do we really need to go here again http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132708&highlight=snakey+picture: :confused
Why my NSX went and Viper stayed
- Thread starter snakey
- Start date
+1 here doc. Let's have a little respect for independent opinion and choice to own and drive whatever you desire. We (so far) still live in a democracy where one is free to make their own choices. Vote with your wallet.
In my opinion, it is impossible to compare these two cars. Aside from the fact that both have 4 turning devices (one at each corner) that allow these machines to roll down the highway, and are both powered by internal combustion engines - there's little comparison - you've got to make some fundamental decisions that will take you one direction or the other. So be it. No one's holding a gun to your head and forcing you to buy one or the other. Make your choice, live with it and enjoy!!
It's always a sad day to loose an NSX brother....the prime family feels a warp in the "force". But life is too short to worry about someone elses choices and he had to make a choice - he made it and that's that.
I like both cars - I've never driven a Viper - would like to - never have driven a Vette either - but would like that too. I drove a Mustang GT yesterday just for grins cause my wife was thinking convertible.
One of the things hard to argue is overall massive speed and if that's what you like then the viper in Snakey's case was the right choice. But it's not the speed he'll miss - or maybe even the fact that the NSX isn't as fast on a road course - what I'm guessing he'll miss is the view out the front windshield - man that mustang was fine but you sit down in that car and you don't feel as intimately connected with your surroundings and the road - not even close. The view out of an NSX is one of the first things you notice behind the wheel as you drive. The other thing is that seat- it holds you in place like a race seat - not so in the mustang - it's no performer for a road course. The new Boss might be with the sport recarros but you would have to have em if you were going to track that car - not with the NSX - our NSXs are ready for whatever kind of driving you want to do. They are raw with out PS and I like that. I like a lot of things about my NSX and I love looking at it too.
Choices are always hard - we all have to make them from time to time and sometimes we just get bored with a particular car and want to try something else. In Snakey's case - heck doesn't sound like he's got enough time to do much driving anyway - so no big deal.
Another thing I will say and this would be how I felt - if I put an SC on my car and the engine blew and I had to replace it and go back to NA - it would leave a bad taste in my mouth. If I had to make a choice and I liked HP - Snakey's choice would be the same one I'd make in his shoes.
We don't have to extoll the virtues of either car - hell who are we Primers trying to convince - we all like our cars - and we don't have a choice to make. Many of us have only one toy car and we are enjoying our cars right now - Snakey is enjoying his Viper. Good for him - I have two words for Snakey - DRIVE IT! The fun of ownership to me is the driving experience - and I can't wait to get out there and look out that windshield of mine!
Adios
I like both cars - I've never driven a Viper - would like to - never have driven a Vette either - but would like that too. I drove a Mustang GT yesterday just for grins cause my wife was thinking convertible.
One of the things hard to argue is overall massive speed and if that's what you like then the viper in Snakey's case was the right choice. But it's not the speed he'll miss - or maybe even the fact that the NSX isn't as fast on a road course - what I'm guessing he'll miss is the view out the front windshield - man that mustang was fine but you sit down in that car and you don't feel as intimately connected with your surroundings and the road - not even close. The view out of an NSX is one of the first things you notice behind the wheel as you drive. The other thing is that seat- it holds you in place like a race seat - not so in the mustang - it's no performer for a road course. The new Boss might be with the sport recarros but you would have to have em if you were going to track that car - not with the NSX - our NSXs are ready for whatever kind of driving you want to do. They are raw with out PS and I like that. I like a lot of things about my NSX and I love looking at it too.
Choices are always hard - we all have to make them from time to time and sometimes we just get bored with a particular car and want to try something else. In Snakey's case - heck doesn't sound like he's got enough time to do much driving anyway - so no big deal.
Another thing I will say and this would be how I felt - if I put an SC on my car and the engine blew and I had to replace it and go back to NA - it would leave a bad taste in my mouth. If I had to make a choice and I liked HP - Snakey's choice would be the same one I'd make in his shoes.
