor". It resided inside the motor housing itself and located next to one of the brushes. The purpose of it is to prevent the motor from burning out if you for example, press and hold down the door lock button. The thermal resistor builds up a resistance and prevents burning out the motor. Over time, the thermal resistor apparently ended up maintaining a high resistance and so hardly any energy made it past to the brushes.
What I did with my truck's door lock motor was remove the thermal resistor and wrapped it in a tiny piece of heavy duty aluminum foil, like used for cooking. And reinserted it back in the motor. Now the motor pops the locks with the max amount of energy available.
Just an idea but not sure how its related to the nsx door window motor. I figure there has to be some sort of thermal resistor also in the nsx window motor to prevent it from burning out when people hold down the button too long too often.
I am wondering because I've been wanting to open a nsx window motor up. In my ford F250 pickup, I had a failing power door lock motor. The motor felt weak and couldn't even turn the motor strong enough to open or close the locks. Turned out, it uses something a tiny piece of metal that I've heard is called a "thermal resistor". It resided inside the motor housing itself and located next to one of the brushes. The purpose of it is to prevent the motor from burning out if you for example, press and hold down the door lock button. The thermal resistor builds up a resistance and prevents burning out the motor. Over time, the thermal resistor apparently ended up maintaining a high resistance and so hardly any energy made it past to the brushes.
What I did with my truck's door lock motor was remove the thermal resistor and wrapped it in a tiny piece of heavy duty aluminum foil, like used for cooking. And reinserted it back in the motor. Now the motor pops the locks with the max amount of energy available.
Just an idea but not sure how its related to the nsx door window motor. I figure there has to be some sort of thermal resistor also in the nsx window motor to prevent it from burning out when people hold down the button too long too often.
Yes Menfou, you'll always need to open the motor gear housing to loosen the cable tension and fit the pulley.
Excellent idea FogCityNSX!!
the NSX motor has indeed a protection device but it is a thermal switch, not a thermal resistance like the one in your pickup.
Here is the opened NSX motor:
So as long as it turns, it turns with its maximum power!
Excellent idea FogCityNSX!!
the NSX motor has indeed a protection device but it is a thermal switch, not a thermal resistance like the one in your pickup.
Here is the opened NSX motor:
So as long as it turns, it turns with its maximum power!
She is in fact a very nice looking chick!
If that was my car...I would never wash that rear fender again!
And if that was my girl...well I guess I wont' be doing all this research! :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
If that was my car...I would never wash that rear fender again!
And if that was my girl...well I guess I wont' be doing all this research! :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
shawn110975
Suspended
Yeah me either I wouldnt wash that part of the car ever again.. LOL got any other pics of her?
Was woundering if it would be possible to put in the pulley by taking out the lil plastic thingy witch would separate the cable. Instead of taking the regulator motor apart and then you could install an aluminum thingy from sos? Unless the thingy is on a different cable.Or you have to change the tension on the sring in the motor.
No PATCHEZ, you will always need to open the motor gear housing because you also need to sleeve the axle, that is also part of the kit! A pulley with a worn axle probably won't bring you any noticeable improvement.
And no, it is impossible to remove the cable that way, because you need to pull that thingy out of its support, so first you must relieve some cable tension by opening the motor, it is the only way.
Ask Ramon to do it! :biggrin:
And no, it is impossible to remove the cable that way, because you need to pull that thingy out of its support, so first you must relieve some cable tension by opening the motor, it is the only way.
Ask Ramon to do it! :biggrin:
I have been able to remove the cable heads from the "fixit" spot by using locking pliers (vice grips). Never did open the motor or drive assembly.
1. remove regulator from door.
2. use door switch to fully extend transport to the top of the regulator.
3. use a rag to wrap end of cable, immediately before window bracket, and lock/grip cable tightly with locking pliers (careful not to fray cable).
4. put top of regulator on ground/cement, bottom of regulator "standing up"
5. using pliers, drive the cable toward the ground and the cable head will come out easily enough.
Same process to install the cable head/fixit thingy.
I did this several times when working with my regulator, not a problem.
Drew
There is enough "play" to get the cables loose without dismantling the motor assembly. But the play is so minor that you'll need to use your arm muscles to get a few mm. Just enough to take one side out of the fix-it "widget".
Just a thought here, are you going to replace the top plastic with 2 pulleys as well?
Just a thought here, are you going to replace the top plastic with 2 pulleys as well?
Would using a brass rod as a sleeve over the axle be better than using a steel rod?
Crankshaft bearings are made of a different material than the crankshaft and valve guides are made of a different material than the valve stems. For decades now, Leica has used the material pairing brass against steel in the screw gears that focus their camera lenses. It seems there would be a benefit to using a sleeve material that is dissimilar to the axle material - and if the axle is steel, brass may be good for the sleeve.
