Why my NSX went and Viper stayed

[RPM217]

what's your handle on fordgtforum.com? I'm on as well. I don't post as much because it's way less.....interesting.... over there to do so. Especially with mods that hit the "delete post" button about as often as I hit redline in my FGT.

jcsb

Here is one of the posts on a build I'm doing.

http://www.fordgtforum.com/forums/s...as-a-project-ever-really-gotten-away-from-you!

I posted a Ferrari build I'm doing because the Ferrarichat site gets their panties all in a wad when you say your changing something. :tongue:

John

We need to open up a new topic, NSX owners who want their cake, and eat it too. Lots of us that keep 'em both, see the value and thrill in both, and don't have Vipers!

 

[tbromley]

I am one of those people who have both and a lot of others. You can follow me on either Ford GT forum, Ferrarichat, and several other forums. Of the cars I’ve owned or still own the Ford GT and my Audi R8 are without a doubt the best examples of a well thought out, quality built sports car for the price. This is the second NSX I’ve owned and I got rid of a 2003 Viper convertible about a year ago.
The Viper is about as technologically advanced as a truck. Consider the OHV engine in which to get some horsepower they merely installed garbage can sized pistons to accomplish their goal, very advanced. Then to the clutch, nothing to speak of there, so to the transmission, and so on. Nothing special other than an attempt to get some cheap horsepower with an oversized engine. Not much pencil to paper here.
Since I wrench on many of my cars I experience first hand the quality, engineering, and technique that goes into the manufacture of the car. I remember reading that the exhaust note from a Viper reminded someone of a UPS truck (noted from Viperalley). Well my stock exhaust did, so I installed a B&B free flow cats and their exhaust, while removing 60lbs of additional exhaust from the stock set up. So now I sounded like a really loud UPS truck. In the process of doing that I was amused at the side exhaust covers that were made of cheap thin sheet metal and how they cost $2600 each. Then when I was chasing a wire on the passenger side front under the dash I nearly cut my hand off from the lack of deburring. Now the cool part about this is the wire bundle runs down that channel so here is a short waiting to happen. Spent a few bucks and rubber capped it. I can keep going like this forever, but even putting the top down is truly pathetic. You have to get out and open the trunk up so that you can put the top down or up (manually). Now that was another exercise in engineering brilliance. Are the Vipers fast, yes but it was done on the cheap. No real engineering expertise here and the quality of the build reminds me of a Yugo.
The NSX was a well thought out quality sports car. Consider the fact that my 91 3.0 liter engine manages to put out 270 hp and the Viper at (Gen III) with 8.3 liters manages to put out 500 hp. So if you efficiency the NXS is putting out 90 hp per liter while the Viper is putting out approx. 60 per liter. Not exactly impressive numbers. Just so you know my 5.4 liter 2005 Ford GT with a pulley and tune put out 640 hp and stock it was 550 hp. As an engineer I appreciate the time someone puts into designing a quality product and I also see when they didn’t.
With all this said I remember when I was in college in LA you could buy a gallon of Mountain Gold wine for $3.00. Plenty of wine and got you just as drunk as a fine Pinot Noir. So when quantity is your only criteria, then just do it. :wink:

This post is not only funny but very educational. Very good write up! Thanks!

To those that say he may be back - who cares....I mean really. As my buddy Rbilder says - when you post one like this better have your flame suite on big time and when you find out your 3 quarts low - and have trouble with maintenance - man you need to really learn about how to take care of a car! Geezy peezy - the OP is flaming and burning and I don't mean him any ill will - viper - nsx - whatever - gotta sell one for your daughter to have a car - somethings gotta go - but don't extoll the virtues of an 800 lb gorilla and expect us to say - yeah wish I had a Viper - cause most of us don't.

If I had the room in a large garrage and the money to fill it - there wouldn't be a viper in it! Ford GT - yes - but Viper - no. R8 yes - 911 Turbo yes, Ferrari yes - Lambo - maybe at least for a while. :biggrin:

It's all about choices but if you're not careful with maintenance - you're gonna blow anything.

 

[jcsb]

This post is not only funny but very educational. Very good write up! Thanks!