We don't have to extoll the virtues of either car - hell who are we Primers trying to convince - we all like our cars - and we don't have a choice to make. Many of us have only one toy car and we are enjoying our cars right now - Snakey is enjoying his Viper. Good for him - I have two words for Snakey - DRIVE IT! The fun of ownership to me is the driving experience - and I can't wait to get out there and look out that windshield of mine!
Adios
I didn't say you could do it with an NSX... but it can easily be done with a domestic... (mustang, camaro, etc)... Been there done that... I can put $1000 into a (fox body) Mustang and get it into low 12s (spend a little more on internals and heads and you're in the mid to high 10s)... Granted this car will only be good in a straight line but it can easily still be driven on the street and/or as a daily driver...
My buddy went from a Corvette, to a Viper to now an EVO and isn't looking back. He's got a family and has to get groceries. And on the way to the grocery store in his 4 door family car, he will blow the doors off just about anything. So I do believe, to each their own, but this was definitely the wrong place to post such a thread without getting a few NSX owners upset. Definitely a Viper forum topic LOL :biggrin:
sucks you got rid of the X though!
I think you are being optimistic - how would you go low 12's in a fox body for $1000? - a shirtload of NOS?
And it'll be "good in a straight line"??? I'm guessing you never had a fast fox body...
and mid to high 10's - you'll spend just about the same money as you would on just about any other car to go 10's...
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You've made a well informed decision may you have many miles of happy motoring :smile:
As the father of two kids (19 months and 6 years old) I think your daughter and one friend would have loved the NSX as a first car :biggrin:
As the father of two kids (19 months and 6 years old) I think your daughter and one friend would have loved the NSX as a first car :biggrin:
Enjoy your Viper. Hope you don't hurt anyone when you wreck this one, like the last few you had. BTW you were warned not to drive your NSX with that splitsecond box. Its your fault for not taking the proper steps to tune your car properly.
Brag about what cars you have owned all you want you are not impressing anyone. You were two cheep to buy the AEM. How did that work out for ya?
Brag about what cars you have owned all you want you are not impressing anyone. You were two cheep to buy the AEM. How did that work out for ya?
It is interesting to read these posts by other auto enthusiasts when comparing differing cars to the NSX. Quarter mile times, tire sizes, cubic inch displacement, wheel horsepower, cost of mods, stock for stock comparisons.... etc. etc.
The friends that define your car and therefore you, seems to be more about acceptance than individualism; poor mans Ferarri, or Japanese Ferarri, cheap Lambo, slow old honda, wanna be exotic... etc. etc. Do your friends define you or do you define yourself? To be honest, the groups of people you are describing are so shallow and so limited in their world view, it is humorous that you are concerned about their opinions at all. You seem like a real person, why limit yourself.
You've missed the whole design excercise that defined the NSX; best handling and most balanced, utterly reliable sports car with an imposed power limit of 300 HP, give or take a few depending on factory tweeking. All designed and executed in the late 80's; isn't it revealing that you are trying to justify 30 year old tech to updated modern designs.
Does the viper "feel" the road as well? Is the view from the viper cockpit as revealing right down to the nose of the car? Does the viper give you as much feedback through the seat of your pants to what all four corners are doing? Can you feel the texture of the pavement through the steering wheel in the viper? If you limited the power of the viper to 300 HP, would it still keep up with the NSX?
Seems silly to compare the NSX to what it isn't, as silly as comparing a 300 HP viper to a stock NSX. Is the viper a cool car, absolutely; are there a whole bunch of cool cars out there, yep. I just don't get the justification you seem to require for your decision. Why not just say that you don't get what the NSX was about and wanted something admittedly raw? You desired acceptance from the local muscle crowd and didn't want to show up with a marathon runners physique and be made fun of.