Crankshaft bearings are made of a different material than the crankshaft and valve guides are made of a different material than the valve stems. For decades now, Leica has used the material pairing brass against steel in the screw gears that focus their camera lenses. It seems there would be a benefit to using a sleeve material that is dissimilar to the axle material - and if the axle is steel, brass may be good for the sleeve.
greenberet: the axle is made of PLASTIC! Then there is a gape between the worn part of the axle and the sleeve, a grass sleeve would probably get deformed as it is a soft material, a steel one won't.
dablackgoku1234: to fit an upper pulley you would have to destroy the original guide, that is something I would like to avoid.
The lower guide will simply be replaced by the pulley, you can always put things back to their original configuration (except the drilled core of course).
And the more complicated you make it, the more it will be subject to fail.
But I will think of that.
drew: I don't know how you managed to do it that way but I believe you did it. I tried but was unable to.
Nice.
dablackgoku1234: to fit an upper pulley you would have to destroy the original guide, that is something I would like to avoid.
The lower guide will simply be replaced by the pulley, you can always put things back to their original configuration (except the drilled core of course).
And the more complicated you make it, the more it will be subject to fail.
But I will think of that.
drew: I don't know how you managed to do it that way but I believe you did it. I tried but was unable to.
Nice.
Here is the diy on taking the thingy out. This is why I had my original? This was done in the car but of corse you would take the door apart to but in the pulley.
http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/DIY/thingy_install.htm
http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/DIY/thingy_install.htm
PATCHEZ: perhaps you could also relieve some cable tension by compressing the cable springs just to remove the cable endings from the thingy part? The motor assembly can be pulled out of door with the regulator frame still attached, just to have access to the cable springs.
Yesterday I had a too busy day, so I didn't have time to collect the aluminium support, this will have to wait until Monday now.
Meanwhile a took some pictures of those "thingy" parts.
In the left is the NSX, in the right the S2000. We can notice the obvious evolution of this part with reduced height and reinforced sidewalls, much less subject to fail in the S2000 of course
But in the NSX, they also made some evolution, the 94+ regulator have in fact a sidewall protection that prevents the thingy part to open even if it has begun to crack: left one is a 94+ regulator, right one an earlier one
If you have an early 91 to 93 NSX, most probably the driver side regulator has already failed (is the most used one) and was replaced by a 94+.
A cheap solution is to simply invert its positions as the crack will form next to the upper cable as it is the one that pulls the weight of the glass!
What I did was to exchange the thingy parts from both regulator and place them in their inverted position, they should resist for a few more years now :smile:
The small crack in the lower side of left thingy is now inoffensive while positioned in its original way as the upper part of the right thingy is a threat to regulator failure.
Of course you the S0S aluminium thingys are the ultimate solution!
Yesterday I had a too busy day, so I didn't have time to collect the aluminium support, this will have to wait until Monday now.
Meanwhile a took some pictures of those "thingy" parts.
In the left is the NSX, in the right the S2000. We can notice the obvious evolution of this part with reduced height and reinforced sidewalls, much less subject to fail in the S2000 of course
But in the NSX, they also made some evolution, the 94+ regulator have in fact a sidewall protection that prevents the thingy part to open even if it has begun to crack: left one is a 94+ regulator, right one an earlier one
If you have an early 91 to 93 NSX, most probably the driver side regulator has already failed (is the most used one) and was replaced by a 94+.
A cheap solution is to simply invert its positions as the crack will form next to the upper cable as it is the one that pulls the weight of the glass!
What I did was to exchange the thingy parts from both regulator and place them in their inverted position, they should resist for a few more years now :smile:
The small crack in the lower side of left thingy is now inoffensive while positioned in its original way as the upper part of the right thingy is a threat to regulator failure.
Of course you the S0S aluminium thingys are the ultimate solution!
Another solution could be a small U-profile part to prevent the white thingy part to open 
It fits and passes very tightly but would be subject to come out I think, SOS are in fact the best solution for earlier 91'-93' models
If you look closely, you can also see a gape between the upper and lower side of the thingy and the transport part walls for the early model 91 to 93 (right side of picture).
This is due to DEFORMATION over time that has been corrected from '94 on with a new and better designed part.
Here's a completely deformed 91' regulator transport part, upper and lower walls of the thingy support are not parallel anymore!!!
A simple solution is to invert the LEFT and RIGHT transport part of the regulators, as these are simetrics. Just exchange the white side specific part screwed on them of course, this will give them a few more years of duty:wink:
Anyway, this has nothing to do with window speed.
It fits and passes very tightly but would be subject to come out I think, SOS are in fact the best solution for earlier 91'-93' models
If you look closely, you can also see a gape between the upper and lower side of the thingy and the transport part walls for the early model 91 to 93 (right side of picture).
This is due to DEFORMATION over time that has been corrected from '94 on with a new and better designed part.
Here's a completely deformed 91' regulator transport part, upper and lower walls of the thingy support are not parallel anymore!!!