If I had the room in a large garrage and the money to fill it - there wouldn't be a viper in it! Ford GT - yes - but Viper - no. R8 yes - 911 Turbo yes, Ferrari yes - Lambo - maybe at least for a while. :biggrin:

It's all about choices but if you're not careful with maintenance - you're gonna blow anything.

Yep, the one thing you start to learn when you either wrench on a car or really get involved in one is that some are just not very well engineered. The cars you mentioned and this certainly includes the NSX are well engineered. I appreciate the quality of the design and materials that go into of these cars and fortunate to own them. :biggrin:

John

 

[snakey]

hummmm are you asian?

No but I wish I was so I had more money

have you guys ever seen snakey...he looks like a viper owner......"powerful" :wink: http://forums.viperclub.org/srt10-srt10-coupe-discussions/633067-border-patrol-viper-z06.html I of course am a little more of a girly man :redface:

That picture made me almost cry. Ive lost 30 pounds since then and only lift twice a week now. Dang I was HUGE. I was like..Darn..Who the hell is that..LOL.. But as you get older just trying not to have a gut is the new challange

Just to add my 2 cents to the fray: thanks for the post Snakey and good luck with your Viper. I'm sorry your NSX experience wasn't was good as many of ours.

As Tim mentioned, having an engine blow up regardless of the circumstances or who is to blame would sour any ownership experience. I'm just dissapointed Snakey never investigated the many excellent FI options out there for the car like Lovefab, Wil (Angus) and SOS. Any one of these folks could set you up with a NSX that will destroy a stock Viper. The Honda C3X engine is a robust platfrom- Super GT NSXs used this engine to produce 500+ hp under race conditions. So, if you really want it, the NSX can be made as fast as any "modern" supercar. Personally, I don't think Snakey was ever that enthralled with the NSX in the first place. Most of his posts that I recall were always comparing the NSX to his Vipers.

These "comparo" threads in general bother me, as there is very little utility in bench racing these cars against each other. So much of a sports car experience to me is the intangible stuff. Some cars just feel "right" and others, though they may be superior on paper, don't. For example, I am this way about Porsches (sorry, Tim). I can't stand 'em. I know they are super fast, I know they have a great heritage and I know that they are raced all over the world in GT classes high and low. But, they don't feel right to me. I have driven 924, 944, 993, 996 and 997 P-cars and they all feel wrong. I don't like the gearbox, I don't like the pedals, I don't like the steering feel and the engine in the 911 models is in the wrong place. Notice how none of these complaints mentioned comparing dyno charts or nebulous 0-60 times from some magazine test. Instead, I just don't like 'em. This is such a personal feeling, that comparing cars doesn't really get us anywhere because different people like different intangibles. I'm sure there are plenty of folks out there that think a 993 Turbo Porsche (my teenage dream car btw until I actually drove one lol) is the best sports car ever!

So, when I see threads like "Which is better, NSX or Viper?" I roll my eyes. Nobody can tell you the answer to that question because nobody else is you. Clearly, Snakey always liked his Viper more than his NSX- it just means the Viper's intangibles were better for him. In truth, it would have been a mistake for him to spend $15k on a 700hp Lovefab turbo setup, since all he would be doing is trying to make his NSX into a Viper. Better to just get the Viper. I have driven a Viper and I think it's a brute and a handful. That sort of stuff gets real old real fast for me and the thought of driving that car for more than 30 minutes makes me shudder. On the other hand, I feel that my NSX gives me the best driving experience out of any car I've been exposed to. It is sedate enough to tool around town and, if driven properly it can deliver more thrill than I can manage at my present level of driving skill. Plus, all of the other intangibles that make NSXs popular despite being "slow."

great post

whats up Snakey, remember me? :wink:

I am sorry you had to make that decision. I hope to own an NSX one day, and hope to never have to choose between my C6 Z06 and the NSX. They are two different experiences.

But I will say, I bought the C6 Z06 before the NSX because it is unmatched at its price point in performance, technology and looks. My Z06 puts down 540rwhp and weighs less than your Viper. Cars like these are a very visceral experience. I LOVE the performance feel of a big NA engine. And Z06's and Vipers can turn too.

So I understand where you are coming from, from a performance stand point. Just sorry to hear you had to part with your NSX as it is a special driving experience too.