This thread is more about bragging rights than purists minimumalism, ego vs. id.
The friends that define your car and therefore you, seems to be more about acceptance than individualism; poor mans Ferarri, or Japanese Ferarri, cheap Lambo, slow old honda, wanna be exotic... etc. etc. Do your friends define you or do you define yourself? To be honest, the groups of people you are describing are so shallow and so limited in their world view, it is humorous that you are concerned about their opinions at all. You seem like a real person, why limit yourself.
You've missed the whole design excercise that defined the NSX; best handling and most balanced, utterly reliable sports car with an imposed power limit of 300 HP, give or take a few depending on factory tweeking. All designed and executed in the late 80's; isn't it revealing that you are trying to justify 30 year old tech to updated modern designs.
Does the viper "feel" the road as well? Is the view from the viper cockpit as revealing right down to the nose of the car? Does the viper give you as much feedback through the seat of your pants to what all four corners are doing? Can you feel the texture of the pavement through the steering wheel in the viper? If you limited the power of the viper to 300 HP, would it still keep up with the NSX?
Seems silly to compare the NSX to what it isn't, as silly as comparing a 300 HP viper to a stock NSX. Is the viper a cool car, absolutely; are there a whole bunch of cool cars out there, yep. I just don't get the justification you seem to require for your decision. Why not just say that you don't get what the NSX was about and wanted something admittedly raw? You desired acceptance from the local muscle crowd and didn't want to show up with a marathon runners physique and be made fun of.
This thread is more about bragging rights than purists minimumalism, ego vs. id.
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I still find it amazing that a Honda with early 90's technology is still being compared to late model technology. That should speak for itself.
A fair comparison would be with a 90's viper.
When you look at numbers, of course the viper will have more hp, your comparing a v6(A Legend block with more displacement, Titanium rods, Forged pistons, DOHC Vtec heads) to a v10.
From your ealier posts I can assume that you don't know your late 80's early 90's Japanese automotive history.
From my understanding, all Japanese manufacturers had a "gentleman's agreement" on not building a car over 300 hp(NSX, TT Supra, RX7, TT 300ZX, TT 3000GT) in the 90's because anything over 300hp was thought to be too much.
Now fast forward to today, no holds barred(LFA, GTR, HSV).
As from an investment standpoint, the NSX holds it's value more than a mopar. Might be to all the RnD that went into the first ever production aluminum monocoque chassis/suspension/motor rather than just dropping the biggest motor you can find(good old American ingenuity
).
So another number where the VIPER beats the NSX, "Depreciation".
2005 NSX: $69,150 (http://www.kbb.com/used-cars/acura/...eport?condition=excellent&id=39&mileage=20000http://www.kbb.com/used-cars/acura/...ort?condition=excellent&id=9888&mileage=40000)
2005 VIPER: $43,125 (http://www.kbb.com/used-cars/dodge/...port?condition=excellent&id=459&mileage=20000)
That was a bad investment choice.
If it were my money and I was going to buy a mopar, I would have bought a restored 69 Charger, those cars are sweet and worth more than a Viper.
That said, performance is just time and money for any car. You can make any car fast. It's just how much $ you have.
Good luck with your Viper.
BTW, I still can't believe you traded in an NSX for a KIA? Times must be tough I guess. Arent KIA's under $15k?
A fair comparison would be with a 90's viper.
When you look at numbers, of course the viper will have more hp, your comparing a v6(A Legend block with more displacement, Titanium rods, Forged pistons, DOHC Vtec heads) to a v10.
From your ealier posts I can assume that you don't know your late 80's early 90's Japanese automotive history.
From my understanding, all Japanese manufacturers had a "gentleman's agreement" on not building a car over 300 hp(NSX, TT Supra, RX7, TT 300ZX, TT 3000GT) in the 90's because anything over 300hp was thought to be too much.
Now fast forward to today, no holds barred(LFA, GTR, HSV).