A simple solution is to invert the LEFT and RIGHT transport part of the regulators, as these are simetrics. Just exchange the white side specific part screwed on them of course, this will give them a few more years of duty:wink:
Anyway, this has nothing to do with window speed.
Hugo,
thanks for the contribution.
Symptoms- my driver window rolled down but did nothing going up. Upon removal I find the cable partially snap and got tangle in the sleeves guide and pully.
I Disassemble motor winding just to remove the stuck cable. I put everything back together thinking is going to work. Now my motor coils gets real hot and won't do anything. Any suggestion?
I proceeded to remove the coil/magnetic but didn't see anything I can service.
I do have a passenger regulator and motor. I was thinking of swapping the passenger motor and cable to the driver side regulator.
Danny
thanks for the contribution.
Symptoms- my driver window rolled down but did nothing going up. Upon removal I find the cable partially snap and got tangle in the sleeves guide and pully.
I Disassemble motor winding just to remove the stuck cable. I put everything back together thinking is going to work. Now my motor coils gets real hot and won't do anything. Any suggestion?
I proceeded to remove the coil/magnetic but didn't see anything I can service.
I do have a passenger regulator and motor. I was thinking of swapping the passenger motor and cable to the driver side regulator.
Danny
how does this go together, I manage to damage the 2 little spring.
Sexyred: the motor is side-specific but also are the gear housing cores, you would need to invert the cables to make it work I think, but it could probably be done.
Have you checked the gear tooth? if it does not turn and gets hot, something must be blocking it.
I have a spare driver motor regulator internal parts, so if you can't manage to fix it this should solve the problem, I just need them a few more days to complete my work :biggrin:
Have you checked the gear tooth? if it does not turn and gets hot, something must be blocking it.
I have a spare driver motor regulator internal parts, so if you can't manage to fix it this should solve the problem, I just need them a few more days to complete my work :biggrin:
The cable got bunch up when I put back together. On another try, manage o put the entire coil/housing together and now it won't do anything.
I did do your pulley mod, yeah it was easy. I had 2 pulley available from a Lexus regulator. Last week was my wife car, this week my car regulator broke. It national regulator month or something.
Danny
I did do your pulley mod, yeah it was easy. I had 2 pulley available from a Lexus regulator. Last week was my wife car, this week my car regulator broke. It national regulator month or something.
Danny
The pulley support is finally ready, here's how it looks like :biggrin:
Idea is to be Plug & Play, that means a direct replacement of the white 180º plastic cable guide:smile:
Then with the pulley screwed on it, just to check the clearances in full open position...
Tomorrow I will try to quantify the benefits of the pulley, and the amount of drag produced by the upper guides...:wink:
Idea is to be Plug & Play, that means a direct replacement of the white 180º plastic cable guide:smile:
Then with the pulley screwed on it, just to check the clearances in full open position...
Tomorrow I will try to quantify the benefits of the pulley, and the amount of drag produced by the upper guides...:wink:
Today I tried to measure the cable drag. I used 5L water cans, one of them was dripping to create weight loss :biggrin:
In the left is the original white plastic guide, in the right the pulley.
A 2m cable passes through them, holding 5L water cans on each side, right one is dripping!
As soon as cans starts to drip, cable guiding drag is the only force that keeps them balanced...but not for long...
DRAG is equivalent of the amount of water that dripped from the right can at the moment they started to move....right??
In the 2nd part of the experience, I used the regulator frame to measure the drag effect of the upper cable guide, again with gravity and water cans.
Yet another movie!...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgciP0VNX_4
I added some Portuguese music this time to turn it less boring...I found the lyrics to be appropriate since the water cans are back again!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
Hope you like it
short conclusions:
-pulley has almost no drag at all.
-white plastic guide has about "half can of drag", that's 2.5L= 2.5Kg= 50% of glass weight!!!
-upper cable guide has about "1L of drag", that's 1Kg, about 33% of the original lower 180º cable guide drag
In the left is the original white plastic guide, in the right the pulley.
A 2m cable passes through them, holding 5L water cans on each side, right one is dripping!
As soon as cans starts to drip, cable guiding drag is the only force that keeps them balanced...but not for long...
DRAG is equivalent of the amount of water that dripped from the right can at the moment they started to move....right??
In the 2nd part of the experience, I used the regulator frame to measure the drag effect of the upper cable guide, again with gravity and water cans.
Yet another movie!...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgciP0VNX_4
I added some Portuguese music this time to turn it less boring...I found the lyrics to be appropriate since the water cans are back again!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
Hope you like it
short conclusions:
-pulley has almost no drag at all.
-white plastic guide has about "half can of drag", that's 2.5L= 2.5Kg= 50% of glass weight!!!
-upper cable guide has about "1L of drag", that's 1Kg, about 33% of the original lower 180º cable guide drag
so... with this, do you think that it's worth to try to install a upper pulley ?
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