Good luck in your travels.

Of course I remember you brother. Ive got a camshaft going in the Viper this week and hope to join you in the mid 500's crowd soon.

You'll be back... they always do.

sorry man. Wont be back. Next car will be a fcar or lambo..Maybe a R8 in white if the price is right. I will be looking in the 80K range so it wont be anything special. But hey. A used gallardo is still a Lambo rolling down the road!

I am one of those people who have both and a lot of others. You can follow me on either Ford GT forum, Ferrarichat, and several other forums. Of the cars I’ve owned or still own the Ford GT and my Audi R8 are without a doubt the best examples of a well thought out, quality built sports car for the price. This is the second NSX I’ve owned and I got rid of a 2003 Viper convertible about a year ago.
The Viper is about as technologically advanced as a truck. Consider the OHV engine in which to get some horsepower they merely installed garbage can sized pistons to accomplish their goal, very advanced. Then to the clutch, nothing to speak of there, so to the transmission, and so on. Nothing special other than an attempt to get some cheap horsepower with an oversized engine. Not much pencil to paper here.
Since I wrench on many of my cars I experience first hand the quality, engineering, and technique that goes into the manufacture of the car. I remember reading that the exhaust note from a Viper reminded someone of a UPS truck (noted from Viperalley). Well my stock exhaust did, so I installed a B&B free flow cats and their exhaust, while removing 60lbs of additional exhaust from the stock set up. So now I sounded like a really loud UPS truck. In the process of doing that I was amused at the side exhaust covers that were made of cheap thin sheet metal and how they cost $2600 each. Then when I was chasing a wire on the passenger side front under the dash I nearly cut my hand off from the lack of deburring. Now the cool part about this is the wire bundle runs down that channel so here is a short waiting to happen. Spent a few bucks and rubber capped it. I can keep going like this forever, but even putting the top down is truly pathetic. You have to get out and open the trunk up so that you can put the top down or up (manually). Now that was another exercise in engineering brilliance. Are the Vipers fast, yes but it was done on the cheap. No real engineering expertise here and the quality of the build reminds me of a Yugo.
The NSX was a well thought out quality sports car. Consider the fact that my 91 3.0 liter engine manages to put out 270 hp and the Viper at (Gen III) with 8.3 liters manages to put out 500 hp. So if you efficiency the NXS is putting out 90 hp per liter while the Viper is putting out approx. 60 per liter. Not exactly impressive numbers. Just so you know my 5.4 liter 2005 Ford GT with a pulley and tune put out 640 hp and stock it was 550 hp. As an engineer I appreciate the time someone puts into designing a quality product and I also see when they didn’t.
With all this said I remember when I was in college in LA you could buy a gallon of Mountain Gold wine for $3.00. Plenty of wine and got you just as drunk as a fine Pinot Noir. So when quantity is your only criteria, then just do it. :wink:

I get were your coming from. But from my perspective my wife and I's combined income being above average but far and away from life styles of the rich and famous....... . Im far and away from owning cars of that caliber. The Viper was the most powerful and most exotic as well as most rare car I could aford. NSX was in the same catergory but lacks the power. How I was able to have them both for a few years. Honestly I was very lucky that my wife understands my passion.

So while you say the Viper was cheap ect. I get what your sayin and wish to one day own a FGT to compare it too. But those prices aint coming down. LOL

 

[Cozmo]

So while you say the Viper was cheap ect. I get what your sayin and wish to one day own a FGT to compare it too. But those prices aint coming down. LOL

You probably could've bought one by now with the money you've spent on wrecked vipers

 

[Jin1976]

A lot of angry people here over someone else's car. Relax.

 

[jcsb]

A lot of angry people here over someone else's car. Relax.

Not sure who your talking about, but certainly no anger on my part just a factual recounting of my experiences with my Viper. Being an engineer by trade and a machine shop owner by occupation I review everything I own. Not always to everyones liking, but I do stay factual (maybe with a little humor). I certainly understand Snakeys remarks and would say he's handled the comments well. We all make decisions based on different criteria and I believe I illustrated my view.

There are only a very few cars I have bought again and the NSX is one of them. Once again this was based on my likes and no one elses. Interestingly I had my detractors when I sold the Viper.

John