As from an investment standpoint, the NSX holds it's value more than a mopar. Might be to all the RnD that went into the first ever production aluminum monocoque chassis/suspension/motor rather than just dropping the biggest motor you can find(good old American ingenuity
).So another number where the VIPER beats the NSX, "Depreciation".
2005 NSX: $69,150 (http://www.kbb.com/used-cars/acura/...eport?condition=excellent&id=39&mileage=20000http://www.kbb.com/used-cars/acura/...ort?condition=excellent&id=9888&mileage=40000)
2005 VIPER: $43,125 (http://www.kbb.com/used-cars/dodge/...port?condition=excellent&id=459&mileage=20000)
That was a bad investment choice.
If it were my money and I was going to buy a mopar, I would have bought a restored 69 Charger, those cars are sweet and worth more than a Viper.
That said, performance is just time and money for any car. You can make any car fast. It's just how much $ you have.
Good luck with your Viper.
BTW, I still can't believe you traded in an NSX for a KIA? Times must be tough I guess. Arent KIA's under $15k?
Well, I commend you on making a tough choice. I hope your ex-NSX goes to a good home.
However, be aware that no matter what the magazines say, you'll likely never be able to extract all of that performance. In all of my time on track, I've only seen one driver that was able to drive the Viper to it's fullest potential and he's since passed away. I wish it were different b/c the car, as a modern day Shelby Cobra, has a lot going for it. But all of that power and torque don't make for easy handling characteristics and even an experienced driver is going to have his hands full.
But I get it. You like the Viper more and, really, nothing else matters. Good for you!
However, be aware that no matter what the magazines say, you'll likely never be able to extract all of that performance. In all of my time on track, I've only seen one driver that was able to drive the Viper to it's fullest potential and he's since passed away. I wish it were different b/c the car, as a modern day Shelby Cobra, has a lot going for it. But all of that power and torque don't make for easy handling characteristics and even an experienced driver is going to have his hands full.
But I get it. You like the Viper more and, really, nothing else matters. Good for you!
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So you gave your NSX to your daughter? Nice.
Nice videos!!
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my bbsc with aftercooler is going up for sale for well under $5k. that will easily put you at 500 crank hp with appropriate tuning.
let us know which color nsx you decide to buy.
I love this post. I have a friend that has a 2010 zr1 that will not race against my nsx, why, because his 130,000 dollar car might lose. It is easy to own a fast car, it is not so easy to make it go fast. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI8mknEWqO0
I love this post. I have a friend that has a 2010 zr1 that will not race against my nsx, why, because his 130,000 dollar car might lose. It is easy to own a fast car, it is not so easy to make it go fast. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vI8mknEWqO0
i thought zr1's were $105ish?
I actually had a fox body that was running high 10s (on street slicks)... I have the time slips somewhere to prove it... mildly built motor (and YES nitrous)... it had stock/E7TE heads that were hand ported and it was carb'd... I was only a decent set of heads away from running mid-10s... I had $3500 total investment in the car (lots of used aftermarket parts)... You just have to know where to put the money! Could have easily spent another $1500-2000 or less on some heads and maybe a charger and who knows what it would have ran then...
The 5.0L stang has the best aftermarket market out there... so many resources and so many parts (new and used)... you'll be amazed at how cheap it is to make one fly! Especially if you know what you're doing... The only thing I kicked myself for not doing was going with a 351W platform when I built my motor! (Stupid stupid stupid!) I was young and dumb at the time! If I only knew half the things I know now, back then!
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I think everybody needs one of these hanging on their exhaust.
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I am too much of a hot-head not to remark about this thread. I at first was a little offended but hey, to each their own... RIGHT? I was even thought to myself "I like 0-60 times too, did I make the wrong choice", so I read on and on... and then I hear about how this guy likes to impress people, and how he smashed up his prior cars, and blew his engine because he didn't have an AEM and I suppose a proper tune neither.
Im glad he left, good reddens. Guys like this give sports car owners a bad name anyway... and what about the poor guy who got a car that was ABUSED????
When I first read Tim's reply I was thinking "right on - no need to be mean to this dude, he has an informed opinion and I respect that"... but after reading the rest of the story - let this douche say what he wants and hope he doesn't come back.
OH, and lets hope the owner of his used car doesn't get screwed either!
PS. this is my first SUPER angry reply on any post, in any forum, EVER!
sorry you feel that way brother. But at the end of the day its just cars. To degrade someone over cars is not very kind.
FWIW I did have an AEM on my nsx. Paid 1300 for it brand new. Also had one on my viper that was more than double that price. So I feel confidant that I made the right moves. But the engine was just never ment to be the 450 rwhp BBSC engine I envisioned. But please here me out. Even if I had hit 450 rwhp and everything ran great. My 2995 pound nsx was 3050 pounds with the supercharger ect.
My Viper is currently 3200 pounds and is haveing some more performance goodies installed for 500 plus rwhp in a few days.
Viper would still be faster. Supercharge the Viper and your talking 650-1000 rwhp depending on what you wanna do.
Just not a fair comparison. We are talking about a limited to 290 crank HP car VS a 8.3 liter 505 cubic inch MONSTER. People are doing heads and cams on vipers at 650 rwhp.
In retrospect. If I recall the built nsx engines were around 300 rwhp NA.
Its just not a fair comparison and was never ment to be.
I purchased them both because they were both special to me in their own ways. I paid 35K for my nsx back in 2008. Thats a high price for a 91 but it had what I was looking for. Trust me I really loved the car. Hopefully you will never have to let one of you babys go. But currently at 5 vehicles their was no way in hell I was gonna be paying regs for 6 every year. So my choice was made.
Good day Gentlemen and lets please not degrade ourselves to those of other forums. This is a classy place. Lets keep it that way and respect eachother
FWIW I did have an AEM on my nsx. Paid 1300 for it brand new. Also had one on my viper that was more than double that price. So I feel confidant that I made the right moves. But the engine was just never ment to be the 450 rwhp BBSC engine I envisioned. But please here me out. Even if I had hit 450 rwhp and everything ran great. My 2995 pound nsx was 3050 pounds with the supercharger ect.
My Viper is currently 3200 pounds and is haveing some more performance goodies installed for 500 plus rwhp in a few days.
Viper would still be faster. Supercharge the Viper and your talking 650-1000 rwhp depending on what you wanna do.
Just not a fair comparison. We are talking about a limited to 290 crank HP car VS a 8.3 liter 505 cubic inch MONSTER. People are doing heads and cams on vipers at 650 rwhp.
In retrospect. If I recall the built nsx engines were around 300 rwhp NA.
Its just not a fair comparison and was never ment to be.
I purchased them both because they were both special to me in their own ways. I paid 35K for my nsx back in 2008. Thats a high price for a 91 but it had what I was looking for. Trust me I really loved the car. Hopefully you will never have to let one of you babys go. But currently at 5 vehicles their was no way in hell I was gonna be paying regs for 6 every year. So my choice was made.
Good day Gentlemen and lets please not degrade ourselves to those of other forums. This is a classy place. Lets keep it that way and respect eachother
Well said. Good luck with whatever you decide to keep.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124796
This was a year after you were told about the issues with the splitsecond box, check the dates. Should I get the my boots or the ladder because the BS is getting deep.
Go back to wrecking your Vipers and collecting the insurance money. Good Luck your going to need it. Might not walk away from the next street race.
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From what I've read that was inferred, you've crashed a viper before?
338rwhp and 278rwtq to be exact.
Be careful with all of that crazy power. This is a pic of a guy that got "Red Mist" and frustrated b/c he couldn't make ground on a 270hp japanese import. Not saying that this will be you, but all of the power means nothing if you can't use it.
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